[CT27]

So Sara, you think the GTVA should offer the UEF the same kind of peace that the GTVA offered the Earth Alliance in the "Inferno" campaign?

[MatthTheGeek]

But not if the UEF knows they will lose if they do not agree to an unfair treaty.

"Unfair treaty" is just a flourished term for "conditional surrender".

[-Sara-]

But only a blunt axe would actually call it conditional surrender, which is bad propaganda and makes the Solarians angry. While if you wrap it up as a treaty (however bad it may actually be for one side), you can atleast try and write it off through propaganda as something positive. Mix that with a new puppet council that cites the necessity of joining up. It's like writing history and saying "we conquered that country" or "we uplifted that country". It's still shaky, GTVA needs to win this war if it can or change entirely.

[Jellyfish]

So Sara, you think the GTVA should offer the UEF the same kind of peace that the GTVA offered the Earth Alliance in the "Inferno" campaign?

Except the EA started that war, was much more powerful than the UEF, and had far less restraints. The GTVA was right with their demands against them.
Offering the same terms to the UEF is overkill.

[-Sara-]

If only the Tev's had a few recovered Shivan ships to hoax an invasion. I wonder how that'd go.

[Luis Dias]

If only the Tev's had a few recovered Shivan ships to hoax an invasion. I wonder how that'd go.

Ahahah, trollin' Sol ftw!

[-Sara-]

Then blow them up, safe the day, snicker behind your fist and tell them "told you so, now lynch your Elders and join us".

[Colonol Dekker]

That would involve them replicating Shivan beam visuals........

[Luis Dias]

... and the BEAMSOUNDZ ... in SPACE!

[CT27]

So Sara, you think the GTVA should offer the UEF the same kind of peace that the GTVA offered the Earth Alliance in the "Inferno" campaign?

Except the EA started that war, was much more powerful than the UEF, and had far less restraints. The GTVA was right with their demands against them.
Offering the same terms to the UEF is overkill.

The only specific terms I remember were:
-GTVA gets to keep an observer force in Sol
-GTVA gets to keep control of both sides of the Sol Gate

That doesn't seem all that harsh.

[QuakeIV]

I concur, thats pretty good terms all considered.  Not terms that the GTVA would be able to settle for with their current objectives, but pretty lax.

[James Razor]

I think the GTVA is way beyond such conditions. Not to mention that for most of that they would not even had to start a war.

They want to purge Vishnan Influence. And as it seems this is reason No.1 for the invasion. After all the effort, i doubt the GTVA is going to settle for anything less. Not to mention that they STILL have more ships in reserve.

I am pretty sure that if the GTVA has to, it WILL call in everything and the kitchen sink to crush the UEF. The UEF was struggeling to deal with 4 destroyers and just recently where able to nullifiy one of them. Now we have 2 more confirmed on the way, with more unconfirmed. And this is still not all they got.

[FIZ]

Well the Meridian was the first destroyer dealt with, but that took 18 months and a GTVA risk that didn't pay off.  Even that wasn't destroyed in canon, simply neutralized and forced to retreat.

[MatthTheGeek]

Wrong. The Requiem was first mauled over in the first months of the war (first battle of Neptune).

[Mars]

Wrong. The Requiem was first mauled over in the first months of the war (first battle of Neptune).

But not destroyed - and only lost a Deimos escort, while the Federation lost and rebuilt 7 frigates in the same timespan.

[FIZ]

Wrong. The Requiem was first mauled over in the first months of the war (first battle of Neptune).

Ouch.  Fatality.

[SaltyWaffles]

Wrong. The Requiem was first mauled over in the first months of the war (first battle of Neptune).

But not destroyed - and only lost a Deimos escort, while the Federation lost and rebuilt 7 frigates in the same timespan.

I was under the impression that it was the Meridian that assaulted Neptune, not the Requiem? And that the 3rd Fleet ambushed the Requiem in a separate engagement?

The First Battle of Neptune resulted in the loss of two frigates and four Sanctus cruisers for the UEF, one Deimos and lots of strike craft for the Tevs. A massive close-assault by gunships forced the Meridian to retreat, which is where they lost a Deimos escort.

Third fleet is mauled, second fleet is damaged...

3rd Fleet is still capable of engaging in major operations alone, like the taking/destruction of the Carthage.
2nd Fleet, according to Noemi, is just 'bloodied'

Bloodied was now Noemi described it early in Tenebra, IIRC, which was before Second Fleet lost at least one frigate and more strike craft, along with whatever Phobos Station was.

3rd Fleet isn't even a battlegroup at this point, though it can still do a lot of damage if used in the right place and the right time. At this point they're down to the Toutatis and its strike wings, two Narayanas, possibly a Karuna, one Sanctus, and maybe one Oculus (it might have been 2nd Fleet's Oculus). Quite formidable, yes, but by itself no match for a Tev battlegroup. At this point, if the Toutatis can be tied down by a next-gen destroyer or hunter-killer team, then a Hecate and a couple/few Deimos corvettes could easily overwhelm the remainder.

2nd Fleet is down to, what, the Eris, a few Narayanas, and a few Karunas (on top of however many cruisers and few Oculi it has left)? While quite formidable, it's also going to be facing a numerically superior force with beam cannons and tons of strike craft. It's also lost almost all of its best pilots, and Uriel gunships are scarce. Certainly not a forgone conclusion, but not exactly good odds either. The Tevs also have a lot more AWACS ships than the UEF does, especially when you factor in Aruroras.

-----------------

In general, I think the Tevs are better off with a strategy of gradually taking down the UEF fleet frigate by frigate, rather than waging a single massive battle. A war of attrition favors them, and as the numerical and technological superiority continues to shift in their favor, the pace of whittling down the UEF fleets increases. By taking advantage of Byrne's conservatism, they can commit an overwhelming force to destroy a frigate or two in 2nd and 3rd Fleets. Using a highly mobile force like Serkr, Steele could avoid escalation by making retaliation still very risky.

[Scotty]

The first battle of Neptune did not result in the Requiem being pushed out of theater.  The Requiem was pushed out of theater on an unrelated engagement several months into the war.  Salty is correct in his reasoning, though I think the UEF losses were four frigates, not two.

The Requiem's withdrawal plans to be featured in BP:Tev, and in that respect is entirely removed from First Neptune.

[FIZ]

'Check your six.  They can't get in if you don't let them.'

Paraphrased, but mayhaps our Magnificent Bastard has been touched by an angel. 

[Jellyfish]

The Requiem's withdrawal plans to be featured in BP:Tev, and in that respect is entirely removed from First Neptune.

That project is still ongoing? I thought it became waporware. Lack of news and all that...