[mjn.mixael]

it seems HLP is an atheist factory.


if ever I needed encouragement to keep doing things they way I have been.

 

I'm glad not everyone is going to respond like you are... (at least I hope the rest of us can see past our own personal agendas.)

[LordPomposity]

it seems HLP is an atheist factory.


if ever I needed encouragement to keep doing things they way I have been.

Evangelical atheism ftw. 

[Scotty]

Evangelical atheists are the worst kind of atheists.  Just like evangelical Christians are the worst kind of Christians.

[karajorma]

it seems HLP is an atheist factory.


if ever I needed encouragement to keep doing things they way I have been.

If you noticed, it was the one civil discussion they all mentioned too. So no, the way things have been going recently is NOT going to help.

[redsniper]

Discussions on HLP actually played a surprisingly big role in my self-discovery over my adolescence. I am atheist and rational based (note, I'm not saying that the two are the same thing) because of points brought up on here; but I'd have to say, the tone of the points made it terrifying.

The religious flamefests won't ever change the opinions of the hardliners, true, but they sure can be engaging for the fence-sitters, the open minded, and so forth. I wouldn't say "omg HLP changed my life!" or anything so sensational, but some of the better discussions on here have influenced my world view and stuff. Although it was the level-headed, informative posts from people like Battuta, MP-Ryan, Herra, et al that did it more than the trolls and assholes.

[Bobboau]

it seems HLP is an atheist factory.


if ever I needed encouragement to keep doing things they way I have been.

If you noticed, it was the one civil discussion they all mentioned too. So no, the way things have been going recently is NOT going to help.

which one was that?

[WeatherOp]

Opposite views debate; the only reason that religious debates get out of hand is because so many people take them so personally, and both atheists and theists tend to like pretending that the other side ALL BELIEVES THE SAME THING; which is not the case, you can have a nihilistic angry atheist and a dogmatic, self righteous theists and they end up being just as nasty in a debate.

The problem is the debate quickly degenerates from the actual dis-agreement on beliefs to an emotionally charged debate on your beliefs to an all out debate to be right. Thinking back on the many debates I helped fuel, I realize that many times I was found fault in that as well. That is wrong of me. In the years since that I have wised up, I've realized that going tooth and nail out to prove myself right in the eyes of others is not needed or required of me, and just wastes time and energy. Whether you agree or dis-agree with my stance on God or not, that is really something you have to deal with.  As long as where I stand on issues is solidly known, that is all I need to say.

I have to say the debates on HLP has helped me as well, I'm much more solid on my beliefs than I were then. 

[Mr. Vega]

It's very difficult to engage in sound reasoning while emotionally charged, regardless of how rational you think you are.

[Flipside]

I blame hierarchical command structures. Every leader who has ever authorised an atroctiy has been part of one, every soldier who has ever participated has been a part of one, and every citizen who ever ignored an abuse was part of one.

BAN HIERARCHICAL COMMAND STRUCTURES!!

[castor]

You can only discuss when there is someone with an opposing (or opposite) view. Otherwise what you have is not a discussion, it's an echo chamber.

That is a given only if the chamber is filled with people who somehow miss they're not omniscient.

[FlamingCobra]

it seems HLP is an atheist factory.


if ever I needed encouragement to keep doing things they way I have been.

HLP changed me into an agnostic. 

[Mars]

If you noticed, it was the one civil discussion they all mentioned too. So no, the way things have been going recently is NOT going to help.

The discussion I was talking about was close to a decade ago, but many coherent points were made.

Talking about how evil religion is, or just trolling religious people: you are right, it only made it harder to accept the good points made as the truth they were. It is one thing to talk about teapots and invisible unicorns, it's another to make inflammatory posts only semi-related to the discussion. Even the direct truth, when used in the wrong context, is ineffectual.

[Mikes]

I blame hierarchical command structures. Every leader who has ever authorised an atroctiy has been part of one, every soldier who has ever participated has been a part of one, and every citizen who ever ignored an abuse was part of one.

BAN HIERARCHICAL COMMAND STRUCTURES!!

Read some modern organisation and management literature and you might be surprised about the core of truth in your broadly generalized statement.

[Luis Dias]

It's very difficult to engage in sound reasoning while emotionally charged, regardless of how rational you think you are.

I agree with this sentiment. It's very hard for me, and that's perhaps why I am somewhat attracted to these discussions (will I be able to maintain composture?). I have to thank HLP for teaching me some manners, although I'm still probably too trollish.

I'll try and refrain from deviating themes towards religion, although I won't stop referring to the subject if it is connected with the OP...

[karajorma]

No one is saying you can't refer to it or even blame it when it is the cause. The problem is people trying to say that banning religion would solve the problem of the day.

[achtung]

No one is saying you can't refer to it or even blame it when it is the cause. The problem is people trying to say that banning religion would solve the problem of the day.

Banning religion is a very ludicrous suggestion anyway. It seems pretty clear that prosperity, education, and the ability to think freely™ are the most valid solutions to extremist religious belief.

[Flipside]

I blame hierarchical command structures. Every leader who has ever authorised an atroctiy has been part of one, every soldier who has ever participated has been a part of one, and every citizen who ever ignored an abuse was part of one.

BAN HIERARCHICAL COMMAND STRUCTURES!!

Read some modern organisation and management literature and you might be surprised about the core of truth in your broadly generalized statement.

Well, to be honest, I wasn't entirely picking a subject at random, there were times I would have happily fed my manager into a grinder, and that's violence generated by the command structure

The thing about Hierarchical command structures is that, like religion, they have both also had massive positive effects on the world we live in and are, for the main part, harmless. It's a problem that is encountered by Researchers a lot, the fact that you have to differentiate between 'A contains B' and 'B is a part of A'. Or, for a more interesting perspective, if you destroy A, would B cease to happen and vice versa? Since the answer, to me, seems to be 'No', I think that whilst we should be concerned about the Meme-transmitting ability of religion, and the kind of memes it is getting into the habit of transmitting, going on a seek and destroy mission is really picking the wrong target just as blaming Earthquakes on Gays is.

[Luis Dias]

No one is saying you can't refer to it or even blame it when it is the cause. The problem is people trying to say that banning religion would solve the problem of the day.

I never said such a thing, the problem that I've been dealing with is people assuming that I am saying exactly that, when I am not.

[QuantumDelta]

No one is saying you can't refer to it or even blame it when it is the cause. The problem is people trying to say that banning religion would solve the problem of the day.

Banning religion is a very ludicrous suggestion anyway. It seems pretty clear that prosperity, education, and the ability to think freely™ are the most valid solutions to extremist religious belief.

This is the most ideal solution, and although I'm aware I'm posting in this thread because my attention was brought back to it because Luis Dias mega-bumped it (and I find posting in a half dead thread better than starting a new one on a topic I don't really want to follow but am really just posting to vent outrage(seelink)), but your point is perhaps one of the best.
Were it not for free-thought and free-speech, we would not be anywhere near as enlightened as we are now.

It is however very hard as a strong minded Atheist with a great awareness of the human condition to market that wonderful and hoped for goal, when things like this;
http://www.skynews.com.au/world/article.aspx?id=689560&vId=2875426&cId=World
Happen.
It does tend to charge you emotionally to see people, literally, dying of ignorance.
Not even a religious war or some similar insanity, but just actual out-and-out ignorance.
I mean honestly, if a scientist were to be faith healed they would at least get a test to see if it worked rather than just going 'hooray, I'm cured!' and never bothering to check.
I mean, really?

[Bobboau]

HLP changed me into an agnostic. 

meh, close enough.