[QuantumDelta]

That said.
the SC franchise is one of /those/ games where it is all about the gameplay and not so much the storyline.
If you have a different opinion unfortunately, you'll have to deal with the horde of steaming Korean hardcore skrimmers, and their fans, and their TV franchises, and their competitive-gaming scene.

This claim doesn't hold up because the original had a passable-to-excellent storyline and character writing.

The second one doesn't.

I disagree on your first point entirely

[Scotty]

see this is whats killing the pc games industry. i dont need some internet server monitoring my gameplay. i dont want them looking for any reason to void my license so i have to buy another copy. then some years down the line, when they shut down the servers, is the game still gonna work? i dont like this, i dont like this at all.

Ummm, Battle.net probably isn't going to go down unless your nuclear apocalypse hits first.  SC1 is still up and running, 12 years later, and it will be there for the people who haven't bought SCII for a long time.

Hell, it still supports WarCraft II to the best of my knowledge.

Well, unfortunately I'd go as far as to say that those who love SC1 are those who play it in multi. SC1 wasn't exactly top class for single-player experience, and SC2 is even less. Though for multi, SC2 should be quite a bit better than SC1 sans obviously increased hardware requirements.

I'd go so far as to be proof that isn't entirely the case.  I loved SCI for six years before I ever went online with it.

[Nuke]

see this is whats killing the pc games industry. i dont need some internet server monitoring my gameplay. i dont want them looking for any reason to void my license so i have to buy another copy. then some years down the line, when they shut down the servers, is the game still gonna work? i dont like this, i dont like this at all.

Ummm, Battle.net probably isn't going to go down unless your nuclear apocalypse hits first.  SC1 is still up and running, 12 years later, and it will be there for the people who haven't bought SCII for a long time.

Hell, it still supports WarCraft II to the best of my knowledge.

well thats to be expected, because this is blizzard after all. but the internet is an unnecessary dependency. its a trend in games id like to see die. we cant expect every game company to be as dedicated as blizzard. some time in the future all the games that i bought in the last 5 years will be completely unplayable (much like the games from the directx 6,7 era), not because the apis changed and not because wel be using a different architecture, but because someone didnt bother to keep a server up and running, and shut it down without patching the game to not require it.

[TopAce]

What makes you think a company wouldn't make a patch if it decides to shut down its server?

Has it happened before?

[Dark RevenantX]

You don't have to keep an internet connection to play; all you have to do is log in once and from then on 'til the end of time you can go offline.

The story is fun but not as good as the original's.  The gameplay is basically the same as it was before, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  The singleplayer mission design is good, but isn't anything to call home about.
Multiplayer is impeded by Bnet 2.0.  Actually, if they had just copied WarCraft III's Battle.net, the whole thing would be worth it even if the singleplayer storyline was removed entirely.  However, we'll have to just wait for Blizzard to get their act together and hopefully combat Activision's bad influence.

[mxlm]

I can't go online and compete with people who play too much :-(

I see this sentiment all over the place time and it's just bizarre; they have a matchmaking system. It's a good one. Those people you can't compete with? After your five placement matches you simply won't be pitted against them.

[QuantumDelta]

I can't go online and compete with people who play too much :-(

I see this sentiment all over the place time and it's just bizarre; they have a matchmaking system. It's a good one. Those people you can't compete with? After your five placement matches you simply won't be pitted against them.

This is really true, WC3s MM system wasn't great, WoWs went through dozens and dozens of iterations and ended up - probably, being the best in the world.
SC2s is the WoW system.

[mister J]

In multi, the lack of LAN would probably give people like me a lot of latency probs though. There are very very few good broadband ISPs here where I'm at. Even some corporate level connections have their share of hiccups every now and then.

I even disconnect out of battle.net every five minutes or so. (prevents me from getting achievements lol.) Even the hardcore competitive matches on youtube have their instances of "xxxx is slowing down the game" popping up every so often, and lag.

Anecdote: I wanted to play my friend in Singapore. Couldn't find him, thing kept disconnecting on me. Couldn't even play a decent five minutes, even if I tried to rush. And this is a game 'designed for e-sports?'

[NGTM-1R]

This is just one long saga of fail. I finally get the digital download installed, and now their patch won't decompress via the program correctly and Blizzard doesn't believe in mirrors.

And you're not allowed to play an unpatched version of the game.

[Hades]

Is there still the 'custom map' mode like they had in SC1 multiplayer and does it use the matchmaking system? There were tons of great maps made for the mode and it was the only one I ever really played. >_>

[Droid803]

The online custom map system is made of fail and then some (you can only play a map if its in the top 50 most popular, or if you upload it yourself), and a whole lot of stupid ****.
But if you only want to play the popular custom maps, it works great.

It doesn't use the MMS, you just pick a map and join :/

[General Battuta]

I finished it.

What a god-awful half-witted piece of **** abortion of an ending.

I can't believe it. In half an hour I just saw the entire meta-arc of Starcraft, the fundamental narrative structure of SC1 and Brood War -

Spoiler:

along with the meaning, interest and dignity of its best and most important character

- shot to pieces.

Spoiler:

The problem wasn't what they did so much as what they didn't. There was no reversal. No conflict. No escalation. Only a decision that makes killing Arthas in World of Warcraft feel like a halfway decent resolution to a character arc.

The story began in the last five missions and ended in the last mission in the most absurdly disappointing way possible, without even an interesting setup for the future.

I thought it might be possible that Starcraft 2 would be a letdown. I didn't think it was possible that it would destroy my interest in the entire setting and almost all its characters, including retroactively annihilating all my fondness for Starcraft 1 and Brood War as good game narratives by taking a hacksaw to every dangling plot thread.

I could go on for a while longer about how truly god-awful the presentation and storywriting was, but I need to go beat my head on a meat tenderizer so I can end my day on a more pleasant note.

[NGTM-1R]

So basically you're castigating them for doing what everyone and their dog has wanted to be able to do since SC1?

[Nuke]

What makes you think a company wouldn't make a patch if it decides to shut down its server?

Has it happened before?

i notice id software removes the drm (even cd requirement) in the game after a few patch cycles.

[General Battuta]

So basically you're castigating them for doing what everyone and their dog has wanted to be able to do since SC1?

A) no,

b) have you actually played/read spoilers for the ending?

c) don't you write or something?

[NGTM-1R]

A) no,

Funny. Sounds that way.

b) have you actually played/read spoilers for the ending?

Now it's ambigous if there's only one way to end it to me still, I haven't been able to check that.

Spoiler:

But I'm quite aware you can end with saving Kerrigan, which is more or less exactly what most of us have wanted ever since Mengsk left her to die at New Gettysburg. We all said "No, **** you, it's not ending this way!" Now, it hasn't.

c) don't you write or something?

You could always check my signature. That might tell you.

More to the point, I fail to see the value of a reverse ending or a twist for its own sake. Wings of Liberty is Raynor's story; the story of possibly the last decent man in the sector. As fun as it is to **** around with the grimdark and have the bad guys win and as realistic as that might (or might not) be, it's ultimately not very satisfying.

Spoiler:

And in terms of the greater Starcraft mythos, Jim Raynor has just royally ****ed things up for everyone. The Overmind created Kerrigan specifically so she could lead the Zerg against the ultimate threat that they've been dropping hints about for a long time in the non-game materials and which Duran worked for. She can't do that anymore if you earn the **** out of your happy ending.

So even the twist you wanted is ultimately there. Just not in the form you would have liked.

[General Battuta]

Nothing I wanted is there. It was a case of setting up Chekov's entire goddamn arsenal on the proverbial mantelpiece and then wheeling in and firing a 16" cannon at an Impressionist painting of a sunset instead.

What a terrible piece of **** story. A more comprehensive failure of imagination and execution could not be conceived, from the charisma vacuum that Raynor has become to the muddled idiot that is the new Zeratul to the incomprehensible and tonally muddled Findlay subplot to the wretched mangled afterbirth that was that ending.

I could go on and on. I think I will.

Spoiler:

Kerrigan was never meant to be rescued. Her fundamental arc took her from a position of subservience and betrayal - first under the Confederacy, then under Mengsk - to finally discovering power and meaning under the Overmind. Brood War was entirely her story. Her character was enriched and made infinitely more fascinating by the fact that she wasn't a mind-controlled thrall made evil by some brainwashing - she genuinely enjoyed her position.

Raynor, too, was defined by the tragic inevitability of being forced to kill her. That was what he swore and it's what he should have been forced to (try to) do. Raynor is not and never has been a particularly interesting man, and this was really all he had as a character.

Worst of all was the fact that Kerrigan never did anything. She took not one action that altered the setting or another character after Brood War. There was so much that could have been done on this front - Kerrigan offering to dispose of Mengsk, Kerrigan doing something, anything - but it wasn't. One of the great villains of game history just got to show up, twirl her mustache, repeat 'drats, foiled again!' for a few missions, and then effectively die.

The idea that blasting her with a Xel'naga artifact could somehow change not just her physical capabilities but her personality and beliefs was a narrative mistake of the highest order. She should have been weeping and raging at what was done to her.  Never mind that it renders all of Brood War and most of Starcraft an utter waste, it fundamentally changes and devalues what Kerrigan was: not a monster, but a human being who had finally found a way out of an endless cycle of betrayal and abuse.

And that goddamn Findlay arc. Dear God. Of all the things in the game it was probably the best executed and most interesting, but it was still a cluster****. Mengsk freed him on the condition that he kill Kerrigan, and was apparently in near real-time contact with him the whole time...yet had no problem with Findlay carrying out the actions that destroyed his regime? Why did Mengsk express surprise that Valerian was attacking Char if he was tracking Findlay, who was right there?

And no, there was no final twist. She will retain control of the Swarms and act as a white hat now.

I hope the multiplayer's fun.

[General Battuta]

post edit'd

[NGTM-1R]

Spoiler:

Kerrigan was never meant to be rescued. Her fundamental arc took her from a position of subservience and betrayal - first under the Confederacy, then under Mengsk - to finally discovering power and meaning under the Overmind. Brood War was entirely her story. Her character was enriched and made infinitely more fascinating by the fact that she wasn't a mind-controlled thrall made evil by some brainwashing - she genuinely enjoyed her position.

Raynor, too, was defined by the tragic inevitability of being forced to kill her. That was what he swore and it's what he should have been forced to (try to) do. Raynor is not and never has been a particularly interesting man, and this was really all he had as a character.

Worst of all was the fact that Kerrigan never did anything. She took not one action that altered the setting or another character after Brood War. There was so much that could have been done on this front - Kerrigan offering to dispose of Mengsk, Kerrigan doing something, anything - but it wasn't. One of the great villains of game history just got to show up, twirl her mustache, repeat 'drats, foiled again!' for a few missions, and then effectively die.

The idea that blasting her with a Xel'naga artifact could somehow change not just her physical capabilities but her personality and beliefs was a narrative mistake of the highest order. She should have been weeping and raging at what was done to her.  Never mind that it renders all of Brood War and most of Starcraft an utter waste.

And no, there was no final twist. She will retain control of the Swarms and act as a white hat now.

I hope the multiplayer's fun.

Spoiler:

Unfortunately for you, Blizzard has stated the exact opposite regarding Sarah Kerrigan's character. She was intially defined by her Confederate conditioning; then she was defined by her desire to ensure "never again".  Being infested did, in fact, result in a violent personality shift. And your belief that it didn't or would is farcical at best considering what exactly infestation involves doing to someone. Of course complete physical reconstruction of your body and ****ing about with your DNA isn't going to **** with your head! Give me a break, Battuta, aren't you a sci-fi author? Transhumanism involves by necessity a shift in perspective; and the Zerg would as a matter of course condition her to be a better servant just as the Confederates did. They've more or less come out and said that leading the swarm is exactly what the Overmind had in mind for her; you think the Overmind would not try and ensure this event came to pass by messing with Kerrigan's head? It can, and it wants a certain sequence of events to occur, and it's committed genocide before to improve its chances so it's not going to give a damn about brainwashing.

Raynor is the quintessential good guy. You're not the first person I've seen with a hate-on for the concept but frankly I still don't understand it. He has been forced to watch as one by one his friends betray him or die around him. The game continues that with Tychus, whose plot is tonally confused as you say precisely to get the point across that this is someone Raynor knows, likes, trusts even if perhaps he shouldn't simply because Raynor is rapidly running out of friends; someone that will ultimately put a bullet in him in repayment for those things. Given that premise, did you honestly believe that given one chance to change things, one chance to bring someone back, he would not take it?

What exactly would you have Kerrigan do?

See above abou what infestation means mentally and physically.

[Hades]

The online custom map system is made of fail and then some (you can only play a map if its in the top 50 most popular, or if you upload it yourself), and a whole lot of stupid ****.
But if you only want to play the popular custom maps, it works great.

It doesn't use the MMS, you just pick a map and join :/

Actually, it's GOOD that there isn't a MMS, that'd **** things up since, y'know, these aren't your run-of-the-mill maps. I just hope that the popular limit thing gets removed so it's more like how it is in SC1.

Also, where did it say that Findley was being tracked? I'm just curious.