Author Topic: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1  (Read 50230 times)

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
Yes, you're missing something. Look into the data/scripts folder where the things are saved.

 

Offline CT27

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
* Whatever reasons the Vasudans might have for not helping the Terran half of the GTVA, they all should have flown out the window the moment the EA entered Beta Aquilae. They're just going to let a hostile enemy power take the GTVA's joint capital? They should have at least showed up to help boot the EA back into Delta Serpentis, because Beta Aquilae is much more than just a "Terran system", though it may have been one back in the 2330s. Do they even take the idea of the GTVA seriously anymore? Are they preparing a secession?

I'll echo this.  It's a lot different than Blue Planet where the GTVA Terran war effort is more of a moral shade of gray.  The EA started the war in Inferno.

Basically the Vasudans see a hostile external entity attack the GTVA and they sit back and do nothing?  Wouldn't the GTVA Terrans feel betrayed at this point or that the "Alliance" is worthless?

 
Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
AFAIK the Vasudans are mostly concerned about a Shivan invasion, and don't want to waste their forces on something they consider a domestic Terran issue.
Spoiler:
Also, the Zods change their opinion towards the end when this actually happens.

 

Offline CT27

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
From the GTVA Terran perspective though it would feel like a foreign invasion rather than a domestic disturbance so I can see how they might be upset with the Vasudans.

 
Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
In INFR1 (don't know about Nostos), the GTVA was rather distant, mostly driven by the need to defend themselves against the Shivans. So it's not entirely unreasonable that they think about what the advantage/disadvantage for themselves would be. Of course you could argue that letting the Terrans fight out their civil war is short-sighted in several ways, but I'm sure Vasudans are capable of that kind of thinking too.

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
AFAIK the Vasudans are mostly concerned about a Shivan invasion, and don't want to waste their forces on something they consider a domestic Terran issue.
Spoiler:
Also, the Zods change their opinion towards the end when this actually happens.

It's not a "domestic Terran issue" when the EA are literally bombing your capital RIGHT NOW. Again, an alliance is more than pinky-swearing to be friends. If the GTVA is a real thing and not just for show, if there are joint governmental and command structures, then thousands if not millions of Vasudans in the system and especially on Janus are dead. The EA have invaded Terran-Vasudan space, destroyed Vasudan property, and slaughtered Vasudan civilians. The Vasudan Imperium must act to ensure its own survival. If the Emperor won't, someone further down the chain will. Every war hawk politician and ambitious general in Vasudan space must be drooling at this point, as the EA have handed them a nigh unassailable case for war.

Remember that in BP, the GTVA was trying to conquer the UEF, who really had nothing against them and were happy on their own (at least from the perspective of UEF citizens unaware of the whole psychic alien business). The EA at least boast about their intentions to conquer the Terran half of the GTVA, and once they have that, they would have an overwhelming economic and military advantage. The best interests of the Vasudan people and Vasudan state in Inferno are that the Earth Alliance be destroyed, or at least contained.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 04:24:24 pm by Woolie Wool »
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 

Offline mr.WHO

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
I think even in R1 there was stated that after Capella Terran Vasudan relation become a bit colder and both sides laxed the Alliance (to the point it's less formal than during FS2).

Also I have an impression that despite EA craziness they wouldn't bomb cities on Janus, but limit themselves to military targets for reasons:
- they want the planet and it's infrastructure as intact as possible (nuking cites won't help in long term strategy/ocupation)
- all this bable about love for humanity will become trash when you nuke cities full of humans.
- EA probably don't want Vasudans to join the war and have some kind of proper relations with them after the war. Bombing cities with Vasudans would serious untermine EA war efford.

Glassing military base full of soldiers, like in mission 2 would be OK for EA, bombing cities and planets would be a bit too much even for most hardcore EA (unless that planet in Ross 128 that EA blew up was populated?).

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
You can't just "not bomb civilians" with WMDs from orbit. Many of the military targets will be located in or near cities, and destroying targets in a city with beam cannons or similar weapons means you're destroying the city too, and then you get the massive fallout clouds and ecological damage to kill even more. Not to mention, if the EA commit to Beta Aquilae, then they might as well go all-in and try to decapitate the GTVA civilian government, or at least destroy their buildings and records if the people have all escaped. If the EA wanted to keep the Vasudans out of the war, attacking Janus was the worst decision they could have possibly made, not to mention if the EA has Beta Aquilae, they're just one jump from Antares and two from Vasuda, giving the Vasudans even further incentive to counterattack.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 
Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
AFAIK the Vasudans are mostly concerned about a Shivan invasion, and don't want to waste their forces on something they consider a domestic Terran issue.
Spoiler:
Also, the Zods change their opinion towards the end when this actually happens.

It's not a "domestic Terran issue" when the EA are literally bombing your capital RIGHT NOW. Again, an alliance is more than pinky-swearing to be friends. If the GTVA is a real thing and not just for show, if there are joint governmental and command structures, then thousands if not millions of Vasudans in the system and especially on Janus are dead. The EA have invaded Terran-Vasudan space, destroyed Vasudan property, and slaughtered Vasudan civilians. The Vasudan Imperium must act to ensure its own survival. If the Emperor won't, someone further down the chain will. Every war hawk politician and ambitious general in Vasudan space must be drooling at this point, as the EA have handed them a nigh unassailable case for war.

Remember that in BP, the GTVA was trying to conquer the UEF, who really had nothing against them and were happy on their own (at least from the perspective of UEF citizens unaware of the whole psychic alien business). The EA at least boast about their intentions to conquer the Terran half of the GTVA, and once they have that, they would have an overwhelming economic and military advantage. The best interests of the Vasudan people and Vasudan state in Inferno are that the Earth Alliance be destroyed, or at least contained.

That is the same fact I wanted to point out. Also remember The Hammer of Light? In the end, it was the Terran-Vasudan Alliance defeating it.

Also your post actually contains a great point. Delta Serpentis is the home system of the GTVA. Not the Terran part of the GTVA but the whole GTVA. Also if the Terran part of the GTVA gets defeated, that would put the Vasudan Imperium even in a worse position in the case the shivans returned. They would lose a trusted ally. (In Inferno).

The UEF case in BP, now that one is different.

----------------

Futhermore, I know it is a quite an old video, but does anyone know the track / song playing in this older announcement video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_8OHGBEpks

I also recommend using this track - if applicable - in the next Act.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
In a really cynical reading, the Vasudans don't want to get on the bad side of whichever Terran power ends up winning. :nervous:

 

Offline CT27

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
Doesn't that only apply if the EA wins?  I mean, if the Vasudans keep their distance and the GTVA Terrans win...those Terrans would likely harbor resentment.

 
Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
I'd say it's short-sighted. The GTVA Terrans have reason to like the Vasudans. Those from Sol will remember most clearly that they've been at war with them for 14 years.

 

Offline jbjhjm

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
2-This is an issue I encountered on a second playthrough.  On the third mission (attacking an EA light carrier and cargo depot), if I took a fighter, the enemy wing that started with a "D" (Durch I think) never actually appeared in mission (even though the name appeared in the directives list) so I couldn't progress after destroying all other targets in the mission...it said press F8 to target them but that never happened.  However, when I flew a bomber in the mission they did appear and the mission played normally.

This happens to me every time... I can't continue cause I'm stuck in mission 3 :( Tried to use a bomber, tried to give all wingmen bombers... but no Durch wing coming in. Do you know any solution for this?

 

Offline CT27

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
You can't just "not bomb civilians" with WMDs from orbit. Many of the military targets will be located in or near cities, and destroying targets in a city with beam cannons or similar weapons means you're destroying the city too, and then you get the massive fallout clouds and ecological damage to kill even more. Not to mention, if the EA commit to Beta Aquilae, then they might as well go all-in and try to decapitate the GTVA civilian government, or at least destroy their buildings and records if the people have all escaped. If the EA wanted to keep the Vasudans out of the war, attacking Janus was the worst decision they could have possibly made, not to mention if the EA has Beta Aquilae, they're just one jump from Antares and two from Vasuda, giving the Vasudans even further incentive to counterattack.

I have a hard time seeing the Vasudans just sitting things out when two of their ally's system get conquered and one almost conquered (that one also being the capital system of the supposed 'alliance').

 
Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
If you have problems with Durch spawning in order the AI to ignore the Zoais. That carrier needs to be alive for Durch to spawn, as they arrive from its fighterbay.

Alternatively, set the difficulty to insane which will make Durch spawn much closer to mission start(before the AI has a chance to kill the Zoais).


This whole interaction is an unfortunate bit of Lepantoism that wasn't caught in testing.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
Military bases often contain therein civilian administration staff and civil servants.
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Offline mr.WHO

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
Military bases often contain therein civilian administration staff and civil servants.

Well civilians living inside military base count as military personel - otherwise anyone would use them as meat shields and then it's short trip to undiscriminate bombing of everything.

I might be spoiled by David Weber books, where humans keep their bases away from big cities in order to limit the warfare damage. Seems logical to me - on Earth you build base near the cities due to limited land or logistical reasons - both should no longer be valid when you are a few centuries of technological development into the future and have multiple planets worth of land space!

I imagine that the base on Janus that was bombed in mission 2 was kinda like USA Area 51 - base in remote area with very small population near to it.
This also make sense from GTVA perspective - Shivans (probably, like Lucifer on Vasuda) prioritize bombing population centers, so keeping military bases separated gives them several more hours of life expectancy before glassing.

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
Need I remind you that Janus would not only have "bases", but the GTVA's seat of government. They're not putting that out in the middle of some desert. And keep in mind that until the EA kicked down the front door while the Vasudans had their thumbs in their asses, Beta Aquilae had been a "home front" system in every conflict since the destruction of the Lucifer. Military bases there are absolutely going to be located in cities; the people there are not deployed, they're essentially working a day job until they get deployed somewhere, and cutting these people off from society by locating all your bases in the middle of ass**** nowhere is going to lead to awful morale, even worse performance, and lots of desertion.

At the very least I hope the decisions the Vasudans made in Nostos have consequences for them in later chapters. This is the sort of behavior that turns allies into enemies.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
Need I remind you that Janus would not only have "bases", but the GTVA's seat of government. They're not putting that out in the middle of some desert. And keep in mind that until the EA kicked down the front door while the Vasudans had their thumbs in their asses, Beta Aquilae had been a "home front" system in every conflict since the destruction of the Lucifer. Military bases there are absolutely going to be located in cities; the people there are not deployed, they're essentially working a day job until they get deployed somewhere, and cutting these people off from society by locating all your bases in the middle of ass**** nowhere is going to lead to awful morale, even worse performance, and lots of desertion.

At the very least I hope the decisions the Vasudans made in Nostos have consequences for them in later chapters. This is the sort of behavior that turns allies into enemies.

At the least, do you think that the Vasudans not helping out while the Terran GTVA was being overrun would lead to GTVA Terrans thinking "We'll remember this if you ever have a problem with the Hammer Of Light again"?

 

Offline Rampage

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Re: RELEASE: Inferno Nostos: Act 1
We have not explored the why behind EA’s invasion of GTVA space, but once again it’s not for Lebensraum.  Having been severed from the rest of Terran-kind and having had their own share of internecine fighting, the EA are however very pragmatic when it comes to their domestic and foreign policies.  What you faced off in R1 of Nostos is simply the forward fleet.  The bulk of the EA’s forces are still in Sol, including the Nemesis.  They serve a greater purpose in Sol than to simply deter the inevitable GTVA invasion, which will be made clear in R2.

As for the GTVA, Janus is the capital but we did not specify that it is the only capital.  With such a large expanse to govern, it only makes sense that there are other capital worlds in the GTVA.  And as for the Vasudan Imperium, let’s just say they have more than enough reason to stay neutral in a Terran conflict at this time.  But that will change in due time.

In the interim, continue with the ongoing speculations.  Our storywriting is fluid to a certain point, and these discussions are tasty morsels.

R