[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by DTP
turrets, yeah it would be nice if they all could rotate but?.

In the future such as in the Freespace timline. actually rotating turrets would seem dated.

Techinichans would rather be working on eliminating any rotating parts and aim to build turrets that can shoot in any direction without actually rotating the turret.

That there already is such turrets in Freespace I/II is because of what we all know that there is a limit in the engine.

But since actually rotating turrets would seem, dated to people living in that timeline, I would not spend time on getting it to work anyway.

Some of the weapons that can be mounted on turrets need some sort of rotating/aiming mechanism to point them in the proper direction. For reference:

• Plasma batteries. Depending on what is used to accelerate the plasma toward the target, it may or may not be necessary to have an aiming mechanism.
  
• Laser guns. Maybe a moving aperture or something.
  
• Missile batteries. Missiles home on their target, so no need for the turret to aim them.
  
• Beam cannons. These are really strange, so I have no clue about these.
  
• Flak guns. Just like anti-aircraft flak of today, you have to aim the gun to shoot the flak shell in the appropriate direction. This also applies to other projectile weapons (Avenger, Maxim, etc).
  

[DTP]

Yes a aiming mechanism, but a mechanical solution would seem dated.

IF you look at the way the Phasers in Star trek TNG+ works. Well that is the sort futuristic aiming mechanism I would think is standard in the Freespace timeline.

Big mechanical rotating turrets would be about as modern and useful as rotating sections a babylon 5 "minbari" cruiser.

They would be a thing of the past.

The flak weapon is in my opinion the only weapon that needs a mechanical aiming device.

As a ship designer I would hide the Turning parts inside the hull of the ship to minimize their damageable surface.

I could draw up some schematics of how this would work, but it would take time to make as such as it would be perfectly clear to you how it would work without actually having to see it in action.

But take my word for it. Designers will reduce the profile of any ship in order to minimize the target area.

Look at Tanks, first they where big lumpy and had a high profile.

Today tanks are by comparison small and have a low profile so that their target profile is very small.

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by DTP
Yes a aiming mechanism, but a mechanical solution would seem dated.

IF you look at the way the Phasers in Star trek TNG+ works. Well that is the sort futuristic aiming mechanism I would think is standard in the Freespace timeline.

Big mechanical rotating turrets would be about as modern and useful as rotating sections a babylon 5 "minbari" cruiser.

They would be a thing of the past.

The flak weapon is in my opinion the only weapon that needs a mechanical aiming device.

As a ship designer I would hide the Turning parts inside the hull of the ship to minimize their damageable surface.

I could draw up some schematics of how this would work, but it would take time to make as such as it would be perfectly clear to you how it would work without actually having to see it in action.

But take my word for it. Designers will reduce the profile of any ship in order to minimize the target area.

Look at Tanks, first they where big lumpy and had a high profile.

Today tanks are by comparison small and have a low profile so that their target profile is very small.

My point was that most (if not all) weapons will need a mechanical aiming system of some sort, though it could certainly be inside the hull of the ship to increase its robustness.

[Nico]

who cares? they look good, that's the point.I can point many things that seems outdated in FS2. but that makes it look cool. Anachronisms are a good way to give "personality" to a universe, and many sci-fi (or anything else for that mater) writers understood.
The exemple of babylon5? mmh, no rotating turrets on the minbari ships coz it doesn't fit the design, that's all. terran ships in B5 have that, no? So?...

[Kitsune]

An excerpt from the background of the Interstellar Alliance Victory-Class Destroyer:

This conglomeration of Minbari and Humans is in some ways very useful, as it puts different ideas together in a way not thought about before, for example, the Minbari had not put their ships weaponry in turrets in ages, yet this Human addition to the design solved all blind spots in its field of fire, without adding undue mass to the design. The main contractor for the ships is Edgars Industries of Mars, working together in a joint venture with Minbari of all three Casts.

But at any rate, having the aiming mechanisms inside the hull takes away from the armor around the ship near the gun.  Plus a large chunk of internal area needs to be devoted to the mechanics of swinging things around to aim.

Granted, it helps your profile, but then again, it hurts your armor.

I'd rather have regular Swinging turrets, extra armor, a black paintjob and a coating of radar absorbant material.  Because ship profile isn't going to matter any if they know where you are.  I'd rather have the armor and guns that can track 180x360 degrees to chase targets that may buzz by when that happens.

[Red5]

Even though my computer got stolen i might have a copy of fs2 left and im gonna try and install it on my parents cpu, i wanna import some starwars models to the game and maybe play around with them, i have some ideas, here check them out...

Id like to have a source code mod that would allow movable parts like rotating wings and cockpits like the SW B-Wing and the Skipray Blast boat...Also id like to be able to have expandable parts to like how Xwings Sfoils open and close and the Z95's (older) can swing forward

My other request/idea is to be able add more primares than 2 banks, or allow firing of a single primary, double, or quad fire instead of the double or quad, or single or double, those are my two requests

Still another request is to expand the playable field of the game from like 100,000 meters or whatever it is to like 100x that so GTVA Command wont say turn around and you wont blow up

[LAW ENFORCER]

about turrets, not everyone is doing fs2 stuff, I was hoping to take any achivments you will make on the code then either add to it my self or get some one to do it, my wanted code list is already large about 27 and i am always thinkning of more (not just more ships, stuff like fleet flags, mountable missiles, advanced sepcies control etc etc) so remember the source dosn't nessicaraly have to fit the FS2 universe

[LtNarol]

Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
about turrets, not everyone is doing fs2 stuff, I was hoping to take any achivments you will make on the code then either add to it my self or get some one to do it, my wanted code list is already large about 27 and i am always thinkning of more (not just more ships, stuff like fleet flags, mountable missiles, advanced sepcies control etc etc) so remember the source dosn't nessicaraly have to fit the FS2 universe

The purpose of the project is a better FS2, not something completely different.  To that end, whatever you want to do with the code, go ahead, but for the sake of the project, I think the actual programmers are more concerned with things that affect fs2.

[Inquisitor]

Well, the "purpose" of the project is still a little nebulous, and a better FS2 means different things to different people

There are a couple TC's that should get some attention in the code, I'd guess, B5 being a big one.

[LAW ENFORCER]

what i really meant to say was don't close it off basicaly, make it as easy as you can to change one of your features. ya know?
and if you (not YOU idavidualy but they people who code it) have a chance to make something table or ship based rather than hardcoded I think that should be a good goal.

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
what i really meant to say was don't close it off basicaly, make it as easy as you can to change one of your features. ya know?
and if you (not YOU idavidualy but they people who code it) have a chance to make something table or ship based rather than hardcoded I think that should be a good goal.

Here are some things that would be pretty cool and are along those lines:

• Weapon flag: "shield piercing" -- ignores shields. (Should probably give the AI a hint to use this weapon against shielded ships, though without overriding the "bomber+" and "huge" flags.)
• Random lifetimes for weapons ("Lifetime Min" and "Lifetime Max" fields, a la countermeasures).
• Control of the number of corkscrew missiles fired per salvo.
• Control of width of corkscrew formation.
• Control of delay between firing swarm missiles (currently somewhere around 0.25 sec, hardcoded).
• Control of delay between firing corkscrew missiles (currently no delay AFAICT).
• "Anti Shield" and "Anti Hull" flags to give the AI a hint as to how to use the Maxim and Circe properly. The AI already does this with "Puncture" weapons -- it only uses them against subsystems.
• Control of what type of countermeasures a ship has.
• Control of the minimum/maximum firing angles of turrets. Needs to be specified per turret, not per weapon!

Other things that aren't really configurability improvements, but I thought of them and decided to throw them in anyway:

• Ability to disable the set of engine glows associated with a particular engine subsys. Currently, all engine glows are on unless the ship is disabled, in which case they are all off. Imagine taking out just the forward engine on a Deimos -- the forward engine sputters and quits glowing, but the other two engines keep glowing, unaffected.
• XML table format, for easier parsing/editing, both by FS2 itself and by third-party applications (editors, etc).

[LAW ENFORCER]

Ability to disable the set of engine glows associated with a particular engine subsys. Currently, all engine glows are on unless the ship is disabled, in which case they are all off. Imagine taking out just the forward engine on a Deimos -- the forward engine sputters and quits glowing, but the other two engines keep glowing, unaffected.

I thought it did that already! No wonder it never worked on my ships! Ha!

yes you seed to say lots about missiles all of that stuff was covered in one of my wanted bits, why don't I just post the whole file up here I think my TCs gonna be a while...

[
Logged in at 19:23 18/05/2002
creating file and starting from paper list

####LAW ENFORCER'S WANTED CODE LIST####

1. Files size limits annihilated or dictated by me - dictated would be best

2. Species control including things like initial allies, netrals and enemys (which can change at any time) and global properties which have default thruster glows, ship skins etc

3. Glow/texture settings per ship indivadual settings overriding the defaults in above or normal

4. Any lights any where (on any model which will allow 'real' lights with blink patterns and partners for run ways etc from a 'light' object (still model like rest) (non-ship) Also support for HUD lights not 'real' to be placed in same manner (check box?)

5. Turrets any direction on any plane (including a full 3d FOV editor)

6. missile points with detachable missiles (including doors which would open when fireing would commence) or normal FS2 mode. Each missile point should have firing properties which include things like detach style (straight out or drop etc which inturn would have properties like drop length and speed) note that some missiles or bombs may have a deploy stlye ONLY which would mean they do thier style rather than anything tied to the missile point. A simple dock style system could be used for where and what diection the missiles are attached

7. Diffrent mainhall screens (deeper more like a real ship) lets you do more in the GUI.

8. Planets with docks, moving parts, etc as well as static models. (they should have the possiblity of atmospheres)

9. Much better AI (e.g. allies work in teams against enemys etc) Global/Ship AI editor which defines 'behind the scences' what type of mission your in etc It will determin how the AI behaves as a whole. The ship aspect of it should have a similar set of properties but should have some uniqu things to do with parts of a ship or a ship in particular (base, mother ship, subsystems etc can be prioritised in order or at same level so they can be defended properly for example)

10. breezer curve with a line at the 'up' side for waypoints, this will allow much more fluid and smooth as well as cool waypoint manouvers

11. make kamakasi collisions more dramatical and look better ships move/lodge into ship before exploding etc.

12. Waypoints attachable to ships (or other models) for special manovuers near ships or stations (can be anywhere but are assigned to the ship and move in acordance with it)

13. Special explosions but not for distruction, just have an explosion somewhere on the craft (selectable)

14. fully featured end mission editor, this should inculde lots of ways to end a mission and should also have things like cutscences (eiseir than in campaign) (could also link to game engine cut sences in mission zone!)

15. Deployable things like wings or weapon pods (it must have the capability to move firing points, or at the very least disable them while deployed). This could also reduce drag in atmospheric flight

16. accuracy code for missiles (esspecialy older tech ones). It would make them not always hit the same place (might have a viralby chance that a missile wout spin totaly of course)

17. better more versitile 'corkscrew' effect

18. limit certain weapons to certain hard points

19. on turrets all barels fire (at slower rate) or one at a time (set in fred as part of the ship AI editor) which can change if AI setup permits it (usually yes)

20. Increase number of possible glows and lights etc

21. more gun and missile banks (make room on hud as well)

22. back launched missiles and back moving front launched missiles (last starfighter moments!)

23. Diffrent support ships. Shouild have default type with overide in FRED aswell as numbers so so many of each ship avalible will arrive before they dry up

24. on screen timer display

25. Fleet flags (which is also the home squadron)

26. pericing weapons plus blades on ships (which ram other ships) which dig into a ship

27. pop up turrets (for supprise attacks, make them undetecable)
]

[Stryke 9]

Dunno what anyone's listed yet, but as far as I can tell all of my favorite theoretical toys have never made it to any game, so...

Diffuse beam cannons: In other words, instead of a laser-like linear spread, a more flashlight-like arc beam that can have a settable amount of damage falloff as you get farther from the center.

Timed charges: Shoot a missile. It makes contact, and burrows in to the ship. 5 seconds later, the ship is close up to half a dozen others, and the warhead goes off, taking them all out. Alternately, the missile doesn't do all its damage at once, but slowly taps off the HP of the afflicted ship after making contact until a set time passes or the ship dies.

General improvements of the power systems: Trails of hydrogen created by capship engines, which have some negative effects on sensors but can be harvested for added power by a specialty secondary-unit ramscoop would be nice. So would limited amounts of fuel, so you have to keep an eye on your gauge once in a while.

Arc/Splitter beams: Pretty straightforward, though not at the top of my list. Rather than linear beams, you get a sort of particle effect that can curve to track or pass behind a unit, or that can branch off at a certain distance to hit ships not in the range of the central beam itself.

[LAW ENFORCER]

fule! nice idea, im gonna add that to some of my old tech ships!

I like the timed charge thing cool, (the first one)

the rest of the ideas sound like they came stright out of a tactical space game, amada 2 and conflict frontier wars for example (slow damage, gas affecting your ship (nebulas), arc beams)

[penguin]

Originally posted by _argv[-1]

• XML table format, for easier parsing/editing, both by FS2 itself and by third-party applications (editors, etc).

[/B]

Way back when (6 weeks ago :D ) when I was trying to write my own open FS2 from scratch, my biggest PITA was trying to parse those :mad: .tbl files.

XML or something easily parsed would rock.

And here's penguin's #1 wishlist item: a configurable UI, including the menu system and the HUD.  All of the image names and positions would be in yet another .tbl file.  This would:

• put to bed the 640x480 / 1024x768 / XXXXxYYYY argument
• fly FS1-era missions w/ FS1 (GTA) user interface and HUD
• fly FS2 missions w/ FS2 (GTVA) UI
• have a completely new UI and HUD for new campaigns, especially for those of you that have non-FS campaigns in mind (B5 comes to mind)
• have a freely-distributable game that requires no licensed :V: files, once somebody draws a generic UI (no offense to :V: -- you guys deserve to make money, but the FS1 and FS2 games are getting harder to find...)

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by penguin
have a freely-distributable game that requires no licensed :V: files, once somebody draws a generic UI (no offense to :V: -- you guys deserve to make money, but the FS1 and FS2 games are getting harder to find...)

This brings up another point: I think game companies (and software companies in general, for that matter) should put anything they're not selling into the public domain, or at least license it liberally (ie, you can copy this, have fun, but don't claim it's yours, etc). Since they're not making money from it anymore, and they're not making money from anything derived from it anymore, why frustrate people by preventing them from getting it?

[LAW ENFORCER]

yes but, didn't :V: just realease the source so we could change it and rerelease it for MODs and stuff - in a TOTAL!!! converison wouldn't that be what that guy, that was just quoted said?

anyway - that would be nice of game companys but how many 'nice' game 'companys' have you come accross? 3? 4 even?

[EdrickV]

Just a little note, there's a difference between releasing code like and ID Software did and releasing something as public domain. Public domain software as I understand it basically has no copyrights attached. You could take public domain code and do whatever you wanted with it. Maybe even charge money for it. The FS2 source code isn't public domain. It's copyrighted and owned by them. They're letting us play around with it as long as we're not trying to make money off it.

To quote Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: public domain
Function: noun
Date: 1832
1 : land owned directly by the government
2 : the realm embracing property rights that belong to the community at large, are unprotected by copyright or patent, and are subject to appropriation by anyone

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
anyway - that would be nice of game companys but how many 'nice' game 'companys' have you come accross? 3? 4 even?

2. id Software and Parallax Software.

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by EdrickV
Just a little note, there's a difference between releasing code like and ID Software did and releasing something as public domain. Public domain software as I understand it basically has no copyrights attached. You could take public domain code and do whatever you wanted with it. Maybe even charge money for it. The FS2 source code isn't public domain. It's copyrighted and owned by them. They're letting us play around with it as long as we're not trying to make money off it.

To quote Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: public domain
Function: noun
Date: 1832
1 : land owned directly by the government
2 : the realm embracing property rights that belong to the community at large, are unprotected by copyright or patent, and are subject to appropriation by anyone

id Software didn't release Quake as public domain; rather, they released it under the terms of the GPL. The GPL is quite restrictive, in that anything you make based on the GPL must also be licensed under the GPL.