Author Topic: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions  (Read 15633 times)

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mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
Alright, so with the dawn of Summer coming by, I've finally got time to actually start trying to make a campaign.

So far, I've cracked open a few missions and reverse-engineered what I could. I've got most of the models and waypoints set up and whatnot, but I've yet to get the mechanics working.

- I've got a convoy of transports different ship types flying in formation that have been assigned to follow some waypoints into a node, but I'm not sure if the way I'm working them will get them to depart in the desired manner. They're in a wing, and each ship has been assigned an individual waypoint to maintain the formation they're in.

So I go to the wing editor and get try to set up their departure conditions.

OP are-waypoints-done-delay
    Lambda
    Waypoint 3 --> Is there any way for me to get something like 'when this wing has completed their waypoints then depart?'
    0 -> Not exactly sure what this means - Delay time(seconds) until they actually depart?

- Is there any way to reset the camera position to the default new mission position? I seem to have gotten it at some obscure angle without being able to put myself back  :banghead:

- And lastly - I was taking a look at Singh's preexisting backgrounds and found one that I like, but I haven't been able to figure out how to input them without doing it all manually. I took a look at a couple more and imported them from a .fs2 file, but that seems to be the only way I can put in nebulas.

Any help would be appreciated.  :D

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
1: Ships in wings automatically fly in formation, IIRC. They will also all keep their formation if you order the wing to follow a waypoint. So what you need is only one waypoint and order the wing to follow that. Use ai-waypoints-once. Then create an event like your are-waytpoints-done-delay for the whole wing. That should get them all to warp out.

Also, the 'Delay' in most SEXPs is like this. In the waypoints example it will check if the waypoint is done, and then how long it's been since. So if you set the delay to 2 seconds, then the SEXP will return true 2 seconds after the waypoints are completed.

2: Not sure, but once you familiarize yourself with FRED camera controls, you should find it easy to get back to the normal position. A & Z zoom in and out. + & - pan up and down. I think it's 1 & 3 that pan left and right and 7 & 8 roll the camera. Then the numpad arrows (8,4,6,2) look around.

3: to get new backgrounds available, you need to put them in data/effects and then create the proper entries in the stars.tbl. Search the Wiki for how to do that.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
Regarding ships in a wing following waypoints, remember that the closer they get to the end, they often bunch up as they all try to aim for it.  I often have the waypoint placed some distance away from where I want them to jump out, and then use a distance from waypoint check in the departure cues as opposed to are-waypoints-done-delay.  It also prevents them from slowing as they reach the end of the waypoints.
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Offline bigchunk1

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
Mjn answered most of these, but just for clarification...

- I've got a convoy of transports different ship types flying in formation that have been assigned to follow some waypoints into a node, but I'm not sure if the way I'm working them will get them to depart in the desired manner. They're in a wing, and each ship has been assigned an individual waypoint to maintain the formation they're in.

Unless your convoy is made up of fighters and bombers, I would advise not assigning them to a wing. The AI for fighters works well with wings, since fighter AI was designed for wings, but transports are clunky and probably will crash into eachother while undergoing wing formation. Especially if you are using different ship types in the same wing.


I suggest a seperate waypoint path and seperate waypoint orders for each transport in your convoy. It might be a little bit more work in FRED but it looks a lot cleaner in the game.

You seem to be uncomfortable with getting around in FRED. This should help you place those waypoint paths in the right locations. Open FRED, go to the bar at the top, select help -> help topics -> then look at the menu to the left and select toolbar. You will see an explaination of all the basic FRED camera and ship placement commands. Not specifically the lock axis buttons. You can use these buttons to ensure you place waypoints so that your convoy ships will be runing parallel to one another. Another useful command is to right click a ship and select 'position and orientation' from the drop down menu.

So I go to the wing editor and get try to set up their departure conditions.

OP are-waypoints-done-delay
    Lambda
    Waypoint 3 --> Is there any way for me to get something like 'when this wing has completed their waypoints then depart?'
    0 -> Not exactly sure what this means - Delay time(seconds) until they actually depart?


You're in the right place if you want the entire wing to depart after a specific waypoint order. However, I suggest disbanding the wing (select all ships and press Ctrl + D) and assigning each ship to its own waypoint path.

You're on the right track to do this, but for individual ships use the ships editor. (In general ensure wing orders never overlap ship orders try to use one or the other) After placing a ship and a waypoint path select the ship. Go into the ships editor and click the 'initial orders' tab and select 'Waypoints Once' as one order, then select the waypoint you want the ship to go to on the right. The waypoint path can be a single waypoint, in which case the ship will steer directly to that point. If the path has more than one waypoint, the ship will fly to the points on that path 1 ... 2... and so on in that order.

Now once you have done that go to the ship's departure event. are-waypoints-done checks if the ship you specified has completed a waypoint order on the path you specified. Delay (seconds) is the time since that ship has completed that order. A delay of 0 is good if you want that ship to depart right as it completes moving through its waypoint path.

You should be able to select entire waypoint paths in the third line of your departure sexp. Are all of your waypoints linked up in a path?

- Is there any way to reset the camera position to the default new mission position? I seem to have gotten it at some obscure angle without being able to put myself back  :banghead:

Alt Z is your crutch (used to be mine): use the number pad (4,8,2,6) to point the camera where you need, select the group of ships and press Alt Z.  You really want to understand camera controlls to save time and  :banghead: More info about it is in help topics.

Edit: Consider also going to 'speed' at the top of the Fred menu and setting a faster rotation and movement speed for your FRED camera. Makes things much smoother.
Edit2: Also, as a suggestion, go to 'view' and check show ship models. Uncheck show ship outlines. This makes FRED run faster in some cases, especially with missions that have lots of ships.

- And lastly - I was taking a look at Singh's preexisting backgrounds and found one that I like, but I haven't been able to figure out how to input them without doing it all manually. I took a look at a couple more and imported them from a .fs2 file, but that seems to be the only way I can put in nebulas.

I don't entirely understand what you mean by this. FRED requires the background artwork to be in a specific location in your freespace2 folder in order for FRED to be able to see it in the backgrounds editor. You might want to make a mod folder, or just add files to your freespace2 folder. Let me know if you want to make a mod folder because that's a whole lot of explaining right there.

Sorry if I overexplained things or anything of that sort, it's quite late and i'm mad.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 04:11:02 am by bigchunk1 »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
- And lastly - I was taking a look at Singh's preexisting backgrounds and found one that I like, but I haven't been able to figure out how to input them without doing it all manually. I took a look at a couple more and imported them from a .fs2 file, but that seems to be the only way I can put in nebulas.

Everybody else thinks you're trying to add new background bitmaps to the game, but IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII understand that you're trying to set up one of Singh's backgrounds from the wiki, which use pre-existing MVP assets.

All you have to do is open up your .fs2 file for the mission in notepad, navigate to the Background section, and replace it with the background section provided on the wiki for the one you're after. Make sure the mission saves as an .fs2, not a .txt.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
You should be able to use the import background options in FRED actually. No need for notepad.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
You should be able to use the import background options in FRED actually. No need for notepad.

Won't work if you don't already have an .fs2 file with the background set up, right?

e: but maybe Singh provides those

 
Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
Thanks for the help, I'm finally getting somewhere now.  :D Waypoints should be functional, and I can actually manipulate the camera now.

Everybody else thinks you're trying to add new background bitmaps to the game, but IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII understand that you're trying to set up one of Singh's backgrounds from the wiki, which use pre-existing MVP assets.

All you have to do is open up your .fs2 file for the mission in notepad, navigate to the Background section, and replace it with the background section provided on the wiki for the one you're after. Make sure the mission saves as an .fs2, not a .txt.

That was spot on, so kudos to you.

---------------------------------------------------

Anybody up for round 2 of questions?

 

Offline bigchunk1

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
Go ahead.
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 
Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
- I'm not sure whether or not I did this tree correctly - The objective is to send a message list either after A or B is within 2600 meters of the waypoint

Convoy Halfway to Node
    OP when
        OP or
            OP <
                OP distance
                    A
                    Waypoint path 1:1
                 2600
                OP distance
                    B
                    Waypoint path 1:1
             OP true
         OP send-message-list
               

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
I have no idea how that tree is supposed to work since some of the entries don't line up correctly, but this is what you need:



(where GTF ulysses 0 and 1 are your two ships and <new message> is your message)

(for more than two ships you might want to use arguments to shorten the SEXP but that's a bit complicated)

 
Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
@Shivan Hunter - Thanks, looks like mine was wrong after all.

Everything *looks* like it should work now, but I have yet to find a way to test it. The campaign editor instructions that came with the original FRED don't seem to work, so I can't really test it... Could someone tell me how to get it going?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
Just run the single mission from the tech room.

 
Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
That's the thing. I can't figure out where to put it :blah: Do I also have to move the mission with the .BAK file?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
No, just the fs2 file. It can go you in /yourmod/data/missions. Make sure you have your mod selected when you launch the game.

 

Offline Legate Damar

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
You can also just put it in the Freespace 2 folder/data/missions if you don't have a mod

 
Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
You can also just put it in the Freespace 2 folder/data/missions if you don't have a mod

I tried that before, and it ended up causing FSO to complain.

Anyways, I'm almost there - General Battuta's instructions worked and I can see the mission in the techroom, but it crashes when I try to load it. The crashdump goes as follows:

M01.fs2(line 20:
Error: Required token = [#Command Briefing] or [#Briefing], found [+Fog Near Mult: 1.000000] .

ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>

To my understanding, something is wrong with the command briefing and/or briefing, but I have no idea what. Everything *looks* like it should work.  :sigh:

EDIT: Nevermind, I was running 3.6.12 when I had built the mission for 3.6.14.

However, upon entering the mission, it found the backgrounds missing. After popping FRED open again, I found that it the background had disappeared altogether. Opening the file in notepad revealed that the background was still there, but it apparently wasn't being picked up. I referenced another mission and copied it over to see if it would do anything, and it didn't have any effect. Tried importing a background from a preexisting mission - Got the suns to appear, but not any of the nebulas.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 01:05:52 am by mobcdmoc3 »

 

Offline bigchunk1

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
The mod you are runing the mission matters in this case. I am guessing the nebulas your background references belong to mediavps_3.6.12. You don't select a mod which references those nebulas and FSO will pretend they don't exist.

Are you selecting mediavps_3.6.12 as your mod?
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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
No, but upon switching the mod to mediavps_3.6.12 and switching the build to 3.6.14RC2, my backgrounds and stuff reappeared, and I was able to test it.

Unfortunately, almost all of the ships decide to do whatever they please when it comes to waypoints. They'll switch positions or even bunch up around one ship and try to follow that to a waypoint.

In an effort to remedy this problem, I had assigned every ship a waypoint, one at their initial starting position, and one at the end, but this failed to make any difference.

Their initial orders direct them to their respective waypoints, yet they insist on doing another ship's waypoints. I checked the wing's initial orders, and they're all at 'none.'

There also appears to be a wing that keeps spawning upon mission start, despite having this in the arrival box. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or if this thing is just messing with me.

[attachment deleted by a ninja]

 

Offline bigchunk1

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Re: mobcdmoc3's FRED Questions
Can you copy your entire .fs2 file in notepad and paste it by using www.pastebin.com, submit it, and link it here? I am curious what you are doing.
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.