Author Topic: Axem's HTL Charybdis  (Read 58214 times)

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Offline mjn.mixael

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Offline Droid803

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* Droid803 opens the texture file...

errr....no.

he did do a (exceptionally) good job keeping the look of the most distinctive tiles on it (the blue/yellow ones that run along the side), but the texture looks to me like it is "handmade" to me. There are absolutely no tiles tossed on.

Err yes.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBadDay.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/Capital05-01.png

It's clearly used in several places. Just used -well-, unlike on the Iceni.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/kc1991/HTLHadesUVmapTex.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/Capital05-01.png where?

yes please? point out where its slapped onto the texture.
please.
i'm known to be blind, help me out here.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Hellstryker

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To remake every pixel of a tilemap to that detail is insanity when you could just slap it onto the UV Map, but kudos to VA for *paying attention to it* then. The latest models I've seen from the FSU team don't even try.

Anyway this place has gone even more downhill than I imagined. I'm being told to go **** myself for having a different taste in textures? That's... I have no words, really.

And for the record, Hades, I know precisely how to unwrap and hand paint a model. Don't draw assumptions when you've nothing to base them upon.

What I'm not going to do, however, is tediously unwrap a model for a bunch of people who have a worse attitude than the ones who drool over Jinx's planar mapped junk on Discovery. I wanted to fiddle with the textures for my own satisfaction to see if I could get it to look halfway decent, IN MY OPINION. My opinion, which unlike some others here I'm not going to force on anyone.

 

Offline Hades

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Don't draw assumptions when you've nothing to base them upon.

That said I'm not a fan of the Iceni myself, but the textures on this thing don't properly reflect how [V] would've wanted it to look, that fact is clear as day to me.

What I'm not going to do, however, is tediously unwrap a model for a bunch of people who have a worse attitude than the ones who drool over Jinx's planar mapped junk on Discovery. I wanted to fiddle with the textures for my own satisfaction to see if I could get it to look halfway decent, IN MY OPINION. My opinion, which unlike some others here I'm not going to force on anyone.
We just don't care for morons, is all.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Hellstryker

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It has textures that don't sit well with my own personal view of FS 2 era junk. Yeap, that makes me a moron right there, gotcha. I'll keep that in mind in all my future moron-endeavors.

 

Offline Droid803

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To remake every pixel of a tilemap to that detail is insanity when you could just slap it onto the UV Map, but kudos to VA for *paying attention to it* then. The latest models I've seen from the FSU team don't even try.

Go take a closer look at the HTL Hades and tell me you could still slap that tilemap on.
That tilemap is missing a cruicial third dimension that is present on the HTL Hades' yellow girders, and piping...and...well, many other things. The result would be...well, poor, to say the least.

I'm making no comment on your taste in texture styles, but please, (to quote yourself)

Don't draw assumptions when you've nothing to base them upon.


:P
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 08:41:37 pm by Droid803 »
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Hades

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It has textures that don't sit well with my own personal view of FS 2 era junk. Yeap, that makes me a moron right there, gotcha. I'll keep that in mind in all my future moron-endeavors.
Nah. That's not what it is. Your insistence of drawing assumptions, whether it be acting as Volition's messenger or telling everyone else how someone else did their textures is rather moronic.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Hellstryker

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Ah okay, well fair enough then, the Charry doesn't really have very much to go by admittedly but from the vibes I'm picking up here you guys wouldn't have a problem with doing the same style thing on the Orion except in blue instead of grey.

Anyway Droid what I was saying is that you reuse the tiles where you can and custom paint on other things. Pipes? Custom paintjob. Flat blue surface? Copy paste tile map. It's a pretty situational sort of deal there...

I'm for a combination of the two personally.

 

Offline Zacam

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Again, argue the ISSUE not the PERSON. I won't say it again, and Hades, while you are attempting to make decent points, you could stand to tone down the (what could be perceived as) hostility please.

Hellstryker: Texturing differences aside (as in, how one would go about doing it in the first place), The Hades looks like the Hades. The Colossus looks like the Colossus, The Typhon the Typhon. And to the opinion of many, the Charybdis. The model is different and more polished which has necessitated an aesthetic shift in perception to it's texture, which has several "distinctively Charybdis" elements retained.

That it's not the same old tiles wrapped into a UV-Map is not important, because it doesn't HAVE to be that, if the artist behind texturing it doesn't roll that way. But -even if- it was textured that way, there would still have to be some adjustments to how and where those respective tiles got laid out to in order to best respect and compliment the shape of the model itself.

Yes, there are not hundreds of tiny panel lines (producing what some people would call a "brick wall" look, only metal, others call it "paneling") but there are still definitive sections of panel work that were carefully considered in terms of how they would fit to the new model while still affording the same basic color tone of the original and the retention of the suggestive shape of the model.

On those merits alone, the design of both the model and the texture (in my opinion) are an astounding Success. Both Axem and Sab0o have shown a great deal of care and attention into providing an exemplary combination of collaboration. Judged and based SOLELY on that merit alone, I don't think anybody can disagree with the factual statement that this is an awesome piece of work.

The disconnect seems to be "because it's not the same tiles, just in a UV-map". As already explained, it just can't be. Anybody willing to give the texture a shot at making it look that way can feel free to do so, and I'll be more than happy to accept it's submission if I should be proven wrong. But to my mind, having all those incessant panels that the original retail texture has and putting it on this model, would drown all the detailing done with this model.

And even if we split the difference, we start creating a product that has more "noise" to it than it needs in my opinion. This is a new, fabricated ship with a purpose. Purpose doesn't entail having things done for no apparent reason for them to be done. I don't see body panels on cars being needlessly sub-divided, I shouldn't expect to see needlessly subdivided panels on a warship.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 08:51:41 pm by Zacam »
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Hades

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Again, argue the ISSUE not the PERSON. I won't say it again, and Hades, while you are attempting to make decent points, you could stand to tone down the hostility please.
Oh I know, however that's not as fun and doesn't anger him as much. :pimp:
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Hellstryker

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On those merits alone, the design of both the model and the texture (in my opinion) are an astounding Success. Both Axem and Sab0o have show a great deal of care and attention into providing an exemplary combination of collaboration. Judged and based SOLELY on that merit alone, I don't think anybody can disagree with the factual statement that this is an awesome piece of work.

It's a fine piece of work, it just doesn't roll with how the Charry would turn out in my mind. I certainly can't say I have any complaints with the mesh.


The disconnect seems to be "because it's not the same tiles, just in a UV-map". As already explained, it just can't be. Anybody willing to give the texture a shot at making it look that way can feel free to do so, and I'll be more than happy to accept it's submission if I should be proven wrong. But to my mind, having all those incessant panels that the original retail texture has and putting it on this model, would drown all the detailing done with this model.

I can understand the fear of it drowning out detail in the model, but so far as I see most of the detail is on the intricate bits such as the sensor arrays and that sort of thing, whereas the midsection of the ship is still pretty flat and using even flatter textures, which is a little off putting for me but again a matter of opinion.

As stated if somebody would be so kind as to send me the model in .3ds or .max or something I'd be happy to play around with it.


And even if we split the difference, we start creating a product that has more "noise" to it than it needs in my opinion. This is a new, fabricated ship with a purpose. Purpose doesn't entail having things done for no apparent reason for them to be done. I don't see body panels on cars being needlessly sub-divided, I shouldn't expect to see needlessly subdivided panels on a warship.


Matter of opinion there, makes sense but I personally prefer my vanilla brick panel ships. Nostalgia I suppose, d'no really.

And Hades, you don't anger me, you're just making an ass out of yourself. Give it a rest. x.x

 

Offline Zacam

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How about, it will start to anger me, and you really don't want that.

Keep the personal to private messaging. Or anywhere OTHER than a Release thread.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
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"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Droid803

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This isn't a release thread though (yet?)
It's a WiP thread.

...though it has been rather derailed :(
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Zacam

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Well, if there stop being posts that I have to run a fire extinguisher over, I'll finish up the gas textures, we'll get the sub-model rotating pieces in the dome sorted out and it WILL be a release thread. :D

Or at the very least, get some updated screens and maybe a vid of the machine in action for people to "oooo" and "aaaaah" over.

And to anybody with concerns about the mapping: Nothing is finalized until the next MediaVPs come out, even after an individual Release. So really, getting hot and bothered at this point in time is counter productive, so let's just not, okay?

We will take information on all sides into consideration, but we're not here to make everybody happy. We're here to make and maintain upgrades. That different people will have a different idea as to exactly what that means in relation to it's definition, is neither here nor there for the moment and is a topic best suited to another thread.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
Talk with the community on Discord
"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Dragon

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If you are refering to the "paneling" surrounding the turret, then that I can agree is different, but I see no reason why that difference should make any difference at all, other than to maybe think about making the turret collar more distinctive so that it can stand out a little bit more.

Yes, I am referring to that. Turret "collar" and the thing that the dome is standing on (the one with part of a circle on it), should be reflected on the new texture.
Texture on front and "wings" definitely stands out from other sections, since it's much brighter than them. I just want it to be reproduced on the new texture.

 

Offline Sab0o

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I've sent Hellstryker the model in .3ds, let's see what he's capable of.

Enjoy working with my uv map.

 
That is one hell of a pack job. Are you using Max 2012?
Did you hear that fellas? She says I have a Meritorious Unit.

 

Offline Sab0o

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Wings3d. Manually.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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I'm more curious about the trollface. :nervous:

 

Offline Mongoose

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He had 60x60 pixels' worth of extra space and felt the need to fill it with something? :p