Author Topic: OH U IRAN U  (Read 12480 times)

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Offline Nuke

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What puzzles me is that they didn't use Farsi.

this is not meant for their people. its meant to intimidate its rivals. unfortunately they underestimated the quality of our built in bull**** detectors.
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this is not meant for their people. its meant to intimidate its rivals. unfortunately they underestimated the quality of our built in bull**** detectors.
Nah come on, they can't seriously expect any of us 'rivals' to fall for that. These people are running a country with 75 million inhabitants, they couldn't possibly be that naive... could they? :nervous:

Given that it was 'unveiled at the anniversary of the 1979 revolution' and currently 'on public display', I'd say this is meant to impress the 99% of the indigenous population that does buy it. I.e. just another propaganda stunt.

  

Offline NGTM-1R

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Nah come on, they can't seriously expect any of us 'rivals' to fall for that. These people are running a country with 75 million inhabitants, they couldn't possibly be that naive... could they? :nervous:

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When it comes to living inside a vacuum, you have to go to North Korea to do it better.

Not so sure on that, actually. I met a couple Iranian students in the Netherlands (faculty of aerospace engineering - oh, the irony :D), and they never struck me as being off-the-world or living-under-a-rock. At least, not nearly as much as the Chinese.

Iran also had its own Arab Spring, remember? It was beaten down, but nonetheless it shows that the Iranian people are generally aware of what's happening around them. It seems unfair to throw them on a bunch with North Korea, where the government is truly totalitarian and - IIRC - internet connections are not even allowed for private individuals.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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It seems unfair to throw them on a bunch with North Korea, where the government is truly totalitarian and - IIRC - internet connections are not even allowed for private individuals.

I'm not saying it's not a vast difference between them an the DPRK, but that is the next step up. It's a fairly big step, but it's still the next step.
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Offline Bobboau

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It looks kinda, not good...

Yes well, thats what the enemy will think, get it?

I see. Very good, it even fooled me!
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Offline newman

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Yep, I'm sure that was the plan. First, build the best stealth fighter ever. Then make it look like it's crap. While the Americans are busy laughing, attack and have a single plane take out all carrier battlegroups, NORAD, and Chuck Norris all in one strike.
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Offline deathfun

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Yep, I'm sure that was the plan. First, build the best stealth fighter ever. Then make it look like it's crap. While the Americans are busy laughing, attack and have a single plane take out all carrier battlegroups, NORAD, and Chuck Norris all in one strike.

Why got through all that effort when you can just break into Fort Knox and taint the supply of gold with a dirty bomb?
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Offline Thaeris

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Ahmadinejad is an engineer, he must have been holding back the laughter when he saw that thing...

He's a Civil Engineer. If it isn't an I-beam, concrete or a Teamster, they don't know much about it.

I take offense to that.

*****

On a serious note, this aircraft looks a bit like something from modern stealth concepts with... way too much 80's style polygon shapes thrown in. They need a better way to run those simulations on Maxwell's equations! The main design planform looks like it was borrowed from the X-36, albeit with the addition of canted vert stabs. If they plan to have the actual prototype flying with all that ugly geometry on there, then certainly they will be needed. Further images along in the gallery show an image of McDonnel Douglas' (then re-named by Boeing) Bird of Prey, which makes an interesting comparison to the wing design. The general planform of that wing does have merit in the broad sense, being able to trap a high pressure system beneath itself. For a short span, this is a sensible consideration, though the fact remains that such an aircraft will have a very high wing loading.

Other elements of the design are also questionable. The topside air intakes are certainly of poor design, though certainly that sort of design can be made viable. The main problem facing fighter aircraft using those types of inlets is the fact that high-alpha maneuvers, or sudden postitive pitch movements may create... almost a vacuum of sorts - or, more concisely put, the same problem that affects the upper surface of a wing in stall affects those inlets. Once laminar flow ceases (or nominal levels of turbulent flow) and separation ensues, the engines become starved for air.  This of course happens at the time you need engine power the most!

The worst part is... I can see enough thought into the design to validate that this is indeed a real design. Unfortunately, it looks like it was designed by a team of sophmore or junior undergrads rather than a seasoned design team. There's just this ugly jumble of sharp edges and then conventional airfoils - no blending in what was certainly meant to be an aircraft that generates a lot of lift from the fuselage itself! I wonder if they got a copy of CATIA, crunched some numbers, and then all you got was this shoddily-made result just boolean'd together...

But then, the last fighter project I know of them working on indigenously was this:

http://defensetech.org/2011/09/12/irans-f-5-knockoff-fighter-now-at-squadron-strength/

...In that sense, they've actually come a long way. As for final notes, the small sizes of the inlets and exhaust, no apparent weapons or radar, may suggest at most that this is intended to act as a mockup for a small/mid-scale technology demonstrator. A frontline fighter with a single engine that small just wouldn't be putting out enough thrust to survive in current air combat conditions.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 02:37:02 am by Thaeris »
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Offline Mongoose

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My favorite part is it looks like there's literal duct-tape wrapped around the stick.  Hmm, maybe Mackie's the test pilot? :D

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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yeah i noticed that too.  i also couldn't find the throttle. 
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Offline Legate Damar

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Yep, I'm sure that was the plan. First, build the best stealth fighter ever. Then make it look like it's crap. While the Americans are busy laughing, attack and have a single plane take out all carrier battlegroups, NORAD, and Chuck Norris all in one strike.

Alpha 1 could pull it off, even if the plane was only as good as it looks.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Two Iranian officers talking:
"To develop an advanced fighter, we must first develop a large industrial complex, invest in technological research, strike agreements with industrial providers, transfer the technological know-how from other countries, form a consortium with other investors, and seek for potential buyers in the international market. Then, maybe in a decade or two..."
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Offline Rodo

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Although the Islamic Republic may be no closer to building the perfect stealth fighter, it is getting better at using Photoshop.

Well at least they are getting better.

Right?
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Offline Thaeris

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In their defense (and for the sake of conversation), I want to point out that publicity photos and aeroplane glamor shots are nothing new, anywhere. They are made for real aircraft and hypothetical aircraft alike, and often fake ones as well. Because I don't know what the official press release said, I have nothing to go off except the linked article. If they are simply advertising the aircraft and noting that flying low can reduce the chances of being detected by radar, then, well, wecome to combat doctrine from 50 years prior (and then a few years earlier still). Furthermore, being able to carry a payload is rather essential to being of any use as a frontline combat aircraft, as it or some future version of it is advertised to be...

One must also consider, if they are indeed serious about pursuing this project, what the design criteria of the total project is. Consider the ubiquitous F-16, found about everywhere Western governments exist or where resources exist which Western countries like. The F-16 is an unstable, supersonic fighterplane which is able to fly due to a highly sophisticated electronics suite which was among the first of its kind... in fact, it was the first of its kind. The avionics package on the fighter allows it to attend to just about any modern fighter mission, and it has proven the ability to do so in this facility within the rigors of combat.

Now consider if the F-313 is a mock-up for a tech demonstrator, which may be close to full size or full size. The aircraft has been stated to be stable (and lacking any advanced FBW), looks to have thick airfoils which would be helping in that advertised short-field capability, and not a whole lot of room for avionics. So... This at least proves one advertised lie so far - it's nothing like an F/A-18 Hornet, except for maybe one thing: this could be being developed along the A-4 Skyhawk or the Q-5 Fantan... an attack plane. Granted, not an attack plane of Hornet caliber, but a simple, subsonic attack fighter which needs no radar. With GPS or INS, simple, low-cost avionics provide all the functionality the pilot needs to navigate and drop unguided ordnance. Being a bit more stealthy than your old F-4s, F-5s, and F-14s, and being targeted by countries which have all the latest gadgets of death, you might just want a cheap LO fighter should somebondy decide that you must be invaded next.

In conclusion, before someone actually finds the official press release, I will argue that if the F-313 is intended to become a working design within what has been shown, it will not be a modern "superfighter." From what has already been echoed from the official press-release in reporting articles, it cannot take down modern fighter craft not only due to avionic/stability/structural issues (all are related in this instance), but due to aerodynamic issues as well, which I discussed in my prior post. No, it will be an attack plane maneuvering very little and staying out of the high-alpha flight regime. It probably will employ a small afterburning or even non-afterburning turbojet engine, make use of a small internal weapons bay, and rely on large amounts of off-the-shelf hardware which Iran can either manufacture locally or get relatively easily from outside markets. I assume their command staff recognizes that it would be impossible to win a war of attrition with their potential attackers, so why attempt to match them when that goal cannot be attained? This is a product of a MAD policy of sorts - Iran will lose a conflict should it begin, but they will attempt to get a few jabs in before they go.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline headdie

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In conclusion, before someone actually finds the official press release, I will argue that if the F-313 is intended to become a working design within what has been shown, it will not be a modern "superfighter." From what has already been echoed from the official press-release in reporting articles, it cannot take down modern fighter craft not only due to avionic/stability/structural issues (all are related in this instance), but due to aerodynamic issues as well, which I discussed in my prior post. No, it will be an attack plane maneuvering very little and staying out of the high-alpha flight regime. It probably will employ a small afterburning or even non-afterburning turbojet engine, make use of a small internal weapons bay, and rely on large amounts of off-the-shelf hardware which Iran can either manufacture locally or get relatively easily from outside markets. I assume their command staff recognizes that it would be impossible to win a war of attrition with their potential attackers, so why attempt to match them when that goal cannot be attained? This is a product of a MAD policy of sorts - Iran will lose a conflict should it begin, but they will attempt to get a few jabs in before they go.

This bit certainly has merit on certain Strategic levels.  There are certain strategic doctrines which use the concept that in order to deter a war you dont need to match your opponent in capability and capacity, just build a force which would be capable of inflicting unacceptable losses on the enemy.  Pre WWI German naval doctrine was based on this IIRC to try and prevent the British Empire getting involved in a war with them.  In the current political climate for the West the general populations are very shy about casualties, especially in an offensive wars meaning that if Iran can offer a fight which although they would loose will inflict notable casualties then it could be enough to keep the west out of the country
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Offline MP-Ryan

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