[MP-Ryan]

You guys can really be unabashed haters sometimes

I'm finally playing through Morrowind now, and while I find it is significantly more difficult than Oblivion, I've thoroughly enjoyed both.  Yes, I can see where the Morrowind fanboi-wank club got upset with Oblivion, because it removed some of the more tedious aspects and streamlined the gameplay, but neither is a bad game.  Yes, Oblivion made the game generally less complicated and more accessible to a broader base, but I won't call that a bad thing.  Personally, I LIKE FPS-RPG hybrids, and I'd like to see more of them.  System Shock 2 still ranks on my list as best FPS-RPG hybrid ever made for gameplay mechanics, and ranks second next to Deus Ex on my overall list.  The worst thing about TES 3 and 4 (and their respective expansions) is the painful agony of the leveling system... though at least Morrowind lets you train as much as you want.  And while the engine isn't the best in a game world (I'm looking at Source, here), it isn't all that terrible either.

And again, the hate for Fallout 3?  OK, I'll admit, it wasn't nearly as good (IMHO) as all the reviews made it out to be.  The world seemed to consist entirely of shades of brown, gray, and green, the quests weren't nearly as compelling as those in other FPS/RPGs, and the characters were flatter than I would have liked, but it still ranks right up there for me.

Thus, I am looking forward to TES:5.  Maybe they'll change the leveling system (though I doubt it).  Hopefully the dialog will be better.  The engine isn't the worst in the world, and there's a 0% chance they'll use anything like Source, so as long as it isn't a step backward I won't mind terribly.  But so far, every TES game I've played has been more fleshed out in plot than its predecessors, improved the gameplay in measurable ways (despite the lamentations of the dinosaurs in the fanbase), and generally set the bar higher.  Here's hoping Skyrim will be more of the same.  Yes, there will be bugs... but I'd rather a game with bugs that will be ultimately fixed either by the developers or a loyal fanbase than a flawless game on Valve's release schedule.  I love Valve, but I'd like to play Episode 3 before I turn 30 and it's really not looking good.

[Topgun]

IMO, the TES games are unplayable without mods. With mods however, they can be amazing.

[General Battuta]

Source is actually a bit of a mess. I think CryEngine 3 is the current best engine in the world. 

[MP-Ryan]

IMO, the TES games are unplayable without mods. With mods however, they can be amazing.

Out of curiosity, which mods?  I've played them with very few mods (the Unofficial Community patches are essential, and I've installed graphical upgrades for Morrowind), none of which induced gameplay changes and found them quite compelling regardless of the leveling system.  It's really my only gripe, and that's because I'm neurotic and simply must have the 5X bonuses.  I much prefer the leveling systems in Mass Effect and Fallout 3 - though I do think a Deus Ex-style skill points system could be compelling too.

Aside from those minor things, I've never found mods were necessary - though there is some damn good community content for Oblivion that adds questlines as good or better than the stock game.

[General Battuta]

Cliff racers made me quit Morrowind.

[MP-Ryan]

Cliff racers made me quit Morrowind.

Enchant longsword with soul trap 1 sec, weakness to magicka (highest you can get depending on enchant points on weapon) and 100% absorb health.  Poof - no more cliff racer problems.  For that matter, a Sword of White Woe (which can be stolen without consequence from a guard tower in Balmora) can get a low-level character through a greater deal of the game.

To be fair, I don't have the patience to stumble around Morrowind for 200+ hours like I did Oblivion - I'll admit to using the UESP Wiki, which is invaluable for gameplay information.  And no, I don't feel even slightly guilty - this game is huge, and work+life+wife=limited gaming time.

Seriously though, you should give it another go.  The scope of this game is enormous.

[Mongoose]

You guys can really be unabashed haters sometimes

I feel like it's safe to take the advice of some of the fellows with a significant side-dish of salt, since they often seem to take hyper-criticism to frightening new levels.

[X3N0-Life-Form]

Cliff racers made me quit Morrowind.

That, and Vivec.

[Grizzly]

IMO, the TES games are unplayable without mods. With mods however, they can be amazing.

Out of curiosity, which mods?  I've played them with very few mods (the Unofficial Community patches are essential, and I've installed graphical upgrades for Morrowind), none of which induced gameplay changes and found them quite compelling regardless of the leveling system.  It's really my only gripe, and that's because I'm neurotic and simply must have the 5X bonuses.  I much prefer the leveling systems in Mass Effect and Fallout 3 - though I do think a Deus Ex-style skill points system could be compelling too.

Aside from those minor things, I've never found mods were necessary - though there is some damn good community content for Oblivion that adds questlines as good or better than the stock game.

There's an XP-levelling mod. It might interest you.

[Ransom]

Nehrim fixes many of Oblivion's problems including the reproducible issue where the game was made by Bethesda

[General Battuta]

Nehrim fixes many of Oblivion's problems including the reproducible issue where the game was made by Bethesda

okay that was pretty good i think i'm going to steal that

[Topgun]

IMO, the TES games are unplayable without mods. With mods however, they can be amazing.

Out of curiosity, which mods?  I've played them with very few mods (the Unofficial Community patches are essential, and I've installed graphical upgrades for Morrowind), none of which induced gameplay changes and found them quite compelling regardless of the leveling system.  It's really my only gripe, and that's because I'm neurotic and simply must have the 5X bonuses.  I much prefer the leveling systems in Mass Effect and Fallout 3 - though I do think a Deus Ex-style skill points system could be compelling too.

Aside from those minor things, I've never found mods were necessary - though there is some damn good community content for Oblivion that adds questlines as good or better than the stock game.

GCD is a MUST. Personally I can't stand the tes leveling system, its counterintuitive and breaks immersion. If you get one mod, get this one.

Tamriel Rebuilt 1 and 2 are good if you want more area to explore.

Magic Icon Border (icon replacer) is another must have. The change is small but its the little things that add to immersion.

Vampire Embrace is great if you like vampires. Vampiric Hunger III is mod for it (a mod for mod), also really good.

The Imperial Legion Badge is another must have if you are going to play the imperial legion quest.

Full Glass Armor again, its the little things that add to immersion. Why would there be glass cuirass and greaves but no helm or gauntlets?

H.E.L.L.U.V.A . Wicked Weapons adds a ridicules amount of weapons to the game, most of them are retextures. Some people don't like mods like this, but I think Morrowind adn TES in general lack weapon variety, so I usually use this mod.

Weathered Signs actually lets you read signs.

Thats all I can think of, Im not including the graphical mods because then it would be too many to list.
Be sure to use wyre mash to install the mods and avoid conflicts.

EDIT Fixed the first link

[Nemesis6]

I can list one essential graphics mod - Qarl's Parallaxed textures.

[starbug]

 Don't know if you guys have heard but Bethesda's community manager Nick Breckon has confirmed that The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is running on an "all new" engine. I just hope it isn't as buggy as thier previous games! I have to say i am happy about this game and am looking forward to it as i loved the elder scroll series

[NGTM-1R]

IMO, the TES games are unplayable without mods. With mods however, they can be amazing.

The majority of community mods add crap superenemies and crap superweapons. You can already break the hell out of the game by proper use of the existing ones. (Five Ebony Arrows of Slaying, goddamit. That's one for every final boss AND a spare.)

I think MP's missing the point however; I don't hate Oblivion for dumbing down the game systems, but rather for being a less interesting and less original take on the concepts. Morrowind had a much more interesting level of detail and thought and creativity to it, whereas Oblivion moved towards generic D&D/Tolkien clone world number infinity.

The plot of Morrowind can basically be described as killing the immediate evils. Dagoth Ur, however, may be correct in his view that he was the betrayed one rather than the betrayer, and the Tribunal Gods who took up the mantle to protect their people from the fickle Daedra have largely lost it by this point as you discover in the Tribunal expansion. Yes, you're doing what needs to be done, but it didn't always need doing. Bloodmoon is lighter on plot than that, but the Raven Rock set is pretty good about giving you an interesting story and some intrigue, and a sense of achievement if you're working for the good guys.

The plot of Oblivion is..."evil god is invading, player crush". The world is more confined, and less interesting overall.

[Topgun]

IMO, the TES games are unplayable without mods. With mods however, they can be amazing.

The majority of community mods add crap superenemies and crap superweapons.

90% of everything sucks. The good mods tend to add difficulty.

[NGTM-1R]

90% of everything sucks. The good mods tend to add difficulty.

What did you think I meant by supercrap enemies? Permanent magicka regeneration and immunity to normal weapons for wizards is not fun, goddammit.

[Ghostavo]

The plot of Oblivion is..."evil god is invading, player crush". The world is more confined, and less interesting overall.

"Evil" god is taking back his own home and the player needs to stop him. Who's evil here?

[NGTM-1R]

"Evil" god is taking back his own home and the player needs to stop him. Who's evil here?

Really.

Because, you know, there's any evidence for that.

At all.

Anywhere.

Somebody got a quote, a citation, something that isn't direct propaganda from the mouths of the Mythic Dawn and therefore suspect? Morrowind actually offered you third-party corroboration so you could take it seriously.

[Ghostavo]

The Mythic Dawn are the only ones who mention Mehrunes Dagon, therefore it's kind of hard to have any references to him. Yet ingame (Oblivion at least) you don't get a quote about who created Nirn.

And since in Lore, the creator of Nirn is identified differently by the various races/cultures, I don't see why that interpretation should be less valid than the others. In fact, to me, it makes more sense since it suggests the entire universe to be created equal, as realms of Oblivion, rather than existing various realms of Oblivion and then an entirely different realm apart from them.