[The E]

Well, technically speaking, mothballing ships in space stops a lot of the decay you'd see on Earth. However, given that there aren't any GW-era ships left mothballed (mostly because they were scrapped), it's a moot point.

[Ypoknons]

The UEF isn't going to beat the GTVA through brute military strength anyways. Beams, more ships, these things the GTVA can counter, easily. There'll b e something else.

[Rodo]

secret projects are secret 

[MatthTheGeek]

The UEF isn't going to beat the GTVA through brute military strength anyways. Beams, more ships, these things the GTVA can counter, easily.

Nope, but the UEF is at a point where it needs to gain as much time as possible for the Elder's project. Every ship counts.

[JerichoDeath]

Now that you mention it, the Sanctuary does have one advantage. It was designed to be self sufficient and sustain a lot of people in cold sleep.
If they switch those systems off, they got a lot of excess energy and if they completely remove them, they also got a lot of free space (no pun intended) inside the ship. At the very least this should enable them to put in loads of massdrivers, even if they can't outfit it with beams.

As for the frigates, I think they were able to do all those repairs not so much because of the parts the Agincourt carried, but because of the personel, raw materials (for hull repairs) and most of all several days (wasn't it two weeks?) without anything else to do and very little danger of getting into battle, since they were making a silent run in the middle of nowhere.

-There you go.

-Maybe maybe. Like I said, I don't have a convincing statement ready without replaying.

-More likely, the Orions were "mothballed". I know about what happens to old ships like that. So, I don't see the problem with breaking out one or two. Unless of course, the GTVA attack on Earth specifically targeted mothball fleets too.

Wrong. There are no ex-GTA Orions available for reactivation. Even if they were, the UEF does not have the ressources to spare to bring them up to serviceable condition (all yard space is taken up by repair work or for new construction), and their manpower requirements are such that the UEF does not have the personnel required to operate them.

And that's assuming that there still are old Orions in mothballs; there are none.

How would you know that...?
I seem to remember a certain GTA Washington sitting right there at the end of the remade FS1. Besides, governments that have military don't just scrap fully-built warships - Especially not all of them. That would never happen. They would just stick them somewhere that nobody cares about - somewhere forgettable.

[joke] Like Pluto... [/joke]

Now, if the Washington (or whatever other Orion) was the only one left, then I could understand maybe the Gaian Effort stealing it for a mobile base... don't really see them being able to exist WITHOUT a mobile base of some sort, and they do seem to have plenty of fighters around...

-And you're still forgetting the Sanctuary.

[MatthTheGeek]

How would you know that...?

Dude, he's in the BP team.

[JerichoDeath]

How would you know that...?

Dude, he's in the BP team.

I knew you would say that, and that worries me since we know that (even according to BP-verse lore) there was at least two Orions in Sol at the end of the Great War.

Sanctuary, and that one that would have fought with the Lucifer. Given that it didn't fight with the Lucifer, it must still exist. I'd believe that it could have been stripped of non-essentials, but it would take a huge suspension of disbelief for me to accept ALL functioning destroyers to just be scrapped for no reason.
Pluto's looking like less of a joke now...

Unless, it was at Jupiter. Then, it's gone.

EDIT:
Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the Agincourt again...
... no need for all that space to be taken up in some base hangar~

Speaking of the name "Agincourt"... wasn't that in Mass Effect too? Or did they originally take it from somewhere else?

[TwentyPercentCooler]

How would you know that...?

Dude, he's in the BP team.

I knew you would say that, and that worries me since we know that (even according to BP-verse lore) there was at least two Orions in Sol at the end of the Great War.

Sanctuary, and that one that would have fought with the Lucifer. Given that it didn't fight with the Lucifer, it must still exist. I'd believe that it could have been stripped of non-essentials, but it would take a huge suspension of disbelief for me to accept ALL functioning destroyers to just be scrapped for no reason.
Pluto's looking like less of a joke now...

Unless, it was at Jupiter. Then, it's gone.

EDIT:
Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the Agincourt again...
... no need for all that space to be taken up in some base hangar~

Speaking of the name "Agincourt"... wasn't that in Mass Effect too? Or did they originally take it from somewhere else?

Or, it was scrapped for raw materials to use in the Solaris destroyers, a cost-saving measure to soften the budget numbers to sell them to a pacifistic populace that resents the military's existence. It's a pretty sensible move from where I'm sitting, given the information about the UEF that we have. I know that technology has obviously advanced a great deal between the Orion and the Solaris, but besides the electronics systems and the armor, the interior bulkheads, struts, and various other miscellaneous components should be similar enough to be able to use recycled materials. I know it's tough to get a sense of scale because we don't actually get to see the destroyers with our own eyes, but that is a metric asston of alloys, ceramics, superconductors, etc., and some of them have got to be reusable.

[-Norbert-]

Also according to even the FS1 techroom the Orion were not just a symbold but THE symbol of GTA authority. If I was a fledling semi-pacifistic government that just took over from a military government like the GTA, I'd try to get rid of their symbold of authority.
Even it it's just flying them into the sun with a lot of press and pomp and dessing it up as a funeral for those destroyers, or better yet take them apart and use the parts not for a new warships, but for something peacefull.
"And now those parts that were once used to take lives will be used in preserving lives by being used to build several medical frigates" or somesuch.
That certainly would make a powerfull symbol and show everyone what Ubuntu is all about.

[The E]

I knew you would say that, and that worries me since we know that (even according to BP-verse lore) there was at least two Orions in Sol at the end of the Great War.

And? Let's look at this again.

First of all, after the node collapse, the GTA 1st Fleet slowly collapsed as funding was withdrawn. Which, probably, meant that its ships were initially mothballed or scrapped.
When the UEF emerged as a governing body and started to rebuild a fleet, they chose to move away from the "One big Destroyer supported by numerous cruisers" approach of the GTA towards a fleet model of having numerous sub-Destroyer ships (termed Frigates), where each fleet element had the same or equal firepower as a Destroyer while having smaller crew requirements and higher maneuverability overall. In other words, they built a fleet better suited to the task of policing a single star system as opposed to a multi-system alliance.

When Byrne started arguing for the Solaris class, his main argument was that while the Frigate Navy was very good at policing the solar system, in the event of a shivan incursion into Sol heavily concentrated firepower and distributed command were a necessity. As the UEF economy had recovered enough to absorb the cost of designing, building and maintaining these beasts, he was able to acquire the funding necessary.

Now, could the UEF have reactivated and refurbished the Orion class? Yes, certainly. But it was argued that Orions would have required a massive refitting in order to work within the tactical and strategic framework developed by the UEF Navy, while at the same time sending an unwanted political signal.

As a result, if the Orions hadn't been scrapped already, they certainly would have been after the Solaris class was approved; after all why keep those dinosaurs around when you can get a completely new, made-to-fit design that can slot right into the existing fleet doctrine? A design that is, in all aspects, superior to the Orion?

Now, you're arguing that reactivating these ships would be a good way to bolster the fleet in the face of the GTVA invasion. As previously discussed, doing so (presupposing that there are hulls waiting to be reactivated that is, which ISN'T THE CASE) would divert ressources away from building and repairing fighters, cruisers and frigates that the crews are used to.
In the UEF's estimation, old Orions would require a significant amount of up-gunning, as their point defense is sorely lacking by UEF standards. Their primary firepower comes from obsolete blob turrets, replacing those with mass drivers or missile launchers is prohibitively complicated; it would be like taking an Iowa-class battleship and remodelling it into an aircraft carrier with ICBM capability. So no. It does not make one bit of sense to keep them around, or reactivate them.

Sanctuary, and that one that would have fought with the Lucifer.

As discussed above re: the GTD Washington. Regarding the Sanctuary, pretty much the same caveats apply, plus added concerns regarding her structural integrity and the fact that after 5 decades of being a sleeper ship, it pretty much can't be relied upon in a modern combat environment.
There are also a few other story reasons why it hasn't made an appearance, but those are, for the moment, classified.

[MatthTheGeek]

I think he also was talking about the Sanctuary that was built in our universe, the one that was never used as a sleeper ship. This one had the same fate as the Washington : mothballed.

[-Norbert-]

If I got the backstory right in my head, there never was a Santuary in our universe.
Unless I misremember there were two Orions under construction. When Earth fell, they scrapped one to upgrade the other from standard Orion to the Sanctuary (in the apocalypse universe).

Considering how massively different the Sanctuary is from an Orion, I'd guess they couldn't have been too far to completion of either Orion and with Sol being cut off from the rest of the universe construction of those two was surely halted. And due to the economic and political problems I don't think they would ever have resumed their construction.

[MatthTheGeek]

Well, they had to remove em from the shipyards at some point. And hence they probably ended up alongside the mothballed Washington.

[StargateSpankyHam]

Never mind that even IF the practically ancient Orion hulks weren't flown into the sun, they would be stripped of all usable components.

What this equates to is bringing in a team of engineers to completely rebuild every single component of a scrapped aircraft sitting in a museum (such as an XB-70 or a SR-71). There's a reason it doesn't work. It's obsolete technology, and they'd have to engineer old and obsolete parts for it. Or spend exorbitant amounts of time adapting new technology to such an old frame.

Even if the Solace and Aginourt could take an orion hulk and poop out a fully functioning destroyer a week later, the UEF would be infinitely better off using such a strategic resource to build a fourth Solaris. And this assumes that the logistics ships can even construct capital ships. All we know for certain is that it repairs them.

Much more likely: Byrne is still sitting at Earth. Netreba is still sitting at Mars. Calder doesn't have the Jovian worlds to defend, so there's no reason the Toutatis can't go on the offensive. The Sanctuary might join up with Calder, along with the two logistics ships, a handful of Naranyas, Karunas, and Sanctuses, and...wait, this fleet format seems vaguely familiar (from Age of Aquarius).

[-Norbert-]

Why would the handfull of ships Calder has left need two logistic ships.... or any for that matter, considering they operate in their own solar system. And using the Sancutary for battle without massive modifications (practically a rebuild) would be unwise.
It is armed with 18 blobs and two fusion mortars. And not even new blobs, but outdated blobs (Terran turret to be exact). And purely from the tables the Sanc has the same HP as a standard Orion (100.000) while being bigger. Now add to it the lack of 50 years of armor development and you're only missing a big "please shoot me" sign.

The only military functions I can see the Sancutary possibly being usefull in, in the UEF-GTVA war would be carrier or decoy/bait (IF the subspace sensor readings of a Solaris and the Sancutary using their jumpdrives are similar enough to fool the GTVA).

[StargateSpankyHam]

...And those huge batteries of seven guns, on the front and sides?

Why else would those be there, if not to mount UEF anti-capital ballistic weapons?

I'd be astonished if that ship didn't become a mega-Naranya. And yes, its fighter capacity remains unknown.

[MatthTheGeek]

They mount Fusion Mortars. Look at the tables, guys.

[-Norbert-]

Yes I know and already wrote so in my previous post.

As for the seeming multi-barrel turrets:
In the original model those were indeed weaponsystems (Dawn of Sol for example used them for beams IIRC), but in the BP version those turrets were deactivated or something. They still show up in FRED, but you can't assign them any weapons and they also aren't targetable ingame.
As for backstory, they might have something to do with the purpose of the Sanctuary. It was supposed to be self-sufficient enough to endure 50 years of being hidden away in some nebula. They might be a means to gather gas from the nebula used for a variety of purposes (source of fuel and water, maybe air) or they might just have been transport tubes for bringing in the sleeper tubes.

Or it's just a legacy of the original model that Darius had to live with, due to no better suited model being available. Remember that the first version of AoA didn't have a team of people, nor any modelers. It was done by Darius alone.

[JerichoDeath]

stuff here

Guess it's time to start shoring up my ability to suspend disbelief for the next time 

They mount Fusion Mortars. Look at the tables, guys.

Where are those tables, again? I'd like to look at those.

Yes I know and already wrote so in my previous post.

As for the seeming multi-barrel turrets:
In the original model those were indeed weaponsystems (Dawn of Sol for example used them for beams IIRC), but in the BP version those turrets were deactivated or something. They still show up in FRED, but you can't assign them any weapons and they also aren't targetable ingame.
As for backstory, they might have something to do with the purpose of the Sanctuary. It was supposed to be self-sufficient enough to endure 50 years of being hidden away in some nebula. They might be a means to gather gas from the nebula used for a variety of purposes (source of fuel and water, maybe air) or they might just have been transport tubes for bringing in the sleeper tubes.

Or it's just a legacy of the original model that Darius had to live with, due to no better suited model being available. Remember that the first version of AoA didn't have a team of people, nor any modelers. It was done by Darius alone.

Well, yes. There is that. Although, this game has a team of people who are up to the task of altering the old design of the Sanctuary, if necessary.

Never mind that even IF the practically ancient Orion hulks weren't flown into the sun, they would be stripped of all usable components.

What this equates to is bringing in a team of engineers to completely rebuild every single component of a scrapped aircraft sitting in a museum (such as an XB-70 or a SR-71). There's a reason it doesn't work. It's obsolete technology, and they'd have to engineer old and obsolete parts for it. Or spend exorbitant amounts of time adapting new technology to such an old frame.

Even if the Solace and Aginourt could take an orion hulk and poop out a fully functioning destroyer a week later, the UEF would be infinitely better off using such a strategic resource to build a fourth Solaris. And this assumes that the logistics ships can even construct capital ships. All we know for certain is that it repairs them.

Much more likely: Byrne is still sitting at Earth. Netreba is still sitting at Mars. Calder doesn't have the Jovian worlds to defend, so there's no reason the Toutatis can't go on the offensive. The Sanctuary might join up with Calder, along with the two logistics ships, a handful of Naranyas, Karunas, and Sanctuses, and...wait, this fleet format seems vaguely familiar (from Age of Aquarius).

-repairs like on just such a hulk?
Keep in mind just how amazing WiH paints ships like the Agincourt as being. Just three terran ships for all of the GTVA fleet?
Unless we're just supposed to forget all that now~

[The E]

stuff here

Guess it's time to start shoring up my ability to suspend disbelief for the next time 

Look, I gave you a perfectly reasonable, in-universe reasoning as to why the UEF does not use and does not intend to use Great War era craft. You can take it or leave it, but please, don't just say "I don't buy it" and at me. That's more than a bit disrespectful.

-repairs like on just such a hulk?
Keep in mind just how amazing WiH paints ships like the Agincourt as being. Just three terran ships for all of the GTVA fleet?
Unless we're just supposed to forget all that now~

Disregards several important factors.
One, Anemoi-class ships, while very useful, need a trained crew to operate at peak capacity. Which is something the UEF just doesn't have, given their lack of Anemois or GTVA equipment in general. While they can make them work for their purposes (the Tech base hasn't drifted that much between the two), that's something else than the high turnaround a trained GTVA crew could manage. Also, there are no Orion hulks left to be refurbished in Sol, as I believe to have stated previously.
Two, Byrne's secret project, which he believes to be enough of a gamechanger to win this war, is a massive engineering project being rushed to completion using the ressources of (Post-Aristeia) two Anemois.
Three, the Solaris IS a very very capable class. It can take on two or three GTVA Destroyers at once and come out on top (Provided there's adequate fighter support, if there isn't, a Solaris can still go toe-to-toe with at least one Destroyer, more if none of its opponents are Titans or Raynors).