Author Topic: Fallout 4 - a giant turd  (Read 2512 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Well, the skeptics were right.

Worse than Skyrim in every single way.

The smallest Bethseda world yet, bugs everywhere, graphics looks worse than Skyrim, skills and perks are gone, enemy AI is the dumbest one yet (not even the most basic animal behavior. Everything just attacks you), horrible lip sync, blue filters everywhere, no real choices or consequences, mass-effect style wheel with only 4 pointless options (goodbye roleplaying), no skill or level cap, etc, etc..

This is a trainwreck.
Yet people still pre-order like sheep.

there is no hope left for man. :banghead:
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
...It's not out yet...?
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schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

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"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Leaked playing footage by alpha testers.
You have Let's Plays already on You Tube.

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
You are complaining about alpha testers playing a game and it having bugs? Really?

Do you also complain about water being wet?
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
You are complaining about alpha testers playing a game and it having bugs? Really?

Do you also complain about water being wet?

The game comes out next week.
The footage is from the latest build.

Besides, you seem to ignore everything else. Unless you think they can fix all the major design problems in a week?
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
TrashMan you lost all right to complain about all games that aren't finished when you championed Sword of the Stars 2.  This is hypocrisy on a scale that would be funny if it were not deeply sad.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Also, despite you not actually providing any links, a quick Google search showed that perks are definitely still in the game, so everything you said is suspect.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
TrashMan you lost all right to complain about all games that aren't finished when you championed Sword of the Stars 2.  This is hypocrisy on a scale that would be funny if it were not deeply sad.
No, it's definitely funny.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
TrashMan you lost all right to complain about all games that aren't finished when you championed Sword of the Stars 2.  This is hypocrisy on a scale that would be funny if it were not deeply sad.

Are you implying I somehow denied SOTS 2 was in a horrible state upon release?
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Not implying, stating.  Up to the very moment of release (and a day or so past) I've never seen a person so violently defend an obviously unfinished and poorly designed game,  nor seen such blind, nigh on willfully ignorant support of the studio that **** it out and had a proven track record of ****ting out unfinished games.

Contrast with Bethesda, which has a track record of hugely successful albeit similar titles, and you can probably see why I'm skeptical of anything and everything you post on the subject of a game, its quality, and/or its completion.  This is in addition to how I've had my Facebook dash flooded with videos showcasing perks to be featured in the imminent release.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
TrashMan you lost all right to complain about all games that aren't finished when you championed Sword of the Stars 2.  This is hypocrisy on a scale that would be funny if it were not deeply sad.

Are you implying I somehow denied SOTS 2 was in a horrible state upon release?

Even a year later you were still championing SotS 2 as a great game when most people agreed it was still a buggy mess
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Are you implying I somehow denied SOTS 2 was in a horrible state upon release?

You did. I remember it well.
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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Yeah but, is it fun?

Every game from Bethesda I've played has been a blast: Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 + NV. All without mods.

Not sure what people are looking for when they complain about the game. I tried playing through Fallout 2 a few months and gave it up because the combat system is terrible, the progression is largely equipment based and the gameplay & writing lacks immersion.  Tried to get into ME but didn't like the combat system.  Witcher is pretty good.

Only downside I've ever found with Bethesda is that I run out of steam before I finish the game. Probably because I like to explore every nook and sidequest before finishing and it just takes a bit too long. Then I pick it up again months later and get it finished.  That and NV had a few issues like invisible walls and assassination squads (but of course it was done by Obsidian).

If you don't like Bethesda's stuff just play from another developer.



Incidentally, when you complain that the world of Fallou4 is too small. Question I have, is do you fast travel? If you do it doesn't really matter how big the world is because it's just a button click away. Whereas someone like myself never fast travels and slogs through the snow and the bogs of Skyrim running into who knows what at every turn.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 06:08:56 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
TrashMan you lost all right to complain about all games that aren't finished when you championed Sword of the Stars 2.  This is hypocrisy on a scale that would be funny if it were not deeply sad.

Are you implying I somehow denied SOTS 2 was in a horrible state upon release?


Well...


Meh. In a month or two that "piece of s***" as you call it will be a 5-course dinner fit for a king. You're free to pass it up if you want, but only a blind fool can not see how good the game really is.


Man, SoTS 2 is such a **** game its not even funny

Your <insert your fravorite game here> is a piece of trash only morons could love.  :p

I know a few of you here just loooove to try and bait me on every occasion.
Won't work.


Good job with that strawman. General said he didn't like some design decisions somewhere but he never specified which ones. gg no re

Given it's the only radical and contested change, I assumed that is what was reffered to, since nothing else was specified.
My bad.



Quote
Okay, let's look at the facts (very condensed):

SOTS2 releases as a nearly unplayable and incomplete buggy mess.
It takes them over a whole year to actually get it into a playable state.

No, it was actually playable after a few months.
The last few monts were optimizations, minor bug fixes and adding in some cut features.


Quote
That's not just a mistake. That was an absolute SNAFU that should have seen them shut down due to their incompetence.

I disagree.
You judge too harshly and you would fail at your own standards.
The game is patched, the game is better than it would have been (added features). No harm done. Everyone wins.

Except of course the haters...


Quote
The only reason you're not still mad about it is because you're a fanboy who would froth at the mouth if Kerberos send you a sandwich made out of fecal material through the mail.

Your very vocabulary betrays the deep levels of butthurt.
No, I wouldn't forth at the mount. I don't get call for peoples heads so easily as you.

Quote
Quote
Battles between ship in SOTS are closer to World of Tanks than anything else.
There are no dice rolls. Waht you see is what is happening. Shots can bounce. Shots can pirce. Shots can impart kinetic energy onto a target, etc...

World of Tanks has dice rolls, actually. It rolls to determine how much damage your weapon will do (Within 25% of its average), penetration, accuracy, etc.

I said "closer to" not identical.
Sicne I was obviously reffering to the armor and deflection and actualy collision detection on actual surfaces for hits/mises and nor to-hit rolls.



Quote
Quote
SOTS ship design looks far more credible and has even more impact.

Lol no it doesn't. The first game's ships all look cartoony and plasticy.

SHIP design.
As in - ships actually look like you'd expect them to. Modular. Blocky. Spartan. Primitive (given the early staged of space expansion).
Mixing and matching sections and weapons actually has a lot of impact.


You realize this is all really easy to find just by plugging 'sots' into the search bar, right?  So yeah, Scotty's pretty on the mark about this.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 12:24:52 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
TrashMan you lost all right to complain about all games that aren't finished when you championed Sword of the Stars 2.  This is hypocrisy on a scale that would be funny if it were not deeply sad.

Are you implying I somehow denied SOTS 2 was in a horrible state upon release?

Even a year later you were still championing SotS 2 as a great game when most people agreed it was still a buggy mess

A great core concept (conceptually)
They ****ed it up.
The Alpha had more content and was 1000 times more stable then what they released.

But they did patch it up. Too bad it still feels like it's missing something. Some great ideas and concepts, but not properly implemented.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Yeah but, is it fun?

Every game from Bethesda I've played has been a blast: Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 + NV. All without mods.

Really?
Most poeple I know would never touch them without mods.

The problem isn't with the core concepts of Bethseda games - it's that every new entry has less and less content, and less and less depth. It's like Bethseda operates on "mods will fix it, so why should we bother" mentality.

Each new entry in their franchises has a smaller world, less content and more generic content. Less interactivity, more "streamlining", less options. They are using the same Gambroyo engine again (that was taxed and hacked to hell back in Skyrim), they couldn't even be arsed to make a new one. Ask the modders what they think about Gamebroyo.

That's one of the reasons I had some respect for the SOTS devs.
They crashed and burned, but at least they aimed for the stars (before they too gone to s**t).
Bethseda just doesn't give a **** anymore.




Are you implying I somehow denied SOTS 2 was in a horrible state upon release?


You realize this is all really easy to find just by plugging 'sots' into the search bar, right?  So yeah, Scotty's pretty on the mark about this.

Have you actually bothered to check what you quoted?

Where in that wall of text am I denying SOTS2 was a buggy mess on release?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 01:50:55 am by TrashMan »
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Offline headdie

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
I'm done
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Really?
Most poeple I know would never touch them without mods.
Every BethSoft RPG after Oblivion (so that's Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, and Skyrim) has been perfectly playable (and enjoyable) without mods. Skyrim especially; the thing was so massive that I never encountered any bugs until after the patches started dropping, when I'd already beaten the main quest. The Creation Kit didn't even come out until, like, a couple weeks later(?), so I couldn't have (easily) modded it at the time even if I'd wanted to. As it happened, I felt no need to whatseover; took a few months before I felt the need to add any mods, if memory serves.

The problem isn't with the core concepts of Bethseda games - it's that every new entry has less and less content, and less and less depth. It's like Bethseda operates on "mods will fix it, so why should we bother" mentality.

Each new entry in their franchises has a smaller world, less content and more generic content.
You've mentioned smaller worlds twice now, when a quick search says Fallout 4 has a larger world than Skyrim (which had a larger world than Oblivion, which had a larger world than Morrowind). So no, each new entry does not have a smaller world. True, Cyrodiil has a smaller total landmass than Vvardenfell, in-lore, but Morrowind's Vvardenfall is not to scale.

Ask the modders what they think about Gamebroyo.
Given a choice between an upgraded Gamebryo and a "better" engine with even half as much modding capability, I think you might be surprised which of the two the modding community would rather have. There are no other games I know of with anywhere close to the same level of moddability.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
Yeah but, is it fun?

Every game from Bethesda I've played has been a blast: Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 + NV. All without mods.

Really?
Most poeple I know would never touch them without mods.

The problem isn't with the core concepts of Bethseda games - it's that every new entry has less and less content, and less and less depth. It's like Bethseda operates on "mods will fix it, so why should we bother" mentality.

Each new entry in their franchises has a smaller world, less content and more generic content. Less interactivity, more "streamlining", less options. They are using the same Gambroyo engine again (that was taxed and hacked to hell back in Skyrim), they couldn't even be arsed to make a new one. Ask the modders what they think about Gamebroyo.

That's one of the reasons I had some respect for the SOTS devs.
They crashed and burned, but at least they aimed for the stars (before they too gone to s**t).
Bethseda just doesn't give a **** anymore.
I'll take "relatively unambitious but fun" over "ambitious but ****" any day of the week.  I say relatively because as flawed as Bethesda games are, they're still pretty huge, content-wise.  Just because Kerberos wanted to reinvent 4X doesn't mean they're excused for delivering a ****ty game.

And what MageKing17 said is accurate.  Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim are just fine without mods.  Hell, Skyrim didn't even get the Creation Kit until February 2012, 3 months after it got released.  Do you think all the people who bought and praised Skyrim before then were lying?


Quote
Have you actually bothered to check what you quoted?

Where in that wall of text am I denying SOTS2 was a buggy mess on release?
You seem perfectly set on calling Fallout 4 a giant turd without even waiting for it to get released, yet claimed SOTS2 would become "a 5-course dinner fit for a king" after it was released and was a complete piece of ****, and continued to champion it even after it was obvious that it would never be any good. 

So like Scotty said, you *****ing about Fallout 4 while making excuses for SOTS2 is complete hypocrisy and there's absolutely no reason why anything you say should be taken seriously.


You've mentioned smaller worlds twice now, when a quick search says Fallout 4 has a larger world than Skyrim (which had a larger world than Oblivion, which had a larger world than Morrowind). So no, each new entry does not have a smaller world. True, Cyrodiil has a smaller total landmass than Vvardenfell, in-lore, but Morrowind's Vvardenfall is not to scale.
Actually, Oblivion was bigger in square-mileage than Skyrim and New Vegas were.  Which shows that physical size of the gameworld doesn't actually mean very much.  It didn't save Oblivion from mediocrity.


« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 02:40:04 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline Fury

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Re: Fallout 4 - a giant turd
How about we just wait and see how the game really is. Only 3 days and 17 hours to go before reviews start pouring in. Then we'll know.

The butthurt in this thread is so touchable it should be closed. In less than 4 days we can properly discuss the game with facts and opinions from first-hand experience.