Author Topic: Total size of GTVA armada  (Read 9932 times)

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Offline Marcov

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Total size of GTVA armada
I'm trying to estimate the total size of the # of warships the GTVA has.

Note that this includes NTF ships; you know, before they defected. This will regard the following databases as fully accurate info:

- http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/FreeSpace_2_Terran_Ship_Database
- http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/FreeSpace_2_Vasudan_Ship_Database
- http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/FreeSpace_2_Rebel_Ship_Database#Neo-Terran_Front

Note that I'm not including FS1 ships since we don't know if they were decomissioned or what. (oh noes, well, things like the GTC Oberon were decomissioned. Anyway, whatever, it's included.)

So far, we have for Terrans:

44 X Cruisers (21 Galactic Terran, 23 Neo-Terran)
26 X Corvettes (15 Galactic Terran, 11 Neo-Terran)
20 X Destroyers (10 Galactic Terran, 10 Neo-Terran)
1 X Frigate (NTF Iceni)
1 X Colossus

...totalling 92 ships.

For Vasudans,

13 X Cruisers
15 X Corvettes
8 X Destroyers

...totalling 36 ships.

In all, the GTVA has 128 ships.

Of course, this is most probably not the entire force. I remember Command saying that "at least 6 warships have not been able to engage the Sathanas" or something, making me estimate at, what, several hundred ships (400-800 maybe)?

Also, the fact that a rebel faction (NTF) had 10 destroyers implies that the GTVA fleet is pretty big, on the other of nearly a thousand, or maybe yeah, several hundred, which is the most reasonable estimate.

My guess is that a destroyer leads every battlegroup. Perhaps the Aquitaine and the Psamtik are the newest destroyers, since they've been noted in the techroom (just a speculation, though). Considering the Psamtik is leader of the 13th Vasudan Battlegroup (so the Vasudans have at least 13 battlegroups) I think the Terrans will have that much as well, making the destroyer count to 26. But we've got 28 destroyers in the list, so that means there must be supporting destroyers or something, making me estimate them to be around 40-50.

I'm guessing that each battlegroup a destroyer leads probably 4-5 corvettes, and about 20-30 cruisers, totalling the GTVA ship count to around 600-700.

So I really think the GTVA has around 400-800 ships. All of these info make me believe that.
With the rapid increase of FS fan-made campaigns, we're giving the GTVA a harder time with more violence and genocide.

~FreeSpace: The Battle of Endor (voice dub)~
Part 1/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9K9-Y1JBTE
Part 2/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtQanXDRAXM
Part 3/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBLKYt_oG0

Old (original) videos:
Part 1/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ygskaoUtE
Part 2/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0uoPTksBlI

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
I would think that fleet size would be fairly large, given the pasting that was taken during the Great War.  New Weapons aside, you would still want as many ships as possible to get these beams into battle to fry the shivans with.

A destroyer is a huge ship though, so I could see there being hundreds of cruisers and probably a hundred covettes(given that they are new).  The problem with this is that crusier beams typically suck from a damage standpoint and are the complete reverse of what you would expect cruiser class cannon to be, smaller and more rapid fire than the big daddies.

Rough estimate after all this bullcrap is 1 battlegroup per system, 1 destroyer designated as command per battlegroup, probably 5-8 more as local flight ops platforms and heavy fire support, supplemented by corvettes as they come online probably totalling 20 or more once deployment reaches saturation with dozens(3 or more) of cruisers providing close support on an as needed basis.

Finally, cruisers have become the joke of the game from a cap ship standpoint, except the Lilith. 

Cruisers should be dangerous and hard to kill without bomber support.  Not impossible, but it should take more than a couple passes from a  maxim to cripple one.
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
A) Haven't we had one of these before?

B) Remember Marcov, that the GTVA hasn't committed every fleet at it's disposal to fight the Sathanas. Logistics, their doctrine, and common sense (what's the point in throwing the kitchen sink at the man banging your door if his mates come through the unlocked back door?)

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
My (totally noncanonical) force structure works out like this.

Terran Fleet (17)
Destroyer Battlegroup: 1 destroyer, 2-4 cruisers (older model).
Striking Forces (4 or 5): 2-3 corvettes, 4-5 cruisers. (6-8 ships)
(459-765 ships in service)

Vasudan Battlegroup (25): 1 destroyer, 3 corvettes, cruisers upon assignment (3-7 typical).
(175 to 250 ships in battlegroup service.)

System Defense Force (26)
1 destroyer
2 to 4 four Striking Forces
(338 to 858 ships in SDF service.)

Plus a 10% active reserve for a grand total of 1069 to 2060 ships in service, with the actual number falling around 1200. Another 350 to 500 could be mobilized as war reserves given time and the necessary parts.

This perhaps seems high, but they dropped over 6000 Bakhas (that's 500 squadrons if they're divided up into 12s) on something.
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Offline Mars

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Given the number of ships seen in Freespace 2, and the willingness of Command to throw them to the wind (The GTD Phonecia for instance) I'd say that the GTVA has quite a few of them.

 

Offline Mort

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
I would estimate the whole GTVA fleet is at least several hundred ships bordering on a thousand or maybe even surpassing that number. The GTVA is fairly large after all.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Given the number of ships seen in Freespace 2, and the willingness of Command to throw them to the wind (The GTD Phonecia for instance) I'd say that the GTVA has quite a few of them.
Well to be fair, they needed a vessel that was large enough and had the capacity to be seen as a credible threat to the Shivans for long enough to potentially let the Colossus work its **** (didn't work out too well...), a cruiser would probably have been decimated in a 1/4 of the time and on the planning board may not even have registered as a threat to the Sathanas, making its presence redundant.

 

Offline Marcov

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Quote
B) Remember Marcov, that the GTVA hasn't committed every fleet at it's disposal to fight the Sathanas. Logistics, their doctrine, and common sense (what's the point in throwing the kitchen sink at the man banging your door if his mates come through the unlocked back door?)

Didn't Command order ALL available forces to engage the Sath? Anyway, I think I can agree with you; the GTVA has what, little less than 32 systems? That's fairly large, so probably Command took fleets from only the nearest systems.

If at least 6 warships hadn't gotten it through the nodes, then maybe I'll make a rough estimate of around 100 ships to engage the Sathanas. And that's only from the nearby systems.

So probably around 1,500 would make a reasonable count, on the slightly higher end.

Funny thing is, we haven't even seen a few dozen ships engage in direct combat in any mission in the entire FS canonverse. Well, it'd be less fun to have hundreds of ships to destroy, right?
With the rapid increase of FS fan-made campaigns, we're giving the GTVA a harder time with more violence and genocide.

~FreeSpace: The Battle of Endor (voice dub)~
Part 1/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9K9-Y1JBTE
Part 2/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtQanXDRAXM
Part 3/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBLKYt_oG0

Old (original) videos:
Part 1/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ygskaoUtE
Part 2/4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0uoPTksBlI

 

Offline Vip

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Well, it'd be less fun to have hundreds of ships to destroy, right?

Well, it would definitely fry any PC back then. Remember that FreeSpace 2 was noted for its high requirements when it was released.
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Offline headdie

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Well, it'd be less fun to have hundreds of ships to destroy, right?

Well, it would definitely fry any PC back then. Remember that FreeSpace 2 was noted for its high requirements when it was released.

and the way the retail engine was set up it was very easy to overload it in FRED just trying to set up a good sized battle, High Noon should have had more capships involved, at the least a couple of GTVA destroyers or corvettes supporting the colossus in direct support but to do that would have sent the engine way over its limits of the day

edit:
corrected mission name
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Well we encounter what, the Hateshpet or whatever, the Aquitaine, the Phonecia, the Psamtik, the Messana and the Carthage all in Capella/Gamma Drac space. I may even have missed a destroyer somewhere. Now Gamma Drac was undefended, having only a cruiser patrolling the node as it was supposedly empty, so we have what then. 6 destroyers in or around Capella? And those are only the destroyers that Alpha 1 happens to encounter. I think we can safely assume destroyers are probably at least 6 to a battlegroup. At least in the time of FS2, as the corvette is supposed to be a new unit that will BECOME the foundation of the fleet. But they aren't yet, and cruisers are piss poor, so I'm thinking there has to be ALOT of destroyers in service at the time of FS2
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Offline Mars

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Corvettes are the new cruisers. Essentially.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Well we encounter what, the Hateshpet or whatever, the Aquitaine, the Phonecia, the Psamtik, the Messana and the Carthage all in Capella/Gamma Drac space. I may even have missed a destroyer somewhere. Now Gamma Drac was undefended, having only a cruiser patrolling the node as it was supposedly empty, so we have what then. 6 destroyers in or around Capella? And those are only the destroyers that Alpha 1 happens to encounter. I think we can safely assume destroyers are probably at least 6 to a battlegroup. At least in the time of FS2, as the corvette is supposed to be a new unit that will BECOME the foundation of the fleet. But they aren't yet, and cruisers are piss poor, so I'm thinking there has to be ALOT of destroyers in service at the time of FS2
It stands to reason that additional battle groups were deployed to Capella, so I don't think that all the destroyers encountered over the course of the campaign were part of the 3rd Fleet.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Not impossible, but it should take more than a couple passes from a  maxim to cripple one.

Forget Maxims, just spam Hornets. The Shivans did that to the Trinity and they did a very good job sitting there keeping their secondary fire button jammed down.
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Offline Mobius

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
I base my own (noncanonical, of course) reasoning on ratios. Number of destroyers per fleet: 3. Destroyer to corvette ratio: 1:3-5, corvette to cruiser ratio: c.a. 1:3.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Actually for the GTVA to field a fleet of dozens of destroyers is not unreasonable given the unbelievable wealth of mineral resources in space.
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Offline Liberator

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Indeed, but the crew requirements for a dozen destroyers is 120,000.  Which, if previous estimates are to be believed, is about 1/100 the population of Capella.  Even given the futurisitic setting, I find it hard to believe that that much of the population is devoted to crewing 12 ships.  Much less the miscellaneous smaller ships also with crews in the thousands.

I got it!  CLONES!  Destroyers are crewed by CLONES!  :p
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Offline Droid803

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
Its more that the population of Capella is anomalously low than the fact that the fact that destroyers are crewed by a lot of people.
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Offline Mobius

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
But Capella was supposed to be one of the most densely populated systems, though by "densely populated" sometimes I think of a system with a high planet/moon size to population ratio. If all Capellans lived in a small, relatively livable moon of a planet, evacuating them would have been a nightmare for the GTVA. One billion inhabitants spread throughout various planets and moons is something different. Well, that's a possibility.

Also, we don't know how important the military is for GTVA citizenship, so we don't know how common it is for a citizen to decide to work for the military.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: Total size of GTVA armada
"Densely populated" hints at a large population, but doesn't really imply it.
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