Author Topic: Descent on Steam!  (Read 17851 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Copy the root Steam directory and the folders for each of the games you want to transfer to the gaming tower.
All you need is the Steamapps folder and the Steam executable itself, as Valve themselves will tell you (scroll down to "Moving Your Steam Installation"). Obviously this will still require you to connect to the internet on the gaming computer, at least once, before switching it into offline mode.

(Interestingly enough, that entry is out of date, because you can now choose to store Steam games in a different folder than Steam is installed to, but most people probably still leave the vast majority of their games in a single library.)

To be clear, I don't think that everyone in this thread is saying that Steam is the best thing ever and is god's gift to the PC master race. But it is the least of a great many evils, and it packs more than enough positives - in most people's eyes - to overcome the small amount of necessary evil. It's fine if you don't like it or want to use it, but expecting all games to go the GOG route is a bit silly in reality.
To be perfectly clear myself, I would love it if every game was DRM-free! I, personally, think that DRM is ultimately good only for encouraging people to use pirated copies of games, even for games they already own, simply because cracked executables don't try to interfere with them. However, even if every Steam game were switched to be DRM-free (meaning you could run them without launching Steam first, any time you wanted, even after copying them to other computers), I would still use Steam for them because I actually use those Community features. There are even sometimes mods for non-Steam games to add Steam-like features to them (although come to think of it, the example I was thinking of got greenlit on Steam, but still; people with that mod will have two overlays :P).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
To be clear, I don't think that everyone in this thread is saying that Steam is the best thing ever and is god's gift to the PC master race. But it is the least of a great many evils, and it packs more than enough positives - in most people's eyes - to overcome the small amount of necessary evil. It's fine if you don't like it or want to use it, but expecting all games to go the GOG route is a bit silly in reality.

Well most Humble Indie bundles are independent of DRM, this one is tied to Steam which I didn't particularly care for. It made me reconsider my purchase but I decided to go through with it anyway.

As for, personally I find Steam offensive for a number of reasons.

First off it's a barrier between me and my games. I would expect this sort of thing on a console and for the most part don't mind it there, but having an open system is what defines PC gaming.

Secondly I think it's anti-consumer because it's anti-competitive. Basically it's DRM which ties your system to a specific store. I can't tell you how many people *****ed about Origin for the simple sake that they "didn't want another client on their system". Like how dare Electronic Arts pull their games from Steam to sell them on Origin, nevermind the fact that Valve games aren't available through any other online distributor. Similarly Valve provides "free" games but those games are likewise tied to Steam and the store, which requires non-users to install Steam and probably in the long run spend their dollars there.

Thirdly it eliminates any sense of ownership or ability to resell my games should I so choose. Or even from lending my games to other individuals. Other DRM does this as well, but I would be likewise against that DRM as well.

Fourthly it's just offensive. As Karajoma said it's like being slapped every time you turn it on. Have big daddy watch over and validate the games that you in some cases, purchased a hardcopy of off store shelves. Hardcopies which can be tossed in the bin as soon as you install them because they aren't worth anything else.


And fifth, is Steam impossible to break? Can people crack Steam games? If so, then like all other preceeding DRM it has failed. And like all other DRM it is still punishing the honest players (me) over the guilty. And would the "guilty" even buy the games if they had the money to do so? Are there lost sales? The only way that Steam has possibly succeeded over other DRM is that it's more convenient than pirating, but to me it's still DRM.


So yeah I would rather hope/strive for a world where the GOG model is the norm. Silly or not.

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Yeah, sure, we all can strive and hope for a world where there's no DRM, there's no poverty, the government works pro bono for the benefit of it's people, people are not judged be appearance or gender, there's no crime and everyone goes to heaven. :) But that's not gonna happen, because the world does not work like that. Business doesn't work like that. DRM always existed, even Wing Commander queried you on feelies and trivia before letting you play. Steam is simply an evolution of this, and a fairly good one compared to the likes of Origin or StarForce. It's also a convenient shopping market and a potent social media device. Even if DRM didn't exist, something like Steam would've popped up, because it's just so darn convenient to have a combined launcher, community and store.

 
Yeah, sure, we all can strive and hope for a world where there's no DRM, there's no poverty, the government works pro bono for the benefit of it's people, people are not judged be appearance or gender, there's no crime and everyone goes to heaven. :) But that's not gonna happen, because the world does not work like that. Business doesn't work like that. DRM always existed, even Wing Commander queried you on feelies and trivia before letting you play. Steam is simply an evolution of this, and a fairly good one compared to the likes of Origin or StarForce. It's also a convenient shopping market and a potent social media device. Even if DRM didn't exist, something like Steam would've popped up, because it's just so darn convenient to have a combined launcher, community and store.

"Good DRM". Yeah, that's a nice oxymoron.
It's amazing how people's beliefs can be subverted in support of a platform which is fundamentally not in their interests.

And people striving for the things you're mentioning is the very reason why the world is what it is today. Women didn't get to vote not so long ago. Black people were slaves. But because people strived for something better, things improved. Saying Steam is great because it's not Starforce isn't saying anything at all.  It's like people saying Planetside is good because it's not Call of Duty.

I'd rather judge a thing based on what it is than what it isn't. And I'd rather want to live in a system where I as a paying consumer am allotted the respect I deserve rather than being held in suspicion and contempt.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • Moderator
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
I find it telling that you consider a viewpoint that doesn't align with yours as "subverted".

You want your games to be your, that's great.  Meanwhile, a good deal of the world has moved on, and calling something "fundamentally not in [our] interest" because you in particular disagree with the way it's handled does no favors for the discussion at hand.  I happen to like Steam and everything that comes with it, but with phrasing and an attitude like that, reasonable debate is nearly impossible - as the circular discussion here indicates.  We get it.  You don't like Steam's implementation of DRM, and you'd rather have a disc in your own hand.  Good for you.  There's no need to piss in anyone else's cornflakes.

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
"Good DRM". Yeah, that's a nice oxymoron.
It's not an oxymoron. A good DRM is one that works, and does not compromise functionality. Steam is one. If there was no such thing as DRM, nobody would make games, or only indie devs would, counting on peoples' goodwill only. Otherwise, what would prevent you from installing the game, then selling off the disk because you don't need it anymore? Morality? I don't think so. If it'd be as trivially easy to copy the game, everyone would be doing it. The real point of DRM is to make pirating hard enough for the average Joe not to bother with it. Generating CD keys is trivial, but hacking a Steam game while preserving all functionality is impossible (at the very least, you lose Steam features). Remember, on order to make a bargain, both sides need to profit from it. You're not entitled to anything from the game creators, and if they create something, they'll want to know you are paying for their hard work, not stealing it. Most games sold on GOG are old enough for this not to be a concern, but for the new titles, you'll want a safeguard of some sorts.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
If there was no such thing as DRM, nobody would make games, or only indie devs would, counting on peoples' goodwill only.

GOG has a few non DRM fairly big name titles. I find it hard to believe that if there was no DRM all the big names would pull out and leave the entire market to those companies willing to forego DRM.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Online Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
I find it telling that you consider a viewpoint that doesn't align with yours as "subverted".

You want your games to be your, that's great.  Meanwhile, a good deal of the world has moved on, and calling something "fundamentally not in [our] interest" because you in particular disagree with the way it's handled does no favors for the discussion at hand.  I happen to like Steam and everything that comes with it, but with phrasing and an attitude like that, reasonable debate is nearly impossible - as the circular discussion here indicates.  We get it.  You don't like Steam's implementation of DRM, and you'd rather have a disc in your own hand.  Good for you.  There's no need to piss in anyone else's cornflakes.
Seriously, even if one does consider any form of DRM as an unabashed negative, there are about five or six major positives to Steam's service that more than balance it out for me.  They may not for you personally, and that's fine, but it's certainly not a universal truth.

By the same token though, I agree that most companies wouldn't drop all PC titles if they had to completely forgo DRM.

 

Offline watsisname

Spent the six bucks and got this for myself and a buddy.  Totally old school and totally worth it; I've been spoiling myself with D2X-XXL and Rebirth's graphical/gameplay improvements for too long. :V
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 
Quote
Steam is simply an evolution of this, and a fairly good one compared to the likes of Origin or StarForce

I know this is an side tangent, but how is Steam a lot better then origin (or hwo can Origin be considered on the same level of starforce?) Origin works really well for me, better then Steam did and does on the installer subject. For one, games that are DRM free or have a certain DRM method will keep that method whilst on Origin, whilst a lot of games on steam get the Steam DRM on top of their already existing systems.

Quote
Seriously, even if one does consider any form of DRM as an unabashed negative, there are about five or six major positives to Steam's service that more than balance it out for me.  They may not for you personally, and that's fine, but it's certainly not a universal truth.

But you can have the positives of steam without the drawbacks, such as Europa Universalis IV and such shows. There is not really a good reason to accept that.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:49:39 am by -Joshua- »

 

Offline Nakura

  • 26
  • Zombie Heinlein
    • Rebecca Chambers Fan Club
I find it telling that you consider a viewpoint that doesn't align with yours as "subverted".

You want your games to be your, that's great.  Meanwhile, a good deal of the world has moved on, and calling something "fundamentally not in [our] interest" because you in particular disagree with the way it's handled does no favors for the discussion at hand.  I happen to like Steam and everything that comes with it, but with phrasing and an attitude like that, reasonable debate is nearly impossible - as the circular discussion here indicates.  We get it.  You don't like Steam's implementation of DRM, and you'd rather have a disc in your own hand.  Good for you.  There's no need to piss in anyone else's cornflakes.

He's going to be in for a shocker when he realizes that all physical media is going to die in the coming years.

lol about Steam being anti-competitive. Lord Gaben, bless his soul, has long promoted free market competition. He's even going to allow Origin games on the Steambox. Valve even provides you with the CD-keys for your games that you can activate on Origin and other services.

Also, way to defend EA, when they're generally considered to be the worst company in the United States. The reason people were pissed off at EA, is because they put their games on Steam and then tried taking them off (Crysis 2). Valve and the customers fought back and made them re-add their games. If EA had the customer's best interest in heart, they would allow people to get their games on both Steam and Origin, then letting people decide for themselves which one they want more.

 
You may want to read this. Also, Nakura, considering your statements, I can't really tell whether you are trolling or whether you are actually being serious. Your statements are rather... sensationalist.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:32:40 pm by -Joshua- »

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
The problem with Crysis 2 were the DLCs, which were, IIRC, only available through Crysis 2-in game store, or something like that. Anyway, it was Valve who took it down, due to TOS violation. With Maximum Edition out, those concerns have been addressed (as everything is bundled with the game now), and it was promptly released on Steam.
If there was no such thing as DRM, nobody would make games, or only indie devs would, counting on peoples' goodwill only.

GOG has a few non DRM fairly big name titles. I find it hard to believe that if there was no DRM all the big names would pull out and leave the entire market to those companies willing to forego DRM.
Yeah, but they are in minority. If you're referring to The Witcher, it's an interesting case of an indie game developed for a very specific fanbase (Polish Witcher fans) making a huge success internationally. While it's not a very narrow fanbase, it's still small and devoted enough (Witcher is big in Poland among fantasy fans) that you could reasonably expect loses from piracy to be minimal, even in a country like that (our post-communist mentality makes piracy, as well as theft in general, distressingly commonplace. I myself believed it to be no big deal until I started spending time here). Other games are, I suppose, driven there by The Witcher's success.

 
An important note to make here is that GoG is owned by/has ties to CD project Red, similarely to how Gamersgate is owned by/has ties to Paradox entertainment.

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Yeah, that probably played a part in why it's explicitly a DRM-free site. Generally, restrictive DRM is unpopular in Poland. Maybe because people sympathize with pirates more. :) The unfortunate mentality, coupled with the fact that for long, you had to pirate to get anything decent (we even bought pirated disks. Can you imagine living in a country like that? For quite a long time, games in stores were few and usually absurdly priced) probably made most Polish gamers allergic to DRM. And CD Project Red is clearly a studio made by old-time gamers and nerds. Probably why The Witcher turned out so great and true to the novels.

 
Oh, I was just going to say "It's a good way to advertise for their store and make sure that the money goes straight to them instead of via the middleman", but your explenation works too :).

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
That's a good explanation of why The Witcher was released on GOG (and a rather obvious one, in fact). I was more concerned with nature of GOG as an explicitly DRM free site, rather than a site that just happens not to carry anything new enough to have DRM. :) The point is, CD Project Red does not act as a big corporation would, and probably weren't even focused on making profits with the first Witcher.

 

Offline BloodEagle

  • 210
  • Bleeding Paradox!
    • Steam
He's going to be in for a shocker when he realizes that all physical media is going to die in the coming years.

Physical media is never going to die, both because non-physical media is a mental construct and because said media is inherently useful.

 
why would either of those things keep physical media alive
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Physical media is never going to die because people like the Society for Creative Anachronism exist.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.