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Offline Grey Wolf

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Reply #100 on: June 20, 2002, 08:39:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich


Well now, that depends on how far back you want to go. If we were to go all the way back to Biblical times, I think that the only nation older than Israel is Egypt, which has remained pretty much as-is to this day.
You knew what I meant! I meant the current state of Israel, which bears little resemblance to the Biblical state.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw
 

Offline Styxx

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Reply #101 on: June 20, 2002, 11:33:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich
Well now, that depends on how far back you want to go. If we were to go all the way back to Biblical times, I think that the only nation older than Israel is Egypt, which has remained pretty much as-is to this day.


You mean territory-wise, right? :D
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Offline Sandwich

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Reply #102 on: June 21, 2002, 04:42:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
You knew what I meant! I meant the current state of Israel, which bears little resemblance to the Biblical state.


Actually, it doeesn't matter one way or the other. You see, this fight is not about land, no matter how much noise they may make. It's not about the right of return, or anything like that. Oh, I'm sure that there are plenty of Palestinians who _are_ only concerned with getting their land back, returning to the places they used to dwell in. But that's not the ultimate driving force behind it all.

Someone I was talking with by email said this:

Quote
A thought experiment I like to bring up whenever I encounter a pro-Palestinian person with the standard "Palestinians only want peace" sign:

- Assume that tomorrow, all of Europe, all of North America, the southern half of Africa, and the bulk of southeast asia disappeared.
- At the same time, assume 99% of all Israeli weapons ceased functioning.
- How many hours do you think it would be before the Arab world made sure that the Jewish people were well on their way to being extinct?

Only the most deluded of people will try and say "oh, no way....".


Which brings up a very valid point. The fact that Israel has won the wars waged against her by her Arab, Muslim neighbors for the past 50 years is quite simply a disgrace to the name of Allah. In their eyes, it is a sign that the God of the Jews is greater than the god of Islam. Which is a disgrace, not only to those nations who have been defeated in battle, but to all true Muslims world-wide.

Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
You mean territory-wise, right? :D


Yeah, certainly not power- / empire- wise! :p
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Snakeseyes

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Reply #103 on: June 21, 2002, 06:02:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich


Well now, that depends on how far back you want to go. If we were to go all the way back to Biblical times, I think that the only nation older than Israel is Egypt, which has remained pretty much as-is to this day.


If you talk about middle east, there were other nations that go back as Egypt and Israel, like arabs, finicians, their decendants I believe live now in Lebanon, and others.

Now, If you are not talking about middle east but about a more general area, then there are numerous of other nations that predated you, and even some of them had colonies in middle east, like the greeks had the filistei(sp?).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2002, 06:05:23 am by 85 »
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Offline Sandwich

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Reply #104 on: June 21, 2002, 06:15:18 am
Quote
Originally posted by Snakeseyes


If you talk about middle east, there were other nations that go back as Egypt and Israel, like arabs, finicians, their decendants I believe live now in Lebanon, and others.

Now, If you are not talking about middle east but about a more general area, then there are numerous of other nations that predated you, and even some of them had colonies in middle east, like the greeks had the filistei(sp?).


Nahh, I was just pointing out how there are quite a number of Arab states in the Mid-East area, but only one Jewish state, and they don't even want us to have that! :doubt:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Snakeseyes

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Reply #105 on: June 21, 2002, 06:30:46 am
I just heard about the attacks in the occupied territory by palestinians, what's going down there?
For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
-Blaise Pascal
 

Offline Sandwich

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Reply #106 on: June 21, 2002, 10:13:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Snakeseyes
I just heard about the attacks in the occupied territory by palestinians, what's going down there?


Which attacks are you referring to? The terror attacks, or the retaliation?
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Snakeseyes

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Reply #107 on: June 21, 2002, 10:31:19 am
I mean both.
For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
-Blaise Pascal
 

Offline Sandwich

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Reply #108 on: June 21, 2002, 10:35:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by Snakeseyes
I mean both.


Well, read for yourself: www.jpost.com
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline wEvil

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Reply #109 on: June 21, 2002, 10:57:44 am
Bleddy hell.
They just don't stop, do they?
 

Offline Zeronet

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Reply #110 on: June 21, 2002, 02:17:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich


Well, read for yourself: www.jpost.com


I was reading that just the other day.
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Offline RoachKoach

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Reply #111 on: June 21, 2002, 02:26:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
Bleddy hell.
They just don't stop, do they?


they cant stop, what will they do once they stop?
they need a face saving way of getting out of the violence they started, and there isnt any way, so they'll continue, just to make a point. Atleast Israel can retaliate, and have its tanks n troops rolling thru palestinian settlements. out here if we so much as even try doing that, even half a mile across the LOC, and itll be war.

When u are unique, u are hated, and Israel is one hell of a unique nation
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Offline Grey Wolf

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Reply #112 on: June 21, 2002, 07:38:04 pm
You have to remember, part of the flashpoint for this current conflict was Ariel Sharon's perceived insult to the Palestinians on Temple Mount.

And also, why the hell do people fight over and end up defiling what they are trying to protect? This whole conflict could very well be construed as blasphemy and sacrilege. Fighting on holy ground is bad....
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw
  

Offline Sandwich

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Reply #113 on: June 22, 2002, 06:13:32 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
You have to remember, part of the flashpoint for this current conflict was Ariel Sharon's perceived insult to the Palestinians on Temple Mount.


Ok, I'm sorry, but that just pisses me off (and you all know how hard it is for me to get pissed...). Not at you, GW, but that "reason" thing... a bunch of BS.

Ariel Sharon visited the Temple Mount, not the freakin' Dome of the Rock!! And the Temple mount is (assuming these things can be measured and compared) far more of a holy spot to the Jews than the Dome is to the Muslims.

And yes, I see you wrote "perceived". And that's just the thing. It's bad enough that the Palestinians used that as an excuse; it just made them look like whiny children throwing temper tantrums. But for the world to "accept" that as a "legitimate" reason to get upset?!?! They should have told the PA "What the heck are you complaining about?! Stop being such cry-babies and grow up!". But noooo.... the world proved itself to be even more of an idiot for accepting that excuse.

So that's my Sabbath Rant™. *sigh* Shabbat shalom, y'all. :doubt:
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Dr.Zer0

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Reply #114 on: June 22, 2002, 06:49:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich


Ok, I'm sorry, but that just pisses me off (and you all know how hard it is for me to get pissed...). Not at you, GW, but that "reason" thing... a bunch of BS.

Ariel Sharon visited the Temple Mount, not the freakin' Dome of the Rock!! And the Temple mount is (assuming these things can be measured and compared) far more of a holy spot to the Jews than the Dome is to the Muslims.

And yes, I see you wrote "perceived". And that's just the thing. It's bad enough that the Palestinians used that as an excuse; it just made them look like whiny children throwing temper tantrums. But for the world to "accept" that as a "legitimate" reason to get upset?!?! They should have told the PA "What the heck are you complaining about?! Stop being such cry-babies and grow up!". But noooo.... the world proved itself to be even more of an idiot for accepting that excuse.

So that's my Sabbath Rant™. *sigh* Shabbat shalom, y'all. :doubt:


one thing I  feel like doing is just whiping out their holy land and see what they would do without  :doubt:
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Offline Styxx

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Reply #115 on: June 22, 2002, 12:55:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich
Shabbat shalom, y'all. :doubt:


Eh? As far as I know, you could be calling us all names or something... :D :p
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Offline Snakeseyes

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Reply #116 on: June 22, 2002, 03:08:58 pm
I believe that means "have a nice saturday", though not sure.
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Offline Sandwich

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Reply #117 on: June 23, 2002, 03:28:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by Snakeseyes
I believe that means "have a nice saturday", though not sure.


Shabbat = Sabbath (Saturday, day of rest)
Shalom = Hello, Goodbye, or in this case, Peace(ful)
Y'all = Uhhhh... I don't really have to translate this one, do I? :wtf: :nervous:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
 

Offline Bobboau

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Reply #118 on: June 23, 2002, 04:03:52 am
your profile says Jerusalem, but you seem to be from more of a southern part of Isrial for some reason
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Offline Sandwich

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Reply #119 on: June 23, 2002, 04:30:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
your profile says Jerusalem, but you seem to be from more of a southern part of Isrial for some reason


:doubt: What gives you that feeling? My use of "Y'all"? :p

To be honest, Gilo (my neighborhood) is the southernmost part of Jerusalem, right across the valley from Bethlehem, which is to the south. But "south" in Israel doesn't have the same connotations as it does in the US. :D
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill
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