Author Topic: MechWarrior Online  (Read 191633 times)

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Offline Spoon

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But it's still nothing that they promised it would be.
And I fear its going to end before they get anywhere near that promised state because I think a lot of people have actually already stopped playing.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Al-Rik

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I started MWO recently because a Buddy of mine asked me to join him.

I'm a little bit disappointed by the game, especially by the Hardpoint System.
Replacing a 0,5 ton ( 1 critical slot ) Machine Gun with a 15 ton (10 critical slots) Gauss rifle ? Because they are both "Ballistic" ? that makes totally sense... no, not really.
Or replacing a 1 ton medium laser with a 7 ton PPC because they are both "Energy" ?
But replacing a PPC (7 tons, 3 critical slots) with an AC5 (8 tons, 4 critical slots) it's impossible because... Why the hell ?

That's not only without any sense, it promotes a certain kind of Mechbuilding.
The Thunderbolt has normally 3 medium lasers in the left torso, but in MWO the typical Thunderbolt will carry 3 PPCs or Large Lasers...

The game is also lacking some kind of basic coordination between the players.
While there is an interface for lance and company commander nobody seems to use it, not even I, because it#s really stupid to handle.
To set Waypoints for your lance you have to enter the 2D Map, and during that time your Mech doesn't move. I'm even not quite sure if your Lancemates get a acoustic message then you give out orders.

Battlefield 2142 did it much better seven years ago. Just aiming your crosshair at the HUD Icon of the controlpoint and pressing T + leftmouse sets an attack or defend order.
And each Squadmate was notified with "Attack Here" or "Defend Here" that you have set a new order.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 05:04:03 pm by Al-Rik »

 

Offline Dragon

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MW4 had something of a similar hardpoint system, with certain hardpoints being specifically missile, ballistic or energy, some being "direct fire" (ballistic or energy), some being "ammo consuming (missile or ballistic) and some "heat generating" (missile or energy), with some mechs (usually Clan) having "omni" hardpoints where you could stick anything you wanted. It makes sense that some mounts can only handle certain weapons. It handled it much better though, with each hardpoint having a size limit. So, you could stick a Small Laser in place of a PPC, but not the other way around, unless the 'mech had an odd design that mounted a Small Laser in a PPC-capable mount.
MWO system is somewhat of a hybrid between the MW2 (fairly similar to tabletop) and MW4 system, but it just ended up awkward, allowing such oddities as Gauss Rifles firing out of MG ports and Small Lasers swapped out for PPCs, and that's before Clans showed up.

 

Offline Scotty

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Technically speaking, MW4 didn't have anything but ballistic/energy/missile and omni hardpoints before MekTek got ahold of it.  All that stuff is "new" and totally did not ship with the retail game or any of the patches from the original producer.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Technically speaking, MW4 didn't have anything but ballistic/energy/missile and omni hardpoints before MekTek got ahold of it.  All that stuff is "new" and totally did not ship with the retail game or any of the patches from the original producer.
Except "all that stuff" in this case is just "direct-fire", "ammo-consuming", and "heat-generating"; not really the most major of changes MekTek made. :P
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<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
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<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

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<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

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* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Dragon

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Still handled better than MWO (also, I'm pretty sure retail, or at least original Mercs did have omni hardpoints).

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Still handled better than MWO (also, I'm pretty sure retail, or at least original Mercs did have omni hardpoints).

No, it's really not. It's just different. The objectives, and the outcomes, are pretty much the same.
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Offline Dragon

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Well, the outcomes are a lot different - you can't shove a PPC into a Small Laser slot, nor a Heavy Gauss into an MG port. You can in Online. And objectives? What are you talking about?

 

Offline The E

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NGTM-1R is referring to the intent the designers had when they set up the systems like this.
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I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Well, the outcomes are a lot different - you can't shove a PPC into a Small Laser slot, nor a Heavy Gauss into an MG port. You can in Online. And objectives? What are you talking about?

The idea behind any slot system is to stop me creating the four-CERPPC or four-CERLL or 6/8 MPL or 3/4 Gausszilla boat of doom and force me to adopt some kind of weapons variety.

The reality is this doesn't typically work as well as was intended, and you end up with a few boat-y designs dominating the game. In early MWO we had Gausscats and Streakcats. In MW4 Mercs we had The Terrible Hauptmann rolling with 3 CERPPC and a CGauss or Mad Cats with paired CERPPC and paired RAC2/RAC5 setups.

The MWO metagame has shifted without a clutch a few times as the ideal boaty weapon changed, but it's actually achieved a state of consistent variety by now, something I don't think Mektek actually managed.
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Offline Dragon

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To be fair, I've yet to see a BT game where "stack as many CERPPCs on it as you can" strategy wouldn't be not only viable, but rather good indeed. And it's like that on the tabletop, too, if Scotty's LP is of any indication. :) Gauss Rifles are pretty much the same, but they're weighty and don't have much ammo. It's also rather difficult to avoid "boats of doom" when the source material features more than a few examples of such (Supernova, for example, boasts 6 CERLLs in it's stock config, and even the "Gausszilla" is a perfectly valid Anihilator). I think that MW4 system makes more sense from technical standpoint. Afterall, a hardpoint that can take an MG could possibly fit an UAC/5, but a Gauss... less so.

 

Offline IronBeer

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It's also rather difficult to avoid "boats of doom" when the source material features more than a few examples of such (Supernova, for example, boasts 6 CERLLs in it's stock config, and even the "Gausszilla" is a perfectly valid Anihilator).
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Offline Dragon

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Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. Awesome is another stock PPC boat, especially the 9Q version with 4 PPCs (which you can swap for the Clan version if you have to access to it). Assault mechs lend themselves to this, but other weights also have examples (eg. Nova with 12 Medium Lasers).

 

Offline The E

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Quote
To be fair, I've yet to see a BT game where "stack as many CERPPCs on it as you can" strategy wouldn't be not only viable, but rather good indeed. And it's like that on the tabletop, too, if Scotty's LP is of any indication.

ahhhahahaha no

The Supernova generates 75 heat when jumping and alpha-striking, of which it can dissipate a grand total of 52, meaning that in a single strike, you go to 23 heat overflow, blowing past 3 shutdown overrides ( against 4, 6, and 8), incurring a movement penalty that will make the mech immobile even if it doesn't shut down, and granting a +3 modifier to attack roll target numbers in the next turn.

Energy boats all suffer from this issue (Unless you're explicitly building them not too, as in the case of the Hellstar, whose actual firepower is somewhat lackluster for a 95 ton assault mech).

Missile and Ballistic boats, while generally less prone to heat issues, are nevertheless at risk to stray critical hits killing ammo bins (One memorable match I took part in once was utterly dominated by someone in a Piranha running around critting things).

In the games, these designs work much better, because the games never seem to model the full heat model that the tabletop uses. In MW4, targeting penalties are represented by flickering the HUD a bit (Which is more an annoyance than anything), while ammo explosions simply do not happen.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
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I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Scotty

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You might notice that in my LP, that boating only works because I'm essentially boating an entire lance, not one 'Mech.  If the bot were any less criminially stupid, the first thing it would do is break out to stand-off range and pepper me with LRMs and AC/2s because I am completely ineffectual beyond PPC range, and way too slow to get in range against smaller targets.

In short, my LP boats because the AI is stupid, not because it works in the tabletop against real people.

 

Offline Dragon

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Yeah, I noticed we have no long range missile support at all. However, nowhere did I say that a PPC boat is an ultimate build like in MC1. It works pretty well, though, and I guess that if those were Clan ERs, they would be even more deadly.
The Supernova generates 75 heat when jumping and alpha-striking, of which it can dissipate a grand total of 52, meaning that in a single strike, you go to 23 heat overflow, blowing past 3 shutdown overrides ( against 4, 6, and 8), incurring a movement penalty that will make the mech immobile even if it doesn't shut down, and granting a +3 modifier to attack roll target numbers in the next turn.
Noone says you have to Alpha with it, firing, say, 4 CERLLs is still pretty devastating. Though I agree, that kind of defeats the point of mounting 6 CERLLs in first place. I wasn't saying it's a super-mech (though in MW4, if you fit it with 14 CERSPLs, it can be quite fun, if not the most effective), but merely pointing out the existence of stock boat designs in BT. Supernova overheats like crazy in MW4, too (at least the stock config). Oh, and as for ammo explosions, that's what CASE is for. If you're gonna make a missile boat, it's generally a good investment.

 

Offline Beskargam

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In MW4, targeting penalties are represented by flickering the HUD a bit (Which is more an annoyance than anything), while ammo explosions simply do not happen.

I seem to recall there being ammo 'splosions in MW2: mercenaries, though I could be mistaken. It has been awhile since I played it

 

Offline Dragon

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Retail MW2 had ammo explosions, but not from overheating, only from weapon fire. Haven't gotten to Mercs yet. Though TBH, MW2 isn't exactly a good example, it's building system was... far from perfect. I remember building a Hellbringer (Loki) with 4 CERPPCs and vestigal (no armor) arms, plus fairly decent engine and heatsinks. There's no way that would work in any other game. Even in MC1, they'd not fit onto Hellbringer (though something similar worked on a Nova Cat).

 

Offline The E

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Noone says you have to Alpha with it, firing, say, 4 CERLLs is still pretty devastating. Though I agree, that kind of defeats the point of mounting 6 CERLLs in first place. I wasn't saying it's a super-mech (though in MW4, if you fit it with 14 CERSPLs, it can be quite fun, if not the most effective), but merely pointing out the existence of stock boat designs in BT. Supernova overheats like crazy in MW4, too (at least the stock config). Oh, and as for ammo explosions, that's what CASE is for. If you're gonna make a missile boat, it's generally a good investment.

Even with CASE, an ammo explosion is usually equivalent to a mission kill, as you'll be losing the location and any attached to it (going outward). If you have the misfortune of mounting an XL engine and one of your side torsos blows up, it will even mean 2 (Clan) or 3 (IS) engine crits, meaning you'll be severely impaired.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Scotty

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Three engine crits kills 'Mechs, so that IS machine is going down on a CASEd ammo hit.

On the other hand, this nifty thing called CASE II is getting spread around in the 3100s, which makes ammo explosions only do a single point of internal structure damage.  It's probably the best thing ever, and one of the first absolutely better pieces of equipment to come out of the game in a long time.