Author Topic: Shivan Fragment Theory  (Read 9438 times)

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Offline Abyss

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Shivan Fragment Theory
This is my own personal theory about the Shivans.
(NOTE: This should be in no way, considered to be cannon... err... canon)

Origin of the Shivans
Part 1: How do Shivans come into existence?
Shivans do not come into existence like like other beings, they are not "born". Shivans come into existence as fragments of subspace, created when subspace itself is shattered, or to be more specific, a section of subspace.

Part 2: How does subspace get shattered?
Subspace does not naturally shatter, however if a large amount of stress is placed on it, this can happen. Normal subspace travel may cause stress, however it is negligible, however if something goes deeper and tries to force open a subspace portal then the stress is greatly increased. Basically the reason subspace was shattered and the Shivans created was because of the Knossos and the stress it placed on subspace.

Part 3: What happens when subspace is shattered?
When subspace is shattered the fragments start to emit varying frequencies of quantum pulses (which I will now refer to as QPs) and of varying intensities, as the QPs are emitted they come into contact with other fragments, if the intensity of the QP is higher then the intensity of the QP the fragment is emitting then that fragment will start to change based on the QPs frequency and the size of the fragment, the very small ones become Shivans, with anything larger becoming one of the Shivan's ships, this is why there is a large diversity in Shivan ships, however, since the QPs the fragments can travel extremely far at higher intensities, and the fact that when a fragment transforms into something it releases a QP burst, there is some constancy among ships.

The First Terrans Shivan Invasion
Part 1: How did it start?
The first Shivans were created by the Ancients when they created the Knossos, after this happened they were overpowered and destroyed, after which the Shivan's traveled the galaxy until they found the Terrans and the Vasudans. Since Shivans are hostile by nature, they attacked. Basically, when we first fought the Shivans, we were just cleaning up after the Ancients.

Part 2: Why was this fleet smaller then the second one despite the Ancients using subspace for millions of years and being unable to kill the Shivans?

Remember that normal subspace travel only causes minimum stress on subspace. The problem comes from when the Knossos tries to force open a node, so traveling through a Knossos wont cause subspace to shatter, only its activation. Still, the Ancients probably activated multiple Knossoi, however, the reason that the first wave was so small, is because, shortly before the Ancients were eradicated, they closed the Knossos, hoping to keep the Shivans from eradicating other species, but there were still some on our side of the portal, that is wave we first fought.

The Second Shivan Invasion
Part 1: How did it start?
The second war with the Shivans was caused with the NTC Trinity activated the Knossos for a second time, causing a part of subspace to again be shattered and fragments to be created, in addition to that, there were also the Shivans that were trapped behind the Knossos by the Ancients to contend with.

Part 2: What is the Sathanas?
The Sathanas is basically a massive subspace fragment. Normally a fragment of this size wont become a ship because it emits a high intensity QP that cannot usually be overpowered by another one, however, this time it was and the Sathanas came into being.

Part 3: Why did the Shivans capture Bosch?
The Shivans did this because they wanted ETAK. From what we know, ETAK modulates QPs which, according to my theory, controls what forms subspace fragments take. However it goes farther then that, by controlling QPs you can also cause subspace to break down further, causing more fragments to be released. Due to this, the Shivans captured Bosch to gain control of ETAK to expand their forces.

Part 4: What are the Shivan Comm Nodes?
I don't know how they did it, they could have stolen ETAK from the Iceni, or maybe Bosch gave it to them, either willingly or after torture, but the Shivans got control of ETAK. The Comm Nodes work like ETAK, modulating QPs and are designed to do so in a manner that will cause subspace to break down, and more Shivans to come into existence.

Part 5: How did the Shivan's create the Comm Nodes so quickly after acquiring ETAK?
The reason they were able to make Comm Nodes so easily after acquiring ETAK was because of the nature of it. First, the Shivans used the technology on the Iceni to activate the Knossos from long range , then they used ETAK to fire a long range high intensity QP blast with the frequency to create the Comm Nodes. Since the range on ETAK is unknown this could be possible, but due the the fact that it was at range, the effect deteriorated and only 3 fully functioning Comm Nodes could be made.


Part 6: How did the Shivans get so many Sathanai?
When the Shivans acquired the ETAK technology they also acquired the knowledge of how to activate the Knossos, and with a few modifications, they did it in such away that many lager fragments were created. With this technology, the Shivans opened the 3rd portal (the 2nd was opened to make the Comm Nodes) and used the Comm Nodes to create high intensity QPs to allow the larger fragments to become Sathanai.

Part 7: Why blow up Capella?
After acquiring ETAK the Shivans outfitted a variant of it on the Sathanai (doing so was as easy as a slight change in the frequency of the QPs used to create the Sathanai). Then they headed to Capella with this army and used the modified Santhanai to blow up the Capella star in such away that it caused large damage to subspace and created many more Shivans, perhaps more then we could imagine. This action was taken even with the Comm Nodes under thier control because the Comm Nodes work gradually, whereas this could created billions or more Shivan's in only 72 hours.

Part 8: Why did some of the Sathanai enter subspace after triggering the supernova?
I can think of 2 different reasons for this. Either they thought they could "dodge" the explosion by entering subspace, or they were pulled into supspace against their will by some kind of force.

Aftermath
What happens next I do not know. Maybe the Shivans use the Comm Nodes to force open a node to GTVA space. Maybe they head to a new Galaxy  through the 3rd Portal and wipe out countless more species, or go around blowing up every star they can find until there are billions of Shivans. Maybe the GTVA builds a new Knossos and opens the node to Earth, only to watch as the Shivans created by this portal eradicate the GTVA from existence, or perhaps when the Lucifer exploded, it cause that part of subspace to shatter, and the Shivans brought into being from this have already brought the Earth to an end, or the battle could still be on going.

The End
I hope you like my theory, maybe it helped you come up with your own. Take what you like from this, I know I make a lot of assumptions, but this is what I have come up with. Please give your opinions on this. And if you have any questions I will do my best to answer them.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 03:26:52 pm by Abyss »

 

Offline Topgun

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
very interesting :yes:

 

Offline Lucika

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
A really interesting idea :)

I have a few things that I'd like to check before I'd make a major comment:
If subspace travel causes the shattering, then how come that the FS1 Shivan fleet was so small? I mean, the Ancients were travelling through subspace 8-10,000 years (I can't recall it) then it probably makes up a fleet huge as hell!
If not, how come the FS2 fleet was so big because of one Knossos? The Ancients surely had more AND note that according to the cutscenes, they were unable to kill any Shivans, thus that fleet doesn't actually a remnant as you might mean, but the total force indeed.
And how come that the Shivans were able to create the comm nodes that fast? There is only a short timespan since Bosch was abducted and what did they made id from? Do they have a way to affect what is created of the subspace shatter or what?
If ETAK was capable to create subspace shreds, then why did they blow up Capella?
Any ideas about the xenocide being of the Shivans apart 'hostile by nature'?

Apart these things I can't put my finger on yet I really like this theory :) even though I usually hate those that feature subspace-made Shivans.
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Offline Kie99

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
How would a natural phenomenon shattering create a technologically advanced race?
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Offline Madcat

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
I thought the Gamma Draconis nebula was created by a shivan incident similar to Capella...?

They would already have needed a fleet of Sathanai to create a supernova in Gamma Draconis, but according to your theory they only got the technology after the Trinity entered the nebula.

Please correct me if my statement above is wrong/not canon, right now I can't remember where I got that from.

 

Offline Lucika

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
I thought the Gamma Draconis nebula was created by a shivan incident similar to Capella...?

Well if I remember correctly, it WAS caused by a supernova but AFAIK we can't be totally sure that it was done by the Shivans.
HLP member 2008-2012 and Syrk:TUW project leader ~2010-2012

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
Shivans seem to have normal, physical bodies...so that theory about them forming from subspace pulses is...funny.

It's like a strong EM field creating an aircraft carrier + crew.
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Offline Abyss

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
A really interesting idea :)

I have a few things that I'd like to check before I'd make a major comment:
If subspace travel causes the shattering, then how come that the FS1 Shivan fleet was so small? I mean, the Ancients were travelling through subspace 8-10,000 years (I can't recall it) then it probably makes up a fleet huge as hell!
If not, how come the FS2 fleet was so big because of one Knossos? The Ancients surely had more AND note that according to the cutscenes, they were unable to kill any Shivans, thus that fleet doesn't actually a remnant as you might mean, but the total force indeed.
And how come that the Shivans were able to create the comm nodes that fast? There is only a short timespan since Bosch was abducted and what did they made id from? Do they have a way to affect what is created of the subspace shatter or what?
If ETAK was capable to create subspace shreds, then why did they blow up Capella?
Any ideas about the xenocide being of the Shivans apart 'hostile by nature'?

Apart these things I can't put my finger on yet I really like this theory :) even though I usually hate those that feature subspace-made Shivans.

Hmm... good points. Hmm... umm... ah... got it.

The remember, as I said, normal subspace travel only causes minimal damage to subspace, also its not traveling through a Knossos that causes the damage its the activating of it. The reason that the first wave was so small, is because, shortly before the Ancients were eradicated, they closed the Knossos, hoping to keep the Shivans from eradicating other species, but there were still some on our side of the portal, that is wave we first fought.

The reason the 2nd wave was larger is because, when we opened the portal, not only did we create new Shivans, we unleashed the ones that were trapped behind it before.

The reason they were able to make Comm Nodes so easily after acquiring ETAK was because of the nature of it. First, the Shivans used the technology on the Iceni to activate the Knossos from long range (I'll change the part in my theory that says it was already open), then they used ETAK to fire a long range high intensity QP blast with the frequency to create the Comm Nodes. Since the range on ETAK is unknown this could be possible, but due the the fact that it was at range, they effect deteriorated and only 3 fully functioning Comm Nodes could be made.

As for why they blew up Capella, even though they Comm Nodes can make subspace fragments, this is a gradual process, this may provide a continuous supply of Shivans, but what would you do, wait for many thousands of years for an army, or create billions of Shivans in only 72 hours?

As for the Shivans being xenocidal, I will have to think about that for a bit before coming up with an answer, though an idea is starting to form.

How would a natural phenomenon shattering create a technologically advanced race?

As I said, subspace does not normally shatter on its own.
I thought the Gamma Draconis nebula was created by a shivan incident similar to Capella...?

Well if I remember correctly, it WAS caused by a supernova but AFAIK we can't be totally sure that it was done by the Shivans.

That is correct, this theory assumes that the nebula on the other side of the Knossos is natural, and was in existence before the Knossos (otherwise the Knossos would have been blown to bits)

Shivans seem to have normal, physical bodies...so that theory about them forming from subspace pulses is...funny.

It's like a strong EM field creating an aircraft carrier + crew.

However, we understand how EM fields work (as a species, I personally have no clue how they work), however we really don't understand subspace, so it is possible.

(I have now updated my theory with this data)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 12:15:02 pm by Abyss »

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
That has to be the most original Shivan theory ive seen in a long time
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Offline Abyss

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Re: Shivan Fragment Theory
very interesting :yes:

That has to be the most original Shivan theory ive seen in a long time

Thank you very much you two.

 

Offline Kie99

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Quote
How would a natural phenomenon shattering create a technologically advanced race?

As I said, subspace does not normally shatter on its own.

It is unfathomably unlikely that artificially creating an aperture in subspace would generate intelligent life forms completely accidentally.  You might as well just say 'God did it'.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
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Offline Abyss

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Quote
How would a natural phenomenon shattering create a technologically advanced race?

As I said, subspace does not normally shatter on its own.

It is unfathomably unlikely that artificially creating an aperture in subspace would generate intelligent life forms completely accidentally.  You might as well just say 'God did it'.

Unfathomably unlikely != (does not equal) Impossible.

And besides this is only my theory, there are any number of possibilities, but when you think about it, all life has to start somewhere, it is could be possible that all life started from subspace.

 

Offline Snail

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Hmm. I like the idea.

But, just a thought, couldn't we also say that it wasn't the Ancients which created the Shivans, but some other subspace faring race that tried to enter subspace (who were then subsequently wiped out by the Shivans). Subsequent races who managed to use subspace faced the same fate. This meshes in with Bosch's "Cities of Troy" hypothesis...

It is unfathomably unlikely that artificially creating an aperture in subspace would generate intelligent life forms completely accidentally.  You might as well just say 'God did it'.
Same with anything creating intelligent life, really.

 

Offline Topgun

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perhaps these quantum thingamajigs are a form of anti-entropy? thus any matter it comes in contact with would become the most ordered form of matter: life, in this case shivan life.
a little silly I know, but it makes more sense if you think about it that way.

 

Offline Abyss

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Hmm. I like the idea.

But, just a thought, couldn't we also say that it wasn't the Ancients which created the Shivans, but some other subspace faring race that tried to enter subspace (who were then subsequently wiped out by the Shivans). Subsequent races who managed to use subspace faced the same fate. This meshes in with Bosch's "Cities of Troy" hypothesis...

(Anything I type in italics in this post should not be taken seriously)
Yes... Bosch is an all knowing God, all hail Bosch! (i've always wanted to say that)

Well that is possible as well, another race could have made technology that inadvertently or maybe even purposely shattered subspace, but I think it was the Ancients only for the reason that they had time to build the Knossos before they were killed off. Still, anything is possible.

 

Offline Kie99

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Unfathomably unlikely != (does not equal) Impossible.

And besides this is only my theory, there are any number of possibilities, but when you think about it, all life has to start somewhere, it is could be possible that all life started from subspace.

Yeah, it's not impossible that if somebody detonates a nuclear bomb some wreckage will come together to form a fully working aeroplane which flies off into the night.  It's about equally as likely as what you're positing here.


It is unfathomably unlikely that artificially creating an aperture in subspace would generate intelligent life forms completely accidentally.  You might as well just say 'God did it'.
Same with anything creating intelligent life, really.

It's not...natural selection and evolution are much more likely than life simply rising up out of some mysterious fragments of subspace because they follow logic and happen over a much longer time period.  Just because a theory is not impossible doesn't mean it is a good one.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
"Like I said, no hard feelings"

 

Offline Abyss

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Unfathomably unlikely != (does not equal) Impossible.

And besides this is only my theory, there are any number of possibilities, but when you think about it, all life has to start somewhere, it is could be possible that all life started from subspace.

Yeah, it's not impossible that if somebody detonates a nuclear bomb some wreckage will come together to form a fully working aeroplane which flies off into the night.  It's about equally as likely as what you're positing here.

Well a nuclear bomb is different then subspace.

It is unfathomably unlikely that artificially creating an aperture in subspace would generate intelligent life forms completely accidentally.  You might as well just say 'God did it'.
Same with anything creating intelligent life, really.

It's not...natural selection and evolution are much more likely than life simply rising up out of some mysterious fragments of subspace because they follow logic and happen over a much longer time period.  Just because a theory is not impossible doesn't mean it is a good one.
[/quote]

Well what if subspace happens to be alive, as in an organic substance, in that case it is possible that with exposure to certain factors (For example: QPs) that they could mutate into something else, like the Shivans, or their ships if they are also organic.

 

Offline Snail

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Unfathomably unlikely != (does not equal) Impossible.

And besides this is only my theory, there are any number of possibilities, but when you think about it, all life has to start somewhere, it is could be possible that all life started from subspace.

Yeah, it's not impossible that if somebody detonates a nuclear bomb some wreckage will come together to form a fully working aeroplane which flies off into the night.  It's about equally as likely as what you're positing here.
:rolleyes:

Do you realize what you said is practically identical to a creationist argument?

 

Well what if subspace happens to be alive, as in an organic substance, in that case it is possible that with exposure to certain factors (For example: QPs) that they could mutate into something else, like the Shivans, or their ships if they are also organic.

Like the cloverfield monster shedding its scales which become MORE monsters!

But in regards to there being less shivans in the first wave, Well weren't the ancients at war with the shivans for a long time before they got eradicated? If they were more widespread amongst the stars than the GTVA, they might have cut down on the number of shivans, and the first fleet is what is left of the aftermath. I wonder what shivans do in their spare time?

 

Offline Abyss

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I wonder what shivans do in their spare time?

The read these forums and laugh at our theories about them as "such a simple race could never understand our motives".