Author Topic: Pondering about Freespace  (Read 7193 times)

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Offline Rodo

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Re: Pondering about Freespace

In Hammer and the Anvil, they are led to believe that they have already destroyed all the shield prototypes, and believe that the convoy which is actually carrying the shield convoy is just another convoy headed for Earth. However, once they learn the contents of the Cargoes, they actively seek to destroy them.


for that one you could also say that they were just attacking in force any and all convoys in transit from the station to the node, furthermore command assures you that the Shivans think they've already destroyed all the prototypes, which implies the shivans knew how many of those where developed! and that in fact they were all destroyed in early runs, I wonder now if the shivans had an spy infiltrated in the installation.. :nervous:
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Offline Snail

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
for that one you could also say that they were just attacking in force any and all convoys in transit from the station to the node, furthermore command assures you that the Shivans think they've already destroyed all the prototypes, which implies the shivans knew how many of those where developed! and that in fact they were all destroyed in early runs, I wonder now if the shivans had an spy infiltrated in the installation.. :nervous:
No, it's pretty obvious the Shivans were actively targeting the containers themselves, "Krishna wing is targetting the cargo!"

Note also:
Quote
The Shivans should think you are just another shipment headed for Beta Cygni. This is not the direct route to Earth, which should divert the Shivans from our true intent.

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
No, it's pretty obvious the Shivans were actively targeting the containers themselves, "Krishna wing is targetting the cargo!"

Yes, It's pretty obvious they are targeting the cargo you got that.

Note also:
Quote
The Shivans should think you are just another shipment headed for Beta Cygni. This is not the direct route to Earth, which should divert the Shivans from our true intent.

I could say plot hole there, Shivans weren't supposed to know where Earth was right?.. so either they KNEW where Earth was and they were stupid enough to not attack it right away or they didn't knew it at all... so why bothering sending the cargo the other way.?
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
FS1 has a lot of (minor) plot holes, yeah.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
Note also:
Quote
The Shivans should think you are just another shipment headed for Beta Cygni. This is not the direct route to Earth, which should divert the Shivans from our true intent.

I could say plot hole there, Shivans weren't supposed to know where Earth was right?.. so either they KNEW where Earth was and they were stupid enough to not attack it right away or they didn't knew it at all... so why bothering sending the cargo the other way.?
Not really a plot hole. If they go the direct route, then they have a much higher chance of the Shivans pursuing them all the way to Sol, and finding Earth. However, if they go the indirect route, they can shake off any pursuing Shivans on the way there and safely reach Earth without the Shivans finding Earth.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
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Offline Rodo

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
Not really a plot hole. If they go the direct route, then they have a much higher chance of the Shivans pursuing them all the way to Sol, and finding Earth. However, if they go the indirect route, they can shake off any pursuing Shivans on the way there and safely reach Earth without the Shivans finding Earth.

You are giving for granted that Terrans knew Shivans didn't know the location of Earth, maybe they did, maybe they were just guessing the shivans knew that.

Still, sending the prototypes the long way is not a wise decision, this only gives the Shivans more time to catch up IMO, yet again... the success of the strikes would depend on how many assets did the Shivans had on the direct and alternate route respectively.

When this kind of conversation pops up I always finish thinking if the GTI was aware or not of Shivan presence long LONG before the initial engagement, and what did they knew about them.
Damn partially released game  :p
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
The GTI certainly had already accessed shield systems before the Shivans were ever officially contacted. The MX-50 tech description makes reference to a "Ross 128 deflector array". Given the Shivans' caution over people stealing their tech, perhaps that's why Ross 128 was the first place attacked.

Also, a few command briefings do mention that the Lucifer didn't know where Earth was and that it had to search several star systems before being able to locate it. Also, Shivan presence in Terran systems during the first Act of FreeSpace 1 is actually surprisingly minimal. The Taranis appears to be the only large Shivan capital ship in the sector.


Evidence:

Quote
The cruiser Taranis is suspected to be the source of command for the Shivans in this sector.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 08:35:32 pm by Snail »

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
Could be like you say.. I always got surprised on how fast Terran command was able to deploy and apply shield technology, something felt incredibly wrong...

that and the appearance of the Banshee canon specifically to kill Shivan shields...
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Offline Ziame

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
 This "unknown background" seems cool and all but... aren't you just trying to justify inconsistencies?
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Offline Snail

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
aren't you just trying to justify inconsistencies?
And is there anything wrong with that?

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
This "unknown background" seems cool and all but... aren't you just trying to justify inconsistencies?

yes I am ^^
Can't help it, I always end up thinking what would have happened if.. or how did it happen-
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Offline Snail

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to clear up inconsistencies. Or else we'd have to go down Mobius' "Everything in FS1 never happened" retcon route, which I hate. :doubt:

 
Re: Pondering about Freespace
Has anyone of you asked himself ever why the shivans got beam tech at the same time as we did???
Lets forget about balance.

The shivans had subspace tech... well, over 5000 years ago when they kicked ancient asses.
Terrans have it since... I dont know, lets say 300 years.

then we faced the shivans the first time and the only beam weapons they had were lucifer ones.

Now think: with stolen tech from shivans -or not- we got beam tech for smaller ships within a few hundered years.
Shivans needed over 5000 years! ;7


 

Offline Ziame

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to clear up inconsistencies. Or else we'd have to go down Mobius' "Everything in FS1 never happened" retcon route, which I hate. :doubt:

Well nothing in FreeSpace ever happened, that's true. Tho i don't say that's bad, go ahead and make a campaign out of it, would be cool.
Rabbinic Judaism had a good start with the Old Testament but kinda missed the point about 2000 years ago

ALL HAIL HERRA
/fan of BlackHole

 

Offline stuart133

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
Has anyone of you asked himself ever why the shivans got beam tech at the same time as we did???
Lets forget about balance.

The shivans had subspace tech... well, over 5000 years ago when they kicked ancient asses.
Terrans have it since... I dont know, lets say 300 years.

then we faced the shivans the first time and the only beam weapons they had were lucifer ones.

Now think: with stolen tech from shivans -or not- we got beam tech for smaller ships within a few hundered years.
Shivans needed over 5000 years! ;7



The engine??

No but really, it could have something to do with the fact that there are two groups of Shivans, maybe. I know it sounds unlikely but there are certainly a large number of differences between the FS1 Shivans and the FS2 ones.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
Has anyone of you asked himself ever why the shivans got beam tech at the same time as we did???
Lets forget about balance.

The shivans had subspace tech... well, over 5000 years ago when they kicked ancient asses.
Terrans have it since... I dont know, lets say 300 years.

then we faced the shivans the first time and the only beam weapons they had were lucifer ones.

Now think: with stolen tech from shivans -or not- we got beam tech for smaller ships within a few hundered years.
Shivans needed over 5000 years! ;7
:doubt:

Let's not go down the stereotypical "Only Terrans are smart" route.

My personal theory is that there were two separate fleets.

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
yeah, two different fleets separated by a Knossos portal, build by the ancients and then deactivated because of the Shivan incursion, unfortunately they disactivated it too late as the Lucy and accompanying ships had already crossed the portal.
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
My own viewpoint is that the existence of the Knossos provides the explanation.  If one assumes that the Lucifer fleet in FS1 is the same fleet that destroyed the portion of the Ancient empire that corresponds to GTVA space as we know it, then one could easily see the Ancients shutting down the Gamma Draconis Knossos after they'd passed through, in a last-ditch effort to stem the tide.  Unfortunately for them, the Lucifer was still essentially invincible, so they were wiped out regardless.  The Lucifer fleet tried to return the way it had come, only to find the Knossos deactivated and their path blocked.  Presumably, they then decided to either go into a state of hibernation until otherwise instructed, just hang out in the raw fabric of subspace, or do whatever it is that Shivans do in their downtime.

Fast-forward 8000 years or so, and all of a sudden, the Shivans start picking up subspace signatures all over the place, from two rather pesky species that seem to have a beef with each other.  Maybe they decide that enough is enough after fourteen years of conflict, or maybe the GTI pokes its nose somewhere it shouldn't have, but either way, the Lucifer fleet finally wakes up and gets back in the business of annihilating entire species.  As effective as they are at doing so, however, they're still using 8000-year-old ships.  In the meantime, back in whatever mysterious regions of space beyond the Knossos portal they were occupying, the Shivans as a whole decided that the whole "beam cannon" thing they had implemented for the Lucifer was a pretty good idea, and set about sticking them on every capital ship in the fleet.  Fast-forward a bit more to FS2, and these up-gunned Shivans pour through the newly-opened portal, only to find that there were two pesky alien species on the other side who'd figured out how to use the same sort of weaponry.

(Lousy post snipers. :p)

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
If beam cannons and flak guns are the best the Shivans come up with in a time of 8,000 years, they must be pretty dumb.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Pondering about Freespace
Or not very interested in developing those areas. After all, they seem sufficient for the task at hand, do they not?
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