[heretic]

I come here to get away from all the craziness and spam from my site.

Within the past few weeks I'm seeing less and less serious modding/rendering topics and more....idiocy.


Please keep this the way it was before, where things like "TaS" and others didn't seem like it'd ever happen. Now I see more "OT" or spam topics in this main HLP forum than modding conversations.


just my 2 credits.


EDIT:

I want to show examples...

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,7630.0.html


http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,7604.0.html

[Zeronet]

and more and more on warpstorm i see more serio, hmm wait no i dont!. The modding season is not for a few weeks, be patient young jedi.

[Fineus]

I'm interested to see what everyone else has to say about this. Please don't turn it into spam/flame wars. I for one agree with heretic but have tried to be more forgiving with what kinda topics are ok and what are not... lets see where this goes...

[Zeronet]

Its been more enjoyable than usual, i mean some of it is semi spam, but their is always a clear conversation and not mindless spammage.

[Corsair]

Originally posted by Zeronet
Its been more enjoyable than usual, i mean some of it is semi spam, but their is always a clear conversation and not mindless spammage.

I agree. Even though we may not be talking about totally relevent stuff, we at least aren't completely spamming and so therefore its ok. I think.

[Stryke 9]

As online communities age, they tend to take a turn for the worse. 'S okay, it's just that we have fewer interesting things to talk about- there are only so many good arguments, threads, whines, etc. one can have online. In fact, I've seen nearly all the main stuff on here many times before, in almost the exact same form. It's a natural, gradual progression (though I agree that it's pertially because summer vacation has yet to hit for many of us), and eventually the forum will completely come apart at the seams, and likely go the way of the VBB, and so many others. But I'd say we're still good for another year, at the very least.

[heretic]

Stryke 9, I'm going to try and say this in a constructive way- I'm really trying..honest.

but you are not helping things at all. 99% of your posts are meaningless. They contribute nothing. This forum, provided it stays true to its aims, and the admins run it like they have, will last a long time.

I've noticed people spamming WS lately, and I noticed they stopped, because I myself didn't like them posting so much spam here.

but I'm not going to pick anything else apart. anyone has a problem with my comment PM me.

[Stryke 9]

Hah. I used to be idealistic too. In fact, I used to lead the major crusades against spam. Guess what- all the forums I'd secured died, all the ones I went to period died, the communities broke up, I never saw the members again. I went to new ones, exactly the same climactic debates occurred, roughly the same community got set up- and most of THOSE are dying, if not already gone. Your 'content' is meaningless to me- short of the models, nothing exists here I have not seen a dozen times before, with these precise positions taken, these precise concessions made, these precise ideas submitted and concluded. Your 'content' is little more than a dull, hollow mockery of thought and debate- nobody will ever open their minds to a thread, and months from now likely a new topic, exactly the same, will be opened, and the endless cliched argument rehashed, in which few express ideas of their own and none draw any new conclusions. Your 'content' is nothing, transitory and shallow as anything else online- in forums, only 'spam' is forever. The irrelevant post, the chaotic wit, the blithering blather- these are what communities are founded on; they are the brick, mortar, and roofing that houses forum mentality. From spam this forum, as all forums, came, and to spam it shall return, in the accelerated entropic spiral of the internet. And deny it as you wish, you are little more than another breed of spammer.

You are free to disbelieve me as you wish. But I have seen the future of the community, and it is the past. Yesterday and yesterday and yesterday- Shakespeare never learned this about human nature. In the end, you too will see.

[heretic]

seen the past? dude, I've run a website for over 2 years. I've been involved in others since 1995. don't lecture me on how to run a site, or on the dynamics of website traffic.

The website/forum is all based on how the board is admined. the VBB did just fine until about 8 months ago.

Your 'content' is meaningless to me- short of the models, nothing exists here I have not seen a dozen times before, with these precise positions taken, these precise concessions made, these precise ideas submitted and concluded. Your 'content' is little more than a dull, hollow mockery of thought and debate- nobody will ever open their minds to a thread, and months from now likely a new topic, exactly the same, will be opened, and the endless cliched argument rehashed, in which few express ideas of their own and none draw any new conclusions.

WRONG. content is only rehashed when all conversation has failed. The continuing projects, developing genere of the game industry, increasing popularity of 3D rendering programs, plus a superb moderation system will provide continually new conversation. If such content is meaningless to you, then get the **** off this board.

in forums, only 'spam' is forever. The irrelevant post, the chaotic wit, the blithering blather- these are what communities are founded on; they are the brick, mortar, and roofing that houses forum mentality.

if you consider spam to be brick and mortar, than your house is going to crumble. Rampant spam is what ruined the VBB. failing to keep irrelevant topics under control will result in YOUR degredatio of the board, when the aim is lost. Your vision is one based on NO MODERATION, and the outcome.


Do not try to argue points with me unless you plan on going the distance.

[Shrike]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
The irrelevant post, the chaotic wit, the blithering blather- these are what communities are founded on; they are the brick, mortar, and roofing that houses forum mentality.

Spam is uneeded and unwanted.... You seem to be of the opinion that off-topic is spam.  Quite untrue in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with offtopic, but spamming simply because you can is not the 'foundation' of a board.  Everyone does it at some time or another, but that doesn't make it a requirement for a functioning BB.  You cannot be serious or on-topic at all times.

[Styxx]

Well, there are lots of topics with good content out there - I check the main page and see several models and renders, and on the other forums there are several mods running with constant updates... People get their doubts answered without flaming, and anyone that wants help modding or rendering gets it.

Just because we're fooling around a bit more it doesn't mean we're degrading into a spam-forum.

[Stryke 9]

"Points"? Ah, I remember that sort of thing, too. You will not change your mind because of what I say- nobody ever "wins" or "loses" online. There is no change of ideas. You will continue on your foolish way, regardless of what I say or do, and it will be to my infinite amusement when, a few years from now, I find you in much the quandary I was in. When it comes, you will know it, and there will be only one road to go down, if you do not leave online life forever. 1995? Don't make me laugh- I've been using computers since I was 4, I was among the first to log on when the internet became public and popular. I have seen what happens, and if you have not learned that in your seven years online, your insulated online existence will be violated soon enough. Rant and curse at me all you wish- admins or no admins, all things fail, and those made of such insubtantial things as information fall all the faster. Lead your little campaign against "spam", boy- the harder one fights, the greater one's fall when the fight is over, and, like the air, the "spammers" as a group have felt no effect. As if we were unified- we are, I suppose, in a strange way. Hundreds of us, the 'survivors' of forums lost, who find new ones, only to feel one's interest ebb and to see the death of the community in the destruction of one's own, to grow tired of the same incoherent, rehashed rants about religion, politics, et al. This forum comes to a fraction of the ones I have seen, an infinite number of times, and it will never reach the quasi-intellectual heights of some, those great, free thinking forums which survive- if only for a year or two longer than otherwise. We take no interest in your petty arguments- I have had my own, in my time. I am here for the modeling community, the core that will probably last long after the community at large, including yourself, to become a semi-robotic, xenophobic, joyless, obsessive creation, locked away on some obscure user forum or sequestered to the IRC or ICQ half-chatrooms. And I spam- half to pass the time, half to forget what I see of this forum's fate.

[Eishtmo]

Number One Rule Of Internet Forums:

All threads tend toward off-topicness.

It's the law.

[Shrike]

If you're so sure we'll fail, **** off.  Seriously.

[Stryke 9]

Shrike: Off-topic is not spam, and I never said it was. Relevance has little application on actual contribution to forum. On-topic threads are, in effect, little different from spam in themselves. It is, in many cases, the same thing. How you define "spam" may be the issue here- if a post is on-topic, it need not be productive (so few posts ever are), and if a post is still relevant, most likely it still had the same motivation behind it as most spam- people post to post, and it makes little difference whether the post pretends to further a thread or not. Almost no posts ever do, and these are invariably the sorts of posts everyone would hate doing all the time. Do you know what the most productive things a forum can do are? Tech support and advising newbies on their questions- the stupider the better. All else is fluff, is spam, and any line drawn beyond that is sheer self-righteousness or folly. A religion thread is, in the end, about as significant as a thread about my toenail clippings, or about Vasudans wuv Headz- all are merely entertainment, in the same way the news is.

And I'm not saying you'll "fail", necessarily. While the forum is still alive, it is worth attending. But do you really think it will last forever? Do you think, even a dozen years from now, there will still be a HLP, that will not have exhausted its resources and topic one bit? Half a dozen? Three years?

Online communities are good things, there is no question about that. I have gained most of what I know about modeling from here myself. But they do not last and I for one am tired of keeping up the illusion that they do.

[heretic]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
"Points"? Ah, I remember that sort of thing, too. You will not change your mind because of what I say- nobody ever "wins" or "loses" online. There is no change of ideas. You will continue on your foolish way, regardless of what I say or do, and it will be to my infinite amusement when, a few years from now, I find you in much the quandary I was in. When it comes, you will know it, and there will be only one road to go down, if you do not leave online life forever. 1995? Don't make me laugh- I've been using computers since I was 4, I was among the first to log on when the internet became public and popular.

computers and the internet are not the same thing. I'm curious to how many forums/bbs's you were on before the internet

I could care less about how long, or what you know about computers. Please show me the website you run. I'll tell you about mine.. better yet, I'll show you.

http://www.warpstorm.com

The reason it's like it is today is because we keep things fresh. oh, and those forums, make them 2x as large, because we had a purge last year. If you don't have any expierece in running a large web site, then please keep your mouth shut.

I have seen what happens, and if you have not learned that in your seven years online,

yeah, I'm sorry that I didn't join the ARPAnet.

your insulated online existence will be violated soon enough. Rant and curse at me all you wish- admins or no admins, all things fail, and those made of such insubtantial things as information fall all the faster. Lead your little campaign against "spam", boy- the harder one fights, the greater one's fall when the fight is over, and, like the air, the "spammers" as a group have felt no effect.

ok, a few things- I don't care for spam. I feel that spam can be constructive. I also feel that there's a place for spam, and it's not here. God, before you ****ing start to judge me, you should ****ing know me. By stating that I'm "isolated" and assuming that in 7 years I don't know what I'm talking about, then you have shown your ignorance.

Also, are you telling me, and the board, that should they crack down ron the spam, that you would fight it? Also stating the fact that you are here for the sole purpose of posting inane and meaningless topics that contribute nothing? because that is what I am reading from your post.

 As if we were unified- we are, I suppose, in a strange way. Hundreds of us, the 'survivors' of forums lost, who find new ones, only to feel one's interest ebb and to see the death of the community in the destruction of one's own, to grow tired of the same incoherent, rehashed rants about religion, politics, et al.
This forum comes to a fraction of the ones I have seen, an infinite number of times, and it will never reach the quasi-intellectual heights of some, those great, free thinking forums which survive- if only for a year or two longer than otherwise.

wtf are you on? crack? God, you might as well put a sandwich board on you and stand on a street corner. THE END IS NEAH! THE END IS NEAH! REPENT! FOR THE SPAM IS NEIGH!

We take no interest in your petty arguments- I have had my own, in my time.

We? who's we? As to intrest, I assure you that this has perked intrest.

 I am here for the modeling community, the core that will probably last long after the community at large, including yourself, to become a semi-robotic, xenophobic, joyless, obsessive creation, locked away on some obscure user forum or sequestered to the IRC or ICQ half-chatrooms. And I spam- half to pass the time, half to forget what I see of this forum's fate.

For the modding community? what are you modding? what have you rendered? now you're saying that the core WILL last? didn't you state earlier that modding won't last?

if you think the forum will fail, then leave... because I'd hate for you to see your folly.

you really have no idea what the **** you are talking about. You have shown me no expierence, and all I have see is some cleverly placed rhetoric.

[Stryke 9]

My website? Taken down after 4 years- the multiple communities it served died, adn it was too expensive to maintain the rahter massive structure. I'm in the process of making a new one, for interests I have no interest in relating to you.
http://www.wpierce.com/wlp/mainpage.html

What have I created? I tend to compulsively conserve online space, but this should serve your insolent question:


If you wish for more, I have a few things on stock. Whether I feel the need to respond to your rudeness is another matter altogether.

[heretic]

so, you take what you have failed with, and try to apply the shortcomings of your site to everywhere? I guess if everyone could predict the future then there would be no internet.


basically I suggest if you feel this community will die, then don't post here. In the meantime I look forward to topics worth reading that having two Rifts.

[Stryke 9]

As for the rest.

Ah, but this is spam, heretic. Can't you tell? So's most of what you are posting. I never said the modding community would collapse- you didn't read my post. The heart of a community, if it is strong, usually survives, but it's not a pretty sight, and it will be something utterly different, lacking the sort of support and page HLP has, a community that occasionally replenishes yourself, and less tenacious members such as yourself.

[Stryke 9]

Wrong. My page meant little to me- it was a minor part of a greater project, which is still more or less alive. I was applying the dozen or so forums much like this one I have seen.

And you still are not paying any attention at all. I don't know what happened to common courtesy, but at this point I may well start anticipating what you have to say and refuting it, since you seem to have so little regard for what others have to say that you only read so much as will fuel your little masturbatory fury.