[-Norbert-]

How is pointing it toward the sun, giving it a little shove and letting sir isaac newton do the rest expensive?

physics in FS universe is different than physics is our universe.
For exmple ships in FS will stop when you destroy their engines. And antimatery warheads are doing smaller explosions than exploding ships. Even if this was possible i would say that's not good idea, cuz anyone could steal  it before it would reach the sun(for example gefs).

I'll let the physics quote stand for itself, but preventing theft is very easy. Send two or three fighters along and have them yell for help if any suspicous ships appear.

[MatthTheGeek]

Unless the thieves can jam comms.

[-Norbert-]

Then the pilots would drop out of communication and thus the military would know somethings wrong.
Just have them report in every 10 minutes or so. I doubt the Gefs have the ressources to steal something as big as an Orion in under 10 minutes (if they do at all).

[Mars]

You'll notice the US mothball fleet, which includes some pretty impressive firepower, isn't under extremely heavy security?

Stealing a whole ship takes some serious effort.

[JerichoDeath]

Remember that the Gefs, at this point, have GTVA support. Stealing the ship within 10 minutes isn't impossible, not for the GTVA. Especially, not for the GTVI (who I believe would handle the operation).
Now, if you're talking about before the war, then that's different.

Still, it doesn't match with the mindset of the military to destroy a ship like that, it doesn't match with the politics of the ruling party either. Taking apart the ship's materials wouldn't help much because of the obsolete parts, and it might cost more to do than just use materials they have on hand.

It makes much more sense to just throw the ship somewhere out of the way, and forget about it. (a museum to remember the mistakes of the past, perhaps?) (er, yeah, I see the irony in what I just said, but it still applies.)

Also, Pluto, as a place to toss old stuff, comes to mind again. It would also be a good reason why no one could use the hulk anyway... too far, too risky to go get it.

[crizza]

Guys...if a member of the BP team says, that there are no great war era ships somewhere mothballed...then you'll see no retrofittet Orion...

[Scotty]

BP team member discussion in the public forum is, fortunately or unfortunately, NOT Word of God for BP.  Not until it's mentioned in a campaign or some other official release like the dossiers on UEF/GTVA/etc.

[The E]

Indeed. But I can state with absolute certainty that we do not plan to bring in any GW-era craft on the UEF side.

[JerichoDeath]

Indeed. But I can state with absolute certainty that we do not plan to bring in any GW-era craft on the UEF side.

Nothing wrong with a little speculation, is there?

Anyway, I did say that it was the reason for the result, not the result itself, that bothered me. There are plenty of reasons for GW-era craft to not show up on the UEF side, some of which I put forward.

[Destiny]

How is pointing it toward the sun, giving it a little shove and letting sir isaac newton do the rest expensive?

physics in FS universe is different than physics is our universe.
For exmple ships in FS will stop when you destroy their engines.

Oh, so you're implying that the Indus should've blown up its own engines so it wouldn't get sucked into the sun?

[QuakeIV]

Naturally.

You'll notice the engineers emergency 'repairs' on the Indus seem to have consisted of blowing the engines off of the ship.

It was impossible for the crew to fully repair the engines in time, the only option was to destroy them and wait for rescue.

[-Norbert-]

Remember that the Gefs, at this point, have GTVA support. Stealing the ship within 10 minutes isn't impossible, not for the GTVA. Especially, not for the GTVI (who I believe would handle the operation).
Now, if you're talking about before the war, then that's different.

We were in fact talking about the time the Orions were either taken apart or destroyed, which was done long before the war started. My guess would be, that it was one of the first things the Ubuntu did after they had controll over the entire Earth and Luna, at the latest when Mars and Jupiter joined up.

[Flak]

But you can expect some old Fenrises (with no beams) in the hands of the Gefs, probably.

[-Norbert-]

Or maybe even with beams, depending on how generous the GTVA was with their gifts.

[JerichoDeath]

Remember that the Gefs, at this point, have GTVA support. Stealing the ship within 10 minutes isn't impossible, not for the GTVA. Especially, not for the GTVI (who I believe would handle the operation).
Now, if you're talking about before the war, then that's different.

We were in fact talking about the time the Orions were either taken apart or destroyed, which was done long before the war started. My guess would be, that it was one of the first things the Ubuntu did after they had controll over the entire Earth and Luna, at the latest when Mars and Jupiter joined up.

-As far as destroying them is concerned, I would see that as hypocrisy on the part of the government; Using violent means to end the memory of a violent past. Political Fallout ensues. If they really are the great understanding pacifists that they say they are, they wouldn't even consider the option anyway.
-I've already supplied my refutation to taking them completely apart. Now, stripping the useful systems out, I could see that.

[-Norbert-]

Political Fallout?
Why would people who just got dragged out of the worst economic crisis in Human history go totally berserk at their saviours, because the ships that represent the previous government, who was at fault for those problems, are destroyed, violently or not? It's far more likely that they would gather in public places, watch the spectacle on big screens and cheer to the pictures of the Orion(s) blowing up.

The Ubuntu, while being peace loving, are NOT hardcore pacifists who avoid violence at any and all costs like Mahatma Ghandi. They do employ force and violence if it is the best option. But since force is very, very seldom the best option, they use violence hardly at all. But two years of bloody conflict show that they are capable controlled violence, without the civilians going haywire over it.

Besides, letting the ships glide into the sun can hardly be called violent means. Rather than a violent destruction, that has more the feel of a space funeral that many other Sci-Fi franchises employ (Babylon 5 and Star Trek being two famous ones) - though for people, not ships obviously.

[JerichoDeath]

Political Fallout?
Why would people who just got dragged out of the worst economic crisis in Human history go totally berserk at their saviours, because the ships that represent the previous government, who was at fault for those problems, are destroyed, violently or not? It's far more likely that they would gather in public places, watch the spectacle on big screens and cheer to the pictures of the Orion(s) blowing up.

The Ubuntu, while being peace loving, are NOT hardcore pacifists who avoid violence at any and all costs like Mahatma Ghandi. They do employ force and violence if it is the best option. But since force is very, very seldom the best option, they use violence hardly at all. But two years of bloody conflict show that they are capable controlled violence, without the civilians going haywire over it.

You're missing the point.
The use of any destructive actions by the current government (no doubt immediately after making promise this, that, and what-have-you to never let that happen again) would not exactly cast a good shade on the future. Anyone taking a stance against the current government would point this out.

Further, it wouldn't be the best option at all. I can think of few things more stupid than just destroying those ships (besides handing them over to the Gaian Effort).

Besides, letting the ships glide into the sun can hardly be called violent means. Rather than a violent destruction, that has more the feel of a space funeral that many other Sci-Fi franchises employ (Babylon 5 and Star Trek being two famous ones) - though for people, not ships obviously.

Talk to the crew of the Indus about the sun being non-violent.
Plus, it's also a gigantic waste of a potential resource. (see above)

[Mars]

Please state what your trying to say again, I'm not sure if I get it.

[JerichoDeath]

Please state what your trying to say again, I'm not sure if I get it.

Me or him?

Well, I'll try to re-phrase:
Immediately after the end of a great war, the new Earth government that is mostly pacifist (the fighting was done mostly by Mars and Jupiter anyway) has a few destroyers sitting around. It would be too costly to keep them in service, of course. So, some might suggest putting them away. In storage.

Of course, they wouldn't do anything immediately. They can't be sure that the Shivans wouldn't be able to repair the portal, or enter through some other means (Ross 128 unexplained?).

So, they sit on the ships for a while. Maybe a year passes.

After that, they are fairly sure that the Shivans aren't going to come through to them. (maybe not a full year, but long enough to be sure)
So, the subject of the destroyers comes again. They can't keep them on active duty; That's a given. Destroying them would clash with their political platform as it would make more sense (practically too) to keep them around as a reminder of what they have triumphed over. Overcome.

But, there is this ship sitting around now... filled with systems. Systems that they can use. So, they probably take those.
At this point, most people have probably forgotten about these ships in favor of the new stuff that is being designed/built for the military.

[-Norbert-]

As I already pointed out before the Ubuntu party is NOT PACIFISTIC!
They are economists and scientists.
They didn't come to power because they promised pacificm. They came to power because they fixed the collapsing economy (first locally on a small scale and then further and further), made sure people got jobs, food and a roof over their heads, not to mention good education.
The only time "pacifists" is mentioned in the backstory is in the half propaganda half-informative FAQ-like article in which the GTVA high command informs it's crews what Ubuntu is.
Pacifists don't have armies. Pacifists don't try to kill Gefs. Pacifists don't resist a superiour enemy for two years.

But, there is this ship sitting around now... filled with systems. Systems that they can use. So, they probably take those.

Actually in my previous post I typed out that the destroyers would be gutted of anything usefull before they get destroyed, but then removed it again before posting to keep the text shorter, because I assumed it was unneccesary to point out something so obvious.... guess I was wrong about that.

At this point, most people have probably forgotten about these ships in favor of the new stuff that is being designed/built for the military.

"At this point" was right after the Ubuntu party took over from the GTA (on Earth anyway) in my original argument. So no, people wouldn't have forgotten about those ships. Besides the Orion was around for a very long time and was the very symbol of GTA authority. That isn't something people just forget after one or two years.... or a decade for that matter.

Talk to the crew of the Indus about the sun being non-violent.

A great arguement, except for a "tiny" flaw. The Indus' crew was hurting and dying from the radiation. If they shot the Orions into the sun they would naturally be completely unmanned at that time and the people back on Earth who watch it would be millions of kilometers away from danger.