[Gamma_Draconis]

By the way, did the Ancients' monologue say that their empire expanded for 1000's for years? I think I recall that.

Or perhaps the Shivans destroyed that star and then spread and destroyed that species (went all the way), but in our case, maybe somehow Bosch convinced the Shivans not to erradicate the T/V and only went as far as destroying a star instead. Maybe without Bosch, the Shivans would have taken it a step furthur and invaded the rest of the GTVA systems after destroying the star and competely wipe out the T/V like that unknown race before the Ancients.

The Ancients were expanding for thousands of years before the discovery of subspace.  It's like the thousands of years that it took for humanity to emerge from a hunter-gathering tribes to nations, and in the FS universe, colonization in the solar system. However, it was implied that the Ancients had a clear technological superiority over the other species they found and could expand much more rapidly. They also probably had more time before they attracted the Shivans. The Terran-Vasudan War, while costing many lives, ironically saved the two species from extinction by accelerating their technological development and

I'm sure Bosch had a significant impact. He is probably the reason why the Shivans withdrew. I'm sure he had something important enough that it would warrant the Shivans communicating all the way across the universe. (I'm sure there's reason why the Shivans needed Comm Nodes instead just using their onboard communications).

[TrashMan]

Yes, because the EMP would be depicted as orange. Or there would be an EMP at all. Or it would cause the ships to rotate and drift like a physical shockwave. Or the EMP destroyed the planets!

There are many ways to interpret that scene but EMP isn't really one of them.

Regardless how you interpret them, both ships were destroyed by the secondary blast.

[NGTM-1R]

Regardless how you interpret them, both ships were destroyed by the secondary blast.

Yes, but we don't know what the secondary blast is or if it is a natural supernova event, or something the Shivans did by mucking about with subspace and the star.

[TrashMan]

Hehe..now you're reaching.

[NGTM-1R]

Hehe..now you're reaching.

Considering we're describing something that already blows holes in our understanding of physics, I don't think there is such a thing as reaching for the second blast.

[Snail]

Subluminal lasers!

[TrashMan]

Hehe..now you're reaching.

Considering we're describing something that already blows holes in our understanding of physics, I don't think there is such a thing as reaching for the second blast.

But there is.
See, there's nothing in FS2 indicating that the explosion itself was abnormal. It was triggered by the shivies haheadof time, but..a supernova is a frigging super-huge nuclear explosion when it comes down to it. There not much you can do different about it.

Not to mention that both ships seems far enough from the sun (near a node no less...nodes have never been that close to the sun)

[NGTM-1R]

See, there's nothing in FS2 indicating that the explosion itself was abnormal.

Except the apparent spectral type and mass of the star.

Or, y'know, the mere fact it's an induced supernova.

Or the mucking about with subspace the Shivans were doing, if they were in fact mucking about with subspace.

[General Battuta]

Yeah but the two blasts do at least appear fairly in line with supernova physics. From what I recall.

[Kopachris]

That sounds about right. I wonder whether the first shockwave was meant to be the EMP or the neutrino pulse (which I believe would be dense enough to do plenty of damage.)

Oh and NGTM-1R there would definitely be an EMP from a supernova. It just probably wouldn't behave in the way that you're thinking of.

Neutrinos go through practically everything without leaving a trace.  They don't interact very well with normal matter, hence "neutrino".  They're also nearly massless and thus travel close to the speed of light.  The EMP, being mere electromagnet waves (i.e., light) would travel at exactly the speed of light (well, duh) and so would of course arrive before the neutrinos.

I know very well what neutrinos are, as you should probably be able to tell from the fact that we're having a coherent discussion about core collapse supernovas.

Neutrinos are indeed generally non-interactive. At this density, however, the neutrino pulse is devastating nonetheless because even the small proportion that do interact with matter are enough to wreak havoc. A significant percentage of the mass of the star goes into the neutrino burst, and in fact if I recall correctly, the neutrino wave alone may be enough to cause extinction events in nearby star systems.

The question here is not which pulse would arrive first. It is whether :V: intended that first shockwave to be the EM pulse or the neutrino pulse.

Alright, I guess I need to brush up a little.

[General Battuta]

Hardly, you were right on pretty every count. It's kind of shocking that there are so many neutrinos that they can actually do damage.

[BengalTiger]

What about (going back to topic):

-Shivans get invaded by a species they were to have destroyed some time ago
-GTVA destroy lots of Shivan stuff on Shivan territory, and then send a guy who somehow submits some of the Shivans into cooperation
-GTVA get the hell out, kill an SJ while doing it, performing the perfect hit and run attack.


-*ASSUMING* there is some sort of high command, and *ASSUMING* Shivans are organized into legions
-Shivan High Command is pi$$ed at the legion that was involved and failed to defend against an attack
-Shivan HC orders a counterattack, and while it is stalled due to lack of resources (due to the fact we destroyed at least 1 mining operation), Shivan HC gets even more pi$$ed
-The attacking legion is considered a waste and is ordered to scuttle
-Attacking legion blows up Capella to scuttle itself, some Jugs prefer to warp out moments before the supernova

[General Battuta]

If you want to retroactively destroy all narrative tension and sense of danger in the FreeSpace series, sure.

You could pull it off, but it'd provoke a lot of disgust. It's the kind of behavior one would expect from a GI Joe cartoon.

[Rico]

I always considered the destruction of Capella as something the Shivans just did, weather be to harvest resources, as an environment to survive in (it could be they like it in there) or to scare off lesser species.

Also I don't think the Shivans want to wipe us out, atleast not anymore, perhaps killing the Lusifer and forging an allience with our bitter enemies (the Vasudans) intregued them? Or perhaps they only hate the vasudans due to being related to the Ancients (its hinted in the techs). That would explain why they were happy to take Bosh.

In the end we dont know, but its left us with lots of possibilities for storylines  

Yeah, it looks like the Deimos and Moloch got taken out by EMP, then shattered by the oncoming wall of plasma.

Yes, because the EMP would be depicted as orange. Or there would be an EMP at all. Or it would cause the ships to rotate and drift like a physical shockwave. Or the EMP destroyed the planets!

There are many ways to interpret that scene but EMP isn't really one of them.

It definently wasnt an EMP, the orange wave was the sun's corona being blasted into space, incinerating anything in its path (hence the deimos and moloch being smashed up and floating wrecks) then the sun collapsed and sent a huge shockwave that just wiped out anything in the system.

Since people cant seem to agree what happens in the vid heres the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qiWAgQeAVY

To me it looks like they've simply used subspace to cause a star to collapse, which is quite feasable.

And the red/orange wave IS the star's coraona being blasted out by the core collapsing, then the shockwave follows and finishes the job.

[Charismatic]

I got a 'new one'(tm) for ya. (I hope)

The people at V are Shivans, letting us grow in tech and knowledge by making FS1 and 2. And now that we beat them in game in both accounts (more or less) they are secretly building up a more massive army. So when they eventually build FS3 and release it without warning we wont know what hit us. Those who do find out about FS3 will buy it  but the numbers will be few due to Interplays ****ty advertizing again and Shivans will overun us and rule the galixy! [spolier]And this time they make it to Sol which we will see in reality, out of game.[/spoiler]
So...the fate of the galixy is in your hands! You are Alpha 1! And we (Alpha 1's) must wait for it....

[QuantumDelta]

Only you can save mankind (If not you, who else?) ......

[Kopachris]

Maybe we need to look at a bigger picture.  To form a concise theory of the Shivans, we must first form a concise theory of the GTVA.  In particular, I find the usage of the term "Lost Generation" interesting.  In world history, the Lost Generation was the group that came of age between WWI and the Great Depression.  Also curious is the usage of the term "The Great War," as WWI was often known by that name.  It seems like [V] may have based the FS franchise off of WWI and WWII.  Shall I invoke Godwin's Law?

[redsniper]

I think it's already been established that the FS games are meant to be WWII dogfights in space.

[NGTM-1R]

I think it's already been established that the FS games are meant to be WWII dogfights in space.

No they're not. They're WWI-style turning fights. I dare you to try to use WWII-type speed-based tactics in FS and see how well it works.

[QuantumDelta]

I think it's already been established that the FS games are meant to be WWII dogfights in space.

No they're not. They're WWI-style turning fights. I dare you to try to use WWII-type speed-based tactics in FS and see how well it works.

Can I take you up on that?