[BritishShivans]

a form of autism

a form of autism

a form of autism

YOU STUPID ****ING ****

ASPERGERS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FORM OF DISORDER TO AUTISM, YOU WORTHLESS SACK OF FECAL MATTER

AND BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO BE STUPID, I AM AUTISTIC MYSELF AND HAVE BEEN AROUND MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHARED MY DISORDER, HAD ADHD, OR ASPERGERS.

****ing pieces of ****. And don't you even think of whining to me about *you're so meanie!!!111*. **** you. I have a right to be pissed off. People thinking that Aspergers is autism are ****ing stupid, and help remove many forms of help for the autistic and make it harder to GET help in the first place.

I was lucky, even though I don't believe in luck. I was born before the autistic had institutionalized help, and I was fortunate enough to have the signs noticed by my mother, and she took me to a specialist who recognized what I had straight away. I had help.

But I still struggled, as the environment I was in was pure ****. Bad teachers, bad children, almost bad everything. I refuse to watch others who share my so-called "condition". I refuse to watch them be forced to put up with the same bull**** that I had to struggle through. Autism is a form of underdevelopment, and Aspergers is a developmental issue where one's social abilities do not develop properly as one ages. None of these are diseases, nor are they mental illnesses. By the way, call me mentally ill, and I will EAT YOUR ****ING LIMBS.

If you legitimately think that autism is Aspergers or vice-versa, you are an idiot and have obviously not done your research. Also, I find such things to be snide remarks against my intelligence, even if they are not directed at me, because it usually proposes the stupid idea that the autistic are mentally ill, which is untrue. It is however possible to have a mental illness as well as autism, but again, they are not the same. Correlation does not imply causation.

Now, if anyone here wants to throw stupid **** around about autism or similar disorders, I will rip into your arguments and kill them. Bloodily.

Kapeesh? Also, I am not cranky or stressed. I am however infuriated by the stupidity of the above article. (I am aware I may be derailing the topic.)

[headdie]

My understanding is that Autism is a spectrum disorder of which Aspergers forms one part. while I have not lived with the condition in myself I have had the mixed fortune of living with my sister who is a largely functional Aspergers in that she can sustain herself for several days in a new environment without direct support from our parents or close friends but is characterised by social awkwardness from inability to comprehend emotional interactions with other people, audio hypersensitivity, fixation on a small number of subjects and panic attacks from situations she doesn't understand.

[NGTM-1R]

Most countries do that for cars but would America be willing to accept the same amount of responsibility for guns that they currently accept for cars?

In all likelihood, yes.

Not because they'd accept your hyperbolic and hilarious example about home-checkups though, because they're generally not required to take that degree of responsibility for their cars either. Such laws are administered at the state level and vary. Virginia, for example, requires a yearly safety inspection to ensure all your lights work among other things; this is typically combined with a smog check. If the safety inspection is failed, you have thirty days to fix it or they take away your car. California does a smog check every four years or so, but doesn't require safety inspections ever (though it's still a crime to drive around with broken lights, many people do it anyways).

The point is, this idea people are going to be sent out to check on your gun-storage procedure would never happen (hi it's an amendment to the constitution against unreasonable search and seizure that means you're never going to get agents of law enforcement into a home without a warrant or crime committed on the premises); you'd probably be told to buy a trigger lock and bring gun and trigger lock in so it could be certified you know how to use the thing, and you'd be up for additional charges or made criminally liable for crimes or injuries committed if the gun was stored improperly. (Which would be difficult to prove in most cases.)

That's realistic. That's something that could actually happen. ATF agents isn't.

[karajorma]

So it's basically worthless then. People will buy the safe and then throw it in a skip, or at the very least not lock it. They'll buy a trigger lock and then leave it in a drawer somewhere unused and probably never even removed from the packaging.

Like I keep saying, the will isn't there to do something about the problem.

And quite frankly, I don't believe the optimism on this thread that people would agree to any of the things I suggested. If everyone was really willing, why hasn't someone done it before? I severely doubt I'm the first person ever to suggest it.

[Fineus]

BritishShivans - Rein it in a bit please? Check your PM inbox.

[Luis Dias]

ASPERGERS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FORM OF DISORDER TO AUTISM

While I can understand your frustration, you could perhaps understand that the people who say "Aspergers is a form of autism" are not being ignorant, they are merely reciting the present day definition of it as put by every dictionary available.

Take for instance Wikipedia:

Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's syndrome or Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

[MP-Ryan]

So it's basically worthless then. People will buy the safe and then throw it in a skip, or at the very least not lock it. They'll buy a trigger lock and then leave it in a drawer somewhere unused and probably never even removed from the packaging.

Not true.  Canada has safe storage/possession/use laws that state exactly the sorts of things I've talked about, and while police have the right of inspection (FYI, NGTM-1R, regulatory inspections are not subject to the same scrutiny as criminal proceedings and therefore can bypass warrant requirements, even in the US - this is why your baggage can be searched at the border), it is rarely exercised except on a complaints basis.  Yet, despite the seeming non-enforcement, the tiny number of accidental deaths attributed to improper storage of firearms in Canada belies the notion that strict and regular enforcement is a requirement to ensure people follow these laws.

Yes, US culture is different but if you pay attention to what's happening in politics and public opinion now, I think this Newtown mess has created more of an impetus to do something than any mass-murder before it.  Something about 20 dead 5-7 year-olds has triggered the common sense region of the American "gun nut" brain.

[MP-Ryan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/local-official-laments-newtowns-love-affair-with-guns/article6550842/

I have a number of friends in the States, and while I've heard them talk about the fetishization of guns in the US before, an excerpt from this article really drives the point home that gun culture in the US is seriously screwed up and an attitude shift needs to accompany any change in legislation:

For much of the year, second-amendment defenders have been packing [Newtown] town-council committee rooms to fight a proposed ordinance that would restrict backyard target shooting, a round-the-clock hobby that has become the subject of persistent noise complaints. The ordinance would restrict recreational target practice to police-approved ranges.

The police chief, who endorsed the measure, complained during debates that one resident had been using military-grade weapons to detonate propane tanks in his backyard.

Despite the chief’s concerns, 60 residents packed one meeting, according to the Newtown Bee, with just one of them speaking in favour of the ordinance, which has yet to pass.

[MP-Ryan]

of course when it comes to guns for personal and home defense things get iffy. if someone breaks into your house they are probibly aren't going to like you when they see you frantically trying to open the gun safe or get the trigger lock off your pistol so you can put a bullet or two through them. and if you live in such a dangerous part of town (or grizzly territory) that you need a gun you are probibly better off training everyone in the household in their use than not. people who buy guns for defense usually do so as a reaction to already well armed criminals. and had the criminals not had guns, they would not have needed them either. this is merely a survival strategy in a second amendment world.

This is my favorite NRA-promoted myth of all.

How many home invasions occur annually in the United States?
How many of those home invasions are successfully stopped with no injuries to the residents because they had a firearm at hand?
How many people die annually in the US due to accidental discharges from improperly stored firearms in the home?

I can tell you right now that without even looking up the numbers this year, there are far more people killed (by an order of 10 or more) by accidental firearms discharges due to weapons stored improperly in the home than there are home invasions stopped because the resident had a gun.  Home invasions are rare; accidental deaths are not.  The 'myth' of home defense is precisely that, yet it's one that seems regularly bought into by otherwise rational Americans.

As for animals, while I know a few people in northern Canadian communities who keep rifles at hand because polar bears have a nasty habit of trundling through the middle of town, - which is perfectly reasonable, and you can keep the rifle trigger-locked or the bolt out because the bears aren't breaking down doors, you have time to load and ready the gun if going outside - I grew up in grizzly country.  Our guns and bear spray were kept in a locked gun safe, with trigger locks on them.  In all the years I lived there, no one died from a bear mauling in the area, nor were there serious injuries sustained anywhere near a home.  Sure, Alaska is a different type of bear country from the BC interior, but if you have bears breaking into your house you need to renovate your house, not store guns irresponsibly.

[headdie]

Related Tangent TB has posted a non-monetised video on the sections media's slant about it being caused by computer games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4

[General Battuta]

a form of autism

a form of autism

a form of autism

YOU STUPID ****ING ****

ASPERGERS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FORM OF DISORDER TO AUTISM, YOU WORTHLESS SACK OF FECAL MATTER

AND BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO BE STUPID, I AM AUTISTIC MYSELF AND HAVE BEEN AROUND MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHARED MY DISORDER, HAD ADHD, OR ASPERGERS.

Wait, hang on a second.

If you legitimately think that autism is Aspergers or vice-versa, you are an idiot and have obviously not done your research. Also, I find such things to be snide remarks against my intelligence, even if they are not directed at me, because it usually proposes the stupid idea that the autistic are mentally ill, which is untrue. It is however possible to have a mental illness as well as autism, but again, they are not the same. Correlation does not imply causation.

I'm in psychology, and as far as I know, psychologists recently voted to amend the DSM to remove Asperger's as a diagnosis. Asperger's is now recognized as simply a form of autism.

To quote the first random article I googled up

The clinical diagnosis for Asperger’s syndrome will be removed in the next edition of the American Psychiatric Association psychiatrists’ diagnostic guide.

The fifth version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM-V, will come out in May and Asperger’s will be notably absent, replaced with the broader definition of “autism spectrum disorder.” Previously, Asperger’s was thought to be a milder form of autism.

The choice to remove the definition from the DSM, sometimes referred to as the psychiatric bible, has been much-debated and is opposed by some who think the change in definition will exclude some patients from diagnosis, and could mean they don’t get the treatment and services they need.

“Our fear is that we are going to take a big step backward,” Lori Shery, president of the Asperger Syndrome Education Network, told The New York Times in January. “If clinicians say, ‘These kids don’t fit the criteria for an autism spectrum diagnosis,’ they are not going to get the supports and services they need, and they’re going to experience failure.”

Not everyone who has been diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome disagrees, however.

Joshua Muggleton, a psychology student who has been diagnosed with Asperger’s, writes in The Guardian: “…after looking at the research I was forced to conclude that actually, the DSM-V is a big step in the right direction. For years, studies have been suggesting that autism and Asperger’s syndrome are the same condition, differentiated only by level of impairment.”

Now, you're free to disagree with the scientific community on this one...but for the moment the scientific consensus appears to be that Asperger's is autism.

[Mika]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between a higher functioning autist and an Asperger?

Also, who else thinks that the shooter himself is also a victim? And not only a victim, but the first victim?

[Lorric]

Calm yourself BritishShivans.

Asperger's syndrome is a type of autism. That is a fact. Autism is too complex a disorder to just call it autism and lump everyone into the same pigeonhole, it needs breaking down into subtypes. I have been aware of the term for about 20 years or so, and all that time it has been a form of autism.

In other news, word is Americans are buying up guns now in fear of gun control.

[BritishShivans]

Autism is a form of underdevelopment. If you're autistic, you'll usually be born with a lack of social functions you would normally have (i.e understanding facial expressions, or emotions such as happiness.) and some physical ones. You need to be "taught" these things, so to speak. Autism is a spectrum, so it can vary wildly from the minor to the severe.

Aspergers is just as diverse as autism, but like autism, it also has a core group of symptoms that are defined as "being" Aspergers. My own observations, based upon my friends and what I've seen, is that people with Aspergers develop normally in minor cases, but have difficulty extending their feelings to others, and in severe cases, may have trouble extending empathy. There also seems to be common "trust" issue that is actually quite similar to what a number of autistics in the middle of the spectrum have, due to them not being able to understand others as easily.

As for Bats, I'm quite aware that Aspergers is related to Autism. That however does not mean they are the same ****ing thing, and labeling Autism as being Aspergers or Aspergers as Autism is a stupid and most certainly idiotic idea, as they might share the same issues or traits, they are two completely different problems to each other, and both require a different approach.

More so, on the Aspergers side of things, it's very rare for them to literally lack understanding of emotions or faces. Unlike Aspergers, inability to understand certain things which the human brain would usually be programmed with is one of the defining traits of autism.

Hell, when I was younger, I literally didn't understand what anger or what certain facial expressions or gestures meant. I had to learn those things. So I know they're related - my point is that it's stupid to label them as being the same problem, because anyone with a functioning brain should be able to realize that it's pretty obvious they have different problems from each other, despite sharing a few.

[Lorric]

Autism is a form of underdevelopment. If you're autistic, you'll usually be born with a lack of social functions you would normally have (i.e understanding facial expressions, or emotions such as happiness.) and some physical ones. You need to be "taught" these things, so to speak. Autism is a spectrum, so it can vary wildly from the minor to the severe.

Aspergers is just as diverse as autism, but like autism, it also has a core group of symptoms that are defined as "being" Aspergers. My own observations, based upon my friends and what I've seen, is that people with Aspergers develop normally in minor cases, but have difficulty extending their feelings to others, and in severe cases, may have trouble extending empathy. There also seems to be common "trust" issue that is actually quite similar to what a number of autistics in the middle of the spectrum have, due to them not being able to understand others as easily.

As for Bats, I'm quite aware that Aspergers is related to Autism. That however does not mean they are the same ****ing thing, and labeling Autism as being Aspergers or Aspergers as Autism is a stupid and most certainly idiotic idea, as they might share the same issues or traits, they are two completely different problems to each other, and both require a different approach.

More so, on the Aspergers side of things, it's very rare for them to literally lack understanding of emotions or faces. Unlike Aspergers, inability to understand certain things which the human brain would usually be programmed with is one of the defining traits of autism.

Hell, when I was younger, I literally didn't understand what anger or what certain facial expressions or gestures meant. I had to learn those things. So I know they're related - my point is that it's stupid to label them as being the same problem, because anyone with a functioning brain should be able to realize that it's pretty obvious they have different problems from each other, despite sharing a few.

Oh, is your problem then people thinking autism and aspergers are exactly the same, not that aspergers is part of the spectrum then?

[BritishShivans]

Autism is a form of underdevelopment. If you're autistic, you'll usually be born with a lack of social functions you would normally have (i.e understanding facial expressions, or emotions such as happiness.) and some physical ones. You need to be "taught" these things, so to speak. Autism is a spectrum, so it can vary wildly from the minor to the severe.

Aspergers is just as diverse as autism, but like autism, it also has a core group of symptoms that are defined as "being" Aspergers. My own observations, based upon my friends and what I've seen, is that people with Aspergers develop normally in minor cases, but have difficulty extending their feelings to others, and in severe cases, may have trouble extending empathy. There also seems to be common "trust" issue that is actually quite similar to what a number of autistics in the middle of the spectrum have, due to them not being able to understand others as easily.

As for Bats, I'm quite aware that Aspergers is related to Autism. That however does not mean they are the same ****ing thing, and labeling Autism as being Aspergers or Aspergers as Autism is a stupid and most certainly idiotic idea, as they might share the same issues or traits, they are two completely different problems to each other, and both require a different approach.

More so, on the Aspergers side of things, it's very rare for them to literally lack understanding of emotions or faces. Unlike Aspergers, inability to understand certain things which the human brain would usually be programmed with is one of the defining traits of autism.

Hell, when I was younger, I literally didn't understand what anger or what certain facial expressions or gestures meant. I had to learn those things. So I know they're related - my point is that it's stupid to label them as being the same problem, because anyone with a functioning brain should be able to realize that it's pretty obvious they have different problems from each other, despite sharing a few.

Oh, is your problem then people thinking autism and aspergers are exactly the same, not that aspergers is part of the spectrum then?

Obviously, you moron. 

[Lorric]

Obviously, you moron. 

That is uncalled for.

[MP-Ryan]

I think most people around here know and accept the psychology consensus - that Asperger's is one manifestation of Autism Spectrum Disorder.  Asperger's and autistic disorder are both part of ASD, but have different diagnostic criteria.

You seem to be strongly overreacting to a perceived slight which doesn't really exist in this thread, and your overreaction is currently harming, rather than helping, the case you're trying to make.

[General Battuta]

As for Bats, I'm quite aware that Aspergers is related to Autism. That however does not mean they are the same ****ing thing, and labeling Autism as being Aspergers or Aspergers as Autism is a stupid and most certainly idiotic idea, as they might share the same issues or traits, they are two completely different problems to each other, and both require a different approach.

Apparently the psychological community disagrees, as 'Aspergers' has been eliminated as a separate concept. As of this December, it's all positions on the autism spectrum under the DSM V.

I have no dog in this fight since I'm nowhere near the part of the scientific community that deals with these things, and I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but my understanding is that Asperger's as a separate diagnosis has ceased to exist. Anyone with the diagnosis would, I guess, be relabeled with high-functioning autism?

[headdie]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between a higher functioning autist and an Asperger?

Also, who else thinks that the shooter himself is also a victim? And not only a victim, but the first victim?

http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-and-asperger-syndrome-an-introduction/what-is-autism.aspx
Autism is a lifelong developmental disability that affects how a person communicates with, and relates to, other people. It also affects how they make sense of the world around them.

It is a spectrum condition, which means that, while all people with autism share certain difficulties, their condition will affect them in different ways. Some people with autism are able to live relatively independent lives but others may have accompanying learning disabilities and need a lifetime of specialist support. People with autism may also experience over- or under-sensitivity to sounds, touch, tastes, smells, light or colours.

Asperger syndrome is a form of autism. People with Asperger syndrome are often of average or above average intelligence. They have fewer problems with speech but may still have difficulties with understanding and processing language.

below is a direct link to the Asperger section of the site
http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-and-asperger-syndrome-an-introduction/what-is-asperger-syndrome.aspx

When I say my sister is higher functioning she is defiantly autistic and easily identified as such by anyone with experience with autistic people, at the same time though she is fairly independent, she has attended uni travelling from home to uni when she has lectures, and recently travelled to Italy for a few days on her own but there is no way she could cope with living on her own, there are too many pitfalls to cause panic attacks and the like not to mention day to day pit falls like preparing her own food as she is afraid of cookers, ovens and the like.  Also while she finds social interaction tricky due to inability to read emotions she is able to form friendships and able to communicate with them face to face.  Also while she has a few fixation topics she is more open to take in information and due to her IQ is fairly good at retaining that information and using it.  Co-ordination is another area she has difficulty in but again not as severe as many and can do things like swimming with a fir degree of competence. and lastly but most fortunately she does not to our knowledgeable have any of the other mental problems associated aside from anxiety which is being managed without drugs with a large degree of sucsess