Author Topic: FSF: Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER  (Read 48055 times)

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Offline Inquisitor

Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER
Everything is in the tree?

Gonna have to break my books out again. But dynamic objects like players or spawned vehicles need to store SOMETHING about collision that the C++ reads, or you define it in some kind of scripting engine that brokers the information to C++.

If you store "everything" in the BSP, that means that to add a new ship, you need to rebuild the tree, n'est pas? Maybe you rebuild the tree on the fly, but you still need to have some pointers about the individual objects. Otherwise you have a very static game engine, no? Hard to mod, hard to extend.

Just saying it's in the BSP doesn't actually tell me much ;)

Lots of goodies on Gamasutra, BTW, on BSP, collision, AI, etc. If you're not going to look at an existing engine to help deal with this stuff, you need to at least look at the examples they provide there. Garagegames has a crap load of resources on this as well.
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Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
i'll be basing the new POF loader off my current code for POF 2117 - so it'll check the version and an older POF [versions 2116 and 2117] will automatically be updated to 3000's format

the biggest change between POFver <= 2117 and POF version 3000 will probably be an 3D data format change


btw, do you plan a new release of PCS for the regular FS2? some more features could be handfull.

Otherwise, for the collision stuff, I sure hope they'll stay like in FS2, using the main mesh, coz making a collision mesh is not worth the CPU resource gain, and I'd be too lazy to make yet one another model just for that... plus I'm already pissed off not being allowsed to fly into the Orion hangar, so with that... d'uh.
I can understand that in Iwar2 coz you can't really fly that close to a ship if you don't want to die, but in a FS kind of game, please, just no.
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline Kazan

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it's in the _ships_ BSP/IDTA

read the specs at dnet

and i know from expirience that the SortNorms and BoundBoxes in the BSP/IDTA tree do the collision
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Offline Inquisitor

Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER
Bad me for not reading the spec :)

Well, the tree doesn't "do" the collision, but I see your point.

Ok, next subject :)
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Offline Anubis

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well i belive that this thing is not gooing to be easy to "build",but enywhay i dot ow enithing about programing but i can prowide  anew campaig story if you want just let me know.
Shivans may be the great distroyers of civilizations but the GTVA  will be the destroyers of the shivans.
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"Shivans here I come..."(angry)

 
Here comes the Devil...(and maybe Saint)
Greetings, those of you who know me, know that I am the design Lead for Descent IV as well as President and Owner of Orbital Design Studios.

There is a LOT of enthusiasm on this board for FS3.  I only managed to get through the first _7_ pages of this thread before giving up to post.  :P  This is good, but there are several issues to address BEFORE STARTING, that I may be able to help you with.


1.  The copyright issue.  This is a major problem for both FS3 AND D4.  Interplay is far from dead in fact, thanks to Titus, it's nearly revitialized and it's debts are lower than before even Descent II's production.  They DO CARE about the FreeSpace Copyrights, but the problem isn't there...

The problem is that both Volition and Interplay own part of FreeSpace.  Much simpler scenario for you then D4, I envy you.  I have to deal with Outrage, Volition, Parallax and Interplay owning parts of Descent.  

The OTHER problem you have, is that the Space Sim/shooter market is in a slump.  I myself asked Interplay about FS3, they said not now.  

You have ONLY 2 solutions:
Make a FS clone and have totally different storyline, ships, etc...
OR, get it done and have Interplay publish it, provided Volition gives their ok..in writing.


Possible Solution, and best solution I think, is to take advantage of Orbital's 8 month old management base, and come onboard as the FS3 project.  We're already neck deep in the CS engine, capable of editing it to accept any file format we choose, even new ones we design.  We have a large group of Descent fans (many Descent fans were FS fans too, I was one of them...) that work here, and the clentcher:  D4 is designed to be ubermoddable.  Tacking FS3 onto D4 in the same box as a "mod" (not really), would get it out the door, avert copyright issues (because if D4 can clear the legal problems it has, I don't think I'd have any problems at all clearing them for FS3), avert the problem with the slump in the space shooter market, and help D4 sell more copies, generating more income for Orbital, and helping to further it's continued existance.


2.  This is indeed a huge project you wish to undertake.  We can help you, but only if you're willing to do all of what it entails.  I admit that I myself figured D4 would be easy, slap a few models around, write up a little new code and wizzbang it would be done....6 months later I look back and laugh at my own stupidity.  What the hell was I thinking?  :P  It's now almost a year along, I'm a lot smarter than I was, I've learned a lot, as has the rest of the team.  


In closing, I think we have a lot we can offer you, if you're interested.  Send me an email and we'll talk about it, Kazan.   [email protected]  



--Orbital Design Studios--
For gamers, by gamers.  No compromise.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2002, 06:00:41 am by 706 »
--Valin Halcyon
Descent IV Design Lead
President, Orbital Design Studios
www.descent4.net

 

Offline Sandwich

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Hey Valin:

:) ;7 :p Welcome to the HLPBB!!!! :cool: :D ;)

I'll leave the topic-derailing shotgun/emergency exits ramble alone for now. :D

One clarification: this ain't FS3. There is no story being built towards, which is a prime factor in the FS series. It is a user-made engine, 100% compatabile with FS2 data files as well as with enhancements to them, that will serve as a frame to which others can tack campaigns, ships, etc.

With that out of the way, thanks for the input - I hope for the best!
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Setekh

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Valin, welcome to HLP. It's a real honour to have you here. :)

I must say, this is very volatile ground at the moment. There's a lot to consider, especially with the relationship between THQ, Interplay and Volition being... well, unsure.

Hopefully this will come to fruition. It'd be great to have you around, Valin. Enojy your stay. :nod:
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline Kazan

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Valin that actually sounds very good, and it gives us Programmer Concentrate :D

but: do you have Linux Support native?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2002, 07:12:13 am by 30 »
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Offline wEvil

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Hey Valin :)

(that guys' my boss :) )

 

Offline Inquisitor

Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER
Greetings Valin.
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Offline Turnsky

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tacking on fs2 campaigns to a user-made engine? sounds great, so you could say, make an enhanced version of Warzone to tie in with the enhanced capabilities of this engine?
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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
tacking on fs2 campaigns to a user-made engine? sounds great, so you could say, make an enhanced version of Warzone to tie in with the enhanced capabilities of this engine?


That's the general idea, yup. :)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Turnsky

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Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER
sweet :cool:
   //Warning\\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
sweet :cool:


Yup. I love that word. So expressive, in such a small space... *sigh* lol
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Inquisitor

Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER
Well, using an existing engine is something Kazan seems to be against.

CS is one of the choices that I suggested, Kaz said he looked at it. TQ is cheap, but it does cost 100 per programmer, usually a non-starter for projects like this. They also have some licensing issues.

One careful thing to note: Descent 4 is not going to be free, They plan on CD and DVD distribution thru a real publisher. That was NOT my impression from the "project owner" of the intent of this project. The commercial aspect means that they have to wrestle to (C) demon alot earlier.
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Offline Stryke 9

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Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER
So... we're simply creating another game engine from scratch, and not taking time to reverse engineer existing ones, yes? Please?

If the answer is no, gimme a minute to track dowm the .wd extractor forum on NEWST. It's been more than a year, and they have yet to make significant progress in figuring out how these things were put together...

 

Offline Anaz

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IMHO its better to build your own because the person who built it knows exactly where everything is, and how it does what. Plus, no licencing issues with the engine will ever come up.
Arrr. I'm a pirate.

AotD, DatDB, TVWP, LM. Ph34r.

You WILL go to warpstorm...

 

Offline Inquisitor

Programers Unite: FreeSpace FOREVER
Using a well documented engine actually cuts dev time.

Making one from scratch is not an easy task. Doable, obviously, just time consuming.
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Offline Rake

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Quote
Originally posted by Inquisitor
That was NOT my impression from the "project owner" of the intent of this project. The commercial aspect means that they have to wrestle to (C) demon alot earlier.


It stopped being free when it stopped being a TC of Descent 3. Now it's an all out game, and as such, the circumstances have changed. Paying people to work full time on D4 is the only real way to get it moving towards completion, and so, selling it in stores is the obvious requirement.

The copyright problems weren't an issue until very recently, and weren't at all involved in our deciding to go for it all.

Anyway, I apologize to Valin for steering him over here, thought you guys were making FS3.

/me immediately loses interest in project.