Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 984796 times)

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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Holy jeezus, can't you wait for me to edit my posts before rushing with 5 more ?

He lost one, count it, ONE Deimos at Neptune.  The UEF lost two Karunas and four Sancti.  That rate of attrition is immensely favorable to the GTVA, considering that Deimos are rather plentiful in the GTVA battlegroups.
You don't retreat for loosing a single corvette. If Severanti lost First Neptune, it's because the UEF defeated him, and his whole battlegroup and fighter complement probably took a good beating in the process.

The thing is, he lost against what the GTVA was considering until then as defenseless pacifists. Given the strength ratio between the UEF and his forces, he nearly HAD to engage himself into a war of attrition until the GTVA could deploy more forces.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
If you read the fiction again (and I don't mean to imply you haven't), he retreats for effectively two reasons.  1) Yes, his flagship had taken a beating, and 2) his fighter cover was shredded.  Neither of those, however, is tantamount to a *****slapping defeat.  I'm fairly certain, although you could probably turn up some argument, that Severanti would have decisively taken Neptune had he stayed the field.

Remember too that the entire 16th Battlegroup was waiting in reserve.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well bear in mind that Uriels carry Jackhammer torpedoes and that gunships were explicitly close-assaulting his Hecate, which usually means ripping up subsystems. I'd say he was in serious danger of losing his flag.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Have you got a link to the video for Severanti's Neptune op? Or maybe even the mission itself? (Damn no puppydog eyes smiley)

EDIT: Nvm found the video on youtube, thanks anyway Scotty.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 01:57:52 pm by Buckshee Rounds »

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The withdrawal of a Hecate from the field is hardly an overwhelming loss of firepower on the Tev side, but I'll concede that his flag quitting the field was a good idea.  I'm just not convinced that the rest of the 13th, perhaps reinforced by the 16th, would have lost or even been effectively slowed by any resistance around Neptune.

@Buckshee:  Battle of Neptune (the mission) was never really completed.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
For the vid, there you go (first Google match)

Well, granted, Hecates suck, but without your command ship and your fighter cover, there is only so much you can do against an enemy who has already overwhelmed your position.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I think we disagree on the "Already overwhelmed" part of the argument.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
RACE FOR PAGE 100YES!****
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 04:16:50 pm by Jeff Vader »

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, "killed one of your Deimos", "fighter cover shredded", "close-assaulting your flagship" and "destroying all of its subsystems" are more than enough to call a "all your positions are belong to us" situation.

Also, W00T at ttuta.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Wow, that was the first mission I've ever seen in FS that made the Hecate look really cool. The vid cuts out after 5 mins though, what happened next?

Oh and if we ever see pre-R1 WiH missions is there a version of the Nara without artillery? I couldn't help noticing it still had cannons in the vid.

Damn Battuta, you're like an epileptic kid chasing a train.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, "killed one of your Deimos", "fighter cover shredded", "close-assaulting your flagship" and "destroying all of its subsystems" are more than enough to call a "all your positions are belong to us" situation.

Also, W00T at ttuta.

In light of crippling capship losses on the UEF side, and the entirely applicable (if possibly harmful) We Have Reserves capability of the GTVA, I don't think it's enough to call it.

And yes, woot at tutta. :P

 

Offline crizza

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
There are some missions, I want to play...battle for Neptune and Saras Helios are included:)

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Battle of Neptune might get revisited/finished if enough people want it bad enough (don't quote me on that.  It's Dilmah's mission).

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
In light of crippling capship losses on the UEF side, and the entirely applicable (if possibly harmful) We Have Reserves capability of the GTVA, I don't think it's enough to call it.
I don't think the GTVA had much more reserves to commit at this point. Remember the GTVA forces on the field were about half those in WiH, and that the UEF was still in A1-supar shape. If any, it's the UEF who would be in the We Have Reserves situation.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 03:23:47 pm by MatthTheGeek »
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

  

Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
In light of crippling capship losses on the UEF side, and the entirely applicable (if possibly harmful) We Have Reserves capability of the GTVA, I don't think it's enough to call it.
I don't think the GTVA had much more reserves to commit at this point. Remember the GTVA forces on the field were about half those in WiH, and that the UEF was still in A1-supar shape. If any, it's the UEF who would be in the We Have Reserves situation.
Err... According to Post Meridian, the GTVA had "two dozen" destroyers, of which only 5 (Hood, Meridian, Carthage, Imperieuse, Atreus) were actually deployed in Sol.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Err... What's your point ? The GTVA had only two destroyers in Sol at that time (Requiem and Meridian IIRC), Vs the four they had in WiH.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
My point being they have reserves out of Sol?

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
And what do you want to do with reserves out of Sol to help in a battle that takes place inside Sol ?

The UEF had all its forces at an intrasystem jump away, aka a few minutes away aside from the prep time.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
And what do you want to do with reserves out of Sol to help in a battle that takes place inside Sol ?
They're called "reserves" for a reason. Presumably because they are reserves. Being held in reserve.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The big difference is the political availability of extra forces to the Tevs.  A new Deimos or three can be sortied through the gate with little fuss, it seems.  Sending a FrigRon from 1st Fleet to support 3rd Fleet and militia elements is both much less likely to happen, and decidedly more of a political move, with all the disadvantages (and, granted, sometimes advantages) that entails.