[Qent]

Read the report again. He was very discreet. Problems only arose when his name was leaked.

Why was it leaked? And for what? And now a young person has his own future destroyed, but that's okay because he was asking for it, for being such a baby cry, right?

The article is obviously sympathetic to him. Even supposing that it reported all the facts truthfully, it would paint his actions in the best possible light and his school's in the worst, which I glossed over in my first post. In fact I hadn't read the article carefully, but after reading descriptions of exactly what happened to him in retaliation, I am even more convinced that much more is being hidden here.

He might even have leaked his own name to create just this situation.

[General Battuta]

Man, all the **** going on here is just human nature. You can change the labels on the groups all you like. Straights, gays, Christians, atheists, majority, minority, Captain Hammer, Dr. Horrible, doesn't matter. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

[mjn.mixael]

Yeah, a young student was just thrown out of his life for trying to get his school to obey the constitution, but I am the problem here.

No, sorry, you are suffering heavily from the Dunning–Kruger effect, it's the only way I can even square it.

Yup. You want to be respected? Then stop disrespecting me. That's how the world works, regardless of how right or wrong that is. Anyone who blindly generalizes and discriminates based on that is the problem.

Exactly how? Please enlighten the audience how your situation is comparable.

Dude, I get yelled at, poked fun at, all that good stuff. I even got 'tossed' off a campus (AKA the admins asked me to leave because my presence was causing the students to make a scene... note, that day I was simply having a Bible study with some students.)

Why not? Are you unable to differentiate between "american atheism" and "atheists"? One is a sociological phenomena, the other is actual people. You can speak to people.

No idea what you are trying to say here.. seems like you are contradicting yourself. Do you want me to just consider you a jerk like the some of the atheists I've met on campus? I can do that if you wish... However I prefer not to generalize all atheists under the same category.

It's your prerrogative, you are free to care zero. You should understand that others have their own prerrogatives, and their own reasons.

Heh, of course would like a rule that allows you to hypocritically shut me up. If you are a 'real' atheist then the 'In God we trust.' on your money should bother you...

Man, all the **** going on here is just human nature. You can change the labels on the groups all you like. Straights, gays, Christians, atheists, majority, minority, Captain Hammer, Dr. Horrible, doesn't matter. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

Also this ^. 'Christianity' or 'Atheism' are not the disease, blind hatred is. Blind hatred is fueled by generalizations.

[Luis Dias]

Man, all the **** going on here is just human nature. You can change the labels on the groups all you like. Straights, gays, Christians, atheists, majority, minority, Captain Hammer, Dr. Horrible, doesn't matter. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

Quote me an example of this kind of situation happening in a non-religious context and I'll agree with you that the solution involves nuking the entire planet.

[General Battuta]

Man, all the **** going on here is just human nature. You can change the labels on the groups all you like. Straights, gays, Christians, atheists, majority, minority, Captain Hammer, Dr. Horrible, doesn't matter. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

Quote me an example of this kind of situation happening in a non-religious context and I'll agree with you that the solution involves nuking the entire planet.

Try being gay and going to prom

[Luis Dias]

Yeah, a young student was just thrown out of his life for trying to get his school to obey the constitution, but I am the problem here.

No, sorry, you are suffering heavily from the Dunning–Kruger effect, it's the only way I can even square it.

Yup. You want to be respected? Then stop disrespecting me. That's how the world works, regardless of how right or wrong that is. Anyone who blindly generalizes and discriminates based on that is the problem.

See? This is the problem right here. If I criticize religion, you take it offensively.

If I criticized your political position, would you take it offensively? If I criticized one of your works for its inherent flaws, would you take it personally?

No. But religion is different. People can't criticize religion, because it's offensive. The hell with that silly idea.

Exactly how? Please enlighten the audience how your situation is comparable.

Dude, I get yelled at, poked fun at, all that good stuff. I even got 'tossed' off a campus (AKA the admins asked me to leave because my presence was causing the students to make a scene... note, that day I was simply having a Bible study with some students.)

Were you thrown out of your own house because your parents found out about it? I know a good number of similar cases to this one.

I am poked fun by many silly things I happen to believe or think. Even in this forum. I take it as part of the game. Were you ever called unamercan because of your beliefs? Should I quote you Bush senior's thought about atheists and their unamerican stance? Do you even have the gall to still compare the situations?

It's your prerrogative, you are free to care zero. You should understand that others have their own prerrogatives, and their own reasons.

Heh, of course would like a rule that allows you to hypocritically shut me up. If you are a 'real' atheist then the 'In God we trust.' on your money should bother you...

Except that it is not "you" that I'm shutting up. You are not christianity, you are a person. Am I shutting you up if I say that "In God we Trust" is a silly proclamation that has no right of being printed in money, constitutionally? Am I even lying?

What's so hipocritical about being so clear on this subject? I say, preach as you will and as much as you want, it's your prerrogative. Just accept that the state has and shouldn't have anything to say about religion, and we'll be just fine. If you don't, you are clearly saying that the country is "made" only for believers, and the schools are actually for christians only (and the atheists should just pretend they are christians too and shut up, just like the stupid minority they are).

Also this ^. 'Christianity' or 'Atheism' are not the disease, blind hatred is. Blind hatred is fueled by generalizations.

What a cop out.

[Luis Dias]

Man, all the **** going on here is just human nature. You can change the labels on the groups all you like. Straights, gays, Christians, atheists, majority, minority, Captain Hammer, Dr. Horrible, doesn't matter. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

Quote me an example of this kind of situation happening in a non-religious context and I'll agree with you that the solution involves nuking the entire planet.

Try being gay and going to prom

As if there isn't a correlation there.

[General Battuta]

Man, all the **** going on here is just human nature. You can change the labels on the groups all you like. Straights, gays, Christians, atheists, majority, minority, Captain Hammer, Dr. Horrible, doesn't matter. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

Quote me an example of this kind of situation happening in a non-religious context and I'll agree with you that the solution involves nuking the entire planet.

Try being gay and going to prom

As if there isn't a correlation there.

ding ding ding, starting to get it

take the next step

[Luis Dias]

Yeah, ok, I'll be direct: christianity is homophobic too!


EDIT: In a more serious note, and taking your example, shouldn't we also agree then that "homophobia" isn't a problem as well?

Or should we just toss it into the garbage of "human traits" and do nothing about it too?

[mjn.mixael]

 

Luis Dias... you prove my points. Thank you.

[Luis Dias]

Luis Dias... you prove my points. Thank you.

Read my edit. What Battuta is suggesting is that we shouldn't do anything about this discrimination because homossexuals are also discriminated, thus it's something that just happens 'coz we're humans.

We should stick to modelling ships in freespace and belittle anyone who dares doing something about what they believe.

[Turambar]

Honestly I don't think discussions with imaginary friends belong anywhere near academic graduation ceremonies.

I really have trouble respecting religious people because their beliefs are so damn silly.

[General Battuta]

Read my edit. What Battuta is suggesting is that we shouldn't do anything about this discrimination because homossexuals are also discriminated, thus it's something that just happens 'coz we're humans.

You are smart enough to know this isn't what I'm saying. Put the effort in.

[Flipside]

I think the point trying to be made is that if it these people weren't using their own version of 'Christianity' to persecute that which they fear, they'd use something else.

In fairness, Christianity does preach homophobic beliefs in many cases, but then, so do most religions. The problem is that people fear what is different, and religion is simply a way to institutionalize it.

[Vertigo 7]

i don't think hes suggesting any such thing. What i gather is this guy was trying to be an attention whore and it backfired on him.

I'm an atheist, I don't care what other people believe... if they wanna say a prayer for me, go ahead, its their time they're wasting. Do I care if i hear it? newp. Sure its not fun, exciting, whatever... but it sure as hell doesn't cause me any harm.

Now... I could be an ass and start a scene and demanding the people stop their bible hurdling and stfu. but nope, not gonna do it... Know why? Cuz i'm tolerant of what other people believe. My opinion doesn't have to be the same opinion everyone else has and I'm not gonna be an ass just cuz i think differently.

[Flipside]

But when those beliefs impinge on someone else's right to believe something different, it becomes an issue. I agree that complaining about the prayer was a contentious issue, but there's no point jumping to conclusions about what this guy 'might' or 'might not' have done, we seem to be doing a lot of judging on what we think his intentions were. How does that make us any different?

[Luis Dias]

You are smart enough to know this isn't what I'm saying. Put the effort in.

You are saying that Xtianity should have a free pass that other systems of ideas never had.

Would this have happened in a communistic context, everyone would blame communism and say "1984". And rightly so.

But because the context is christian, people build up a blind spot and say "no, not xtianity, humans are the problem". Which is "true", in the most vague, meaningless and useless sense.


Yeah, I can envision a world where people are not treated like this because they dare have a political voice and try to do the right thing. Even a mostly christian one. But I also think that religious people should look into themselves and wonder if it isn't their own tribalism regarding their own religion which is creating so much pain here. Because it is.

[Vertigo 7]

fair enough. I meant to add as well, that what the community did to this guy was wrong, weither he intended for a reaction or not. Here again, another example of the "holy" christian's persicuting someone for believing differently. I think they may have missed a few of those lessons they were sposed to learn in sunday school.

[Rodo]

Dammit, so glad I don't live there.

[Nohiki]

I'm an atheist, but i am not as much tolerant, i rather don't give a damn to what deity whoever believes in To paraphrase Firefly - You are welcome in my house, God ain't - As long as you do not force anyone to believe the same as YOU do, it's fine.