Poll

What to do with PCS2?

Move PCS2 to newer libraries and try to fix it up
Integrate PCS2s functionality and an equivalent UI into QtFRED
Other (please post your suggestion)

Author Topic: The Future of PCS2 Development  (Read 320 times)

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Offline DahBlount

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The Future of PCS2 Development
In light of some recent discussion on the Discord, PCS2 and its current state needs to be discussed.

The PCS2 source code is, to put it lightly, in a pretty sorry state. Having not been actively developed in over 6 years, the libraries it uses are no longer maintained, so the likelihood of being able to continue development is fairly low.

Several ideas have been tossed around (a few being options in this poll) but with little action as it's not easy to come to an agreement. We would appreciate the input of as many people as possible.
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<DahBlount> So
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Offline chief1983

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
Is there really overlap between PCS2 and QtFRED?  I could see taking what was learned from QtFRED and moving PCS2 into the Qt ecosystem, but combining them all in one app seems a bit of a stretch to me.  Perhaps even bringing the model editor directly into the FSO codebase, if there is enough overlap to warrant that making things easier or simplified.
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Offline Nyctaeus

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
PCS2 will exist no matter what we do, because it's easy to use, lots of modders edit their pofs using it and it's best tool for quick jobs like editing firepoints etc. It is not my workhorse for converting things, as I arrange lots of pof data in Blender, but I still use it frequently for small and quick editing. It's like Paint.NET to Photoshop for me. No need to roll destroyers to hunt a wing of Maras.

Still it makes me surpised, that mods like Aftermath: Reboot were made by using only PCS2 to edit assets o__O.

Ideally I would like to have a Blender addon, to make all pof data in Blender. I always forget some hardcoded object names and other stuff. I would like to have all the PCS2 options conviniently converted to Blender, so I can combine options of moving, rotating etc. with adding pof data.

But even considering the fact that Blender is "industry standard" of the HLP, not every asset creator use it and it will always remain quite complex for majority of community members, remaining effectively outside of their capabilities.

QtFRED seems to be too complex option too. I have no idea how many people use it instead of standard FRED and what options does it provide, but PCS2 and FRED are completely different things made for different purposes.

So to sum things up... I picked "Other" in the poll for Blender addon, but the most plausible option for the community will be fixed PCS2. Or... PCS3?
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Offline chief1983

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
I think a dedicated app that moved into the FSO ecosystem and could borrow things like the F3 renderer and existing model code, and therefore be better kept up with updates to the model format, texture code, etc, would work well.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline DefCynodont119

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
Honest question: Who is even using QTFRED? No one I know has mentioned using it.



I agree, PCS2 is it's own app, what it does has absolutely nothing to do with FREDing.


Quote from: Nyctaeus
the most plausible option for the community will be fixed PCS2. Or... PCS3?

^^^^^^^
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Offline DahBlount

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
Honest question: Who is even using QTFRED? No one I know has mentioned using it.
*snip*
Nobody uses QtFRED because it's not finished yet. FRED2 will be going the way of the Dodo once QtFRED is at feature parity. The UIs are virtually identical, the main change is that FRED will be able to run on multiple platforms (ie. Linux, Mac, etc.).

We had a more indepth discussion on Discord and Chiefs ideas here:
I think a dedicated app that moved into the FSO ecosystem and could borrow things like the F3 renderer and existing model code, and therefore be better kept up with updates to the model format, texture code, etc, would work well.
seem acceptable to many people.
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

<Axem> jad2.23 will just be cat videos

<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
<Axem> maybe
<Axem> it can be whatever you like!
<DahBlount> A Chocolate Sundae?
<Axem> sure

My models: GTF Gilgamesh - GTD Nuadha [Redesigning] - Ningirama [WIP] - GTG Zephyrus

 
Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
How much work would that take in terms of coding time actually?

 

Offline DahBlount

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
Are you referring to Chief's idea or QtFRED?
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

<Axem> jad2.23 will just be cat videos

<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
<Axem> maybe
<Axem> it can be whatever you like!
<DahBlount> A Chocolate Sundae?
<Axem> sure

My models: GTF Gilgamesh - GTD Nuadha [Redesigning] - Ningirama [WIP] - GTG Zephyrus

 
Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
Both actually. PCS2 won't stop to exist and works for many (if not pretty much all) things.

While everyone is free to suggest their opinion here, if one option would take much longer (like, hundreds of hours of free time) it might be something to consider.

 

Offline DahBlount

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
I mean, we'd basically be gutting the existing PCS2 and integrating the model code from the FSO/FRED code into it, making a sub-directory in the repository (much like fred) where it will be compiled at the same time as FSO and FRED. I'd estimate that it'd probably be a few weeks to develop but that's any solution tbh. The only thing the FSO code doesnt have is functions to save to POF, which PCS2 already has. We'd also pull the DAE code from PCS2 and probably drop COB support because TrueSpace has been dead for over a decade.
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

<Axem> jad2.23 will just be cat videos

<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
<Axem> maybe
<Axem> it can be whatever you like!
<DahBlount> A Chocolate Sundae?
<Axem> sure

My models: GTF Gilgamesh - GTD Nuadha [Redesigning] - Ningirama [WIP] - GTG Zephyrus

  

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
I'm 100% behind that plan.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: The Future of PCS2 Development
Sounds good to me. With the added advantage that since it's using the FS2 code, you should get less errors where something works in PCS but doesn't in FS2_Open.
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