[el_magnifico]

Theory D: This is really radical, but perhaps the Shivan are not capable of reproducing intelligent life. So they capture someone like Bosch and intend to somehow change him into the Lucifier. Or maybe, the Lucifier was created by the Shivan's creator, but the Shivans themselves, are not capable of recreating it. So they need Bosch's assistance in this.

Well, with the shivans, everything is possible. Maybe the Queen/Lucifer was the only way of producing more Shivans. Maybe ETAK was accidentally transmitting the Shivan's mating call. Maybe they took Bosch with them, who knows where, and he is now the happy girlfriend of the Shivan 3rd battlegroup. Who knows...

[High Max]

Theory D: This is really radical, but perhaps the Shivan are not capable of reproducing intelligent life. So they capture someone like Bosch and intend to somehow change him into the Lucifier. Or maybe, the Lucifier was created by the Shivan's creator, but the Shivans themselves, are not capable of recreating it. So they need Bosch's assistance in this.

Well, with the shivans, everything is possible.

If that was true, then the Shivans could make anything happen with a thought or make their ships travel the speed of light (laws of physics prevent that) instead of a mere 150m/s or less in real space, or make their subspace essense souls possess a Terran and say, 'we are Shivan (whatever they are really called), resistance is futile'. They can't even eat food like we do and enjoy a nice meal.

Wait... Oh, I guess not everything is possible with Shivans . Not even close. Checkmated...

[TrashMan]

Turning Bosh into the Lucifer?

The Lucifer is a 2.6km long, metal starship, Bosch is a ~2m tall meatbag.

[el_magnifico]

Theory D: This is really radical, but perhaps the Shivan are not capable of reproducing intelligent life. So they capture someone like Bosch and intend to somehow change him into the Lucifier. Or maybe, the Lucifier was created by the Shivan's creator, but the Shivans themselves, are not capable of recreating it. So they need Bosch's assistance in this.

Well, with the shivans, everything is possible.

If that was true, then the Shivans could make anything happen with a thought or make their ships travel the speed of light (laws of physics prevent that) instead of a mere 150m/s or less in real space, or make their subspace essense souls possess a Terran and say, 'we are Shivan (whatever they are really called), resistance is futile'. They can't even eat food like we do and enjoy a nice meal.

Wait... Oh, I guess not everything is possible with Shivans . Not even close. Checkmated...

Uh, it was a joke.

Nevermind, I guess it wasn't funny.

[High Max]

Well, I think what I said was funny. I just had to say something. I was purposely taking it literally even though I knew it wasn't literal when he said 'everything' and he really meant that we don't know all that they can do and so many things are possible.

[NGTM-1R]

The Lucifer is a 2.6km long, metal starship, Bosch is a ~2m tall meatbag.

Weren't you just arguing the Shivans have vast resources?

[TrashMan]

Unless they are also master of magic.....

Mayhaps they can turn a pumpkin into a Sathanas?

[NGTM-1R]

Since we don't know anything, sky's the limit.

[Lucika]

Since we don't know anything, sky's the limit.

Stop quoting Dragon!

[High Max]

Maybe they are the almighty creator of subspace.

Edit: I notice that The E always seems to come and read my posts first and instantly when I post.

[Insomniac34]

I always liked the whole "Shivans are the universe's immune system" theory. Humans, like on current day Earth, use up finite resources and destroy their environment, and perhaps the Shivans are the natural response to any race that gets too powerful and endangers the universe itself.

[High Max]

The Shivans do seem to be a type 3 civilization while the GTVA seems between type 1 and 2. We are type 0 right now.

Perhaps the Shivans destroy any civilization that can use subspace for travel. I believe they destroy these civilizations because if a civilization has the ability to travel through subspace, then if left unchecked, they might become powerful enough to one day pose a serious threat to the Shivans themselves.

[Bob-san]

I always liked the whole "Shivans are the universe's immune system" theory. Humans, like on current day Earth, use up finite resources and destroy their environment, and perhaps the Shivans are the natural response to any race that gets too powerful and endangers the universe itself.

With so many galaxies spread so far, that's hard to believe.

There are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 x 10¹¹) galaxies in the observable universe. Most galaxies are 1,000 to 100,000 parsecs in diameter and are usually separated by distances on the order of millions of parsecs (or megaparsecs). Intergalactic space (the space between galaxies) is filled with a tenuous gas of an average density less than one atom per cubic meter. The majority of galaxies are organized into a hierarchy of associations called clusters, which, in turn, can form larger groups called superclusters. These larger structures are generally arranged into sheets and filaments, which surround immense voids in the universe.

Although it is not yet well understood, dark matter appears to account for around 90% of the mass of most galaxies. Observational data suggests that supermassive black holes may exist at the center of many, if not all, galaxies. They are proposed to be the primary cause of active galactic nuclei found at the core of some galaxies. The Milky Way galaxy appears to harbor at least one such object within its nucleus.

At least 26 galaxies per human. Imagine cataloging and then traversing THAT!

[High Max]

There are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 × 1011)

At first I thought you meant 1,011 and it didn't make sense, but you actually meant 10^11. To the power of 11. Probably should use ^ or say 'to the power of'.

[General Battuta]

I always liked the whole "Shivans are the universe's immune system" theory. Humans, like on current day Earth, use up finite resources and destroy their environment, and perhaps the Shivans are the natural response to any race that gets too powerful and endangers the universe itself.

With so many galaxies spread so far, that's hard to believe.

There are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 × 1011) galaxies in the observable universe. Most galaxies are 1,000 to 100,000 parsecs in diameter and are usually separated by distances on the order of millions of parsecs (or megaparsecs). Intergalactic space (the space between galaxies) is filled with a tenuous gas of an average density less than one atom per cubic meter. The majority of galaxies are organized into a hierarchy of associations called clusters, which, in turn, can form larger groups called superclusters. These larger structures are generally arranged into sheets and filaments, which surround immense voids in the universe.

Although it is not yet well understood, dark matter appears to account for around 90% of the mass of most galaxies. Observational data suggests that supermassive black holes may exist at the center of many, if not all, galaxies. They are proposed to be the primary cause of active galactic nuclei found at the core of some galaxies. The Milky Way galaxy appears to harbor at least one such object within its nucleus.

At least 26 galaxies per human. Imagine cataloging and then traversing THAT!

Assuming intergalactic subspace nodes, a single species could colonize every one of those galaxies within a reasonable timespan.

[IronBeer]

Well, before running into resistance.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, maybe. You'd do it with von Neumann probes. They might produce Saberhagen berserker variants.

With that kind of overwhelming advantage, resistance might not be meaningful, unless it was another civilization with the same plan.

[The E]

Honestly? If you meet a race that can traverse galaxies, chances are that laying down and being very unthreatening would probably be the best idea.

See also: Xeelee and Culture.

[DOCTOR DOOM!!!]

First post!  However, Ive been a fan of freespace for years, and have been browsing these forums as a GUEST for about a year or more and there's something that always bothered me!  That is why didn't the GTVA just pop the node to Gamma Drax upon discovering the second Sathanas?!  They seem to have more than enough time to do so!  This would have saved Capella (a heavily populated and economically valuable system) and resources used to evacuate Capella as well as having to pop 2 nodes instead of one!  Gamma Drax has no planets, no population and no resources to the GTVA so pop the Capella-Gamma Drax node and you cut losses exponentially!  Losing Capella has probably set the GTVA back economically by at least a decade if not more!

[General Battuta]

It's a fair question, but I believe that by the time the meson bombs could have been set up and deployed in their destroyer hosts, the Shivans had already overrun the node.