Author Topic: SW: TOR  (Read 5140 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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The ones that broke it all failed, just FYI.

Then they broke it in the wrong way....
there's a reason I avoid MMO's like a plauge.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 
They didn't, they were really quite charming, and some, amazingly brilliant games, but they just didn't take off, or get sustainable subscriptions.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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They didn't, they were really quite charming, and some, amazingly brilliant games, but they just didn't take off, or get sustainable subscriptions.

I mock you with internet spaceships.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Mongoose

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The ones that broke it all failed, just FYI.

Then they broke it in the wrong way....
there's a reason I avoid MMO's like a plauge.
You do, but millions of others obviously don't.

 

Offline TrashMan

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And millions of other don't play FS.

Do you have a point, other than millions of people wouldn't know quality/greatness if it run them over with a Orion?
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline newman

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Point is, the companies that develop this kind of thing are in it for the profit. They have a proven formula that they know works, or they could try to make a deviation from the established path and risk ending up like those other failed MMOs. I'm not defending this principle, just saying there's a reason why companies like to stick to established profitable ways. Making ground-breaking, trend setting stuff is risky business. Which is part of the reason why you'll always have more "following the established formula" types of products than the other ones. I think Bioware's been pretty honest in what they're doing. They never hid the fact game mechanics of SW TOR were WoW-like. They're also not hiding the fact that they'll charge you just as much as any new AAA game for just the basic edition and even more for the special/collector's/whatever they call it. And then charge you a monthly fee after that. So they told you what the game will be like, and they told you what will it cost. If you want a WoW style SW MMO, and if you find the payment scheme remotely fair, then knock yourself out.
For me, the answer is a big "hell no" on both counts.
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Offline Mongoose

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Pretty much that.  To say they're "wrong" for following a model that is proven to work is pretty absurd.

 
I haven't looked to see what TORs payment scheme will be, but honestly, when playing an MMORPG I have ALWAYS spent far, far, far less on games and not noticed it (until I realise I have an extra 600+GBP in my bank :P), over the course of the years that I've been playing them.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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I haven't looked to see what TORs payment scheme will be, but honestly, when playing an MMORPG I have ALWAYS spent far, far, far less on games and not noticed it (until I realise I have an extra 600+GBP in my bank :P), over the course of the years that I've been playing them.

It's funny - everyone likes to complain about the subscription fees, but really. I dare you to find me better entertainment for the value. It's not easy. People have no problem paying $10 at a theater to see a 2 hour movie, but getting 50 hours a month out of an MMO (and that would be a pretty casual playing schedule) is bad?

Never understood it. MMOs are one of the least expensive hobbies one could possibly have.

I will be buying SWTOR when it comes out. I'd like to see where BioWare is going with it; I've always liked the Old Republic universe. Plus I totally have a thing for Jennifer Hale's voice.

 

Offline TrashMan

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It's funny - everyone likes to complain about the subscription fees, but really. I dare you to find me better entertainment for the value. It's not easy. People have no problem paying $10 at a theater to see a 2 hour movie, but getting 50 hours a month out of an MMO (and that would be a pretty casual playing schedule) is bad?

Never understood it. MMOs are one of the least expensive hobbies one could possibly have.

That's easy.
Want a list or maybe I can PM you a powerpoint slideshow?

Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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It's funny - everyone likes to complain about the subscription fees, but really. I dare you to find me better entertainment for the value. It's not easy. People have no problem paying $10 at a theater to see a 2 hour movie, but getting 50 hours a month out of an MMO (and that would be a pretty casual playing schedule) is bad?

Never understood it. MMOs are one of the least expensive hobbies one could possibly have.

That's easy.
Want a list or maybe I can PM you a powerpoint slideshow?

Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?

Okay, okay, for the truly pedantic, I know there are plenty of things to do that don't cost anything. My point was that it's just silly to complain about subscription fees. Most peoples' hobbies are much more expensive. I like to play casual pick-up ice hockey games...it's probably an order of magnitude more expensive than playing an MMO. Safety equipment's a *****.

I just wish people would just come out and say MMOs aren't their thing instead of pretending that the subscription is ruining a good game for them or something. It's disingenuous.

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Personally, I think it's strange to pay someone so that you can have a second job.

 

Offline Mikes

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Personally, I think it's strange to pay someone so that you can have a second job.

It's not strange, it's a very human, if stupid thing to do. ;) (But hardly the only stupid/exploitive business scheme that people fall for)

Everything you need to know about MMO's in a nutshell: http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

When you consider MMOs you need to be aware that mechanics wise these games (i.e. refering to Everquest and all its clones including WoW and TOR) have much more in common with gambling than with what is usually understood as "gaming" in the rest of the (non MMO) computer game industry. I.e. they tend to be played for the "joy of getting (virtual) rewards", rather than the (in those games usually rather simplistic and repetitive) gameplay experience.

Yes MMOs work... but they work by exploiting the player. I.e. nothing else but applied behaviorism/conditioning in order to make money... and frankly, I  find it kind of disgusting to her people infer that "because these games sell" the companies behind them were "doing something right".

You could as well cheer on the gambling or tabacco industry in my eyes - except at least those guys aren't allowed to sell their crap to minors anymore.

Also: The old Everquest parody on http://progressquest.com/ is still as valid today when looking at WoW or TOR than it was during the time Everquest was popular, because at the core these games are really pretty much all the same: Persistant stat building/acquiring items, to give you the illusion of neverending progress and achievement. That's what gets people hooked and that's why anyone keeps playing them past a certain point despite the blatant repetitive design that those games force on you. (... which is what is supposed to keep you paying and playing.... i.e. "busy" so you never reach the end of "progress" and ask "WTF am i doing here collecting 50 orc noses by killing the same orcs over and over by the pressing the same simplistic 3 button sequence over and over and over.!?!?!?!".)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 07:54:06 pm by Mikes »

 


Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?
FS only lasted this long cuz of multi and then mods.
Skyrim lasted 100 hours.
Minecraft isn't my kinda thing.
Battlefield 3 is probably a noteworthy exception... ...but generally...


Very few of them will come even remotely close to the GBP/Hour that WoW or Neocron got for me.

My final wow /played was insane.. considering I was close to 1 year before TBC came out.. :P
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Mikes

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Very few of them will come even remotely close to the GBP/Hour that WoW or Neocron got for me.

My final wow /played was insane.. considering I was close to 1 year before TBC came out.. :P

Insane is how much repetition and how  little unique content (in comparison) that time played means in WoW/MMOs in general.

Imagine you had spent your subscription fee on other games: The amount of unique gameplay experiences and storylines that you missed out in favor of the huge amounts of drudgery and repetition found in WoW, is truly mindboggling, if you ever stop to think about it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 10:22:05 pm by Mikes »

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Very few of them will come even remotely close to the GBP/Hour that WoW or Neocron got for me.

My final wow /played was insane.. considering I was close to 1 year before TBC came out.. :P

Insane is how much repetition and how  little unique content (in comparison) that time played means in WoW/MMOs in general.

Imagine you had spent your subscription fee on other games: The amount of unique gameplay experiences and storylines that you missed out in favor of the huge amounts of drudgery and repetition found in WoW, is truly mindboggling, if you ever stop to think about it.

It's only drudgery and repetition if you think it is. And you're forgetting about the most important part of an MMO - the middle M. I played WoW for four years because I was in an awesome guild with awesome people who enriched the game experience for me. If you use your imagination, the repetition goes down. Sick of the raid dungeon? Try doing it drunk, or without pants (in the game, IN THE GAME). I enjoyed my time playing because working together with people I liked to meet common goals was fun. When the game stopped being fun and really did start to feel like a grind, I quit. It's pretty simple.  :D

As far as storylines and gameplay experiences go, SWTOR may be an MMO but it's still a BioWare game. The class questlines are full of content and the voice acting makes a difference. Once everyone finishes those quests, then we'll see if BioWare can pull this off.

 

Offline TrashMan

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That's easy.
Want a list or maybe I can PM you a powerpoint slideshow?

Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?

Okay, okay, for the truly pedantic, I know there are plenty of things to do that don't cost anything. My point was that it's just silly to complain about subscription fees. Most peoples' hobbies are much more expensive. I like to play casual pick-up ice hockey games...it's probably an order of magnitude more expensive than playing an MMO. Safety equipment's a *****.

I just wish people would just come out and say MMOs aren't their thing instead of pretending that the subscription is ruining a good game for them or something. It's disingenuous.


I'm comparing a computer game to otehr computer games.
You're comparing it to other things, but that's kinda pointless. You can easily fine more expensive "hobbies". And I can easily find cheaper ones.

My point is that there are games that can give you everything a MMO gives you, for a fraction of the cost.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TrashMan

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Quote from: TwentyPercentCooler link=topic=79109.msg1569250#msg1569250 date=1323410701

It's only drudgery and repetition if you think it is. [b
And you're forgetting about the most important part of an MMO - the middle M. I played WoW for four years because I was in an awesome guild with awesome people who enriched the game experience for me.[/b]

You can flig s*** with a bunch of good freinds and it will be fun. It's not fun because of the s*** flinging activity, it's fun because of the friends. And you can get friends outside of MMO's too.
Plenty of games have multi or co-op, and it doesn't require monthly subscriptions or grinding.

Quote
If you use your imagination, the repetition goes down. Sick of the raid dungeon? Try doing it drunk, or without pants (in the game, IN THE GAME).

If I wanted to use my imagination I woudl read a book or go to sleep and dream.
That you have to use imagination to mediate the drudgerry is a bad sign.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TrashMan

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Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?
FS only lasted this long cuz of multi and then mods.
Skyrim lasted 100 hours.
Minecraft isn't my kinda thing.
Battlefield 3 is probably a noteworthy exception... ...but generally...


Very few of them will come even remotely close to the GBP/Hour that WoW or Neocron got for me.

And none will close to the money you spent.

That toal time spent could have been easily distributed between multiple different game, offering multiple different experiences - for the same (if not lesser) cost.

Also, mods are part of the game.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Hades

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It's only drudgery and repetition if you think it is. And you're forgetting about the most important part of an MMO - the middle M. I played WoW for four years because I was in an awesome guild with awesome people who enriched the game experience for me.

You can flig s*** with a bunch of good freinds and it will be fun. It's not fun because of the s*** flinging activity, it's fun because of the friends. And you can get friends outside of MMO's too.
Actually flinging **** is fun because the looks people give you when you fling **** at them, 'cause they're not expecting to be walking to work or whatever and have someone come out of McDonalds or something and fling **** at them. It's absolutely delightful.

Also god damn Trashman learn how to put more than one quote in a post so you don't have to triple post.

Quote
And none will close to the money you spent.

That toal time spent could have been easily distributed between multiple different game, offering multiple different experiences - for the same (if not lesser) cost.
Like this. I've got two different quotes in my post, *****.

Also that's an opinion, QD's experience differs quite a bit and you can't really argue that he got more enjoyment and had more hours/dollar playing a subscription game over buying regular games.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL