Author Topic: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist  (Read 9586 times)

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Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
All you have to do is place that table file into the /data/tables folder inside your Antagonist mod folder (and if that doesn't exist, create it), and it should automatically override the one in the VP.

Ok, I'll give that a shot. It seems that modifying VP files is harder than in should be. Thanks!
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

InsaneBaron's Fun-to-Read Reviews!
Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Silent Threat: Reborn - Operation Templar - Sync, Transcend, Windmills - The Antagonist - Inferno, Inferno: Alliance

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
In general,  unless you're making a final release of a mod or campaign, there's no reason at all to mess around with editing VP files.  In fact, we generally issue warnings to never mess around with the VP files of released mods, as it makes support an utter nightmare.

 

Offline AndrewofDoom

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
This mod is insanely deprived of the love it deserved. I fanboy over this mod especially because it came out on my birthday, which made it all the more awesome. It needs more, MORE love. It's what inspired me to make ShmupSpace! A term for some reason InsaneBaron loves to keep saying in his review! :p

In fact, I think it'll never get enough love. Even all the love our planet Earth is not enough for it.[/fanboy]
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Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
@Mongoose, Niffiwan: Thanks- I've never modded before, so I'm not all that familiar with VP files. I'll try the bugfix later today.

@AndrewofDoom: It came out on your birthday? Cool! :P
Shmupspace = shoot-em-um-in-space; a genre that started with games like Space Invaders and Asteroids. You made something called Shmupspace?
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

InsaneBaron's Fun-to-Read Reviews!
Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Silent Threat: Reborn - Operation Templar - Sync, Transcend, Windmills - The Antagonist - Inferno, Inferno: Alliance

  

Offline Droid803

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
Shmupspace = shoot-em-um-in-space; a genre that started with games like Space Invaders and Asteroids. You made something called Shmupspace?

You're the first person I've seen use this contraction, tbh.  Everyone else I've seen just calls em SHMUPs, since setting is actually rather irrelevant outside of...graphical aspect.

And yes he did - see this. in which ShmupSpace -> Shoot em up for FreeSpace
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
Shmupspace = shoot-em-um-in-space; a genre that started with games like Space Invaders and Asteroids. You made something called Shmupspace?

You're the first person I've seen use this contraction, tbh.  Everyone else I've seen just calls em SHMUPs, since setting is actually rather irrelevant outside of...graphical aspect.
Yeah, I've never seen anyone else ever refer to the genre as "Shmupspace".
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Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
Shmupspace = shoot-em-um-in-space; a genre that started with games like Space Invaders and Asteroids. You made something called Shmupspace?

You're the first person I've seen use this contraction, tbh.  Everyone else I've seen just calls em SHMUPs, since setting is actually rather irrelevant outside of...graphical aspect.

And yes he did - see this. in which ShmupSpace -> Shoot em up for FreeSpace

Valid point, the "-space" part is somewhat unnecessary to distinguish the genre. Anyway, Shmupspace the mod looks interesting, might try it after I'm done with Ancient-Shivan War.

EDIT: @Mongoose, Niffiwan: The bugfix actually does work, and I edited the review accordingly. The problems lies with Windows Vista Business (which I regret using... at least it was dirt cheap :rolleyes: ) which lacks a proper Notepad application. For whatever reason the table was saved as a "rich text document" or something, which FSO didn't recognize as a valid table. I downloaded Notepad++, re-installed the hotfix, and now the beam of annihilation is back to full power. :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 03:57:34 pm by InsaneBaron »
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

InsaneBaron's Fun-to-Read Reviews!
Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Silent Threat: Reborn - Operation Templar - Sync, Transcend, Windmills - The Antagonist - Inferno, Inferno: Alliance

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
I'm bumping this because The Antagonist remains one of the most staggeringly successful mods the community has ever produced. It's a top-to-bottom package - everything it does, cheesy writing and gameplay mechanics and mission design, works in harmony towards its ultimate goals. It's also really, really good at teaching new mechanics, which is good, because it has some of the wildest gameplay expansion outside of BP2/Tenebra and it's much better at introducing those new mechanics to the player.

Play this **** yo

 

Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
I'm bumping this because The Antagonist remains one of the most staggeringly successful mods the community has ever produced. It's a top-to-bottom package - everything it does, cheesy writing and gameplay mechanics and mission design, works in harmony towards its ultimate goals. It's also really, really good at teaching new mechanics, which is good, because it has some of the wildest gameplay expansion outside of BP2/Tenebra and it's much better at introducing those new mechanics to the player.


Thanks!

Glad you agree- The Antagonist is a top-notch mod that I'd highly encourage any HLPer to play. I was impressed by the way new mechanics were taught: without any dull training missions or obvious tutorials, it enables a player with a good grasp of standard FreeSpace to quickly get the hang of its very unique (and pretty challenging) gameplay and tactics, as well as the abilities of your ship. It's worth checking the techroom as you go in order to figure out what each enemy does (the techroom descriptions are quite helpful in terms of strengths and weaknesses of different enemy ships). I think the only missing information was the ability to slide, which isn't critical anyway (I think it was in the Hints, but who reads those anyway? :P )

All in all, it's solid, creative, fun, hard, and memorable; all qualities that make for happy reviewer.
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

InsaneBaron's Fun-to-Read Reviews!
Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Silent Threat: Reborn - Operation Templar - Sync, Transcend, Windmills - The Antagonist - Inferno, Inferno: Alliance

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
Probably the biggest teaching problem the community has faced lately is Diaspora, which had a technically excellent training mission that, nonetheless, didn't quite work as a way to get new players into the game. I wonder if there are lessons to be drawn from The Antagonist.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
The problem of Diaspora's tutorials is that they were too complete. They taught a lot of stuff that was absolutely not necessary for new players to start playing and enjoy the game.

You shouldn't need more than turn - throttle - burners - glide - hostile/turret/subsystem/auto targeting - match speed - weapons, and maybe comms in Diaspora.
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Offline niffiwan

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
The story of Diaspora (i.e. veteran pilot) didn't lend itself that well to a "new player style" tutorial. Perhaps a tutorial campaign could fit in better (default campaign for new players, veterans can skip/skim it)?  Then you'd have some scope for an Antagonist style tutorial; 
1) introduce new concept (training simulator + virtual instructor)
2) used it in a normal situation (training simulator + "training battle")
3) use it in a stressful situation (live battle / historical battle simulation)

Maybe it could be fluffed as a 1st Cylon War recreation / training for new pilots between the wars?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
I think Matth's right, the way to do it was simply to include the basic controls in the first mission. That's the modern standard for tutorial design. Then as the campaign progresses you introduce new targeting and weapons controls, as Antagonist did.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
Yeah, that fits with the basic pattern I've seen mentioned in a few of Valve's in-game commentaries: introduce a new mechanic to the player in a safe environment, let them gain active experience in a structured setting, and then turn them loose with it.

More on-topic, I'd started playing The Antagonist the last time I picked up FS, but to my eternal shame I didn't get very far into it.  It's on the top of my list one I start back up.

 

Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
Interesting, I haven't played Diaspora before.

The Antagonist justified the teaching without making you look like a n00b by giving you a bizarre new ship. Each mechanic was introduced and explained quickly but clearly by Edward (without being condescending/annoying) while in a real combat scenario, and you were given the opportunity to test it out, then add it to a set of tactics used in conjunction to win. :yes:

And thanks for bump-starting this again, Batman! :) I was a little let-down when this review failed to generate a good discussion at first (the scuffuffle at the start kinda killed it).
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

InsaneBaron's Fun-to-Read Reviews!
Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Silent Threat: Reborn - Operation Templar - Sync, Transcend, Windmills - The Antagonist - Inferno, Inferno: Alliance

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
Diaspora could've achieved a lot of the same stuff with a crash avionics reboot or a run-through of a Viper's systems in the tube before a combat launch - spin up the guns, fire the afterburners, check max and null throttle, make sure the flight controls are responding, and boom, you're good to go. Only controls you need to intro in space are 'target bombs', maybe one more targeting command, and maybe match speed.

 

Offline bigchunk1

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
You understand what I was going for when making the mod.

Quote
"The world of The Antagonist has a sort of unashamedly cartoony feel :lol:- not necessarily in a comedic way :nervous:. It focuses less on worldbuilding than plot- the universe is simply a background for the main adventure. The characters and technology are deliberately over-the-top (in a fun way!), and drama comes before realism."

I came up with the gameplay idea first, then tried to fit the story around it. The first iteration was grenade cannon vs. fighter mobs.

Spoiler:
I personally like the escape ending, if for no other reason than you get to defy Edward. I see Edward as the last obstacle between the player and his freedom. I'm really shocked how many people say they prefer the supernova ending! Supernova is obviously more fun.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this. It really means a lot to read.
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Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: InsaneBaron's Reviews: The Antagonist
You understand what I was going for when making the mod.

Quote
"The world of The Antagonist has a sort of unashamedly cartoony feel :lol:- not necessarily in a comedic way :nervous:. It focuses less on worldbuilding than plot- the universe is simply a background for the main adventure. The characters and technology are deliberately over-the-top (in a fun way!), and drama comes before realism."

I came up with the gameplay idea first, then tried to fit the story around it. The first iteration was grenade cannon vs. fighter mobs.

Spoiler:
I personally like the escape ending, if for no other reason than you get to defy Edward. I see Edward as the last obstacle between the player and his freedom. I'm really shocked how many people say they prefer the supernova ending! Supernova is obviously more fun.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this. It really means a lot to read.

Glad you liked it! I really enjoyed playing The Antagonist, as a sort of more lighthearted change of pace after War in Heaven and a spree of Ransom classics.

Spoiler:
I also liked the "Escape" ending better. The whole reason I was trying to destroy the Oligarchy in the first place was to win my own freedom and set all the other drugged people free. Blowing up those people (and then becoming a slave to Edward) defeats that purpose. The escape ending isn't the end of the fight, but it certainly goes out on a hopeful note- two Oligarchs and most of the fleet gone, and me still on the loose. The supernova blew up any hope for anyone.

To me, there actually seemed to be two different versions of the Supernova ending. If the player gives in to Edward immediately, it's because he's so desperate to destroy the Oligarchy that he's willing to become something even worse. If the player objects, but then gives in the second time, it's even lower: he gives in to Edward out of fear.

However, the escape ending did leave me with an unsatisfied desire for a finishing battle with Amethyst!
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

InsaneBaron's Fun-to-Read Reviews!
Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Silent Threat: Reborn - Operation Templar - Sync, Transcend, Windmills - The Antagonist - Inferno, Inferno: Alliance