[BengalTiger]

Well, since each fleet has more than one GTD/GVD, I'll assume that only one is a flagship per fleet.

Source please.

A quick look at the wiki and I find that may be a bit hard to prove...

it's also far better armed

Now that is funny. And I guess the Aten is more powerful than the Lilith too.

I was thinking more on the lines of number of turrets rather than beam firepower.

Also- the Aten has 2 AAAf beams, vs the Lilith's single AAAs, so there is at least one category where the Aten is more powerful- antifighter beams.

P.S. Who would create a cruiser which can't really stop a wing of SFr Asmodeuses?

[-Norbert-]

Considering that the Lilith AAA turret has a much better field of fire, on top of the missle launchers and a lot of blob turrets (not to mention WAAAAY stronger armor) I'd say that tiny little advantage is no advantage at all....

[MatthTheGeek]

Considering that the Lilith AAA turret has a much better field of fire, on top of the missle launchers and a lot of blob turrets (not to mention WAAAAY stronger armor) I'd say that tiny little advantage is no advantage at all....

^ This. I just tend to think the Aten is a gunship and the Hecate an heavy carrier. They are not underpowered, they just have the wrong designations.

Also, I guess the Hecate, being a newer design, is probably less expensive to maintain than the Orion.

[Aardwolf]

Considering that the Lilith AAA turret has a much better field of fire, on top of the missle launchers and a lot of blob turrets (not to mention WAAAAY stronger armor) I'd say that tiny little advantage is no advantage at all....

Ah, but in FS1 the Aten was actually a threat (on higher difficulties, anyway). And it doesn't even appear in FS2 (iirc).

From a lore perspective, though, the AAA turrets on the Aten might have just been an attempt to refit it with whatever they could.

Perhaps it isn't even intended for front-line deployment any more when FS2 takes place... re-tasked as an anti-pirates ship or something. After all, with the newer weapons tech everything else was using versus the older hull tech of the Aten, it'd probably be safer to mount a heavy beam on a new ship than on an Aten, where its effectiveness would be limited by its much shorter lifetime. That said, rather than scrap all of the Atens in service, they stick the two AAA's on it and re-task 'em with fending off those lousy space-pirates.

All of that of course depends on the Aten being weaker (defensively) than any of the newer Vasudan warships.

[Thaeris]

Recall that the Aten is the fastest cruiser in FS1, and its speed is still respectable, especially in light of its Great War-era Terran counterparts (which are/were still in service during FS2 to a fairly substantial degree). Thus, due to its permissable armament, the Aten would make for a respectable escort ship for convoy work in light to medium intensity theaters of operation. Unless equipped with some better beams or Fusion Mortars/Flux Cannons, however, the ship is not going to do as much else. Hence the ever-reliable Fenris to the rescue...

...On a side note, the Aten at first gives the impression of being quite durable... it has 18,000 hit points! (compared to the 8,000/10,000 of the Fenris) Of course, that just really means it gets to get pummeled for a while longer while being completely defenseless...

[Paladin327]

...On a side note, the Aten at first gives the impression of being quite durable... it has 18,000 hit points! (compared to the 8,000/10,000 of the Fenris) Of course, that just really means it gets to get pummeled for a while longer while being completely defenseless...

it gives the crew ample time to put their heads between their knees and kis their asps goodbye.

Perhaps it isn't even intended for front-line deployment any more when FS2 takes place... re-tasked as an anti-pirates ship or something. After all, with the newer weapons tech everything else was using versus the older hull tech of the Aten, it'd probably be safer to mount a heavy beam on a new ship than on an Aten, where its effectiveness would be limited by its much shorter lifetime. That said, rather than scrap all of the Atens in service, they stick the two AAA's on it and re-task 'em with fending off those lousy space-pirates.

And lo, the Mentu is born!

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The Mentu's performance is pretty debatable. It has 67 000 HP, which is much more than any other cruiser, but I don't find it particularly fearsome. A Moloch could obliterate it any day.

[headdie]

Comparing the mentu to the mol is not fair, for starter the mol is a corvette to the mentu being a cruiser a corvettes prey

[BengalTiger]

Perhaps to a Vasudan a cruiser is a small ship that eats hits while more fragile fighters do the damage? Something like a 'tank' in MMO's.

In the times before shields such an idea wouldn't be as retarded as it may seem, but in the era of shields and big bombs, a flying turtle without big guns would become obsolete.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Comparing the mentu to the mol is not fair, for starter the mol is a corvette to the mentu being a cruiser a corvettes prey

Okay, that probably wasn't the best comparison I've made in my life. I was thinking in the realm of the Aeolus, which can go toe-to-toe with the Moloch and not get killed on certain occasions, and the Moloch's anti-capship weapons, which are somewhat limited for a corvette.

Perhaps to a Vasudan a cruiser is a small ship that eats hits while more fragile fighters do the damage? Something like a 'tank' in MMO's.

In the times before shields such an idea wouldn't be as retarded as it may seem, but in the era of shields and big bombs, a flying turtle without big guns would become obsolete.

Now that you mention it, don't you find it strange that while Vasudan warships are more robust than their Terran counterparts, the Terrans make stronger spacecraft?

[Klaustrophobia]

maybe i'm just mis-remembering, but it seems like blasting away with primaries and tempests on the mentu did damage far faster than on a lilith or leviathan.  are there any multipliers at play?  i really don't know how the tables work.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

maybe i'm just mis-remembering, but it seems like blasting away with primaries and tempests on the mentu did damage far faster than on a lilith or leviathan.  are there any multipliers at play?  i really don't know how the tables work.

Well, the Mentu would obviously take damage faster than the Lilith, since it has 13 000 less HP...

I have no explanation for the Leviathan taking less damage than the Mentu, though. There are no ship armour variants in retail tables, as far as I know.

[Klaustrophobia]

someone had said the mentu has the highest of any cruiser, sorry.  again, i don't know the tables.

[MatthTheGeek]

You don't need to know the tables, you can just browse the wiki.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

someone had said the mentu has the highest of any cruiser, sorry.  again, i don't know the tables.

I did, and because I didn't check the Wiki beforehand, I overstated the Mentu's HP by 7000.

[Thaeris]

Well, another possible use of the Aten could possibly be one of armed/armored transport or boarding craft. This actually is a fairly reasonable role for the ship, as smaller and lighter ships may not be all that survivable in the face of heavy opposition - a criuser could get close enough to not only deploy maries, but a sizable quantity of them.

Also, a Fenris/Levy may not seem to take as much damage on an attack run as the ships are actually reasonably defended, meaning that you'll be doing more jinking than just straight strafing. An Aten, having only six turrets, is much less a threat to you than a Terran cruiser, which can bring a much more substantial weight of fire to bear, with better coverage to boot.

[NGTM-1R]

A cruiser has a full complement of 1500-2000. The number of people actually needed to fight the ship is probably half to a third of that.

The simple reasoning for placing the number so high is that FS ships, like modern aircraft carriers, operate independently for extended lengths of time and are capable of conducting large-scale self-repair. That raises the crew complement significantly because it requires specialists and their equipment to fabricate parts and provide necessary maintaince for things that would not require attention with regular yard refittings.

(You're all also greatly underestimating what's considered sufficent crew for effective damage control.)

[Scourge of Ages]

I don't know, I'd imagine that in the future where we have giant spacecraft, we'd have been able to automate quite a bit that is currently operated by people.

[The E]

Err, yeah. That's the point. A bit upthread, I stated that a Fenris is about the size of a Nimitz class supercarrier. Normally, those have a crew complement of ~3000 (+2000 guys doing stuff for the air wing). An FS2 cruiser using a tenth or a fifth of the crew sounds about right, given our expectations about what cruisers do, but considering that Cruisers are running a greater risk of being damaged during a normal patrol than your average Carrier, they would want as many people to do DC duties as possible. Especially considering that they usually do not operate in an environment where humans can survive for long, and especially especially considering that your standard FS2 cruiser does not come with the attendant fleet a Carrier has.

In the end, unless they are really, really confident in their automated systems' ability to keep the ship running even with catastrophic damage, the crew numbers NGTM1R suggested sound realistic.

[Trivial Psychic]

To solve the problem of the Mentu's limited firepower, perhaps if/when someone Hi-Polies the ship, they could add a button beam turret right between the forward prongs, and make it an optional subsystem, just as was done to the Moloch.