[General Battuta]

Actually homemade bombs are a pretty common way for kids to attack (or at least try to) their school.^{[citation needed]}

---------------------------------

A vice principal saw the student showing it to other students at school about 11:40 a.m. Friday and was concerned that it might be harmful, and San Diego police were notified.

That's the problem, right there in a nutshell.

From the viewpoint of the VP, it assumes either conspiracy or idiocy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks

I see quite a few bomb attempts in that list. And I'm almost sure that list isn't comprehensive.

The problem is the VP saw an item and didn't say "that can't be a bomb" and walked away?

Even if there are ten times as many attacks as listed there, the behavior is quite uncommon.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

What ever happened to the good old days when you actually had fund making fun little explosions as projects for science class?  

Oh and as far as the Gatorade bottle goes a little gas can go a long way if ti's under pressure and plastic bottles hold a lot of pressure.  Even filled with only compressed air they can make quite a ban and some send shards of plastic flying.  Don't believe me fill one with some chips of dry ice, seal it and wait (preferably at a good distance).

Guess we should ban all plastic containers from school now too just in case.......

[Blue Lion]

I think you may be confusing "kids who want to attack their school often use bombs" with "kids often attack schools with bombs"

If a kid decides to go all kill crazy, there are really only 3 ways to do it: shooting, stabbing, and bombing.

[esarai]

I have no qualms about this event.  Everyone involved acted as they are expected to in a situation like that, and no harm was done. 

The VP saw a suspect device and activated an emergency response.  Any teacher should do this.  I'd be extremely worried if they didn't.

The device was not harmless.  The student was let off, and given counseling for trauma incurred by the event.  While not necessary, it demonstrates heart in their police force. 

IMO, this was the best possible outcome for this situation. 

And the rest of the school got to leave early.

[General Battuta]

Wait, the device wasn't harmless?

[Bobboau]

what harm was it capable of doing? from the article I gathered it detected motion and nothing more.

[redsniper]

I don't like sacrificing freedom for security. I don't like letting the terrorists win. I don't like discouraging creativity. But I would like a school full of blown up little kids even less.

I know it's ****ty when little things like this end up causing what seem like huge overreactions, but sometimes you just can't take any chances. Better to err on the side of caution.

[Dilmah G]

Didn't the student tell the VP "It's just a motion sensor,"? What's wrong with the VP confiscating the "bomb", ('You can have this back at the end of the day,' ) Closing down a school over an eleven year old kid with a plastic bottle is plain ridiculous. And if this school encourages technological prowess or whatever, wouldn't someone on the staff have been able to tell it wasn't a bomb?

[Colonol Dekker]

How would the vp know what a motion sensor is, that's for science or electronic products teachers.
 
 
Oh and Kosh, i'd rather not get into a discussion of how 'complete' the imaginary explosive device was as it has no bearing on the end result or the motivation behind said actions.  Also who  would dismiss PLASTIC as a modern carriage medium?
 
;wtf;

[zookeeper]

The counselling isn't stated as being to stop the kid blowing up anything, it's more likely to calm everyone down after an potential wrongful arrest.

Yet that's a stupid way to try to calm everyone down. A simple admission from the that vice principal that what he presumably did was overreaction, pretty silly and that the kid didn't really do anything wrong would do the same thing, and would be a lot faster, cheaper and effective. No one needs counseling for a wrongful arrest like that unless the people responsible refuse to admit that it was in fact a wrongful arrest.

[Colonol Dekker]

They already did that.
 
AND THERE WAS NO ARREST!
 
Read. . . . Read read.

Wait, the device wasn't harmless?

I think there was a typo in that post

[castor]

After talking to the student, it was decided about 1 p.m. to evacuate the school as a precaution while the item was examined.

Empty half-liter Gatorade bottle? I could understand canceling a class, but uh..

[Colonol Dekker]

That's exactly the point i'm making.

I wouldn't have been empty. It would have had at least three large wire contacts and a small electronics package fixed to the base or inside somewhere.

I've actually looked for a clear image so i could show you what i mean, but i can only find a basic prefab compnent in situ, in the context that i worked with them.

http://www.nolandmines.com/minestype72ap.htm

It's better than nothing, but backs up the point that the only place i can find an image of the component is in a landmine. So A non-expert is right to be weary. 3rd pic down (the small white cylinder and bar contact) if you imagine the bottle as being empty with the bar most likely inside instead then you'd have a rough idea.
http://www.nolandmines.com/minestype72ap.htm

To the lamen teacher in stab-shoot-splode-town usa it would have been absolutely suspect.


I'm not saying it to be anti american, but let's face it. There's a history of violence.

I can't really see this going anywhere as it appeared to be a speculative / clarificative first post.

Let me get this straight, he built a cool project on a budget, and he is going to get counseling for it? That is absurd. It's truely a sad day when we start accusing our own elementry school students of being terrorists.......

Unless there's a real result kosh was after as his question was answered in the subject matter he quoted... i'm gonna ask Lady Command to step in.

[Kosh]

Unless there's a real result kosh was after as his question was answered in the subject matter he quoted... i'm gonna ask Lady Command to step in.

I don't see any need to lock it.

If I saw a kid with a device like that, I would not walk over and ask if there was any liquid in it.

Normally you can see if there is liquid in it.

Oh and Kosh, i'd rather not get into a discussion of how 'complete' the imaginary explosive device was as it has no bearing on the end result or the motivation behind said actions.  Also who  would dismiss PLASTIC as a modern carriage medium?

I wasn't dismissing plastic itself, I was dismissing small and empty mostly. Steel>plastic when it comes to holding compressed gasses of any kind. I also dismissed the idea that we should treat an 11 year old as a terrorist. Baghdad != a well off middle school in california.

I see quite a few bomb attempts in that list. And I'm almost sure that list isn't comprehensive.

Looking at the list there were 5-6 or so actual bomb attacks on schools in the US in the last 50 years, and half of them were in tandem with school shootings (like columbine). Of the foiled plots, only 2 of these involved bombs and also involved not only lots of bombs but one or more guns as well. Based on this, if a kid is going to make a bomb, likely it's either a big one or lots and lots of little ones combined with guns. I'm not seeing any precedent for a kid making one small bomb at all in the US. Odds are far more likely that you'll be shot or stabbed at school that blown to bits.

It's better than nothing, but backs up the point that the only place i can find an image of the component is in a landmine. So A non-expert is right to be weary. 3rd pic down (the small white cylinder and bar contact) if you imagine the bottle as being empty with the bar most likely inside instead then you'd have a rough idea.
http://www.nolandmines.com/minestype72ap.htm

That is a good point, but how easy is it to get that kind of solid explosive in the US? In all the school incidents in the US, I don't recall seeing one that involved second hand military grade munitions.........


EDIT: I'll even quote the two bomb related foiled plots in the US:

17-year-old Joshua Magee was arrested in the parking lot of Malcolm High School after a school staff member, who saw the youth drinking liquor and putting on a black overcoat, called police. A search of Magee's car produced a bolt-action rifle, 20 bombs and a note stating the he wanted to injure everyone at the school except for three friends. Magee, to whom school paid close attention after it was reported to faculty that he was experimenting with explosives at home, was charged with attempted murder.[410]

Jeremy Getman, 18, planned a school attack at Southside High School but it was foiled after students told a teacher that he was carrying weapons. He carried 14 pipe bombs, three smaller bombs, a propane tank, a sawed-off shotgun, and a .22 caliber pistol into the school by a duffel bag and also a book bag full of ammunition. On December 17, 2001, he was sentenced to 8 1/2 years.[409]

As for the ones that happened, there was a bombing in 1970 at a university, a bombing at a secondary school in san mateo (when they searched they found a bunch of other bombs he brought to school), columbine, a bombing at a hostage crisis in 1986 in wyoming, and a bombing in Bath, Michigan in 1927. That's it.

[Colonol Dekker]

The mine and its explosive content irellavant, I was trying to find a pic of what i believe the kid was truing to make. For all i know he could have been making an IR reflector or a remote influene gate.

I can't comment further on the potential mis-identification of the kids evice unless i see a picture of the bottle..

[Kosh]

The mine and its explosive content irellavant, I was trying to find a pic of what i believe the kid was truing to make. For all i know he could have been making an IR reflector or a remote influene gate.

I can't comment further on the potential mis-identification of the kids evice unless i see a picture of the bottle..

Explosives do matter, because in the school bombings I've read about none of them used military grade, all of it was homemade, cobbled together from whatever stuff they could get at their homes. The point is out and out school bombings (not involving guns) are extremely rare, with only 4 happening in the past hundred years.

[BloodEagle]

Actually homemade bombs are a pretty common way for kids to attack (or at least try to) their school.^{[citation needed]}

---------------------------------

A vice principal saw the student showing it to other students at school about 11:40 a.m. Friday and was concerned that it might be harmful, and San Diego police were notified.

That's the problem, right there in a nutshell.

From the viewpoint of the VP, it assumes either conspiracy or idiocy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks

I see quite a few bomb attempts in that list. And I'm almost sure that list isn't comprehensive.

I notice that most of the younger age group listed tends to use firearms or knives.

The problem is the VP saw an item and didn't say "that can't be a bomb" and walked away?

I'd like to schedule an appointment with you, if you have an opening. You see, one of my fillings came out.

[Colonol Dekker]

@ Kosh

So you're saying because people are security concious, they should stop taking precautions? You realise that that will affect the numbers right?



Anyway, explosives .....you don't need to make a high yield military grade one to do damage.
I'm pretty much done on the subject as i't a bit close to my heart.

But for the interested parties i'll leave this nugget....

ANFO is a high yield explosive that you can make with fertiliser and oil. I'm not sayoing how it's made or anything. But the components aren't restricted in the slightest and for thirty quids worth you could take out small supermarket. It'd probably fit in a barrel.

An average 2 litre bottle could blow the back half of a large bus off.

[Kosh]

So you're saying because people are security concious, they should stop taking precautions? You realise that that will affect the numbers right?

No, but the "security conciousness" that we have now is insane. 30 years ago would this incident have even happened? There's so much fear in america, and an increasing amount of it is being directed at our children. When we've become afraid of our own shadows, does that mean that we've gone too far?

ANFO is a high yield explosive that you can make with fertiliser and oil. I'm not sayoing how it's made or anything. But the components aren't restricted in the slightest and for thirty quids worth you could take out small supermarket. It'd probably fit in a barrel.

An average 2 litre bottle could blow the back half of a large bus off.

Yeah, I have no doubt that stuff is powerful, but in an appearently empty half liter bottle, then what? If you put fertilizer and oil in a plastic bottle, couldn't you tell?

[Colonol Dekker]

afraid of shadows, gone too far..

Too far? Frankly,

Yes.

In this case, no... as all proper measures were taken during the investigations. I think a MAST was a bit much but it is due process as far as the police side goes.

couldn't you tell

I can tell, i''ve got history in the field.

If you put fertilizer and oil in a plastic bottle

And this is why people are prone to reactions based on over-simplification, there is a whole process involved requiring several stages of pre-preeration before they even meet each other.

I was mentioning ANFO in the first place because you asked how kids can get military grade explosives after i posted a picture of a trembler switch inside an unrelated mine.

I never said or implied it was in the bottle.

Did the teacher do the right thing? Absolutely.
Did anyone get in trouble for this? No.
Are the police offering "after care" yes.
Is it mandatory, it doesn't say....Although i'd wager not.

* Colonol Dekker is off to the gym.