Author Topic: Space Sims are...hated?  (Read 3762 times)

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Offline Marcov

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Space Sims are...hated?
Basically it's self-explanatory.

I wonder why so many people appear to dislike the genre of Space Flight Simulators. Apparently FS is one of them, that's why few people get to play it, let alone encounter it. Maybe this is the cause for its apparent death?

Also, I'd like to point out that seemingly countless people dislike space battles in general. Why? They're dramatic, action-packed battles and probably the most thrilling you'll ever see.

Any opinions?
With the rapid increase of FS fan-made campaigns, we're giving the GTVA a harder time with more violence and genocide.

~FreeSpace: The Battle of Endor (voice dub)~
Part 1/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9K9-Y1JBTE
Part 2/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtQanXDRAXM
Part 3/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBLKYt_oG0

Old (original) videos:
Part 1/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ygskaoUtE
Part 2/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0uoPTksBlI

 

Offline The E

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Yes. Is there any data to support that thesis, or are you just making stuff up from your own experiences?

Problem is, Space sims (Note the simulation part there?) are notoriously incompatible with anyone but a certain type of gamer. Same goes for realistic flight sims a la MS Flight Simulator or Falcon 4.0. And, you know, some people just don't like sci fi.

Granted, Space sims weren't always the kind of niche genre they are now, but what killed them were not a rising dislike of the genre, but a demographic shift in the gaming culture away from the PC and the nerdy corner into the cultural mainstream. That, more than anything, killed space sims as a big moneymaker.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Granted, Space sims weren't always the kind of niche genre they are now, but what killed them were not a rising dislike of the genre, but a demographic shift in the gaming culture away from the PC and the nerdy corner into the cultural mainstream. That, more than anything, killed space sims as a big moneymaker.
I blame consoles. :P
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Well, there's no reason why you can't have a good console space-sim. And don't tell me "but you can't have a good space sim without needing so many inputs you need a keyboard!" because it's simply not true. Game designers have gotten very good at figuring out how to reduce a game's control inputs to the constraints of a console while keeping the game fun, deep, and playable.

Aren't there some people here who play Freespace with a 360 controller?


 

Offline The E

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Indeed. I mean, the DualShock 3 for example has 16 buttons (including the D-Pad), 2 joysticks plus a motion tracker. You can probably get all controls you need for regular gameplay in there.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Yeah, but space sims are niche games, and who's going to make a niche game for a console, which your average game developer seems to be gravitating towards more and more?
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Space sims are a bit of a contradiction. They have all of the arcade action of a shooter type game combined with the complexity of gameplay and controls more typically associated with a flight simulator.  The flight simulator crowd may not overly enjoy the fictional setting or arcade action and the arcade action/shooter crowd don't like the complexity.

There are still some rumours that Wing Commander will return and EA will green light a new product.  Not sure if that would be a top level development or something a little over the WC Arena effort. If that happens.. then other publishers may want to compete and it could revitalize the market.  Until then... FreeSpace 2 is still the best game in town :)
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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
I think another Wing Commander Arena would kill off space sims for good.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
IMO the field is right for the next great mission-based space sim. Someone will eventually figure this out and muster up the guts to make it.

That, or an indie developer makes a game that makes space sims popular again. That would probably trigger the major studios into getting back into the game. For better or worse. :p

Consoles figured out how to do some pretty decent arcadey flight sims... they can totally manage the same for space sims, and it's only a matter of time.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
I'm all for indie developers. Most of the spaceflight simulators/flight sims in general I've seen about are indie in a way regardless, X-Plane included. And this is a good thing. Independant devs make products to their standards and tend to be able to avoid the restrictions of the big studios.
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
i dont consider freespace a space sim so much as i consider it a space shooter. the affix sim usually requires some degree of realistic physics. i consider orbiter a space sim.
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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Space sims dont necessarily needs complex controls, or space shooters, colony wars on the ps worked fine with the pad. Terrible graphics though.

 

Online Colonol Dekker

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
 :o the first space opera I EVER played was Wing Commander secret missions,(Sivar dreadnaught one) on the SNES.
 
One of my favourites of all time.
 
The controls were a piece of cake. I actually preferred them to the keyboard. So once I get myself a USB  SNES control. (I've been meaning to for years) that's gonna be my chosen method.
 
 
The genre died because of Metal gear generation titles saturating the market.
 

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
Space sims dont necessarily needs complex controls, or space shooters, colony wars on the ps worked fine with the pad. Terrible graphics though.

my point was that "space sim" was a misnomer in that there was very little actual simulation going on and that the term space shooter was more appropriate to freespace. space sim should be reserved for things like orbiter, frontier, space combat, iwar, ect.

when i show someone freespace and they become totally discouraged because the number of keyboard commands, i usually make the point that you really dont use most of them. with a hotas i rarely touch the keyboard and even then i dont use them all. of course when i look at the modern tactical fps game kinda scares me with the number of controls you have to use in a genre where your used to wasd and mouse. even some console games are daunting, frankly i dont get how hoards of console players manage playing halo proficiently.  some months ago at my sisters place i played destroy all humans on their xbox, then several months later i couldnt remember the controls because they were really unorthodox from what i was used to. yet somehow i manage to play doom on my 5g ipod.

i really dont see any problem playing freespace on a game pad, provided that some thought is given to mapping and use of shift buttons is permitted. some things like the ets gauge, shields, and com menus would need to be thought out. for example using a shift key would make one thumbstick control shield balence, and the other control ets settings (think starlancer's power ball). hitting the com button might open the menu and allow nevigation with a thumbstick. then you would just need to worry about targeting and weapons.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 04:51:55 pm by Nuke »
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
For most gamers i think its what people are used to playing with, most gamers now are probly more fimilar with console controlers, personaly i cant understand using an xbox controler over a keyboard/mouse combo in an fps game, the only shooter that actually worked for me was goldeneye on the n64. console controllers are better for platformers, racing games and fighting games whereas keyboards/mice are better for fps games and rts games, but in most cases you can use either without a major problem.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
I think it also depends on the sort of console you're talking about.  The Wii controller setup is pretty much ready-made for FPSes, and I'm kind of surprised that no one (as far as I know) has tried rolling out an RTS title for it.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
i wouldn't even consider the wii because its kind of an oddity where the conventions of gaming were thrown out the window in favor of something completely different. while the wii is pretty awesome, it doesn't fit well with many established genres, but it does is make new genres plausible. i dont think it's control scheme works well for your classic fps. however if you rewrite the conventions, like make the weapon aimable independent from the view controls and walking controls, then you can improve upon the genre while not exactly fitting the classic mold.

i kinda thing about the ps2/3 controllers to be the most well designed game pad in existence (i hate the 360 pad), so thats what i think about when somone mentions gamepads. it has a good button density, pretty light, isnt ridiculously large, has enough axes for most games. but id rather have my ch controllers, and id be more open to consoles if i could plug my pc joysticks into them.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 04:05:27 pm by Nuke »
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Online Colonol Dekker

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
I'd use the term conventions rather than rules when talking about the Wii. Old doesn't mean preferable.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
I'd use the term conventions rather than rules when talking about the Wii. Old doesn't mean preferable.

yea i think i was half asleep when i posted that.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Locutus of Borg

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Re: Space Sims are...hated?
My two favorite silly people in one place!!!

:D
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