[Bobboau]

The basic problem is this, we cannot confirm our senses independent of our senses. i.e. we might all be in a matrix, or having a dream, or be characters in someone else's dream. Can we know that reality exists at all? If we define reality as the physical universe it appears to be, then I don't think we can, however, if we define it slightly looser, maybe as 'the source from which our sensory information originates' then perhaps we can? if this works, and we can know that reality does in fact exist, can we know if our actions truly are effecting it?

we have some philosophy majors here right?

[Nuke]

http://xkcd.com/220/

[Mongoose]

I didn't want to be the one to link that, but pretty much that.

Or in other words, "Does it even matter?"

[Nuke]

the universe is a figment of your imagination. to see the real world you must first nuke the universe.

[deathfun]

I already had this conversation in another forum once before

The jist of what I said is that there is no true reality. It is all simply a perception based upon what we see, feel, hear, taste and smell. Our perception does not always coincide with someone else's, thus leading us trying to define which of the two is true when in reality, they both are

Same goes for the truth. The truth is as we see it, and reality is as we see to define it.

[castor]

Something seems to exist, that is the reality.

[Qent]

Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7. Activity recorded M.Y. 2302.22467. (TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED)

[Bobboau]

Something seems to exist

perception is not reality, how do you know that what you sense is true.

they both are

what leads you to dismiss the possibility that neither are

[Sushi]

My take on this:

It doesn't really matter. What we perceive could be real or it could so perfectly simulated so as to not be able to tell the difference. Given that we have no way of knowing, why worry about it? Down that road lies nothing but madness. Better to just assume it's real enough and get on with life.

[Bobboau]

I never said it mattered, only that it would be fun to try and answer the question, if we can't it doesn't suddenly mean we don't exist anymore.

[redsniper]

Yes it does. AAAAAAaaahhhhhh *poof*

[Col. Fishguts]

Go read some Kant... not that you will get any answers out of it, but he filled whole books about exactly this.

[IronBeer]

"Cogito ergo sum"

If that's not enough, then we'll need the squirt bottle.

[Bobboau]

I accept that much, I am fairly sure that I can say that I know that I exist because i would not be able to ponder the question if I did not.

[NGTM-1R]

perception is not reality, how do you know that what you sense is true.

The alternative, to assume that what we sense is not real, is unuseful sophistry. Nothing can be accomplished by it.

[Bobboau]

I'm not saying it is a bad assumption, I'm just trying to see if we can push any further beyond assumption and towards proving it is true, I accept that this discussion is of minimal usefulness.

[watsisname]

the universe is a figment of your imagination. to see the real world you must first nuke the universe.

I read that in Carl Sagan's voice. :V

[Nuke]

give that man a cookie!

[deathfun]

what leads you to dismiss the possibility that neither are

That's the ultimate paradox isn't it?
They both are, and aren't at the same time. It's simply up to us to decide

But as stated prior, it is easier to dwell on the "is" rather than the "isn't" thus my use of "they both are" instead of "they both aren't". One leads to bliss, the other to madness

[Unknown Target]

The basic problem is this, we cannot confirm our senses independent of our senses. i.e. we might all be in a matrix, or having a dream, or be characters in someone else's dream. Can we know that reality exists at all? If we define reality as the physical universe it appears to be, then I don't think we can, however, if we define it slightly looser, maybe as 'the source from which our sensory information originates' then perhaps we can? if this works, and we can know that reality does in fact exist, can we know if our actions truly are effecting it?

we have some philosophy majors here right?

This is what I came up with awhile ago;


If, in my own reality, the laws of that physical reality state that there must have been creatures before me for my being to evolve, which would require a period during which I did not exist to comprehend or create a reality, then  recursively there must be a reality external to the one percieved by my mind. This is supplemented by the fact that individuals percieved as existing by my mind can disagree with my assured view of the current state of reality. Should this reality only have existed within my own mind, their existence would simply not be comprehensible. I would have no impetuous to even imagine of them being possible - like a caveman thinking of what a computer is.

What do you think?