Author Topic: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence  (Read 4966 times)

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Offline FireSpawn

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
So the moral of all of that is drive a Perseus?
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

Greatest Pirate in all the Beach System.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

 

Offline S-99

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
The point of the thread was hey "Cool, me and my car are strangely ok after a roll over."
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

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Offline FireSpawn

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
A Medusa then?  :D

But in all seriousness, even though you're alright, I bet it was a 'brown trousers' moment.
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

Greatest Pirate in all the Beach System.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

 

Offline S-99

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
It was so of non-consequence that i didn't even **** myself. Once my car lost static friction, i just took whatever time i had figuring out what my best option would be on the road without panicking. That first second of losing control was freaky, but that was really it, the rest of it was not scary.

I think i'll drive an athena for my next vehicle though. That thing was dependable.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Eh?  You get a winter tire and add studs to them, a lot of them have holes in them already for the studs.  Then you get winter tire + studs.  Adding studs to a winter tire is pretty darn cheap, considering... I think it's like 5 or 10 dollars, but I haven't really checked.  I do know that the difference between "all-season" tires and tires that actually have the severe weather rating that are made for winter is a lot, as I had cheap all-seasons, and putting winter tires on makes a night and day difference (I drove 20 miles to Wal-Mart and put the snow tires on in a storm, then drove 120 more miles with the tires).  But that's just snow vs regular tire, not taking studs into account there.


EDIT:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9701967776/m/11919386601

 

Offline S-99

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Advanced compound snow tires are what im looking at. They perform great on ice. It would be nice if my tires had the stud holes in the least.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Ugh, I don't even know what to make of this.

I don't know what sort of surfaces you are driving on but it is rather well established fact that studded tires have better performance over non-studded tires on hard snow or ice.

On soft snow, slush, or tarmac (obviously) the studs don't offer much performance gains over proper friction tires designed for low temperatures, but you'll definitely want to have tires designed for winter when the temperature goes down.


Obviously, nothing will help you if you try to do the impossible (every tire has their limit), but I would not be driving around in wintertime without studded tires, not when even a small performance gain can make the difference between life and death - either your own, or someone else's.

Quote
I have given myself the aspiration of wanting to be a good and proper driver. One of those things means being able drive without studded or blizzak tires during winter. For my first year of driving i was pretty good at it until last saturday. I wasn't even speeding, just going 48. Of which case i'll still say i'm pretty good at it, however not the best (i know exactly what i need to work on).

Let's talk a bit about risk management.

This is not a good aspiration, it seems more like a misguided attempt to make do with equipment that was not designed for things you try to do with it. Winter tires exist for a reason.

A good and proper driver would do two things:

First, ensure that the vehicle is properly equipped for the conditions.
Second, adjust their driving to the prevalent conditions.
Third, learn the limits of themselves and their vehicle in closed road/track, and then stay well away from said limits in normal traffic.

...three things, and almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.


Driving with same tires all year round is not a prerequisite for being a good and proper driver. The only criteria for good or poor driving is the amount of risks one takes, and the ultimate results of one's driving. Risk management is the most important thing the driver of any vehicle (in roads, water, or air) needs to be aware of, and I would personally say their skill is not defined by the lightning fast responses to keep the vehicle on the thin line between peak performance and loss of control, but instead by their ability to minimize the risks associated in vehicular transportation, and ability to get them and their passengers safely to the destination.

Speeding is a risk. Driving too fast for conditions is a risk. Not having sufficient knowledge of one's vehicle's behaviour at borderline situations is a risk.

The more risks you take, the more likely is the chance of some kind of incident. You might end up safely at your destination most of the time. Or, someone might end up with your eyes.

Using sub-standard tires is definitely a risk. Justifying it by saying that you want to be skilled enough that you don't need better tires is not an acceptable reason for not getting winter tires fitted on your vehicle. It's a terrible reason and I urge you to reconsider it.

It is, effectively, analogous to saying that, let's say an airline pilot decided to disable the ILS (instrument landing system) on their airplane because they felt they wanted to be a "good and proper pilot" rather than letting the autopilot deal with the approach/landing. Certainly, in good conditions they would likely be able to perform a visual approach with vectors, but in worse conditions, even finding the airport (much less aligning the aircraft with the runway for landing in final approach) is difficult and has, in fact, resulted in numerous accidents in the category of "controlled flight into terrain" - basically, pilots flying their perfectly functional aircraft into ground or mountainside in blind visual conditions, not being able to pull up fast enough to avoid a collision.

Regardless of how good a driver (or a pilot) you are, there is no sense at all consciously lowering the limits of your vehicle. You'll just end up meeting those limits faster.

If you have financial limitations that prevent you from getting proper tires for the conditions, then you shouldn't drive when the conditions go below what your tires are designed for. And if you have to drive, then I would suggest reconsidering your budget allocation, and think what you could do without, and get those proper winter tires - either studded, or not, as long as they are designed for the conditions.

Just as an aside, in Finland it is mandatory to install winter qualified tires on your car during the winter months and when necessary...


I should probably make it clear that I'm not accusing you of causing your accident. Black ice is notorious for causing sudden and unpredictable changes in the friction of road's surface, and there is typically nothing one can do once you hit it (regardless of tires or driver "skills"), the best you can do is to keep the vehicle stable and, at best case, on the road. Your choice of ditching the car was probably a good decision to prevent a more serious incident while you still had sufficient control of the vehicle to do it.

The only sure way to avoid problems with black ice is to know when the conditions are favourable to formation of black ice, and adjust your driving speed to low enough that you can manage even if you suddenly get on the ice. This is, of course, difficult (black ice weather conditions can be heavily localized) and impractical at best...

You really should get some ice track driving experience, though, just so you can get your opposite locks and clutch reflexes honed, as well as improve the feeling for the road surface. It does help in managing the situations when you end up beyond the red line for whatever reason.

Good that your incident didn't result in any serious damage to you or your vehicle, though.



I have had only a few minor scares myself - never ended up breaking anything or hitting anything, but one example would be when I was coming back home and preparing to turn right off the main road (90 degree turn, obviously). Started braking at the usual spot, but this time the road had a lot less friction than usual, and I noticed the car was not going to slow down enough to make the turn at a safe speed. So, I decided to go straight instead and stopped on the bus stop after the intersection, waited there until the road was free, did an U-turn and turned off the road.

It wasn't really a loss of control situation; however I did classify it as a risk situation since I was lucky to have the intersecting road clear, no one was waiting there to join the main road. If there had been someone there, they could have easily thought I was turning right, and driven right in front of me since I would have been unable to make the turn. In this case, I had overestimated the driving conditions and the car was not slowing down as fast as I had expected: Failure to recognize the conditions and adjust driving speed/braking distances to them.

Another "too-close-for-comfort" incident involved one rather close overtake of a truck (although it was not a three-cars-aside situation, there was less time than I would have liked but once I had committed to the overtake it would have been riskier to abort than to finish it). In this case I overestimated my vehicle's acceleration and the overtake ended up taking longer than I intended.
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Offline jr2

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
FYI:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/car-tips/winter-driving/how-winter-tires-differ-from-snow-tires/article2206902/print/

Quote


iStockphoto

How It Works
How winter tires differ from snow tires
richard russell
Globe and Mail Update
Published Wednesday, Oct. 19, 2011 4:14PM EDT
Last updated Monday, Oct. 24, 2011 6:01PM EDT

There are two factors that determine how well a tire grips the road – tread compound and tread design.

The compound is made up of a mixture of products, chemicals and production methods. The design is not only what you see, but the structure of the tires beneath the tread.

In the old days, a winter tire was called a snow tire and it had a much more aggressive tread pattern designed to cut into snow. Many people still use the term snow tire – but in reality tire companies no longer offer such a product.

As chemistry and production became more sophisticated, so did tires. The old snow tire was replaced by the winter tire. The difference was a tread designed to grip both snow and ice and remain supple in cold conditions.

These are critical factors. That old snow tire may have bitten into deep snow thanks to those big lugs and deep, wide grooves. But it got hard when cold and was not as good as a summer or all-season tire in wet or dry conditions, especially on ice.

The development of winter tires involved more closed tread patterns that remain supple in cold conditions and project thousands of little edges to grip ice. Because they do not stiffen up and have treads designed to throw off snow, they continue to be effective in snow.

The tire industry considers seven degrees Celsius as a key point. Below that, all-season tires stiffen up and offer much less grip while above that, winter tires become softer and start to wear excessively.

This has led to a new class or type of tire, all-weather, as opposed to all-season. These new tires are a hybrid of sorts, combining a compound that remains flexible in extreme cold with one that does not become too soft in warm weather.

These new tires, generally at the high end of a company’s range, pass all the severe weather tests necessary to wear the “mountain/snowflake” symbol recognized by Transport Canada and the Rubber Association of Canada, yet can be used year-round.

But that is not to say they are the ultimate tire, that they are perfect in all conditions. Once again, we have a compromise.

The compounding and design that allows these new all-weather tires means they re not as supple and suited to extreme cold conditions as a pure, no-compromise, winter tire. Similarly, they cannot hold a candle to quality summer tires in terms of outright grip when turning or braking in hot conditions. Ironically, we have all-season tires that are decent in spring, summer and fall but fall off when it gets cold and all-weather tires that are decent in fall, winter and spring but fall off when it gets hot.

Some like it hot – summer tires; some like it cold – winter tires; and some straddle the fence, not liking it hot or cold. All-season or all-weather, both are compromises. The best and safest solution is two sets of tires, one of which should be winter tires.

With winter approaching, the temperature of the surface of the road in the morning will be single digits, and often below that seven-degree point. A pure summer tire will offer minimal grip at that point and an all-season tire will be falling off while winter and all-weather tires will be coming into their element.

Do not associate the need to change tires with the arrival of snow. The critical issue is temperature. That’s why consumers should stop thinking and talking about snow tires and switching to winter tires.


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« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 07:20:22 pm by jr2 »

 

Offline S-99

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Ugh, I don't even know what to make of this.

I don't know what sort of surfaces you are driving on but it is rather well established fact that studded tires have better performance over non-studded tires on hard snow or ice.
A lot of people don't know what to make of things when i say stuff. Mostly it's a lot of normal and black ice i'm driving on. When i got rid of my old car that i found out needed the whole front end rebuilt (why i got rid of it). I found that i'd rather go with something better than studs. I can't currently allocate any funds toward better tires currently. When i can, i will. But, i'm getting blizzaks. Screw studs.

This whole thing is not to say i am completely oblivious to winter tires existing at all. Just that i'm not getting studs. I want more than just a small performance benefit. You can't go wrong with studs, but you can do better than them.

I myself want to minimize my risk of what happened from happening again most definitely. Even when being a driver who pays close attention to the road, something still happened which would have most likely mot happened at all with the right tires.
seems more like a misguided attempt to make do with equipment that was not designed for things you try to do with it. Winter tires exist for a reason.
You got it. And also i can't get better tires currently. Again, i'm not denouncing winter tires or being oblivious to their existence as a whole. I'm not getting studs, i'm going to get something better than studs when finances start pouring in. Or, if i magically get studded tires for free then i'll stick with them (free is great). The only thing i can shoot for right now is being a good driver because i am definitely not proper for the conditions.
Speeding is a risk. Driving too fast for conditions is a risk. Not having sufficient knowledge of one's vehicle's behaviour at borderline situations is a risk.
I was going 48. I wasn't going too fast, my folly was forgetting about the tight bend i forgot was coming up. A quick of **** moment while i turned gently too late. I was unprepared in two areas. Not remembering the tight bend was the primary one. Otherwise i wouldn't have gone off the road. The second was not having the right tires. You can still go off the road in such a situation even with the right tires; the risk for that however lowers a lot with the right tires. I am to blame for these two things of course.

Ironically, up here in alaska it is not a requirement to have the proper tires during winter.

The situation i found to be too close for comfort once i actually got my car back on the road. That was when reality of what happened hit me. On the way back home on a 100 mile slippery trip (one that i make all the time even) i definitely made sure to remember all of the bad areas on the drive. Now i just have the car parked. I'm not oblivious to the whole thing. Just surprised how oblivious i was in the first place to have what happened hit me later. It was one hell of a first close call for me whether oblivious or not.

However, I am putting something together so i can get better tires soon.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

  

Offline Davros

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
What you need to prevent rolling is a car that is wide with a low center of gravity
yes you need a supercar
behold


 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
I know you weren't speeding, I did read the thread quite thoroughly. I was merely comparing driving with improper tires with other, perhaps more common risk-taking behaviours in traffic... By the way it is likely that the suspension type of your vehicle is not ideal for driving in bad conditions. Correct of if I'm wrong but the car you mentioned sounds like a RWD with a rigid rear axis suspension which probably played a part in you losing control, tires and road conditions aside. Separate suspension for all wheels along with FWD (or AWD but those are not as common) can do wonders for stability and controllability... But getting a whole new car doesn't sound likely from what you said. Wish you safe driving anyway.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline S-99

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Cool, count on everybody reading the thread thoroughly. Driving with improper tires sucks indeed.

No, my car is front wheel drive. All wheel drive would be ideal. But, don't get to have it. I like sedans a lot. Supercar there reminds me of my mercury tracer. It was nice and wide. So is my dynasty.

It shares the wideness. But not quite as low to the ground. Either way, i managed to roll it onto it's roof  :)
It was all based on the swerve and how slippery it was when i went into the ditch with. What probably helped is that it was a 5 foot deep ditch. I believe my car is not as low to the ground because of the fact it came with what appears to be truck tires as opposed to normal sedan 14 inchers.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Ah. My bad then, I see an American car from the 80's and all I can think of is rear wheel drive with beam axle... ;)
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 
Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Or driving at high speeds.
High speeds on ice begin at 30-40 km/h. A lot of people don't have any idea going that slow could result in sliding for 20 meters or more...

Also- if spiked tires are illegal, chains may be, and they work wonders* on both snow and ice.

As for US cars that are wide, long, heavy and have rear wheel drive with a solid axle...


Here's my little tank

*-Limitations apply, check local laws of physics for details.
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Offline S-99

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Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
Nice car.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 
Re: I rolled my car, strangely to no consequence
I'm glad your ok man, myself in 49 years on this particular planet I have only rolled over once, thats wit my current vehicle, a 2001 Jeep wrangler, I was going up a hill and the ground gave way and I wound up sideways sliding down hill........oops........All I can say is thank you to Jeep for two things, 1 that very nice roll bar that I totally modified, and those mirrors on the doors that I took off and replaced with cheapo"s, but that IS why you see Jeeps with that writing upside down, it says " if you can read this flip me over"

No truer a sticker has ever been made.
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