Author Topic: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?  (Read 6179 times)

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
The medal case also suggests one pilot, and could have easily been left out.

The ace's achievements aren't too ridiculous compared to some of the superb pilots and soldiers humanity has seen in past wars, especially because flying on Insane requires caution and teamwork.
I don't know anything about RL fighters, but they certainly look a lot less durable than FS ones, which makes it even more believable.
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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
300 A2A kills in a few months is definitely ridiculous, as is 40+kills per sortie. With the universe hopping stuff we can also say that you're hopping into a different universe where instead of person X flying Alpha 1 for the 64th Raptors it was person Y who was more capable and got it done.

especially because flying on Insane requires caution and teamwork.

By that you mean using your wingmen as disposable canon fodder. I can totally buy that. Alpha 1 was a real survivor, he had no moral issues with making his wingmen die by the dozen if it meant he could live and complete the mission objectives.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Emil Lang got 18 fighters in one day. FreeSpace also drops targets and potential aces very close together thanks to the magic of subspace, and there are no real ammo or fuel constraints. The environment does believably favor some crazy ace counts.

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Wonder how insanely good you'd have to be to get through all of FS2 in one go on insane. Even the greatest FS veterans would probably still die/fail an objective once or twice while going through the whole campaign.
Then again, if enough people played it and put enough time in it maybe someone would emerge who'd be able to pull it off, just like A1 is something that had to happen when you have tens of thousands of pilots.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Yeah! Someone did a statistical analysis of World War 1 air combat and predicted that you'd be likely to get approximately one Red Baron even if you treat each duel as a statistical event (not quite a fair coin flip, but you get the idea).

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Wait, what?! If you treat each duel as a 50/50 then the chances of winning 100 duels are 1/2^100. That's on the order of magnitude of 10^-31...
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
This last line of thought is right on point. Just like I point out to people hating on the realism of a movie we're watching. It's crazy. It's extraordinary. That's why the guy is in the movie. If he was just an ordinary policemen getting killed or paid by the mob there'd be no movie.
On the topic, it seems Alpha 1 is getting noticed, he is moving through units/weaponry/ranks at an amazing pace. He's in the field because his fighting prowess makes him invaluable, as proven by many missions.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Wait, what?! If you treat each duel as a 50/50 then the chances of winning 100 duels are 1/2^100. That's on the order of magnitude of 10^-31...

That's why I said it's not a fair coin flip.

 

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Wait, what?! If you treat each duel as a 50/50 then the chances of winning 100 duels are 1/2^100. That's on the order of magnitude of 10^-31...

That's why I said it's not a fair coin flip.

also to a certain point each duel survived by the ace is a learning experience further stacking the odds in the ace's favor as time goes on
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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Wait, what?! If you treat each duel as a 50/50 then the chances of winning 100 duels are 1/2^100. That's on the order of magnitude of 10^-31...

That's why I said it's not a fair coin flip.

aye but you also said we'd get the idea
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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
also to a certain point each duel survived by the ace is a learning experience further stacking the odds in the ace's favor as time goes on
Yeah, in WWII a lot of the Aces flew missions against pure rookies. That really makes em rake up the kills.
Let's take germany's top scoring ace; Erich Hartmann, 345 confirmed soviet planes shot down.
How many of these russians were well trained, well experienced pilots? Possibly none of them.

And during the battle of brittain, the union jacks barely had any time to train their pilots, it sure becomes an easy task to gun down masses of untrained pilots when you've already mastered your own flying skills.

And then you've got to wonder, how many potential super talented ace pilots died young in their carreer? If they just had a slightly more smooth learning curve in their part of the war, or a slightly better plane to fly with. Would the war have gone drastically different if you scratch the luftwaffe's top 5 aces? How many potentially super aces did these aces kill before they could get to their potential?

It's always fun to speculate.

Wonder how insanely good you'd have to be to get through all of FS2 in one go on insane. Even the greatest FS veterans would probably still die/fail an objective once or twice while going through the whole campaign.
Then again, if enough people played it and put enough time in it maybe someone would emerge who'd be able to pull it off, just like A1 is something that had to happen when you have tens of thousands of pilots.
You'd also need to take away all the knowledge and foresight of these FS veterans. I think a lot of FS2 vets can almost dream how every mission goes.
And pretty much every mission in freespace is stacked against you in one way or another. You are pretty much always outnumbered.
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Offline Cobra

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Alpha 1 is the cover story for a prototype AI in a believable human shell which takes 20 years and a star system's financial output to produce each time.  The loss of the first unit in Sol was nearly the deathblow to the project until a second prototype was located and activated for use in the GTI fighter corps.

After the relative success of this second unit it was decided to rebuild and evolve the project prompting a 3rd prototype which came online in time for the end of the NTF rebellion and the second encounter with the Shivans.

With the 3rd prototype recovered it is believed that a 4th is under development in a highly discrete GTVI facility.  It is unknown if a Vasudan analogue has been developed or if the Vasudans even know of the project.

I get Ace Combat 3 feelings from this. :P
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Offline potterman28wxcv

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
Wonder how insanely good you'd have to be to get through all of FS2 in one go on insane. Even the greatest FS veterans would probably still die/fail an objective once or twice while going through the whole campaign.
Then again, if enough people played it and put enough time in it maybe someone would emerge who'd be able to pull it off, just like A1 is something that had to happen when you have tens of thousands of pilots.

Except that in real life you cannot do the campaign more than once.

The real situation would be : you discover Freespace for the first time, you get some quick tutorials on the flights commands, and then you're just thrown off into Insane.
How long will you survive ?

And even this would be far from reality, considering humans are far better than AIs.

Remember that Ace Vasudan on the second mission of FS1 ? Just think of how he would actually shred you in pieces with both his superior fighter and his deeper experience..

The first time I played FS1 on Insane (which was the first time I played it), I think I didn't even last the first mission

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
That's pretty much a staple of video gaming though, isn't it?  You face a series of very difficult missions and play through the story, the one where you're successful is the one that "happened", the rest are disregarded.  I can't remember the last objective based game I played where I didn't die dozens of times, in nearly all of them it's been made explicitly clear that I'm playing the same character in the very next mission.  Freespace also indicates it with the ranking progression and medal case.
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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
It's also unfair to compare with RL because the game is designed so you're the hero from the get go, if you're not the best pilot in the mission in 90%  of them, you'll fail the mission. BP is a little different, missions are often bigger than Alpha 1.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
One thing to consider when figuring kill counts is in Freespace, and combat sims in general, is that OpFor hardly ever bugs out and every engagement basically requires wiping out the entirety of the enemy force.  In terms of narrative Shivans would probably disinclined to withdraw assets from an engagement but real combat rarely demands complete annihilation of the enemy.  Jasta 11 runs into an enemy squadron over the trenches, von Richtofen and crew might only need to shoot down a couple planes before OpFor concedes the battlespace.  They didn't constantly fight until either side was completely eliminated.  Even in an individual engagement if a pilot realizes they are out positioned or disadvantaged they are likely to try to evade and escape.

The fact that most combat sims such as Freespace and Ace Combat do not really factor in moral and self preservation probably goes a long way towards inflated statistics.
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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
And for anyone thinking how wildly unrealistic tactics and gameplay are in FS, I'll just throw this out there. Many real world pilots, before and after breaking the sound barrier era, say that it's all nice and well until you fly into the battle. Then all hell breaks loose and it's every man for himself.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
One thing to consider when figuring kill counts is in Freespace, and combat sims in general, is that OpFor hardly ever bugs out and every engagement basically requires wiping out the entirety of the enemy force.  In terms of narrative Shivans would probably disinclined to withdraw assets from an engagement but real combat rarely demands complete annihilation of the enemy.  Jasta 11 runs into an enemy squadron over the trenches, von Richtofen and crew might only need to shoot down a couple planes before OpFor concedes the battlespace.  They didn't constantly fight until either side was completely eliminated.  Even in an individual engagement if a pilot realizes they are out positioned or disadvantaged they are likely to try to evade and escape.

The fact that most combat sims such as Freespace and Ace Combat do not really factor in moral and self preservation probably goes a long way towards inflated statistics.

It's really hard to disengage in FreeSpace. Really really hard. You can't warp out without dying so you have to fly away really far.

If anything it most resembles those World War II carrier battles where they'd launch strikes at each other and sometimes a whole strike would just never come back.

 
Re: Have you ever wondered, what the GTVA thinks of Alpha 1?
And even flying away really far can be hard if you don't have something else to distract your pursuers. While running away you have to dodge primaries and missiles which slows you down while whatever is chasing can just close the distance in a straight line if they're falling behind.

In almost all situations you're better off trying to win an almost impossible fight than trying to run away.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded