[Tiara]

Originally posted by Mr. Vega
Ok, I still say he didn't know that or he forced it from his mind. Its very hard to be both crazy and evil at the same time.

It usually goes together...

[Mr. Vega]

If your crazy you don't know what your doing is evil, so you're not.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Mr. Vega
If your crazy you don't know what your doing is evil, so you're not.

I was being sarcastic...

[Kazan]

Hilter was like 1/4 jewish, not 1/8th

german class we studied some serious topics

[an0n]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Judaism is a religion and not a race. Therefore he wasn't even slightly jewish.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Kazan
Hilter was like 1/4 jewish, not 1/8th

german class we studied some serious topics

My bad...

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by vyper
It is also a fact that the EU is currently trying to form a super-state, and this is what is sparking such national anger in the UK - we pride ourselves on our independence and freedom and of our past fights to stay that way - and now we see our own politicians cooperating in destroying all that our grandfathers fought for. This is why many people resent Europe right now.

Not all UK feels that way, I would be quite happy to be part of that.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by RandomTiger


Not all UK feels that way, I would be quite happy to be part of that.

*shakes randomTiger's hand*

*invites him to live in the flat coutry called Holland*

[vyper]

Originally posted by RandomTiger


Not all UK feels that way, I would be quite happy to be part of that.

Yeh, thats part of the problem. Some people think living in a European superstate would be better... um, Napoleonic Rule anyone? British culture isn't compatible with the type of authority that is held in mainland Europe - not on the most part anyway. To quote a fav. film of mine: "Freedom!"

Regardless, I guarantee you this - it won't happen without a fight.

[RandomTiger]

You've been listening to Margaret Thatcher to much.

Scotland / UK can become part of Europe on its own terms. Thats very different from an invasion. We either need to be part of Europe or America or we are going to find ourselves out in the cold in a very vunrable situation. I believe that there are concerns with joining something like this but that doesnt mean we should just disregard it. As I see it Britain has the opertunity to take a valuable role as the bridge between Europe and America.

Out of interest, do you support full independance for Scotland?

[Tiara]

Originally posted by vyper

Regardless, I guarantee you this - it won't happen without a fight.

Just because WE want this and you don't there's gonna be a fight... Thats because you feel threatend be the fact that the rest of Europe might overpower yur little island. You are not forced to join. So keep your "freedom". But don't come and critisize us because we are doing what WE want and not what YOU want.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Tiara


Just because WE want this and you don't there's gonna be a fight... Thats because you feel threatend be the fact that the rest of Europe might overpower yur little island. You are not forced to join. So keep your "freedom". But don't come and critisize us because we are doing what WE want and not what YOU want.

I'm saying there's going to be a fight because our own politicians are selling out to yours, and eventually there'll be a kick back. I just don't trust European politicians and I feel our government is  bending over and taking it from them because TB thinks he can become President of Europe. The MAJORITY of people do not want this - and thats what MPs are supposed to represent: the wishes of the voters. Europe represents centralised, top-down, Napoleonic government - nothing is as dangerous to civil liberties and human rights.

Fine, be a bridge betweek the US and EU, but don't surrender sovereignty. (Europe needs us more than we need them, we do more trade with the rest of the world than with Europe, while they do a great deal with us.)

Btw, thinking of us as a "little island" is a pretty dangerous mistake to make - as many people have found out.

And no, I don't support full independence for Scotland, because we have much greater power,security and a lot of history within the United Kingdom. I would like to see better treatment of Scotland however, but thats a debate for another thread.

[Tiara]

The independancy of the EU would have a byproduct that is fairly disconcerning. If the UK and US would be to leave the EU on its own the middle east would feel tempted to ally itsself with Europe. This is the only thing that really concerns me about this fact. But as for the rest I am not opposing any attempt to actually unite Europe.

But my thinkng still brings me back to the same conclusion over and over. America has done exactly the same thing. If the hadn't been united they would've never been so powerfull. They'd be like a second Europe.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by vyper


I'm saying there's going to be a fight because our own politicians are selling out to yours, and eventually there'll be a kick back. I just don't trust European politicians and I feel our government is  bending over and taking it from them because TB thinks he can become President of Europe. The MAJORITY of people do not want this -

I disagree I think a fair bit of the population wants to join and those who dont admit that we will probably have to anyway. The Torys stand for the same thing you do and look how many people vote for them.

(Europe needs us more than we need them

I dont think thats true and will come less true as time goes on unless we join in.

And no, I don't support full independence for Scotland, because we have much greater power,security and a lot of history within the United Kingdom.

I agree with  the security thing but it seems strange that you look at Europe as a threat when its a choice and something we can shape ourselves. Whereas on the other hand you are happy with England being in control of us when they achieved that with years of blood and oppression.

Could it be you are just scared of something new and different?

[vyper]

Yes, but I can't see how you can compare European nations with the very young and small states that  made up America? Too much history, too much individuality. People would get hurt too easily I think.

Edit to reply to RT: Europe is different - its not a matter of being "new and different" its a matter of having different ideology. And you can't say my argument is false just because its ONE of the Tory's. They lost because of many others.


I feel I will be proved correct if the British people are given a referendum. (Notice how I say "if"!)

[Tiara]

I still totally disagree with you on the point of EU being united and independant.

Being independant means no borders means increased trade. Means better income and barely need for outside trade except for exotic items. Thus being able to stand their own feet.

And I also think that the US isn't so stupid that they will stiop trade with us. Although not a vital part of their economy still a large one.

And i think you are just afraid that the UK will lose its #1 spot on the european charts.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Tiara
I still totally disagree with you on the point of EU being united and independant.

Being independant means no borders means increased trade. Means better income and barely need for outside trade except for exotic items. Thus being able to stand their own feet.

And I also think that the US isn't so stupid that they will stiop trade with us. Although not a vital part of their economy still a large one.

And i think you are just afraid that the UK will lose its #1 spot on the european charts.

I'm afriad there won't be a UK.

[Tiara]

What do you mean?

[vyper]

I mean the people of the United Kingdom will be given very little representation and that our interests will not be looked after. We already sit in a difficult position in the current EU, I fear our people would be given second class treatment in a united Europe - as a result of centralized power.

[RandomTiger]

You have a point that less history probably makes it easier but that is no reason not to try. As I see it a big European super state is the only way to keep America in check. No offence Americans out there, we agree a lot of the time but when we dont America has a tendancy to walk all over us on things like trade conflicts or just ignore us when it involves the environment.

Also it seems we are unable to launch military operations without the support of Americans. So when they dont want to be involved (which is their right) then we do nothing as well. Paddy Ashdown was warning us about Bosnia years before we actually went in and sorted it out.