Author Topic: SimCity (5) HLP Region?  (Read 5275 times)

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Offline Sandwich

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SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Anyone have one started, or interested in starting one?
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Please be warned that you should never buy this terrible and intrinsically broken game.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Anyone have one started, or interested in starting one?

No.
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Offline Oddgrim

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Please be warned that you should never buy this terrible and intrinsically broken game.
It's not a bad game per say, game mechanics wise and the multiplayer addon is interesting.  But on the other hand : Extremely badly implemented DRM(always online connection) a lot smaller city plots, launch DLCS (and more to come I bet) so buyer beware!
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
The game mechanics are atrociously mishandled - an all residential city is somewhere close to the optimal build, and even a nominally well-designed city can arbitrarily fail due to agent pathing problems. The programmers and designers didn't understand the challenges of their own design and ultimately were unable to implement it. It just does not work on any level: it will grow less fun and less interesting the more time you spend with it.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Please be warned that you should never buy this terrible and intrinsically broken game.
Indeed.
Please do not give EA any more money by support this broken product.
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Offline BrotherBryon

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Please be warned that you should never buy this terrible and intrinsically broken game.
Indeed.
Please do not give EA any more money by support this broken product.
Too late I already did, pre-ordered it after playing the beta. I thought it was going to be a good game (I played the heck out of the beta and had a blast) and then launch day came around and I couldn't play the game for 4 days. Then when I could I felt kind of disappointed, the regions small size makes it really difficult to grow the city after a certain threshold and problems become nearly impossible to manage with larger populations and no real-estate to work with. I might give it a try again once they work out some more of the bugs.

Got a free game over the launch debacle but didn't particularly care for the choices. I pretty much had all the games I would have been interested in so I ended up getting Dead Space 3, haven't even bothered to try it yet.
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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
And also their decision to simulate individual Sims and work upwards from there has to be one of the most basic mistakes they could possibly make. I expect that kind of naïveté from a 15-year-old hobbyist who's just read A New Kind of Science and expects that ~emergence~ will make everything work out, not from Maxis of all people.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
I have a friend who studies computational complexity at Google and yeah that's pretty much exactly what she said - that they should have realized the game was broken much, much earlier in the design process.

I think the Eurogamer review is pretty fair to it.

 
Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
It's Mass Effect 3 all over again: people take the game's most horrendous failing and hold it up as the single fatal flaw in an otherwise well-made work, when actually it was completely broken from the start.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline The E

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
And also their decision to simulate individual Sims and work upwards from there has to be one of the most basic mistakes they could possibly make. I expect that kind of naïveté from a 15-year-old hobbyist who's just read A New Kind of Science and expects that ~emergence~ will make everything work out, not from Maxis of all people.

From what I've read the basic approach to handle the simulated population using an agent model isn't that bad, it's just that the lack of persistence makes it all somewhat moot. If the individual sims were to remember their jobs and homes, I think the fundamental issues with the pathfinding would disappear at the cost of increasing computational complexity. The completely abstracted model they used here (and why in gods name did they use the same broken system for sewage and electricity???) just isn't fulfilling the goal of making a living city (much less the living town they were apparently aiming for).
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Offline Sandwich

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
And also their decision to simulate individual Sims and work upwards from there has to be one of the most basic mistakes they could possibly make. I expect that kind of naïveté from a 15-year-old hobbyist who's just read A New Kind of Science and expects that ~emergence~ will make everything work out, not from Maxis of all people.

From what I've read the basic approach to handle the simulated population using an agent model isn't that bad, it's just that the lack of persistence makes it all somewhat moot. If the individual sims were to remember their jobs and homes, I think the fundamental issues with the pathfinding would disappear at the cost of increasing computational complexity. The completely abstracted model they used here (and why in gods name did they use the same broken system for sewage and electricity???) just isn't fulfilling the goal of making a living city (much less the living town they were apparently aiming for).

Do you have any links to articles or research about those issues? I'm curious.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Veers

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Re: HLP (5) Region? SimCity
I read this as a HLP religion for Simy City.
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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
The thing is, even if you fleshed the Sims out and gave them persistent jobs and homes and all that, debugging the game would still be a nightmare. As anyone who has played Dwarf Fortress can tell you, detailed low-level simulations like that can lead to all sorts of totally insane things happening, and trying to tune city-wide behaviour to the standard expected of SimCity would be nigh impossible.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline The E

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Oh, certainly, but I would argue that DF with its ultra-intricate simulation of the dwarven condition overshoots the target for SimCity by quite a margin. And yes, more detailed simulation will lead to stranger emergent behaviour, but that's something that should and could be dealt with during development. Hell, it might even be fun!

My opinion is basically that if you're gonna go and do an agent-driven simulation, you might as well do it properly and not stop halfway through.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
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I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline IronBeer

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
The thing is, even if you fleshed the Sims out and gave them persistent jobs and homes and all that, debugging the game would still be a nightmare. As anyone who has played Dwarf Fortress can tell you, detailed low-level simulations like that can lead to all sorts of totally insane things happening, and trying to tune city-wide behaviour to the standard expected of SimCity would be nigh impossible.
Not to mention the computing power involved. A full 200-dwarf fortress can bring a lot of rigs to their knees.
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Offline Apollo

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
The thing is, even if you fleshed the Sims out and gave them persistent jobs and homes and all that, debugging the game would still be a nightmare. As anyone who has played Dwarf Fortress can tell you, detailed low-level simulations like that can lead to all sorts of totally insane things happening, and trying to tune city-wide behaviour to the standard expected of SimCity would be nigh impossible.
Not to mention the computing power involved. A full 200-dwarf fortress can bring a lot of rigs to their knees.

Damn... I wouldn't of thought it was possible, considering how crude Dwarf Fortress's default graphics are.
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Offline The E

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
It's not the graphics that will bottleneck DF. It's a game that is exclusively CPU-bound.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline CommanderDJ

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Out of curiosity, is DF multi-threaded?

EDIT: Apologies for further derailing the thread.
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[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline IronBeer

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Re: SimCity (5) HLP Region?
Out of curiosity, is DF multi-threaded?
No. Dwarf Fortress is single-threaded and essentially held together with the coding equivalent of bubblegum and duct tape.
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