[General Battuta]

I don't think you're right that Steele's in a pickle, or in a weaker position than he was at the end of Act 2.

I could have worded that better.  I didn't really mean Steele's command authority was threatened; I was referring to the overall GTVA war effort...that seems to be in a pickle because of some of the points I made last post.

Again, though, I disagree. I think Steele's position is stronger than it was at the beginning of Act 3. Anyone who's played the Act can probably walk you through why.

[Flak]

Like Al Da'wa put it, losing the Carthage and Lopez to Steele was just like losing a rook. On the other hand, Laporte was a pawn on the beginning on act 1, and just reached the end of the board at the end of act 3 and switched for a queen, at least for Calder.

[LordPomposity]

I don't think you're right that Steele's in a pickle, or in a weaker position than he was at the end of Act 2.

I could have worded that better.  I didn't really mean Steele's command authority was threatened; I was referring to the overall GTVA war effort...that seems to be in a pickle because of some of the points I made last post.

Again, though, I disagree. I think Steele's position is stronger than it was at the beginning of Act 3. Anyone who's played the Act can probably walk you through why.

In terms of conventional warfare? Almost certainly. He's traded one destroyer group for two, and he's so close to concluding the war that he doesn't really have to worry about the logistical bottleneck brought about by the additional ships and the loss of Neptune.

However, I suspect that losing his source on the Council and his best shot at concrete information on Shambhala is going to be a much bigger loss than securing an extra destroyer was a victory.

[crizza]

Hm...just a quick run on Google...I like the notion of Shambala being a protective zone...maybe that the vishnans can't maintain their connection to subspace or something crazy like that.

[Ravenholme]

Hm...just a quick run on Google...I like the notion of Shambala being a protective zone...maybe that the vishnans can't maintain their connection to subspace or something crazy like that.

Well, there is also this little gem about Shambhala in Buddhist teachings.

Shambhala is ruled over by Lord Maitreya. The Kalachakra prophesies that when the world declines into war and greed, and all is lost, the 25th Kalki king will emerge from Shambhala with a huge army to vanquish "Dark Forces" and usher in a worldwide Golden Age. Using calculations from the Kalachakra Tantra, scholars such as Alex Berzin put this date at 2424 AD.

[CT27]

I don't think you're right that Steele's in a pickle, or in a weaker position than he was at the end of Act 2.

I could have worded that better.  I didn't really mean Steele's command authority was threatened; I was referring to the overall GTVA war effort...that seems to be in a pickle because of some of the points I made last post.

Again, though, I disagree. I think Steele's position is stronger than it was at the beginning of Act 3. Anyone who's played the Act can probably walk you through why.

Should he try to retake Neptune before assaulting Earth?

[An4ximandros]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki Vishnan Apocalypse is a GO!

[Suongadon]

Should he try to retake Neptune before assaulting Earth?

No. Steele won't gain anything by it, but he would run the risk of a major fleet battle in an unimportant location again, and he didn't want that earlier, so why would he risk it? He'll have to do something about Calder and his artillery when the attack on Earth comes, but I think the Tevs would be better off keeping ships ready to counter 3rd fleet's counterattack then to try and retake the planet.

[QuakeIV]

Frankly that whole situation basically freed up a large number of ships for the offensive on Earth.  No need to watch over Neptune any more, and the Carthage's replacement was essentially four state of the art battelgroups (replacing one out of date mostly trashed one).  If it didn't allow Calder to harass the node the whole thing would frankly be a terrible idea.

[TheDemon]

I think the GTVA is well-positioned to beat the UEF military.

Spoiler:

But how the hell do they defeat the Shivans or the coming human extinction event? Do they have a plan to deal with Shamballa? Basically, rearranging pieces on the military chess board is fine and well, but the TRUE players in this conflict are playing on a different board entirely. And we don't know enough about the GTVA's one piece on this different board (contingency morpheus) to say for sure if they have any influence at all there.

[LordPomposity]

Spoiler:

Do they have a plan to deal with Shamballa?

Spoiler:

If we go by Steele's dialog in Everything is Permitted, the GTVA doesn't have the faintest idea what Shambhala is, let alone a plan to counter it. That said, Steele's hypotheses as to what Shambhala might be were so outlandish that it's difficult to regard them as anything other than feigned ignorance for the benefit of anyone who might have been listening in.

[Gray113]

I think the GTVA is well-positioned to beat the UEF military.

Going by the forces stationed in SOL thread...

Spoiler:

GTVA have 5 Destroyers - 2 state of the art (Raynor and Titan) and 3 Pre Capella (Hecate)

18 corvettes - 13 Deimos 2 Deomedies 1 Belleropheon 2 Chimera

11 cruisers

UEF have 3 Destroyers

11 Artillery frigates

10 Frigates (11 actually I saved the Serenity )

Unknown number of cruisers (probably) 35 plus

This does not look like a strong position for Steele to be launching an assault from, one general rule of war is is you are attacking a prepared enemy then you expect heavy losses. The GTVA are outnumbered in total craft and will be expected to assult fortified positions. Do we have any idea what perimeter defences the UEF have prepared around earth? Not including the fact that Fed artillery and fighter strength remains intact Steele has been unable to bring down a Solaris - these ships can mop the floor with any GTVA destroyer. The best Steele can hope for is that he can ambush one with assault groups of cap ships and hope that the artillery or bomber counter attacks don't tear his forces to shreds.

All in all I think what were looking at is a phyrric victory for the UEF - Steele withdraws with heavy losses to both sides but the Gtva send in another battle group to finish off the weakened Fed forces.

[Aesaar]

You're forgetting the ships of the Phoenicia/Vengeance battlegroup.  And the Agamemnon/Insuperable battlegroup, a Raynor/Titan pair, which is probably positioned right outside the node in Delta Serpentis, ready to intervene should that be necessary.

[Gray113]

The Phoenicia/Vengeance battlegroup were included in that tally.

The Agamemnon/Insuperable battlegroup would not be able to get throught the node and jump to Earth in time to affect the battle but would probably make up the core of the next battle group to finish of the UEF forces left after the battle.

So like I said phyrric victory for the UEF - Steele withdraws with heavy losses to both sides but the GTVA send in another battle group to finish off the weakened Fed forces.

[CT27]

So therefore, a phyrric victory for the GTVA in the overall war for Sol is still not out of the question and could be the end result of the war?


I'd be okay with that...as long as the GTVA still wins. 

[crizza]

You don't expect Steele do assault Earth without the Agammenon battlegroup do you?

[Aesaar]

The Phoenicia/Vengeance battlegroup were included in that tally.

It was?  Seems to me you just added the destroyers.

The Agamemnon/Insuperable battlegroup would not be able to get throught the node and jump to Earth in time to affect the battle...

You base this on what?  The Agamemnon/Insuperable could probably make the transit in less than a day.  GTVA battlegroups are meant to be able to reposition on extremely short notice, and this one is already on alert.

[Gray113]

It was?  Seems to me you just added the destroyers.

Before they arrived in system there were 3 GTVA destroyers

Spoiler:

4 before the Carthage was lost

these ships make it 5 - as I said I got these figures from the forces deployed in sol thread.

The Agamemnon/Insuperable could probably make the transit in less than a day.

The strike would not last one day, Steele is looking for a lightning strike that will overwhelm the defenders - this means all in. If he was able to bring  these reinforcements in for the first battle for Earth he would have.

[crizza]

Not realy,
Steele is building up pressure for the assault, but maybe what you think is what Steele wants the UEF to think^^

[DrewToby]

It was?  Seems to me you just added the destroyers.

Before they arrived in system there were 3 GTVA destroyers

Spoiler:

4 before the Carthage was lost

these ships make it 5 - as I said I got these figures from the forces deployed in sol thread.

You're missing the smaller ships attendant to the GTVA destroyers, however -- cruisers, corvettes, supply craft, not to mention fresh fresh pilots and munitions. For example, if the new battlegroup has any Anemoi logistics ships with it, the way Bei's 14th Battlegroup did, the UEF is in serious trouble. Nabbing that Anemoi in R1 was such a coup in part because of how few of those ships were in Sol. If Steele can bring in more, that gives him more leeway for large resource-intensive ops, while the UEF has no real way to respond. Each side's fleets can only afford to take so much damage before the fleet would become useless, but the new battlegroup increases the damage the GTVA can deal with; they can repair and restock via the Anemoi, and swap in fresh craft and men from the battlegroup itself.

Much as I prefer the UEF, things look even worse now than they did at the end of R1!