[Grizzly]

How about that Kurds business?

[NGTM-1R]

How about that Kurds business?

You're gonna need to be way more specific.

[MetalMilitia]

A delightfully inept posting

I loved this one 
Alright, let me break it down to you
Being an SF lieutenant in Iraq for 2 and half years.... Unlike you and the others, I don't watch the news, I'm the news. So while the US is here in Iraq, how many Iraqis are dead due to US presence with lack of control and wrong policies?? I can assure you, at least 6 digits.. People are being fed? Iraqis had no problem in founding food, even when Saddam was around.. Where did you get that "disease non existent?" have you been to the South of Iraq?? I don't want to bring up the topic about pollution due radiation and subsequent "genetically enhanced offspring, huh" the Iraqis are having now from depleted Uranium..
No enemies, I won't talk about domestic, because your claim is obviously bogus.. but no foreign?? How about Turkey and Iran bombing the Iraqi northeastern borders everyday without the US moving a finger?? Kuwait and their future Mubarak harbor, which will hurt Iraq for the long term... Ok, How about some Iran funding militias to kill Sunnies and Saudi Arabia and Syria funding and supporting the extremsits to kill Shia'a,, dude, we almost got a civil war starting. We also created the ultimate and No.1 country in corruption..
And the part I hate the most is "Iraqi government is functional". I left Iraq a year ago, people have 2 hours of power a day and no driniking water at least 8 hours a day in country that has two rivers.. Oh, did I forget to mention the water war from Syria, Iran and Turkey.. These countries were afraid of even looking towards Iraq 10 years ago, good work of a government the US has supported in Iraq while it was occupying.
I totally agree with Unknown Target saying "It just seems to me that while this move was eventual due to the US's already unstable resource supply, and the seemingly ever-growing sappage of corruption, that this Iraq withdrawel feels of political as well"
I'm surprised that people are ignoring the first goal of this war, WMD. Was Saddam's mind the weapon we were afraid of?? or the Iraqi scientists being killed everyday while the US goverment looking the other way "as an occupation force would do?"...
Why simply attacking Iraq? not even one Iraqi was involved in 9/11, why not attack Saudia, oh I forgot, we already secured their oil...

[NGTM-1R]

Being an SF lieutenant in Iraq for 2 and half years....

That actually makes you significantly less qualified to assess what's going on then a number of the members of this forum.

(And the idea that your low-level first-hand experience gives you some kind of special insight into a situation as complex and large as Iraq is laughable. Maybe if you were a regimental staff officer I'd think you had things of value nobody else here can bring. If you're telling the truth: I'd like to note that I'm really used to better quality writing from somebody who's claiming they were an officer.)

People are being fed? Iraqis had no problem in founding food, even when Saddam was around..

Which in no way detracts from the point that a significant portion of a government's duty to its people is to feed, cloth, and house them. This comment is meaningless.

Where did you get that "disease non existent?" have you been to the South of Iraq??

I did not. But if you want to lie about my posting, please continue.

I don't want to bring up the topic about pollution due radiation and subsequent "genetically enhanced offspring, huh" the Iraqis are having now from depleted Uranium..

Cite a source. No, really, do it, right the **** now.

No enemies, I won't talk about domestic, because your claim is obviously bogus.. but no foreign??

You are literally unable to read or you are deliberately arguing in bad faith by misinterpreting my postings.

This discussion is over. You are unworthy of serious consideration in an argument due to your inability to argue your points and/or your willingness to lie about your opponents.

And I renew my objection to your claiming the mantle of military experience as a officer. Your behavior denies this with practically everything you do. I daresay you are incapable of having been one.

[MetalMilitia]

 
 
Another one is afraid from the truth
Keep Having those shades on 

[NGTM-1R]

 
Another one is afraid from the truth
Keep Having those shades on 

I'd pat you on the head for your childlike inability to grasp a qualifier, but the inability to make a nuanced argument or a supportable one isn't that cute.

So we're not quite done. What did I actually say? I said no enemies foreign or domestic able to challenge the government. If they exist, where are they?

If disease is running rampant, where is it? Epidemics? Massive death?

The lack of electricity? Again, they're doing better than a lot of places in Mexico. (Actually they're not far behind some of the nicer neighborhoods in Johannesburg in South Africa. I have friends there who complain about it.)

The country has two rivers! Congratulations, you can read a map. If you can use a compass, perhaps you really were a lieutenant. But really, saying you can give a whole country water from two rivers is giggleworthy even if they're the Tigris and Euphrates. Iraq had water problems long before Gulf One, never mind the US invasion. You've proved you can't do research. (And in regards to the water war, heaven forbid there be some attempt at equitable distribution now instead of whoever has the most guns taking it all.)

Iran funding militias: probably true. Saudi funding militias: possible. Syria: no I think they've got a bit of a problem at the moment and wouldn't want to give anybody guns they might have to fight later. Civil war? It's been years since Iraq was near civil war. Ask the Iraqis about it. (****, I have.)

Turkey's history of cross-border misbehavior is well documented. It's not nearly as extensive as you suggest. Or lie about, either way. Iran's history of cross-border misbehavior less so, but then there's a lot less to document.

You can make all the arguments you want. They're bad ones, though, and saying you have some special understanding of thousands of miles when you stood in the dirt of one is hardly creditable, and you've gone a long way towards proving it.

[MetalMilitia]

and how'd a kid in your age would be more qualified to assess the situation.. First,, you need to leave your mom's house and join the Armed Forces so you can better see the world.. Not just sitting as a spectator...
Go educate yourself... and learn to argue.. I didn't offend you in anyway... but you need to grow up

[NGTM-1R]

and how'd a kid in your age would be more qualified to assess the situation..

Ah, a fool and his age arguments.

A kid? I'm rapidly getting closer to thirty than to twenty-five now. I might well be older than you. I might well be better-educated. I might well be smarter. You have no idea who I am or what I do, just that I haven't got anything better to do on a weekend then arguing with you. For all you know I'm State Department, military, part of the goddamn CIA. I'm not, for the record, but that hardly makes your analysis automatically superior to mine.

Particularly since my job actually does involve a lot of interacting with servicemembers so I hear a lot about Iraq and Afghanistan, ask a lot about it. You have one impression. I have many.

First,, you need to leave your mom's house and join the Armed Forces so you can better see the world..

Yes. Being in the trenches gives you a good view. Oh wait you're in a trench and you can't see **** from there. Personal impressions are useless, often even counterproductive, in assessing large complex problems. There's a reason I said if you were regimental staff (hell, I'd have even settled for battalion) I'd consider your viewpoint a unique and useful contribution: they get told endless amounts of stuff about what's going on.


The rest of this is pure ad hominem drivel.

[Grizzly]

How about that Kurds business?

You're gonna need to be way more specific.

The PKK. Turkey is quite pissed of at them. How is that handled?

and how'd a kid in your age would be more qualified to assess the situation.. First,, you need to leave your mom's house and join the Armed Forces so you can better see the world.. Not just sitting as a spectator...
Go educate yourself... and learn to argue.. I didn't offend you in anyway... but you need to grow up

Atleast one of members here is part of the US Air Force intelligence service AFAIK --- just thought I'd put it out there. But these sort of points have been brought up before - All of them by people who thus far had no idea who they were actually dealing with.

[karajorma]

and how'd a kid in your age would be more qualified to assess the situation.. First,, you need to leave your mom's house and join the Armed Forces so you can better see the world.. Not just sitting as a spectator...
Go educate yourself... and learn to argue.. I didn't offend you in anyway... but you need to grow up

This is the only warning you're getting. If you can't remain civil, you're not going to be posting on here.

If you think NGTM-1R is wrong you need to attack his arguments. If you're going to attack him, you won't be allowed into the debating forum any more.

[MP-Ryan]

I don't want to bring up the topic about pollution due radiation and subsequent "genetically enhanced offspring, huh" the Iraqis are having now from depleted Uranium...

I'm sorry, but if you want to continue with any credibility in the future you need to post a source for this absolute nonsense immediately.  And before you try to brush this off as a childish post from someone with no life experience (which NGTM-1R isn't either), I'm an employed adult with a degree in... Genetics.  And what you've said is completely nonsensical, so I suggest you clarify and source it more than adequately.

Let the backpedaling begin.

[FlamingCobra]

Not sure if this was announced in some depth earlier,

BARACK Obama intends to withdraw all 39,000 remaining US troops from Iraq by the end of this year.

The US President's decision, announced today, follows a failure to reach agreement with Iraq's government about leaving several thousand American soldiers behind after this year's intended withdrawal deadline to continue special operations and training.

“Over the next two months, our troops in Iraq - tens of thousands of them - will pack up their gear and board convoys for the journey home,” Mr Obama said at the White House today.

The US withdrawal will bring to a close US involvement in a war that has lasted almost nine years, at a cost of $US1 trillion and the lives of 4,400 American soldiers.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/obama-announces-iraq-troop-pullout-by-the-end-of-2011/story-e6frg6so-1226173695959

Part of me started to rejoice before I remembered the implications here. Read later in the article and elsewhere that Iran may fill the gap - does anyone know if this is a valid fear?

...YAY! \o/ It's about Goddang time!

[Sushi]

Isn't this pullout right on schedule? The schedule we've had since 2007 or so?

Not that it being so diminishes it as a Good Thing in any way. Glad we're getting out, glad it's happening on good terms, and glad it's going according to schedule.

[Nemesis6]

I wonder what Turkey's role will be in this after the Americans leave. As far as I know, they already have substantial financial investments in the Kurdish north, which is kind of ironic due to the whole PKK thing.

[Nuke]

need to pull out so we can go to our next war.

[NGTM-1R]

The PKK. Turkey is quite pissed of at them. How is that handled?

Much the same way the US handles the problem with the Taliban in Pakistan, which is hardly an ideal solution but Iraq's actually in a pretty poor position to go play stormtrooper with its own Kurdish populace, as they represent one of the most economically active (aside from oil) and (otherwise) law-abiding parts of the country. The Kurdish part of Iraq was one of the first to recover after Saddam fell and both the Iraqi government and the US used it as a laboratory to find out what worked and what didn't. (It's also of note that a number of prestigious national institutions gravitated there: there was a good article about the Kurds resurrecting the Iraqi National Observatory in Sky & Telescope two or three years back.)

If Iraq cracks down on the Kurds now they'll have a big problem not only with public order but with credibility. As far as they're concerned the answer is to cross their fingers and see no evil; they haven't got a dog in the fight yet.

[Mika]

MetalMilitia, thanks for speaking up!

This discussion starts to have a similar echo from Spanish Civil War as described by Eric Blair here. Might be a good read for all of you. I do recall that Blair is well-known for being academically educated and from never participating in combat himself...

MP-Ryan, MetalMilitia probably means something else with "genetics" than you think. I know your definition is right, but what he says might not be wrong either!

Things start to get better only when the facts are admitted.

Salute

[MetalMilitia]

At the end, I wanted to say,,,, Was it really worth it??? the loss of over 4000 of our men and women and the tenths of thousands physically crippled and mentally traumatized all because of the horrors of Iraq war??? Not to mention the Billions of tax payers $$$$ spent to interfere in another country, thousands of miles away from the US shores. That money should be spent on other areas like "Space Exploration, for example  , sorry I love freespace", or medical care...etc
We had no business in that country in the first place, and the whole war started based on a lie...
MP-Ryan, wish I had my hands on the reports on the increasing numbers of malformed newborns from Fallujah.. by just googling "Iraq nuclear pollution" you will find disgusting photos.. The Iraqi government requested the WHO help to asses the damage from pollution on people's health.. that's all I meant.. So if, like you said, have a degree in genetics you'll know that even depleted uranium causes genes alterations to some degrees..
Did I mention that we removed a secular government "where people lived in peace" and supported a new government with ideology similar to that of Iran, the same enemy we're trying to get next??
See this link for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYdD37wryW8
This is the same army we fought in Al-Sadr city in Baghdad, supported by Iran and Muqtada Al-Sadr, in 2011.. Having a parade in Baghdad main streets with the Iraqi government blessing.. The same army that attacked our soldiers and killed them.. Huh, that's a nice outcome.
Just think about it, what made people "Iraqis" who welcomed us with flowers and praising us like their saviors our enemies?? isn't this worth giving it a thought? If you work closely with Iraqis, you'll see that they don't hate us, they hate our politicians who promised them a lot, and accomplished almost nothing for them.. Damn, they even started seeing Ba'ath party era better than this one... Doesn't this ring a red alarm?? What the hell did you expect from invading a country without a post war formulated plan??

karajorma Don't take sides.. If you go back to page one it will all become clear to you.. even if you ban me, pfff, like I give a ****. I will not come here again. As it's obvious the truth is making some people mad, while they're clearly ignoring the facts. I came here to see what people thought about Iraq war and sadly found some who looks like enjoying the outcomes of this war.. But if they were in the field, they would think otherwise, not just following what the media is feeding them..

[karajorma]

I'm not taking sides. We take a zero tolerance approach to insults. Had NGTM-1R insulted you in the same way he'd be just as banned.

[WeatherOp]

Ohh the hotness of a gaming forum.