Author Topic: Descent on Steam!  (Read 17853 times)

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As far as GOG goes, most of their games are old (well duh?) and thus have no need to stay up-to-date, support multiplayer services, manage addons, DLC's and mods. But assuming they did, then GOG would be out of luck without something like Steam. It would be unreasonable to expect people to visit their website, download game installer, install the game and then left to their own devices as to how to keep their games up-to-date, set up multiplayer games and manage all other relevant ****.

GOG notifies you if your game has been updated every time you log onto the website. They provide files to update it which are as simple as downloading and running.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 01:47:54 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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I like GOG for older games but, like Fury, I have zero opposition to Steam and I think it is a net positive for PC gaming.  Like he said, the DRM component is now virtually invisible.  Always-on connection would have been obnoxious a decade ago, but now the majority of PC gamers have broadband service (and Steam has an offline mode).

Moreover, what is greatest is that PC gaming is no longer a fiddly pain in the ass.  Used to be, I'd have to visit official sites for patch news, find a working download link, wait for ages for a space on the download server, download the patch, install the patch, boot the game and hope it works, and frequently reinstall the entire game with the cumulative patches because the piecemeal process made a mess of it.

Now?

Launch Steam.  Wait for update.  Play game.

When I was a kid, I had time to deal with the fiddly crap that came along with gaming.  Now, with job, wife, two kids, and some responsibility (how it sucks) I just want to be able to sit down at my PC and play a game for an hour without any sort of effort being put into getting it running.

Downloading all the mods/patches to get the Thief games running on my PC made me vividly recall why I now like Steam so much.  It's actually getting to the point where I am less interested in games that do not have Steam distribution because they often come with alternative platforms - see Starcraft 2, Mass Effect 3, etc.  I would be more than happy if publishers began releasing their games on all the platforms, and let consumers choose their preference; mine would be Steam in a heartbeat.

As for Steam versus GOG - they serve two different purposes (or did; they're merging closer now).  I log into Steam almost daily; GOG I visit maybe once every 3-4 months... maybe.
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Offline Dragon

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GOG notifies you if your game has been updated every time you log onto the website. They provide files to update it which are as simple as downloading and running.
Here's the thing. Steam also provides you with files to update your games. It's as simple as starting up Steam. You don't even have to manually log in. In fact, I'm with MP-Ryan on that one - Steam simplifies things a lot. Considering how much effort I had to put into getting Descent II to run (though admittedly, I wanted their Mediavps-like graphics update), if it was released on Steam in "works out of the box" state (not always a given with old games on Steam, though it should be...), I'd probably end up buying it, assuming my father haven't bought it off GOG already. Many games, especially old ones, are difficult to install and get to work afterwards. Just look at FS2. I don't think retail would work "out of the box" under latest Windows and getting FSO to work is hard, as the ongoing installer discussion in SCP board can attest.

 

Offline Spoon

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Compared to the consoles, the situation would be so bad PC gaming would have probably died off. So you can thank Valve and Steam for being one of the few reasons why PC gaming is still kicking today. Heck, Steam might even be the most important reason.
That's probably not true and really overly exaggerated. The screams of 'the death of PC gaming! PC gaming is dying!', we've all heard those for decades now, it hasn't happened and it wouldn't have happened even without Steam.
Aside from that, you are right though, Steam has been a huge boon to PC gaming in recent years. (Though it sucked pretty hard in its early years) I haven't bought a physical game disk for years now, because going outside seems like so much effort when I can just start up Steam and get the game running nearly instantly!

Moreover, what is greatest is that PC gaming is no longer a fiddly pain in the ass.  Used to be, I'd have to visit official sites for patch news, find a working download link, wait for ages for a space on the download server, download the patch, install the patch, boot the game and hope it works, and frequently reinstall the entire game with the cumulative patches because the piecemeal process made a mess of it.
Man, back in the day I never saw this as an issue... but now looking back at it, it really was kind of a mess.
Sometimes you needed to get 3 different patches and install them in the right order and if you did it wrong you had to reinstall the whole thing and such. If you could get a working download link in the first place!
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GOG notifies you if your game has been updated every time you log onto the website. They provide files to update it which are as simple as downloading and running.
Here's the thing. Steam also provides you with files to update your games. It's as simple as starting up Steam. You don't even have to manually log in. In fact, I'm with MP-Ryan on that one - Steam simplifies things a lot. Considering how much effort I had to put into getting Descent II to run (though admittedly, I wanted their Mediavps-like graphics update), if it was released on Steam in "works out of the box" state (not always a given with old games on Steam, though it should be...), I'd probably end up buying it, assuming my father haven't bought it off GOG already. Many games, especially old ones, are difficult to install and get to work afterwards. Just look at FS2. I don't think retail would work "out of the box" under latest Windows and getting FSO to work is hard, as the ongoing installer discussion in SCP board can attest.

Yeah thanks,

But I would rather log in once to GOG, get my game and play it.
Then "benefit" from logging into Steam EVERY TIME I want to play ANYTHING.


Steam is essentially making sure you're not thieving. It assumes you're not honest. And it's convinced you that it's a good thing.

Consoles are closed systems too but at least I can sell my games or trade them in if I choose (biggest downside being lack of backwards compatibility).

 
I also feel that for multiplayer games Steam really helps in finding others that also are playing the game online. I have never had a problem with Steam myself. I can go between my desktop and my gaming laptop when I travel and all my games are the same and up to date.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Steam is essentially making sure you're not thieving. It assumes you're not honest. And it's convinced you that it's a good thing.

I'm curious why you assume this is the primary purpose of Steam rather than any of the other manifest ones. Indeed, I'm curious why you are so determined that purpose clearly outweighs all the other ones, when frankly it's really pretty silly; any Steam-type game that you would have actually stolen would be disconnected from the related service.

Steam isn't, and cannot be, what you are saying it is. It can't check you're not being a thief. It doesn't have the means. Unless, I dunno, you think Steam is monitoring your hard drive for unauthorized copies of the games in the Steam library. (It isn't.)
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Steam is essentially making sure you're not thieving. It assumes you're not honest. And it's convinced you that it's a good thing.

That's only for a few games that would otherwise have included - or in some cases still include - their own DRM. For a huge number of games on Steam, you can play them in offline mode just as easily as you can in online, with no interruption and no "please wait while we make sure you aren't stealing this" in case your internet cuts out.

 

Offline Dragon

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Yeah. I've heard Origin scanned your HD, presumably for this purpose, but not Steam (and if it ever does, I'll know, and it's COMODO sandbox for it :) ). And you can not log into Steam whenever you want to play anything. Just put it into offline mode and it's done. Compared to other DRM systems, Steam is really good and nonintrusive.

 

Offline T-Man

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Damn was just running over from FB to post about this, Nakura beat me to it! :D

But nah, I only ever had a PS1 demo if this, but that alone was pretty impressive for the time.
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Offline karajorma

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Quite simply I don't like Steam because.

1) I don't like the requirement of an always on connection (Which I don't have).
2) I inherently prefer my games DRM free. I don't care if it is unintrusive, a game with no DRM is less likely to fall over than a game with it.
3) I prefer having a download which allows me to install the game when I like, where I like. If I have the installer, it's as simple as just running it again. I don't even need an internet connection.
4) I prefer GOG in general. I think they have a much better attitude towards sales (Their latest 30 years of gaming sale was fun, and I spent way too much money last time they had a winter sale).

It's a personal choice, and I tend to get very tired of the "You must use Steam!" crowd.
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Offline Scotty

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I find it just incomprehensible how people can still think there's an "always on connection" component to steam anymore.  I frequently (frequently!) simply disable my laptop's wireless and pick a game to play where I won't be interrupted, and it has zero effect on what games I can and can't play beyond excluding the obvious multiplayer-only ones.

 
I'm curious why you assume this is the primary purpose of Steam rather than any of the other manifest ones. Indeed, I'm curious why you are so determined that purpose clearly outweighs all the other ones, when frankly it's really pretty silly; any Steam-type game that you would have actually stolen would be disconnected from the related service.

Because it's not optional.

It's mandatory that Steam is used with some games, and when something I don't want becomes mandatory on my computer then the service is no longer benefiting me, it's benefiting someone else.
And like many people my first introduction to Steam was via Half Life 2, and at the time I purchased that game I was looking for a game, not a client or a storefront to hold my hand.


3) I prefer having a download which allows me to install the game when I like, where I like. If I have the installer, it's as simple as just running it again. I don't even need an internet connection.

That sale was sweet. Picked up some great games.


Yeah. I've heard Origin scanned your HD, presumably for this purpose, but not Steam (and if it ever does, I'll know, and it's COMODO sandbox for it :) ). And you can not log into Steam whenever you want to play anything. Just put it into offline mode and it's done. Compared to other DRM systems, Steam is really good and nonintrusive.

You do realize that you're praising a system which has taken any sense of ownership of your games away from you right?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:31:44 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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You do realize that you're praising a system which has taken any sense of ownership of your games away from you right?
Steam doesn't "take away any sense of ownership of your games away from you". On the contrary, you can go to any computer in the world that has Steam, log in under your account, and install/play any game in your collection.

Do I prefer to own games through a DRM-free service like GOG? Absolutely. Do I have any objection to owning games on Steam? Of course not! This isn't Origin here; I actually find the Steam community features incredibly useful. I want to play multiplayer with someone? I click the drop-down menu next to their name and hit "join game". Steam not only launches the game, it also makes it immediately send a connection request to the server the other person is playing on. If you think features like that aren't the reason people use Steam, you're very mistaken.

Quite simply, if I didn't want to deal with any of Steam's secondary features, I would crack the games to remove all Steam functionality. It has been done plenty of times; clearly, it can be done in the future. I continue to use Steam because I like it, not because I'm forced into it. This has been the case since I originally got Steam, back when the Orange Box came out.
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Offline karajorma

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I find it just incomprehensible how people can still think there's an "always on connection" component to steam anymore.  I frequently (frequently!) simply disable my laptop's wireless and pick a game to play where I won't be interrupted, and it has zero effect on what games I can and can't play beyond excluding the obvious multiplayer-only ones.

If they've gotten rid of that annoyance, that's great. It isn't the main reason I don't use Steam though. I just simply don't much like it.

As I said, I have no issue with FS being available on Steam, but I think we should push GOG at least as much if not more simply because they have no DRM.
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Offline Scotty

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Definitely disagree.  If your criteria for what deserves more support comes down to interpreting the Boolean value for DRM-present, then by all means.  However, if your criteria for what deserves more support comes down to what's more helpful for growth of both userbase and support for the game itself, Steam is the no-brainer.

 

Offline Dragon

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Well, in our case, going with GOG version might be better because FSO requires extensive modifications to FS2 which Steam might not like. In fact, you'll probably lose all Steam features when installing FSO, and people will likely complain. It could probably be added to Steam as a free mod (which would be really awesome and would solve all our installer woes), but somehow, I don't think this'll happen.

Anyway, Steam would be great for bringing new players into the game, but if FSO installation stays as arcane as it is now, it's sure not gonna bring them here, at least not without a lot of complaints about stuff not working, Steam stuff not working, etc. GOG doesn't have nearly as much of those problems, at least.

 

Offline Scotty

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In fact, you'll probably lose all Steam features when installing FSO, and people will likely complain.

I have to ask why on Earth this would happen?  No other Steam game I personally own and mod (and there are a few) has ever had any trouble with mods or add-ons that resulted in loss of Steam features.  Steam doesn't do anything to your game at all - it's an overlay, a program running in the background.

 

Online Mongoose

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The issue might be that running FSO requires the usage of a custom executable and launcher, whereas the actual Steam library entry would be tied to the retail ones.  That might be something one could submit as a free mod, though.

In any case, the argument is rather pointless: why would we need to push one choice over the other?  We just need to tell people, "Here are the places where you can buy the game," and let them make their own choices, while just making sure that we have separate instructions available as required.

 

Offline Scotty

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My New Vegas Mod Manager launcher gives Steam exactly zero problems.

I object less to the content of the suggestion, and much more to the fear mongering Dragon was up to.  Perpetuating flat-out wrong myths about one side or the other under the guise of "discussion" is disingenuous.  At best.