[NGTM-1R]

Many steam games in fact include an option to install a dedicated package that will run as a game server for you.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I'm not talking about multiplayer servers, I'm talking about online services, a term which applies to Steam. The multiplayer servers was a comparison to another service which was discontinued. If Steam is discontinued you rely upon the service giving you access to your games (those not already on your computer). If they don't give you access, or further change their terms of service, you're screwed.

[Scotty]

Yes.  In much the same way that if I keep my physical copies of games next to my computer tower, I'd be screwed if the tower went up in flames one day.

Equating a worst-case scenario with a reason to not use or a reason to be reluctant using a service is like not getting a car because a tree might fall on it at a nebulous point in the future.

[Mongoose]

Yes, there's always that chance, however remote.  But Valve has earned enough of my trust over the years for me to put little stock in that possibility, and I have faith that, should something horribly unforeseen happen, Valve would give its customer base ample time and alternatives to alleviate any loss.  And if even that fell through...well, I give it an hour tops until the necessary cracks hit the Intertubes, if indeed they aren't already out there.

[Polpolion]

Scotty and Mongoose hit the nail on the head. Valve has earned enough of my trust that I'd rather have games on Steam waiting to be downloaded than sitting across a few hard drives (note: I do not have a few hard drives to allocate to game backups). The more data I have to backup myself the sooner a hard drive will crash, I'll lose something, or any number of things that could threaten my data will happen. It's perfectly cool to want more control over things you've purchased, but if you think you have a more fault-tolerant system than Valve you are either too rich to care or wrong.

[Akalabeth Angel]

It's not inevitable that a tower will catch fire or that a tree will far on any given car,

but it is inevitable that Steam will one day no longer be available.

There's a difference between preparing for a possibility and a certainty.
The only thing that remains in doubt is how that certainty will be handled.


The main difference between most of you and I is that I don't trust Valve. Valve is a company, not your friend, they're out there to make money. Anything they do is in an effort to make themselves more money.

[AdmiralRalwood]

I remember reading something a long time ago about Valve saying that if they ever got to the point where shutting Steam down seemed likely, they'd release patches removing the DRM. I can't remember where I read it, however, as it was many years ago.

Regardless, even in a worst-case scenario where Valve spontaneously goes bankrupt tomorrow and Steam ceases functioning... crackers have already bypassed Steam's DRM.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I remember reading something a long time ago about Valve saying that if they ever got to the point where shutting Steam down seemed likely, they'd release patches removing the DRM. I can't remember where I read it, however, as it was many years ago.

Are they contractually bound to do that?

Regardless, even in a worst-case scenario where Valve spontaneously goes bankrupt tomorrow and Steam ceases functioning... crackers have already bypassed Steam's DRM.

Do those cracks enable you to download your games?

[AdmiralRalwood]

I remember reading something a long time ago about Valve saying that if they ever got to the point where shutting Steam down seemed likely, they'd release patches removing the DRM. I can't remember where I read it, however, as it was many years ago.

Are they contractually bound to do that?

Even if they were, would it matter if they spontaneously ceased to exist tomorrow?

Regardless, even in a worst-case scenario where Valve spontaneously goes bankrupt tomorrow and Steam ceases functioning... crackers have already bypassed Steam's DRM.

Do those cracks enable you to download your games?

Of course not; and neither does GOG ceasing to exist tomorrow.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I remember reading something a long time ago about Valve saying that if they ever got to the point where shutting Steam down seemed likely, they'd release patches removing the DRM. I can't remember where I read it, however, as it was many years ago.

Are they contractually bound to do that?

Even if they were, would it matter if they spontaneously ceased to exist tomorrow?

So that's a no.
So you're contractually obligated to not sue in them in a class-action suit, but they're not obligated to provide access to things you've paid for?
Instead because some Valve guy gave a promise it must be true right? It must be true in the same way they promised Episode 3. Or in the same way they promised free content for L4D1 and instead did L4D2 until people complained.

Regardless, even in a worst-case scenario where Valve spontaneously goes bankrupt tomorrow and Steam ceases functioning... crackers have already bypassed Steam's DRM.

Do those cracks enable you to download your games?

Of course not; and neither does GOG ceasing to exist tomorrow.

Except you can backup your GOG games to whatever media you choose. So you can have all your games at home while not necessarily being installed. Or wherever you want them.

[Spoon]

And you cannot back up steam games..?

[Scotty]

You seem to be continually either missing or ignoring the fact that you can do that with Steam games too.  My brother, before he left for MCT a little under two months ago, spent a couple hours copying, transferring, and backing up all of his steam games.  It was literally as simple as copying the Steam directories from his computer.

So then the question becomes how is that different from GoG?  The answer is fairly obvious that it isn't.  You are completely able to back up your Steam games to whatever media you choose.  The prudent would likewise backup a copy of the Steam program as well, but it's not strictly speaking necessary.

All of which would - surprise - allow you to put your games on any device you want (including a disc, if you felt the need, though God knows why you would) and play them whenever you want, thanks to Steam's built in offline mode.

Huh.  That sounds awfully similar to what you dislike Steam for not doing.  Imagine that.  If you had a proper understanding of how the application actually worked, instead of blindly ranting about how games that are yours should be yours and that Steam is going to catastrophically cease to exist and ha ha you'll get the last laugh with your archaic physical media, we might be having a decent conversation.

[Akalabeth Angel]

From what I've read you need to connect to Steam at least once after restoring an offline backup.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7418-YUBN-8129

If you weren't required to, people would be zipping up their folders everywhere and just throwing them up on torrent, completely defeating the system.

[Scotty]

So then connect the specific instance of that Steam application once and then shelve it.  You're talking less than minutes of effort here.  Significantly less.  It also reeks of grasping at straws to support the argument that Steam is bad because you can't back up your media, which has been pretty conclusively disproven in this thread.

[Akalabeth Angel]

So then connect the specific instance of that Steam application once and then shelve it.  You're talking less than minutes of effort here.  Significantly less.  It also reeks of grasping at straws to support the argument that Steam is bad because you can't back up your media, which has been pretty conclusively disproven in this thread.

So if you're required to connect to Steam, do you not understand the fundamental difference between Steam and GOG?

How will you connect to Steam if it goes down?

All that you've proven is that you lack an understanding of the fundamental differences between GOG and Steam. See you at the party Richter.

[Scourge of Ages]

Easy there, Scotty. Not quite the need for that level of sarcasm here, yet. You can't deny that backing up a single installer file from GoG is definitely a lot simpler than copying entire steam directories and praying that they work ok. Yes it's possible, but it's definitely not as easy as GoG's method; that is a fair point.

I think the answer to the question, "What if Steam shuts down tomorrow?" is related to the question, "Why do we bother buying games on Steam rather than just pirating them?"

We willingly spend money on games so that we can actively support the people who make games that we enjoy, and the service that makes it convenient to play them. I can't speak for everyone, but I imagine that since we've already paid for our games at least once, the moral issue with acquiring them elsewhere disappears. And that's how we deal with the dissolution of Steam, if it should happen.

Valve is a company, not your friend, they're out there to make money. Anything they do is in an effort to make themselves more money.

As a company trying to make money, it is in Valve's best interest to continue providing the service by which they actually make all their money, and to try to keep as much consumer good-will as possible. If it were bought out tomorrow by EA - for example - it would be in EA's best interest, financially, to continue providing the exact same or better service that Steam does, to prevent riots in the streets of Redwood City.

[NGTM-1R]

So if you're required to connect to Steam

Once.

You are equally required to connect once to GOG.

You have willfully ignored this point several times. You are again.

[Scotty]

I understand the fundamental difference between Steam and GoG.  I'm calling bull**** that said fundamental difference is anything near what you're making it.  If you can't see why it's bull****, you need to go back and read the last few posts again.

I won't deny that it's simpler to backup GoG files.  I will deny from now until Alkalabeth gets it that backing up Steam files is just as possible, which seems to be the major crux of his argument.

[Akalabeth Angel]

So if you're required to connect to Steam

Once.

You are equally required to connect once to GOG.

You have willfully ignored this point several times. You are again.

Where does it say I need to be online while installing my games?

[Scotty]

It must be quite a feat for you to install your games from the internet without once connecting to said internet.  I'd be interested in seeing how you circumvent that particular impossibility.