[beatspete]

X-Files Addict, how wrong you are.  Vasudan bombers are much more manuverable than terran ones, and although this wouldnt seem a very important feature of a bomber, a lot of people recon it is.
The Vasudan bombers are better.  Even though they have not the strongest of hulls, which i think is a bit more important than dodging the odd laser, especially when flying in a straight at an enemy capship for 10 seconds.

pete

[Kabal]

if you were to read my earlier post, you would have realized that i have never flew a vasudan bomber before, except on the sath mission. I like to judge big ships anyways.

[Hippo]

In the mission after Bearbaiting, for a Sath. it should have a lot more than 5 wings of basilisks on board, it could have liliths or molouchs on board... but you only fight 5 waves of basilisks, why not more to do in the mission instead of bomb, rearm, lock, bomb, rearm ect?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Hippo
In the mission after Bearbaiting, for a Sath. it should have a lot more than 5 wings of basilisks on board, it could have liliths or molouchs on board... but you only fight 5 waves of basilisks, why not more to do in the mission instead of bomb, rearm, lock, bomb, rearm ect?

You could try disabling the sath's engines. Has anyone ever tried that?

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by karajorma


You could try disabling the sath's engines. Has anyone ever tried that?

Have you?
Do you realize how many subsystems you have to knock out in order to disable a Sathanas?

[Redfang]

Originally posted by Hippo
In the mission after Bearbaiting, for a Sath. it should have a lot more than 5 wings of basilisks on board, it could have liliths or molouchs on board...

 
Molochs... but seriously, it maybe could have a few Liliths. But lots fighters and bombers are better than a few cruisers.
 
And also, if it would launch more fighters, it would be too hard, and then you'd have more wingmates... I like that the way it is now.

[Shiva Archon]

Originally posted by Kabal
LMAO

LMAO

LMAO

Please, the "Big C" couldn't take a damned Cain.

I would set this up in FRED2, but somehow don't really feel like wasting the time to watch the colossus blow a Cain away in 2 seconds.  

The only beam weapons that can do appreciable damage to the Col are BGreens and up.  The point of the Col is to jump it into the middle of an enemy battlegroup.  With huge beams on all sides, it could tear apart any enemy fleet formation, especially since only destroyers have the ablility to damage it (except Liliths).

I'm sorry if you think the Col is worthless because it can't take a Sathanas 1 on 1 in frontal combat, but you are completely wrong about its usefulness.  Apparently, Kabal thinks ability to take out 5 Orions without losing a single ship is worthless.  I hope you're never put in a position to make any kind of tactical decision.

Originally posted by LtNarol
The Colossus is a piece of garbage compared to a group of Deimos.

Right, if "group" is about a dozen.  

EDIT:  Grammar and tags

[karajorma]

Originally posted by killadonuts

Have you?
Do you realize how many subsystems you have to knock out in order to disable a Sathanas?

Nope. I haven`t tried it. That's why I asked I think the sath has 6 engine sub systems. Wouldn`t be easy to take out but then neither is it easy to take out 4 BFReds 2 flack guns and a rear beam cannon yet some people have done it.

[EdrickV]

Oddly enough, disabling the Sath so you can destroy stuff sounds familliar to me. Think I might have tried doing that one time when I got really frustrated with it leaving before I could take out enough turrets. Don't recall if I managed it though. (I do recall getting the kill for the Lucifer in FS1 though. )

[LtNarol]

Give me 5 Orions and i'll kill your dumb Colossus for you, 12 Deimos will work even better.  Either option takes less time to build and the Deimos definitely require far less crew.  The only thing i would pit a Colossus against is a few cruisers or some other smaller vessel one on one.  The Colossus is a sitting duck with its speed and maneuverablilty; and its weapons dont make up for that disadvantage when you look at the firing arcs.

[karajorma]

What's with this blind hatred of the colossus Narol? Did it's designer run over your dog or something?

Your comments about the colossus only being able to take on single capships or cruisers is just sheer nonsense.
The Colossus is quite capable of taking on 2 or 3 destroyers at once. Sure if you load the battle in the destroyers favour then 5 orions might be able to take it out but if you load the battle in the colossus's favour it could probably take on more than 5.
 
I`m not saying that the colossus is a great ship. It's undergunned and slow but it is capable of taking on far more than it's detractors claim.

[beatspete]

Originally posted by LtNarol
Give me 5 Orions and i'll kill your dumb Colossus for you

I've seen it almost take down 5 destroyers, a hecate, hasheptuth, and a demon all destroyed, only another haseptuth and a ravana were left and they had about 15% hull.
The best thing about the collosus was that it was the only ship with BF greens (unless it had its crap loadout of the mission it got destroyed), not as good as BF reds, but still a hell of a lot better than anything else the GTVA had.  Even with 5 hecates, you only have 5 Bgreens between them, and half the hitpoints.

pete

[LtNarol]

Hecates are terrible, if you ever take the time to analyze their firing arcs, they are very week in every direction.  Orions on the other hand have very powerful broadsides and therefore they have a chance against a Colossus.  5 Orions using default weapons can take down a Colossus with its default weapons.  Of course, this does mean some careful waypoint paths since you can't just throw 5 Orions against a Colossus and expect to win.  You use the superior maneuverablitly against the damn thing.

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by karajorma


Nope. I haven`t tried it. That's why I asked I think the sath has 6 engine sub systems. Wouldn`t be easy to take out but then neither is it easy to take out 4 BFReds 2 flack guns and a rear beam cannon yet some people have done it.

The biggest problem is time.
It takes a long time (without cheating) to destroy just one of the engines.
The Colossus is similar to this but I believe it can be disabled faster than the Juggernaut

[karajorma]

I`ve had a look at the mission itself and interestingly there isn't anything built into the code to stop you doing it. The Sath leaps out when it reaches a certain point. If you did manage to take out the engines the game wouldn`t know what to do and would sit there while you destroy the sath.
 Of course you wouldn`t be able to complete the mission cause the arrival of the demon class destroyer is triggered by the departure of the sathanas not it's destruction but still it's worth a try

[LtNarol]

it'd easy to change the operator so that the Demon comes in when the Sathanas has departed -or- is destroyed.

[karajorma]

I know but that's cheating!!!!

Seriously though if anyone can disable the sath it would be worth changing but the question is can anyone actually do it?

[LtNarol]

difficult to do with the Bakha...with a Myrmidon and a lot of support ships perhaps...or if you're really good with a Sekhmet.

[Redfang]

Karajorma, do you mean in that bearbaiting mission has someone disabled Sathanas? If you mean that mission, I think that no-one has managed to disable it because there isn't too much time. That might even be impossible (or almost ), as those engines can take beating and there are lots of them.
 
But in some other mission someone surely has disabled a Sathanas.
 
And about Colossus, it's a ship with most turrets in the game... though small ships like cruisers and fighters and others have most turrets per m^2.
 

Originally posted by Shiva Archon
The only beam weapons that can do appreciable damage to the Col are BGreens and up.  The point of the Col is to jump it into the middle of an enemy battlegroup.  With huge beams on all sides, it could tear apart any enemy fleet formation, especially since only destroyers have the ablility to damage it (except Liliths).

I'm sorry if you think the Col is worthless because it can't take a Sathanas 1 on 1 in frontal combat, but you are completely wrong about its usefulness.  Apparently, Kabal thinks ability to take out 5 Orions without losing a single ship is worthless.  I hope you're never put in a position to make any kind of tactical decision.

 
Very true, I haven't thought about that. A Sathanas can take single ship very fast, or many if they're in front of the juggernaut, but Colosssus is better against lots of ships.

[CP5670]

For those who think the Colossus can fall to a wing of fighters or bombers, remember that it theoretically has a ton of fighter wings onboard. I bet these were all used when the ship entered Polaris and blasted away at NTF units there, and the only reasons that they did not show up in any missions in the game were the engine limitations.