Author Topic: R1 By this summer?  (Read 17640 times)

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Offline NGTM-1R

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How do you think we'd recruit new talent if we did that? You've probably forgotten but for the first few months Diaspora was completely silent. Very few people outside the team knew we even existed. We'd have been quite happy to be silent if we had the entire team to make the game in a reasonable time. We didn't. Our entire sound department with the exception of two (currently inactive) composers consists of people who heard of the project thanks to those videos and screenshots.

Same way Spoon did making WoD. Accept the constraints placed on you by a lack of personnel, aim a little lower, take longer, build it anyways. Recruit quietly if you really, really, have to. It could and has been done.

Regardless, you're not disputing my point. You're disputing why you've done it. Nothing said here actually contradicts that you're leading people on. (If anything it casts you in a worse light than I did since you're leading them on to make them work.)
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Offline joncfc

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I  could have phrased the 'leading on' bit a little better but cheers for the reply Kara

 

Offline newman

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Regardless, you're not disputing my point. You're disputing why you've done it. Nothing said here actually contradicts that you're leading people on. (If anything it casts you in a worse light than I did since you're leading them on to make them work.)

You're basically just arguing for the sake of arguing, grabbing at semantics and pretty much irrelevant points which can be viewed as accurate from a certain POV. Congratulations, they're accurate from that certain POV. Even then the point of "leading on" is wrong because a) we never changed any of the images or videos in post, short of normal video editing when stitching sequences together, so we accurately represented what the game will look like, and b) we never hid the fact that we don't really know how long the game will take - apart from that one time we attempted to give out an eta which was badly miscalculated. Our mistake, so sue us.
Point irrelevant, moving on; since this isn't a commercial project but pretty much a labor of love, we'd much rather do the game exactly the way we want to however long it takes. If we're guilty of the heinous crime of not providing a short bsg fix to random fans the instant they wanted it, so be it - I can live with that. I'd much rather deliver something awesome that took longer, I pretty much hate rushed out games. Since we don't have a marketing department, we don't have to rush anything.
The point is moot, anyway; the art department finished most of what was required (with a few missiles and the main interface still needing work) and the ball's pretty much in other department's fields to get R1 out at this point (This doesn't mean we don't need more hands in the art department, as we still intend to do further releases after r1, and the more people we have the shorter it will take)
Long story short, I do believe we have the right to determine how our hobby project will look and play like and how long will it take on our own. It's openly free and openly doesn't have an ETA. People can see what it will look like and based on all that they can join up or not. If that's leading on, then ok we're leading people on. Personally I'm tired of people who keep complaining that we're not fast enough giving them a free game we clearly owe them. Whoever has complaints, again, sue us or go read a book. We should be done by the time you're done :P

tl;dr - I refer you all to Battuta's post a bit earlier.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 01:30:43 am by newman »
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Shade

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Same way Spoon did making WoD. Accept the constraints placed on you by a lack of personnel, aim a little lower, take longer, build it anyways. Recruit quietly if you really, really, have to. It could and has been done.

There's a problem with that. Namely, WoD relies rather heavily on FS2 and MediaVP assets. As we want Diaspora to be playable by people who don't have FreeSpace 2, or might even never have heard of it, we can't do that. Remember, only the source code is free - The FS2 art assets (including the interface) are all still under copyright.

Then there's the fact that we can't really go for a cartoony look like WoD could and still hit the proper feel and atmosphere of BSG, which means we can't save modeling/texturing time like Spoon could. Now, Spoon managed to make WoD a completely awesome experience, but that doesn't mean those methods would automatically translate well into a BSG-themed mod/TC/game.

And we want to hit the right feel. We'd rather take a lot longer and get it right than do an early release of something that doesn't feel right or doesn't deliver the things we want it to. We could do the latter right now - It's perfectly playable. But it isn't where we want it to be. And no amout of arguing is going to change our minds on that.
Report FS_Open bugs with Mantis  |  Find the latest FS_Open builds Here  |  Interested in FRED? Check out the Wiki's FRED Portal | Diaspora: Website / Forums
"Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ****ing great. 2200 references to entry->index and no idea which is the one that ****ed up" - Karajorma
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." - Niels Bohr
<Cobra|> You play this mission too intelligently.

 

Offline IronForge

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Looks like kara is gettin defensive. Also, he still hasn't admitted he's doing this for the attention and probably likes the epeen his own forum gives for a project he actually doesn't care too much about.
No, seriously, why does he have to flame down anyone who disagrees with him? I'm pretty sure OP didn't start with "HAI KARA WHY AINT THIS DONE YET YOU USELESS PIECE OF ****." 

Basically, whenever someone says something bad about you or something you REALLY don't like, you just call in your old buddies and invoke rule of postcount thinking just cos you're mods and have been here longer, you are above others. If a regular member behaved like you TO you, don't think he'd evade the banhammer for long.

Also instead of completing what was already well on the way (BTRL), you had to start your own, FROM SCRATCH. Come on that old guy is probably gone for good, and he wasn't the only one there. Totally nothing stopping you from calling a majority vote, kicking him out and continuing it. But yea prolly epeen reasons and also maybe you "didn't want to have anything to do with your competitor" but no idea how the powerplay ended there. Too many powerful and egoistic people on one project and it came down with a big frakkin crash I guess. Reminds me of how those 2 old goofs were always fighting back on the Galactica.

O man now I really pissed him off. Gotta run!!!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 02:52:28 am by IronForge »

 

Offline FraktuRe

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lol.
Or something.
There’s nothing like the truth skewed into the mind of the insane.
- Fraktured Reality
The artist formerly known as Cl1nt.

 

Offline karajorma

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I laugh at how wrong IronForge managed to be on almost every line of his post. Even about pissing me off.  :lol:

Only one thing in the entire post is actually worth replying to though.

Also instead of completing what was already well on the way (BTRL), you had to start your own, FROM SCRATCH.

Nope. Not from scratch. That much should have been obvious to anybody. We got a hell of a lot of stuff that was from BtRL. I pointed that out in my last post.



Same way Spoon did making WoD. Accept the constraints placed on you by a lack of personnel, aim a little lower, take longer, build it anyways. Recruit quietly if you really, really, have to. It could and has been done.

It would have taken a lot longer though and it would have cost us a hell of a lot of stuff that in the end we did get from BtRL.

More importantly though it would have resulted in a lower quality game when we did release. We're not doing that just because some people fail to understand that mods do take a lot of time to make and frequently release WIP shots years before they are finished.

Quote
Regardless, you're not disputing my point. You're disputing why you've done it. Nothing said here actually contradicts that you're leading people on. (If anything it casts you in a worse light than I did since you're leading them on to make them work.)

Actually it does. Leading people on has the connotation of us promising things we don't intend to deliver. That's not in the slightest bit true. We've always tried to point out that we are hard pressed to make estimates due to pressures you already should be pretty aware of.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline newman

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lol.

Indeed. Though I liked the early episodes better.
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Shade

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O man now I really pissed him off.

Actually, you made him laugh. Me, too.
Report FS_Open bugs with Mantis  |  Find the latest FS_Open builds Here  |  Interested in FRED? Check out the Wiki's FRED Portal | Diaspora: Website / Forums
"Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ****ing great. 2200 references to entry->index and no idea which is the one that ****ed up" - Karajorma
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." - Niels Bohr
<Cobra|> You play this mission too intelligently.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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How do you think we'd recruit new talent if we did that? You've probably forgotten but for the first few months Diaspora was completely silent. Very few people outside the team knew we even existed. We'd have been quite happy to be silent if we had the entire team to make the game in a reasonable time. We didn't. Our entire sound department with the exception of two (currently inactive) composers consists of people who heard of the project thanks to those videos and screenshots.

Same way Spoon did making WoD. Accept the constraints placed on you by a lack of personnel, aim a little lower, take longer, build it anyways. Recruit quietly if you really, really, have to. It could and has been done.

Regardless, you're not disputing my point. You're disputing why you've done it. Nothing said here actually contradicts that you're leading people on. (If anything it casts you in a worse light than I did since you're leading them on to make them work.)

Did you seriously just ride in on your fixie to tell everyone that projects that are public before release most defs have no cred and should stay underground?  I'm sorry if it makes us try hards but we wouldn't have nearly half our team, myself included, if Diaspora was flying completely under the radar.  I had had enough of BTRL and it was literally on a whim that I bothered to visit HLP and realize there had been a split and that Diaspora existed.  I very much doubt we would even have the resources to ever release without the influx of new members thanks to the promotional material we release. 
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline General Battuta

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How do you think we'd recruit new talent if we did that? You've probably forgotten but for the first few months Diaspora was completely silent. Very few people outside the team knew we even existed. We'd have been quite happy to be silent if we had the entire team to make the game in a reasonable time. We didn't. Our entire sound department with the exception of two (currently inactive) composers consists of people who heard of the project thanks to those videos and screenshots.

Same way Spoon did making WoD. Accept the constraints placed on you by a lack of personnel, aim a little lower, take longer, build it anyways. Recruit quietly if you really, really, have to. It could and has been done.

Regardless, you're not disputing my point. You're disputing why you've done it. Nothing said here actually contradicts that you're leading people on. (If anything it casts you in a worse light than I did since you're leading them on to make them work.)

God, the butthurt

 

Offline General Battuta

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How do you think we'd recruit new talent if we did that? You've probably forgotten but for the first few months Diaspora was completely silent. Very few people outside the team knew we even existed. We'd have been quite happy to be silent if we had the entire team to make the game in a reasonable time. We didn't. Our entire sound department with the exception of two (currently inactive) composers consists of people who heard of the project thanks to those videos and screenshots.

Same way Spoon did making WoD. Accept the constraints placed on you by a lack of personnel, aim a little lower, take longer, build it anyways. Recruit quietly if you really, really, have to. It could and has been done.

So as someone who actually works on a development team with Spoon, this made me laugh and laugh and laugh. Spoon has been happy to get publicity and has recruited a number of modelers and staff members through outreach and previews. He's even asked me to do more publicity so he can get more talent.

What a weird, stupid thing to think about creativity.

 

Offline The E

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Of course, the fact that he chose to do most of his publicity work over IRC did have something to do with this whole "out of nowhere" feel WoD had.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 
<---- Facepalm
I'm reading one of the most useless trolls in history  :lol:

 

Offline joncfc

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<---- Facepalm
I'm reading one of the most useless trolls in history  :lol:

never visited the black mesa forums then....

 

Offline Bilal18

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My god, this is simply put; embarrassing. IronForge, your posts simultaneously make me cringe and gag when I read them. Terrible show, I must say. Please, for the love of god will you grow up and stop being such a spoilt brat, your embarrassing yourself and making me feel ill.

I have been lurking these forums for quite a long time now; I am always overwhelmed and impressed beyond belief when I just browse through he screenshots etc. (excuse me for sounding all gushing here) I have always found it to be so remarkable how humans creativity has no bounds, in the pursuit of a media which expresses their creative outlets coupled with their interests. This project to me is a dream come true to say the least, when i finished watching BSG, I needed more, I wanted to be immersed in an experience where it was me flying along side the bucket and the beast. I almost couldn't believe it when I found out about diaspora! This has to be one of the most ambitious, beautifully awe inspiring projects I have ever followed.

It upsets me to see you self-absorbed, selfish, i-think-the-team-owes-me-this-project, trash talk the devs
And try to make them feel bad about something they shouldn't. Honestly, do you people have nothing else to do to pass the time?

Devs, your doing a fantastic job, you take all the time you need. Dont allow these imbeciles to bait your tempers. They do NOT speak for the rest of us.

So say we all.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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My god, this is simply put; embarrassing. IronForge, your posts simultaneously make me cringe and gag when I read them. Terrible show, I must say. Please, for the love of god will you grow up and stop being such a spoilt brat, your embarrassing yourself and making me feel ill.

I have been lurking these forums for quite a long time now; I am always overwhelmed and impressed beyond belief when I just browse through he screenshots etc. (excuse me for sounding all gushing here) I have always found it to be so remarkable how humans creativity has no bounds, in the pursuit of a media which expresses their creative outlets coupled with their interests. This project to me is a dream come true to say the least, when i finished watching BSG, I needed more, I wanted to be immersed in an experience where it was me flying along side the bucket and the beast. I almost couldn't believe it when I found out about diaspora! This has to be one of the most ambitious, beautifully awe inspiring projects I have ever followed.

It upsets me to see you self-absorbed, selfish, i-think-the-team-owes-me-this-project, trash talk the devs
And try to make them feel bad about something they shouldn't. Honestly, do you people have nothing else to do to pass the time?

Devs, your doing a fantastic job, you take all the time you need. Dont allow these imbeciles to bait your tempers. They do NOT speak for the rest of us.

So say we all.

Couldn't agree more, but I'd watch your tone a bit, just so you don't get done for flaming. I was on the brink of posting something alone similar lines a couple of pages back, I decided against it, seeing as I used "spoiled little sh*t" more than a few times. :)

 

Offline karajorma

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If I banned you for flaming I would have to ban Ironforge too and I was having far too much fun watching his Epic Fail to do that. :D

Just leave him alone in his wrongness for now.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Good show gents =)

 
Well you can see by my post count that I do not say much on HLP.  I do read every one of the posts for this project and FotG though.  I can tell you that I have to agree with Buchshee.   I am not going to go further on that soap box though.

What I am going to do is ask a simple question of the devs;

For someone who can't help you guys in any technical way what so ever, but wants to help some how, what type of things could we do to assist you guys?