[Blue Lion]

Sure, but that doesn't connect to the original scenario at play here for me.

Nothing you're saying is necessarily untrue, but it does not connect to a kid showing off his motion detector.

It doesn't matter. Kosh was stating that bomb attacks often come with guns. Which is true. Kids want to get as many as they can.

But not seeing a gun doesn't just make it go away. If the item looks like a bomb, it looks like a bomb.

[General Battuta]

Again, I'm going to say, if you see a kid showing off an unknown electronic device to lots of friends at a technical school, and your first thought is it is a bomb, my first action should be to call in the police, then you're in a very scared place, and one that is not mathematically justifiable.

You could argue that it's the correct decision. But for the police to then go even further is just absurd.

[Colonol Dekker]

I want to start seeing some compromise here on all sides before it gets heated.
 

[Blue Lion]

Again, I'm going to say, if you see a kid showing off an unknown electronic device to lots of friends at a technical school, and your first thought is it is a bomb, my first action should be to call in the police, then you're in a very scared place, and one that is not mathematically justifiable.

You could argue that it's the correct decision. But for the police to then go even further is just absurd.

There are two different parts to this, and I'm only arguing one.

If someone sees an object they think might be a bomb, then yea, they should go tell someone who will probably call the cops. And for living in a scary place? Kids use bombs, that's what all the quotes are for.

Do they use bombs all the time? No. Is every school going to be hit with a bomb? No. I could even fathom that there have been more bombings than kids bringing in their homemade motion detectors but that's all speculation.

School safety does not work like "If you see something you think might be a bomb, don't worry, it's probably not."

Again, there is a difference between "I don't know what that is" and "that looks like a bomb"

[Blue Lion]

I want to start seeing some compromise here on all sides before it gets heated.
 

Oh it's not heated. I'm not anyways.

[SpardaSon21]

What kid goes around showing off a bomb to his friends?  Kinda ruins the whole "hidden" aspect that makes a bombing successful.

[Blue Lion]

What kid goes around showing off a bomb to his friends?  Kinda ruins the whole "hidden" aspect that makes a bombing successful.

That's actually how most plots get foiled because kids aren't hardened criminals.

[Rian]

As I see it, this discussion is getting too hung up on how people should react upon seeing an object that they believe to be a bomb. There are a range of possible responses in this scenario, and which response is appropriate will probably depend on the context.

More relevant to this particular scenario, however, is the problem of people who think that an object looks like a bomb when everything they know about bombs comes from Hollywood thrillers. You can have as many blinky lights and wires as you want, but if an object doesn’t contain any volatile chemicals it is not a bomb.

Now, the question in my mind is how we can educate people to distinguish between benign homemade electronics and dangerous explosives. If basic electronics was taught in more science classes, I’m guessing we wouldn’t have this problem.

[Blue Lion]

As I see it, this discussion is getting too hung up on how people should react upon seeing an object that they believe to be a bomb. There are a range of possible responses in this scenario, and which response is appropriate will probably depend on the context.

More relevant to this particular scenario, however, is the problem of people who think that an object looks like a bomb when everything they know about bombs comes from Hollywood thrillers. You can have as many blinky lights and wires as you want, but if an object doesn’t contain any volatile chemicals it is not a bomb.

Now, the question in my mind is how we can educate people to distinguish between benign homemade electronics and dangerous explosives. If basic electronics was taught in more science classes, I’m guessing we wouldn’t have this problem.

Absolutely true. Most bombs don't have flashy timers or the like.

[Colonol Dekker]

This is my forte' but I don't like talking about it.
 
I am conflicted.
I could school the crap out of anyone on this forum about it but i'm above pleasing my ego.
 
 
So i'm just going to ask that people stop with the 'who knows most about explosives' tangent before it begins. That was discussed earlier and cyclic threads are doomed.

[Kosh]

"Oh my god is that a bomb? Wait, I don't see a gun. He must be cool."

No, but if you don't see a gun it drasticly lowers the probability it actually is a bomb. Most of those attacks involved the student actually shooting people, such as columbine.

[Blue Lion]

"Oh my god is that a bomb? Wait, I don't see a gun. He must be cool."

No, but if you don't see a gun it drasticly lowers the probability it actually is a bomb. Most of those attacks involved the student actually shooting people, such as columbine.

That is correct, but it doesn't eliminate it. As a teacher or staff member, if you see something you think could be a bomb, you're pretty much got to tell someone. You can't make that distinction. Usually the police do that.

[General Battuta]

So we're now in a place where a child cannot bring an electronic device to school without the risk of it being determined a bomb by someone who is not allowed to simply ask them.

Talk about a siege mentality.

[Thaeris]

More like an absence of mentality...

 

[Blue Lion]

So we're now in a place where a child cannot bring an electronic device to school without the risk of it being determined a bomb by someone who is not allowed to simply ask them.

Talk about a siege mentality.

A gameboy is an electronic device, so is a cellphone. Neither of these will get the bomb squad called in.

Basing it purely off the description I've seen here, we're talking about a enclosed object with wires and electronics on it. How else would you describe a homemade bomb?

That's what I'm saying. Lots of things that aren't bombs can look like bombs. Untrained people like teachers, janitors, cafeteria workers can't tell the difference between what is and is not a bomb. So school policy is to call the cops because they would rather call them in 100 times on something that isn't a bomb than let it go through once because people didn't want to make a scene.

[General Battuta]

Yes, and I think that's problematic.

Bombs are scary, school bombings seem frightening, but the fact is they're so incredibly rare as to essentially be a non-issue.

[Kosh]

"Oh my god is that a bomb? Wait, I don't see a gun. He must be cool."

No, but if you don't see a gun it drasticly lowers the probability it actually is a bomb. Most of those attacks involved the student actually shooting people, such as columbine.

That is correct, but it doesn't eliminate it. As a teacher or staff member, if you see something you think could be a bomb, you're pretty much got to tell someone. You can't make that distinction. Usually the police do that.

You can never completely eliminate anything, but the odds of it being a bomb at a technology orientated school are extremely low, it was far far more likely to be some electronics gizmo. You're also far more likely to gety hit by a car then get blown up by a bomb at a school like this, does that mean we should ban kids from going outside?

Basing it purely off the description I've seen here, we're talking about a enclosed object with wires and electronics on it. How else would you describe a homemade bomb?

That also describes any number of things. In my high school electronics class we built any number of enclosed objects with cool displays and what not, in any one of those (especially the strobe light) there could have been concealed explosives since the actual electronics didn't normally take up much space compared to the actual volume of the black box it was in.

[Blue Lion]

Yes, and I think that's problematic.

Bombs are scary, school bombings seem frightening, but the fact is they're so incredibly rare as to essentially be a non-issue.

I agree. But as an untrained person, you can't know if this is the one out of 13.6 million or whatever it was. Believe me, if it is the one, parents would not want to hear "what were the odds?"


Again, just reiterating, the item and how it was described sounds to me like it was as close to "looks like a bomb" as you could probably get without it being an actual bomb.

[General Battuta]

There was nothing inside it. It was a bunch of wires. The guy was holding it plain sight, showing it to his classmates.

It did not look like a bomb.

[Blue Lion]

"Oh my god is that a bomb? Wait, I don't see a gun. He must be cool."

No, but if you don't see a gun it drasticly lowers the probability it actually is a bomb. Most of those attacks involved the student actually shooting people, such as columbine.

That is correct, but it doesn't eliminate it. As a teacher or staff member, if you see something you think could be a bomb, you're pretty much got to tell someone. You can't make that distinction. Usually the police do that.

You can never completely eliminate anything, but the odds of it being a bomb at a technology orientated school are extremely low, it was far far more likely to be some electronics gizmo. You're also far more likely to gety hit by a car then get blown up by a bomb at a school like this, does that mean we should ban kids from going outside?

I am not disagreeing with this point, so I'm kinda confused as to why people keep bringing it up. Yes, the odds of a student bringing a bomb into a school are amazingly low. But teachers are other people don't get to make the call on if it's the real one. You're right, not calling the cops means all those false alarms never happen but it means the few times it IS a bomb, nothing happens. Because they can't tell the difference.

That also describes any number of things. In my high school electronics class we built any number of enclosed objects with cool displays and what not, in any one of those (especially the strobe light) there could have been concealed explosives since the actual electronics didn't normally take up much space compared to the actual volume of the black box it was in.

So what's the alternative? How do untrained people tell what is and is not a real bomb?