Author Topic: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis  (Read 63834 times)

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
Wait... so... what? Am I going to have to buy a physical copy to get the preorder bonuses? By XCOM Enemy Unknown being bundled, do they mean the original one?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
i'm pretty pumped


 

Offline IronBeer

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
i'm pretty pumped

Same here. X-COM is beyond due for a modern remake.

I've really enjoyed the original. The gameplay's really good, the atmosphere is fittingly paranoid and terrifying, but the mouse-only interface has had me tearing my hair out in frustration at times. Not even keyboard shortcuts! (unless I really derped and somehow missed them)
"I have approximate knowledge of many things."

Ridiculous, the Director's Cut

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
oh god

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when soldiers panic, their will sapped by the death bolts crackling through the air or the sheer horror of seeing a chrysalid and what it does to a man, when they panic they really do panic. Screaming, sobbing, pleading for evacuation – they’re as doomed and vulnerable as ever an elite squad has been. And it’s not just the fear in their voices, it’s the burning trees that provide the only light at a midnight UFO recovery and the intestines looping from the ruptured remains of a civilian caught up in the whole nasty mess.


 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
"That's it man, game over man, game over! What the **** are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?"

« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 12:18:53 pm by StarSlayer »
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 
Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
So the in-game preorder stuff is only available in the physical copy...?
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
I soo want ot love this game...but after seeing all the gameplay vid, I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved about the old system. And this class specialization and cartoony graphics.
It screams "wrong" to me.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
I soo want ot love this game...but after seeing all the gameplay vid, I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved about the old system. And this class specialization and cartoony graphics.
It screams "wrong" to me.

Considering the original game's art direction, with a squad composed mostly of Colonel Guile I think the 'cartoony' look is par for course.


Though I suppose its likely you're just following SOP and being contrary for its own sake.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
the intro to the original xcom is literally a cartoon

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
I soo want ot love this game...but after seeing all the gameplay vid, I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved about the old system. And this class specialization and cartoony graphics.
It screams "wrong" to me.

Considering the original game's art direction, with a squad composed mostly of Colonel Guile I think the 'cartoony' look is par for course.


Though I suppose its likely you're just following SOP and being contrary for its own sake.


No, I'm being contrary cause I like having to keep my ammo consumption in check.
I like having tons of TU's and the huge range of options it presents (like different TU costs to fire a weapon).
I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary

I'm not that fond of rigid classes (only a heavy can throw grenades, only a sniper cna climb on roofs, etc..)
I'm not fond of catroony proportaions (the heavy looks like it came from Gears of War, sniper is skin and bones, etc..)

And X-Com? It's an old game. With that kind of graphics you couldn't do much in the first place.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
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I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary

Remind me again, what's your Psi strength in Scourge's playthrough?

 

Offline IronBeer

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
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I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary

Remind me again, what's your Psi strength in Scourge's playthrough?
ಠ_ಠ That's kind of a low blow- Trash didn't have a choice in how he got rebuilt.

Buuuut..... Psi/MC strength is kind of a special case as far as specialization goes. One weak mind can compromise an entire squad by falling to the aliens at just the wrong time.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
Nother Dev Doc

Includes flying suits, Chrysalids and SpzKpfw I
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Offline Rodo

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
Oh, THE HYPE.
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
Nother Dev Doc

Includes flying suits, Chrysalids and SpzKpfw I

Hmm cool another dev doc better click on the link and see some talking developer heaFOIHSFOEPSG H EFFUF****CKCK

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
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I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary

Remind me again, what's your Psi strength in Scourge's playthrough?

That would be a realistic limitation, as it is a physical/mental limit.

What isn't a realistic limitation is snipers not being able to throw grenades. No one else but snipers being able to use a grapling hook. No one else but assault being able to sprint. There is no reason for it besides "classes".
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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
Classes?  Turns composed of a standard action and a move action?  Feats earned through character progression?  This is all sounding vaguely familiar.

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The joypad is the only system in place for external use at the moment though...

This is my chief concern of the moment.  It could just be the games I'm playing, but it seems like every time I pick up a game that's ported from console to PC, the control scheme and user interface receive less than no attention.  I'd feel a lot more comfortable if there was a working mouse-&-keyboard interface at this stage of development, instead of hearing, "Yeah, we're working on that....right now....ish."

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I'm not fond of cartoony proportaions (the heavy looks like it came from Gears of War, sniper is skin and bones, etc..)



Either I missed that particular episode of Looney Toons, or you've somehow confused Firaxis' strategy game with 2k Marin's FPS.

I mean, these are dudes in armor.  Compared to the Personal Armor in UFO Defense, Firaxis has kind of toned it down.  Yes, the heavy weapons guy is in a bigger suit, presumably so that it looks like something that can realistically take a shot.  Yes, the sniper is in something much less substantial, presumably so that he can worm his way around the battlefield more easily.

This is, incidentally, the part where I think you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing.  If you wanted to say that the environments are too ****ing brown, like every "gritty" action game on the planet, then you'd have a decent point.  You can look at WoW and say it's too cartoony.  You can look at those shoulder pads and say it's too cartoony.  When you look at that burning sports bar, covered in smoke and soot and call it too cartoony, you surrender quite a lot of credibility.

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And X-Com? It's an old game. With that kind of graphics technology you couldn't do much in the first place.

Don't even try to start that.  No, the technology was not available for super-high-fidelity imagry, but developers still had the capability of consciously choosing an art style.  Microprose chose massive shoulder pads and huge, center-parted hair.  They chose flying saucers, green-and-purple musclemen, and anthropomorphized snakes.  Pong didn't have any room for visual artistic styling.  MUDs didn't have any room for visual artistic styling.  UFO Defense did, and they chose a style that comes across as vaguely silly today.

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I like having tons of TU's and the huge range of options it presents (like different TU costs to fire a weapon).  I like being able to for every soldier being able to do everything if necessary.

I'm not going to disagree about the old X-COM's ruleset being a strong one, but you're being way too reactionary and dismissive about the one Firaxis is building for their new XCOM.  As long as there's consequences to movement (such as reaction fire), you have the same risk-reward analysis to make as you did in UFO Defense/Enemy Unknown, when determining where to move your soldiers.  As long as there are a variety of possibilities available for the standard action, then you have the same opportunity costs to consider, when determining what to do with that standard action.

Let's stop for a second and honestly think about how a turn plays out with TUs.  You'd spend a chunk on movement and either shoot during your turn, reserve some for reaction fire, or blow all your TUs on movement.  On some rare occasions, you may start a turn with a target in sight and eschew movement in favor of firing additional shots.  Because each weapon used a percentage of the soldier's TUs, rather than a fixed number of TUs, gaining more TUs was really just equivalent to increasing the character's movement speed and their ability to manipulate their inventory during combat.  You didn't really fill your backpack with alternative weapons to swap them about, based on what TUs you had available, when you were ready to shoot; you adjusted your movement habits, so that at the end of each move, you'd have TUs reserved for the type of shot you wanted to take.

So, in the original X-COM, you'd consciously break your turn down into a move action and an attack action.  Firaxis' version just has the core mechanic do that breakdown for you.  A soldier who would have fewer TUs in UFO Defense can be represented by a soldier with a smaller movement range in the new system.  A soldier with a weapon that fires a quicker snap shot in the old system can be represented by having a larger range available for a single-move in the new system.  The only options lost, based on what's been explicitly told to us, is the ability to stand still and spend the whole round shooting (and I'm almost willing to bet that a full-round attack option is so assumed to be available that it just hasn't warranted an explicit mention yet) and the ability to have a soldier burn his entire turn faffing around with the contents of his inventory.

What about a TU-like system that has a wider variety of actions available?  I've been playing quite a bit of Silent Storm lately, which offers units much more to do with their action points (time units) than move and shoot.  The turns still neatly break down into a move action and a standard action, though, since a character taking time to plant a bomb, disarm a bomb, pick a lock, pillage a locker, or break line-of-sight and hide is typically taking that action in lieu of firing a weapon.  What's it matter if you take that action burning the TUs you'd use to fire or use the standard action that you'd use to fire?  It's the same opportunity cost, regardless of how that cost is conveyed to the player.

To your point about rigid class-based limitations, I can see both sides of the argument.  Trained soldiers can figure out which end of a rocket launcher is the business end, without needing training specific to that weapon.  At the same time, though, when certain units have unique capabilities, that increases the value of that unit in combat.  Let's face it:  In X-COM, if you needed a rocket launcher to proceed with whatever strategy you had in mind, the value of your heavy weapons guy was inversely proportional to his proximity to the next soldier capable of carrying that rocket launcher.  If there's a rigid class structure that says only specifically trained soldiers can use rocket launchers, then you either make sure to bring multiples of them on your mission; you protect your heavy weapons guy like the mission depends on it, or you have to be prepared to rework your entire strategy, should your heavy weapons guy bite the dust.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 05:58:24 pm by BlueFlames »

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
Either I missed that particular episode of Looney Toons, or you've somehow confused Firaxis' strategy game with 2k Marin's FPS.

I mean, these are dudes in armor.  Compared to the Personal Armor in UFO Defense, Firaxis has kind of toned it down.  Yes, the heavy weapons guy is in a bigger suit, presumably so that it looks like something that can realistically take a shot.  Yes, the sniper is in something much less substantial, presumably so that he can worm his way around the battlefield more easily.

I don't like the design. The heavy weapons guy looks fat. His hands are wider then the girls torso.

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This is, incidentally, the part where I think you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing.  If you wanted to say that the environments are too ****ing brown, like every "gritty" action game on the planet, then you'd have a decent point.

No I wouldn't. "Gritty" and "generic" are two most mis-placed and mis-used and over-used complants ever.



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You can look at WoW and say it's too cartoony.  You can look at those shoulder pads and say it's too cartoony.  When you look at that burning sports bar, covered in smoke and soot and call it too cartoony, you surrender quite a lot of credibility.

I'm not loosing anything. If our definition of cartoon is giant shoulderpads, then your definition is WRONG.
A stylized human looks cartoony.



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Don't even try to start that.  No, the technology was not available for super-high-fidelity imagry, but developers still had the capability of consciously choosing an art style.  Microprose chose massive shoulder pads and huge, center-parted hair.  They chose flying saucers, green-and-purple musclemen, and anthropomorphized snakes.  Pong didn't have any room for visual artistic styling.  MUDs didn't have any room for visual artistic styling.  UFO Defense did, and they chose a style that comes across as vaguely silly today.

That style however WORKS with the old 2d graphics.


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I like having tons of TU's and the huge range of options it presents (like different TU costs to fire a weapon).  I like being able to for every soldier being able to do everything if necessary.

I'm not going to disagree about the old X-COM's ruleset being a strong one, but you're being way too reactionary and dismissive about the one Firaxis is building for their new XCOM.  As long as there's consequences to movement (such as reaction fire), you have the same risk-reward analysis to make as you did in UFO Defense/Enemy Unknown, when determining where to move your soldiers.

no, I don't. the TU system offers you more variety as you have a far greater range of costs.
Take for example the difference between weapons - all take 1 action to shoot. Some may take two. That's it. That's the only difference between weapons you can have in this category. In the old system, not only did individual weapons have different TU costs, but also different fire modes with different costs. That gave TONS of variety.

And movement too. In this new system it doesn't matter if you moved to the max of your allowed movement or if you only moved 1-2 squares - either way the entire movement phase is spent. In the old system it did matter. Every TU mattered.


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I've been playing quite a bit of Silent Storm lately, which offers units much more to do with their action points (time units) than move and shoot.  The turns still neatly break down into a move action and a standard action 

Not really.
The devil is in te details. In the old system you can run out of cover, throw a greneade, take a snap shot and run back into cover.


[quoteg
To your point about rigid class-based limitations, I can see both sides of the argument.  Trained soldiers can figure out which end of a rocket launcher is the business end, without needing training specific to that weapon.  At the same time, though, when certain units have unique capabilities, that increases the value of that unit in combat. [/quote]

Which is why some soldiers are more able than others. But none is UNable.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
I will miss being able to toss items between operatives. Not much else from the whole inventory thing though.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: X-COM Enemy Unknown by Firaxis
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I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved

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I'm not loosing anything. If our definition of cartoon is giant shoulderpads, then your definition is WRONG.
A stylized human looks cartoony.

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That style however WORKS with the old 2d graphics.

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I'm more pissed at the name of the game and being called a sucessor to X-Com than the actual game. It feels like false advertising and an insult to my intelligence.

X-Com is cartoony.  Changing that would be false advertising and an insult to your intelligence.