Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hellstryker on March 10, 2008, 12:24:50 am
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Meet your meat... http://www.meat.org/
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I've heard about this.
My family is in the agriculture business, and like Christianity, this is mostly just a few bad eggs getting all the attention, setting a bad example for the rest of us.
They get all the 11 o clock news segments because of their shock value.
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Tastes too good.
Lack of care imminent.
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I'm not against eating meat, but there's definitely a right way to raise animals for meat and a wrong way.
This is definitely the wrong way.
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Yep. I agree. Except the wrong way is the way that gets all the public attention...
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It still exists though.
People just need to be careful what they buy. I'm sure its difficult to know how an animal was raised when you buy meat though.
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Anyone ever watch "The Meatrix"?
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I really prefer the meat you get from animals that are raised on proper old-school farms.
You can definitely tell a huge difference between the meat you get from an assembly line farm and a mom-and-pop place. I'm sure you can guess which is better.
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awesome, i feel like ribs :D
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Meat is murder.
Tasty, tasty murder.
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PETA might actually get somewhere if they quit with the sensationalist bull****. Respectable farmers around the world get **** on by videos like this that don't differentiate between responsible producers and those that take shortcuts and cut costs to maximize profit.
And then there's PETA itself: these are the same people who frequently go after research universities, which arguably have more stringent ethical standards for animals than people.
Furthermore, I simply happen to enjoy a good steak from time to time. Humans are not meant to be vegetarians; our bodies require meat products to get all the essential nutrients we need (no vegetarian diet is capable of providing all the nutrition a human requires, though they do get close).
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Sensationlism? Not really. Just wierd games. (http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/superchicksisters/index.asp)
Why? Here. (http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/w-whykfc.asp)
Furthermore, I simply happen to enjoy a good steak from time to time. Humans are not meant to be vegetarians; our bodies require meat products to get all the essential nutrients we need (no vegetarian diet is capable of providing all the nutrition a human requires, though they do get close).
This is a common misconception. Many cultures historically where or are vegetarian out of necessity, as growing livestock is very demanding on water and land resources. The ancient inhabitants of Mexico, for example, lived off beans and maize for lack of the various "meat" animals that Europeans have always taken for granted, such as pigs and chickens. It's not as nutritious, but you can live off meat.
Today with artificial suplements available you can have a well-rounded diet based on vegetables and vitamins. In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".
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Today with artificial suplements available you can have a well-rounded diet based on vegetables and vitamins. In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".
If you're anal enough to go that far, you'll be anal enough to take issue that the petroleum-based products you're consuming were at one time zooplankton or other biological organisms.
They may have been dead for millions of years, but that doesn't mean they don't have feelings.
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"Anal"? Thank you.
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Sensationlism?
PETA, like all good advocacy groups, focuses on a narrow range of the problem and extrapolates it to an entire sector or industry in order to bring attention. Their pieces move out of context. The bit about university research is a good example. They focus on a very narrow idea - say, a single specific practice that takes place within supervision - and then extrapolate it as an abuse issue by callous or negligent staff. The truth is nowhere near their portrayal of it.
This is a common misconception. Many cultures historically where or are vegetarian out of necessity, as growing livestock is very demanding on water and land resources. The ancient inhabitants of Mexico, for example, lived off beans and maize for lack of the various "meat" animals that Europeans have always taken for granted, such as pigs and chickens. It's not as nutritious, but you can live off meat.
Today with artificial suplements available you can have a well-rounded diet based on vegetables and vitamins.
No, that is the misconception.
Many cultures have lived off a low-meat diet, but that is not to say that they were properly nourished. One need only look at the dramatic drop in disease and dramatic increases in longevity that have accompanied the introduction in balanced nutrition over the last century for an example.
Even with artificial supplements, it is not possible to get and maintain a healthy balance of nutrients without a meat component in the diet. Sure, you can easily live on a diet without meat but that doesn't mean its healthy. Several components of our immune systems are derived directly from meat products and cannot be artificially supplemented. Over and above that, our musculature is dependent upon large quantities of pre-processed animal protein.
Humans are omnivores. Truth be told, many Westerners actually eat considerably more meat than they need and should be eating more vegetative matter (particularly fresh vegetables and fruits and not grains). But to cut it out entirely? It's not a feasible option for a healthy lifestyle.
Even the healthiest of vegetarians are lacking in critical dietary material which they attempt to supplement artificially (but again, not all dietary components can be). And most vegetarians aren't that healthy to begin with - many make their dietary choices for political reasons and fail to properly balance their intake, cutting out protein and hormonal components entirely. This is especially common in young adults.
So yeah, it's possible to live without meat but its not necessarily good for you, no matter what you take by way of supplements. The biggest detraction is to the immune system and to overall system growth. This is part of the reason that cultures without a regular supply of meat (which does not have to be red; it can be poultry or fish too) tend to have shorter lifespans and physically diminutive stature.
Vegetarianism is a political rebellion against the physical nature of the human body, which is why it is fundamentally impractical and foolhardy. Reduction in levels of meat consumption to sustainable levels is a good idea; elimination of all meat from one's diet is idiotic.
In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".
No, you couldn't; you lose the mineral elements, pre-processed and complete protein fragments, antibodies, and hormonal elements that are derived from plants and animals in our diet.
We aren't plants - we can't take base elements are assemble them into food. The human digestion system has evolved to use whole pieces of what we eat in our own bodies - we break only a fraction of what we eat down into simple sugars and short amino acid chains. Our bodies regularly absorb whole proteins and hormones.
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"Anal"? Thank you.
Wasn't sniping at you, I was taking a shot at the hardcore vegan tossers who would actually do something like that. No offense intended, towards you at any rate. :)
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PETA might actually get somewhere if they quit with the sensationalist bull****. Respectable farmers around the world get **** on by videos like this that don't differentiate between responsible producers and those that take shortcuts and cut costs to maximize profit.
And then there's PETA itself: these are the same people who frequently go after research universities, which arguably have more stringent ethical standards for animals than people.
Furthermore, I simply happen to enjoy a good steak from time to time. Humans are not meant to be vegetarians; our bodies require meat products to get all the essential nutrients we need (no vegetarian diet is capable of providing all the nutrition a human requires, though they do get close).
Oh I agree entirely. It's just that 80% of our meat comes from places such as this
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PETA, like all good advocacy groups, focuses on a narrow range of the problem and extrapolates it to an entire sector or industry in order to bring attention. Their pieces move out of context. The bit about university research is a good example. They focus on a very narrow idea - say, a single specific practice that takes place within supervision - and then extrapolate it as an abuse issue by callous or negligent staff. The truth is nowhere near their portrayal of it.
There are truths and untruths in what animal rights activists say. Of course an activist website is going to be biased, but it can direct you to more information if you're willing to investigate.
Extremism is not the only option. Many people are unaware of the distinction between animal rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_rights) and animal welfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare).
So yeah, it's possible to live without meat but its not necessarily good for you, no matter what you take by way of supplements. The biggest detraction is to the immune system and to overall system growth. This is part of the reason that cultures without a regular supply of meat (which does not have to be red; it can be poultry or fish too) tend to have shorter lifespans and physically diminutive stature.
Vegetarianism is an imperfect idea. Although many think that it offers health benefits, the science suggests two major problems with this diet: 1, higher death rates (although longer lifespans) that bring average life expectancy below normal and 2, a diminutive stature, which reduces one's ability to resist disease. I agree with you: vegeterianism is not the "optimum" human diet. To many, it's more about sacrifice for political change than living healthier. A serving of fish from time to time would make more sense to those who adopt vegetarianism for health.
In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".
No, you couldn't; you lose the mineral elements, pre-processed and complete protein fragments, antibodies, and hormonal elements that are derived from plants and animals in our diet.
We aren't plants - we can't take base elements are assemble them into food. The human digestion system has evolved to use whole pieces of what we eat in our own bodies - we break only a fraction of what we eat down into simple sugars and short amino acid chains. Our bodies regularly absorb whole proteins and hormones.
I'm being purely theoretical here. All of the carbs, fats, proteins, vitamins, and minerals that the body needs to survive can either be artificially synthesized or found in nature. It just wouldn't be tasty... among other things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illnesses_related_to_poor_nutrition#Deficiencies_.28eating_too_little.29). The body can be "deficient" in several nutrients and still survive.
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I'm all hungry now...
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I'm being purely theoretical here. All of the carbs, fats, proteins, vitamins, and minerals that the body needs to survive can either be artificially synthesized or found in nature. It just wouldn't be tasty... among other things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illnesses_related_to_poor_nutrition#Deficiencies_.28eating_too_little.29). The body can be "deficient" in several nutrients and still survive.
As I pointed out earlier, a great deal of the dietary requirements we have (for optimum health) cannot be synthesized into an ingestible form. While they are found in nature, they aren't found in plants, fungi, or microbes. Some of the hormones and proteins we require are restricted to phylum chordata - which means fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians, or mammals.
An artificially synthesized diet is feasible for short periods of time only. This is actually why organizations such as NASA are taking a good hard look at tissue-level cloning and stem cell lines to produce edible meat products that meet all our dietary requirements.
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a balanced and healthy diet is possible without animal products of any kind , very few meat eaters have a healthy and balanced diet, i havent eaten meat or any animal product for more than 20 years , my work is physically and mentally demanding , at my last medical examination , i was told that i am much healtier than 90% of ppl who are 10years younger than me; im not a food fascist i still drink , smoke occasionaly etc , i dont force my views on anyone but i dont like the misinformation given out by the huge meat, milk conglomerates;;;;;;;; 10grams of sesame grains has more calcium than 100grams of a dairy product ......;;;;
anyway ill sit back and shut up
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a balanced and healthy diet is possible without animal products of any kind , very few meat eaters have a healthy and balanced diet, i havent eaten meat or any animal product for more than 20 years , my work is physically and mentally demanding , at my last medical examination , i was told that i am much healtier than 90% of ppl who are 10years younger than me; im not a food fascist i still drink , smoke occasionaly etc , i dont force my views on anyone but i dont like the misinformation given out by the huge meat, milk conglomerates;;;;;;;; 10grams of sesame grains has more calcium than 100grams of a dairy product ......;;;;
anyway ill sit back and shut up
Yes, veggies are probably healthier than animals and whatnot, but you figure that most people just don't care. And I could see people who for some reason don't like how meats taste, or just think eat the flesh of another animal is revolting.
But personally, meats taste too good for me to give them up, and on top of that, and I don't really care enough about animal rights to even think about becoming a vegetarian.
You know what? When animals start acting like actual people and start paying taxes, then I'll want them to have rights and fair humane treatment. Until then, they're just things that are tasty, regardless of whether they're given the choice to be food or not. But this doesn't mean that I'm not against blatant torture of the animals, the less roughness the better; just don't be making them being comfy more important than people eating them.
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You know what? When animals start acting like actual people and start paying taxes, then I'll want them to have rights and fair humane treatment. Until then, they're just things that are tasty, regardless of whether they're given the choice to be food or not. But this doesn't mean that I'm not against blatant torture of the animals, the less roughness the better; just don't be making them being comfy more important than people eating them.
just a quick reply, your actions do have serious affects on human kind with a world using 2/3 of grain to feed animals to produce meat for 1/6 th of the ppl , so directly you affect the balance of farming in so many areas in the world and the difference between ppl being able to eat and being malnourished and poor......;;;;;
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You know what? When animals start acting like actual people and start paying taxes, then I'll want them to have rights and fair humane treatment. Until then, they're just things that are tasty, regardless of whether they're given the choice to be food or not. But this doesn't mean that I'm not against blatant torture of the animals, the less roughness the better; just don't be making them being comfy more important than people eating them.
just a quick reply, your actions do have serious affects on human kind with a world using 2/3 of grain to feed animals to produce meat for 1/6 th of the ppl , so directly you affect the balance of farming in so many areas in the world and the difference between ppl being able to eat and being malnourished and poor......;;;;;
Although I can see how I would contribute to that, it's no where near direct.
1) I don't buy the food for my family; even if I were vegetarian, my family would still buy meat.
2) Most of the grain they feed the animals isn't fit to feed to humans.
3) Even if they didn't feed the animals that grain, it wouldn't go to people in third world countries. It would go to other domestic products. (Assuming said portion is consumable by humans)
And what's with the random punctuation at the end of all of your posts?
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And what's with the random punctuation at the end of all of your posts?
its random.....
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As I pointed out earlier, a great deal of the dietary requirements we have (for optimum health) cannot be synthesized into an ingestible form.
Yet. That is very certainly a when and not an if.
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And what's with the random punctuation at the end of all of your posts?
its random.....
it's also irritating.
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theres also the fact that untortured meat tastes better. comparing local butcher shop meat with the stuff they sell at wal mart. i can tell you what makes the better bbq. if not brutalizing the protein makes it tasty then stop brutalizing it. talk to the cows every day and pet them and they will never expect the nailgun. :D
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La Fiorentina ;7
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theres also the fact that untortured meat tastes better. comparing local butcher shop meat with the stuff they sell at wal mart. i can tell you what makes the better bbq. if not brutalizing the protein makes it tasty then stop brutalizing it. talk to the cows every day and pet them and they will never expect the nailgun. :D
Are you serious? We must stop this atrocious mistreatment of animals at once! :p
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He is. We buy all our meat, (except for ham slices and ground beef) from our local little butcher market.
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Personally I believe that one of the ways we're to evolve is to stop ending the life of other beings in order to continue ours (or to be more precise, stop being dependant on other beings to survive).
I don't know about you people, but I hate preparing food and then eating it. It's BORING and takes TIME. I'd much rather have a refridgerator filled with injection hypo's where I need to inject myself twice or three times a day, and be set, never having to eat again. I'll chew on some synthetic crap to keep my intestines active, but as far as nourishment go, I'd rather have a five second injection with all the vitamins minerals proteins whatever it is that I need, then eat.
Pills also work for me.
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Personally I believe that one of the ways we're to evolve is to stop ending the life of other beings in order to continue ours (or to be more precise, stop being dependant on other beings to survive).
I don't know about you people, but I hate preparing food and then eating it. It's BORING and takes TIME. I'd much rather have a refridgerator filled with injection hypo's where I need to inject myself twice or three times a day, and be set, never having to eat again. I'll chew on some synthetic crap to keep my intestines active, but as far as nourishment go, I'd rather have a five second injection with all the vitamins minerals proteins whatever it is that I need, then eat.
Pills also work for me.
:wtf:
I don't know about you people, but I hate living. It's BORING and takes TIME. I'd much rather only have a husk filled with cyanide injections.
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I don't know about you people, but I hate preparing food and then eating it. It's BORING and takes TIME.
QFT. Except cookies. And cupcakes.
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Personally I believe that one of the ways we're to evolve is to stop ending the life of other beings in order to continue ours (or to be more precise, stop being dependant on other beings to survive).
I don't know about you people, but I hate preparing food and then eating it. It's BORING and takes TIME. I'd much rather have a refridgerator filled with injection hypo's where I need to inject myself twice or three times a day, and be set, never having to eat again. I'll chew on some synthetic crap to keep my intestines active, but as far as nourishment go, I'd rather have a five second injection with all the vitamins minerals proteins whatever it is that I need, then eat.
Pills also work for me.
:wtf:
I don't know about you people, but I hate living. It's BORING and takes TIME. I'd much rather only have a husk filled with cyanide injections.
Yeah, we'd also like you to have those as well.
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Personally I believe that one of the ways we're to evolve is to stop ending the life of other beings in order to continue ours (or to be more precise, stop being dependant on other beings to survive).
Really? I personally believe that humanity should evolve an organ that can create nutrients out of our own waste, thus completely obviating the need to eat or excrete wastes, and in effect preventing us from physically growing and thus dooming humanity forever. I'm 100% positive that my progeny would be perfectly fine living as a blastocyst until their parents die of old age.
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Sounds great. As long as I don't have to prepare or eat food.
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Personally I believe that one of the ways we're to evolve is to stop ending the life of other beings in order to continue ours (or to be more precise, stop being dependant on other beings to survive).
Really? I personally believe that humanity should evolve an organ that can create nutrients out of our own waste, thus completely obviating the need to eat or excrete wastes, and in effect preventing us from physically growing and thus dooming humanity forever. I'm 100% positive that my progeny would be perfectly fine living as a blastocyst until their parents die of old age.
You'd still need to eat, unless you plan to remain a single cell for the rest of your life. And even if you only plan to use this ficticious organ in adult stage, you'd still need to eat to get energy, second law of thermodynamics and all that.
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Personally I believe that one of the ways we're to evolve is to stop ending the life of other beings in order to continue ours (or to be more precise, stop being dependant on other beings to survive).
Really? I personally believe that humanity should evolve an organ that can create nutrients out of our own waste, thus completely obviating the need to eat or excrete wastes, and in effect preventing us from physically growing and thus dooming humanity forever. I'm 100% positive that my progeny would be perfectly fine living as a blastocyst until their parents die of old age.
1) I was being sarcastic
2) See red portion of post.
3) During cleavage, the cell size actually shrinks because you practically take the egg and chop it in half, and keep doing that with the daughter cells for the remainder of cleavage. I'm actually not certain if you would actually reach a blastocyst, though (as opposed to just a zygote).
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There is also the problem of growing that organ in the first place. :p
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As I pointed out earlier, a great deal of the dietary requirements we have (for optimum health) cannot be synthesized into an ingestible form.
can some one tell me what the great deal of dietry requirements that you can only get from meat?
look no random punctuation
it wont last
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Well, to point you in the right direction, this is what Wikipedia has to say.
The American Dietetic Association has said that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."[9] However, poorly planned vegan diets can be deficient in nutrients such as vitamin B12,[68] vitamin D,[69] calcium,[70][69] iodine[71] and omega-3 fatty acids.[72] These deficiencies have potentially serious consequences, including anemia,[73] rickets[74] and cretinism[75] in children, and osteomalacia[74] and hypothyroidism[75] in adults.
Yeah, it's Wikipedia, but it's externally cited, and the ADA is a pretty centrist organization even if they have a stated pro-vegetarian view.
Hold on to that until our resident bioligists arrive.
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Well, to point you in the right direction, this is what Wikipedia has to say.
The American Dietetic Association has said that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."[9] However, poorly planned vegan diets can be deficient in nutrients such as vitamin B12,[68] vitamin D,[69] calcium,[70][69] iodine[71] and omega-3 fatty acids.[72] These deficiencies have potentially serious consequences, including anemia,[73] rickets[74] and cretinism[75] in children, and osteomalacia[74] and hypothyroidism[75] in adults.
Yeah, it's Wikipedia, but it's externally cited, and the ADA is a pretty centrist organization even if they have a stated pro-vegetarian view.
Hold on to that until our resident bioligists arrive.
ok all of the omega 3/6 etc can be found in oils , hemp oil ,flaxoil are two of the ,all the calcium you need can be taken from sesame seeds etc , the vitamin B can be found within many vegetables etc including soya shoots , iodine is easy eat kelp( seaweed ) high in iodine and tastes like dirt but good for you all the same ,
the ADA like so many organisations have there heads well and truly placed up the arses of there corporate funders , ive probably made a few mistakes in my text, but being a vegetarian perhaps the ADA can forgive me for being a cretin............
ooops they've started again ,
and who gave me that title ?
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Why more people aren't vegan:
tastes like dirt
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I agree, they are being treated like ****, but GAH, another smuggy vegetarian ad movie.
After all, this is just a move of the vegetable industry.
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But...but..I like my meats..I cant imagine a pizza without salami! :blah:
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And that of course.
But I want to see a normal person who really DOES care about all this and stops eating meat.
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And that of course.
But I want to see a normal person who really DOES care about all this and stops eating meat.
define normal please...
Ive never ever seen or talked to someone who is normal.
i cared enough to stop eating meat, and that was over 20 years ago,
but then again i hope i don't fall into the "normal" person bracket...
i have no problem with ppl eating meat what so ever , i do have a problem with ppl telling me that i lack in essential vitamins and minerals, but maybe they mean vitamin madcow and mineral bsg
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I do view vegetarians to be quite anormal, yes.
I mean, come one, it's in our very nature. Else we would have plan eater dents.
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lets make a gatling gun than shoots big chunks of brutalized meat. load a half a ton of meat into the shells. which are loaded into the feeder to the barrels assembly. which would be 10, no! eleven! barrels, which would be rotated at about 30rpm max which comes out to 330 rounds a minute. not alot, no, as gatling guns would go. but remember its firing huge chunks of compressed meat, in excess of half a ton, 330 times a minute! when its left smoldering a crater it willl have been touching the ground for more than 10 seconds, which will never be eaten, cause that would be gross.
the animals which are to provide projectiles for the gatling gun will be forced to walk double file on conveyor belts will swiftly be intersected by a series of blades, organized as such to carve a shell out of each section of animal material (a 6ft x 3ft box across the belt, approx 2 animals thick). after that the shells are ejected into the casing system, and spare parts continue down the conveyor to be pulpified and sausaged and later cut into shell shaped objects. they seem to aim a little better but spread the damage out too much or simply shotgun in mid air.
the casing system loads powder into shell casings and then places the meat shells within them, and finally deposit it on the feeder belt system where it gets loaded into the ammo store and eventually off to the gun to be fired. weather you get the shotgun sausage shells or the meat splatter shells which just seem to go everywhere. you will soon know the pleasure of shooting your meat off.
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A full, healthy, and tasty vegan diet is extremely expensive and time consuming.
Prove me wrong.
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Someone want to fry me up a nice piece of sirloin?
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Someone want to fry me up a nice piece of sirloin?
Yeah, but it's tasty, and, depending on how you cook it, it can be cooked up pretty quick.
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I haven't formed opinion about vegetarians (except the inconvenience they arrive at your house and haven't told about their decision). Human is omnivorous, but if some people want to eat veggies then it's their call. The only comment I have is that the healthy vegetarian diet is probably possible, but getting those incredients above the polar circle might turn out to be difficult.
Mika
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A full, healthy, and tasty vegan diet is extremely expensive and time consuming.
Prove me wrong.
mmmm read next quote
[/quSomeone want to fry me up a nice piece of sirloin?
Yeah, but it's tasty, and, depending on how you cook it, it can be cooked up pretty quick.
ote]
yes pretty quick after its spent 7 months in the womb and then another year being fead growth hormones and wandering around a field.... 4 months in cold storage , 2 weeks at the supermarket supply depo then however long it takes you to cook it , damn its almost instant
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A full, healthy, and tasty vegan diet is extremely expensive and time consuming.
Prove me wrong.
mmmm read next quote
[/quSomeone want to fry me up a nice piece of sirloin?
Yeah, but it's tasty, and, depending on how you cook it, it can be cooked up pretty quick.
ote]
yes pretty quick after its spent 7 months in the womb and then another year being fead growth hormones and wandering around a field.... 4 months in cold storage , 2 weeks at the supermarket supply depo then however long it takes you to cook it , damn its almost instant
And tell me: Who here has had to wait 2 years between ordering a sirloin steak and eating it? No one. Your point is invalid, andicirk.
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A full, healthy, and tasty vegan diet is extremely expensive and time consuming.
Prove me wrong.
mmmm read next quote
[/quSomeone want to fry me up a nice piece of sirloin?
Yeah, but it's tasty, and, depending on how you cook it, it can be cooked up pretty quick.
ote]
yes pretty quick after its spent 7 months in the womb and then another year being fead growth hormones and wandering around a field.... 4 months in cold storage , 2 weeks at the supermarket supply depo then however long it takes you to cook it , damn its almost instant
It's called aging. :p
In all seriousness, I do see where you're going with this, but I was talking refridgerator to plate.
Out of curiosity, do you think milk is terrible as well?
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It's called aging.
In all seriousness, I do see where you're going with this, but I was talking refridgerator to plate.
Out of curiosity, do you think milk is terrible as well?
the thing is i dont think anything is terrible ... each to his/her own ...so to speak
just crappy misconcieved arguements to justify this or that are annoying with the exception of trolling ( thats an art form)
basically eat what you want, believe what you want .... its your karma
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It's called aging.
In all seriousness, I do see where you're going with this, but I was talking refridgerator to plate.
Out of curiosity, do you think milk is terrible as well?
the thing is i dont think anything is terrible ... each to his/her own ...so to speak
just crappy misconcieved arguements to justify this or that are annoying with the exception of trolling ( thats an art form)
basically eat what you want, believe what you want .... its your karma
What he meant is "If you're so opposed to the consumption of meats, then what is your opinion of the consumption of Milk, or other dairy products?"
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What he meant is "If you're so opposed to the consumption of meats, then what is your opinion of the consumption of Milk, or other dairy products?"
the answer is in the first post
a balanced and healthy diet is possible without animal products of any kind , very few meat eaters have a healthy and balanced diet, i havent eaten meat or any animal product for more than 20 years , my work is physically and mentally demanding , at my last medical examination , i was told that i am much healtier than 90% of ppl who are 10years younger than me; im not a food fascist i still drink , smoke occasionaly etc , i dont force my views on anyone but i dont like the misinformation given out by the huge meat, milk conglomerates;;;;;;;; 10grams of sesame grains has more calcium than 100grams of a dairy product ......;;;;
anyway ill sit back and shut up
at no point have i said that im opposed to the consomation of meat , i think that ive hinted at the point that i am opposed to the current farming and industrial food chain based system and the misinformation surrounding meat and its nutritional benefits and those who dont eat meat and the obvious (payed expert opinions) nutritional short commings of a dietry regime without meat in it......
and i n previous post i think i was clear the thing is i dont think anything is terrible ... each to his/her own ...so to speak
just crappy misconcieved arguements to justify this or that are annoying with the exception of trolling ( thats an art form)
basically eat what you want, believe what you want .... its your karma
that my arguement was against the misinformation and towards a personal responsability based on the freedom of choice...
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If you're so worried about animal rights, go take it up with the butcher. I will keep eating meat no matter what nasty pictures you show me (yes, even those pics)
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I will keep eating meat no matter what nasty pictures you show me (yes, even those pics)
:eek:
That would sound horrible if taken out of context.
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A full, healthy, and tasty vegan diet is extremely expensive and time consuming.
Prove me wrong.
No!
You see, it goes like this:
you make this claim
you support it
Now I can just say "nyuh uh it isn't it's quite cheap and simple" and lo and behold, your argument still sucks unless you prove it aahahahahaa
(I'm not a vegetarian)
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A full, healthy, and tasty vegan diet is extremely expensive and time consuming.
Prove me wrong.
No!
You see, it goes like this:
you make this claim
you support it
Now I can just say "nyuh uh it isn't it's quite cheap and simple" and lo and behold, your argument still sucks unless you prove it aahahahahaa
(I'm not a vegetarian)
No!
You see, it goes like this:
i make a trolling attempt
i don't waste my time supporting it
Now you can just say "nyuh uh, back your claims up with valid research" and low and behold, my argument is still nothing but a troll attempt with no need for proof aahahahahaa
(I'm not a mod)
Oh, but wait!
http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/Vegetarian_Diet/
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I will keep eating meat no matter what nasty pictures you show me (yes, even those pics)
:eek:
That would sound horrible if taken out of context.
You obviously have no idea the horrors I had in mind. That doesn't just sound wrong.
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Now you can just say "nyuh uh, back your claims up with valid research" and low and behold, my argument is still nothing but a troll attempt with no need for proof aahahahahaa
(I'm not a mod)
Oh, but wait!
http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/Vegetarian_Diet/
well if you read the article, which is more a dietry advice site than a serious scientific research you see it backs up a large number of points , as for the price thing , I'm sure if you buy your food in a sensible way and don't go for the mass produced vegetarian alternatives the cost is cheaper, as for learning what you need to eat with what for the right carb/protein ratio it will take you about 10 minutes to understand, eating meat is a choice granted but a choice that within our industrialised farming methods has a huge cost both concerning health and taxation issues ( as mentioned in the article , meat production is heavily subsidised), as for your trolling , it was a good try but I'm sure you can do better
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Now you can just say "nyuh uh, back your claims up with valid research" and low and behold, my argument is still nothing but a troll attempt with no need for proof aahahahahaa
(I'm not a mod)
Oh, but wait!
http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/Vegetarian_Diet/
well if you read the article, which is more a dietry advice site than a serious scientific research you see it backs up a large number of points , as for the price thing , I'm sure if you buy your food in a sensible way and don't go for the mass produced vegetarian alternatives the cost is cheaper, as for learning what you need to eat with what for the right carb/protein ratio it will take you about 10 minutes to understand, eating meat is a choice granted but a choice that within our industrialised farming methods has a huge cost both concerning health and taxation issues ( as mentioned in the article , meat production is heavily subsidised), as for your trolling , it was a good try but I'm sure you can do better
Got a response out of you, didn't I?
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Now you can just say "nyuh uh, back your claims up with valid research" and low and behold, my argument is still nothing but a troll attempt with no need for proof aahahahahaa
(I'm not a mod)
Oh, but wait!
http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/Vegetarian_Diet/
well if you read the article, which is more a dietry advice site than a serious scientific research you see it backs up a large number of points , as for the price thing , I'm sure if you buy your food in a sensible way and don't go for the mass produced vegetarian alternatives the cost is cheaper, as for learning what you need to eat with what for the right carb/protein ratio it will take you about 10 minutes to understand, eating meat is a choice granted but a choice that within our industrialised farming methods has a huge cost both concerning health and taxation issues ( as mentioned in the article , meat production is heavily subsidised), as for your trolling , it was a good try but I'm sure you can do better
Got a response out of you, didn't I?
yip ........
:D
:p
but only because i was trying to help you "beef" up your trolling skills...
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Oh-ho!
Nice. :p
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imagine chili with 15 different kinds of meat
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As I pointed out earlier, a great deal of the dietary requirements we have (for optimum health) cannot be synthesized into an ingestible form.
can some one tell me what the great deal of dietry requirements that you can only get from meat?
1. Fully stable protein chains derived from animal muscle which are reincoporated into our muscle systems.
2. Antibody components which are partially reintegrated into our immune systems and which are used as immune targets to broaden the receptor types for memory T and B cells.
3. Cytokines, hormones, and other signalling compounds.
Our bodies are very good at incorporating molecules from our diet with minimal modification into functional use, but they have to be similar in the first place. Plant and fungal material is nowhere near similar enough. On top of that, we can't digest things like cellulose, whereas other animals can. Eliminate animals from the food chain and there isn't enough organic material on the planet to feed the population. Humans, like bears, sit at the high end of the food chain and are incapable of functioning at the lower levels which can eat mainly cellulose-based plant materials.
It is possible with modern technology to live a reasonably healthy life without consuming meat products, but it is extremely difficult and you will always lack the benefits of a diet containing meat.
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can some one tell me what the great deal of dietry requirements that you can only get from meat?
Ryan covered mostly everything, but there's one crucial benefit you get out of meat that he left out:
Balls. You don't eat meat, you officially have no balls. Just a heads up.
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Agreed. :yes:
Besides, vegetarians remind me of the extreme level of decadence and convenience we have already reached - we can afford to survive without meat.
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Agreed. :yes:
Besides, vegetarians remind me of the extreme level of decadence and convenience we have already reached - we can afford to survive without meat.
mmmm i think the decadence is that we can eat meat as often as we like , the removal from the direct towards an inderect path in the food chain, i think there would be a lot less meat eaten if ppl had to raise ,capture , slaughter and butcher the animal, if we live an extremely active lifestyle that incures high level physcal work and high stress we need only 90 grams of protien a day and thats basically for some one who weighs in at about 80-90kgs,
i dont think there is a middle ground in this arguement, but the one thing is sure we do have the choice and the choice is ours, how we choose to source our protiens be it through fermented beans or through the walmart meat counter or through a road kill...;
i must say i have seen some very good points in this discussion but the level of trolling is still low level to direct and not enough wit......
Balls. You don't eat meat, you officially have no balls. Just a heads up.
just an example , by the way your mum says hi mefustae
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For every animal vegifreaks don't eat.
I'll eat four.
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Welcome to obesity - Population : You. :p
Although it gives you a handy explanation for why you spent so much on leather items. :D
To be honest I tend to agree with the sentiment. I've never liked the "I'm doing it for the animals" explanation. Without beef the cow would be extinct. It really doesn't have what it takes to survive in the wild after so long domesticated.
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For every animal vegifreaks don't eat.
I'll eat four.
so its super size me kazan , you keep it up well have to get a bigger box for you to post in....
Welcome to obesity - Population : You. :p
Although it gives you a handy explanation for why you spent so much on leather items. :D
To be honest I tend to agree with the sentiment. I've never liked the "I'm doing it for the animals" explanation. Without beef the cow would be extinct. It really doesn't have what it takes to survive in the wild after so long domesticated.
i agree kara and theres also the fact that tarmac and concrete dont make good dietry subsitutes for cows, but then again indian city cows seem to get by on there own .... just
well im going to shut up and stop trolling this topic, im off for a burger.......
a veggie one
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mmmm i think the decadence is that we can eat meat as often as we like , the removal from the direct towards an inderect path in the food chain, i think there would be a lot less meat eaten if ppl had to raise ,capture , slaughter and butcher the animal, if we live an extremely active lifestyle that incures high level physcal work and high stress we need only 90 grams of protien a day and thats basically for some one who weighs in at about 80-90kgs,
Actually, more meat would probably be eaten. People who raise, and slaughter and butcher the animals eat more meat, plus there would be less vegetarians be because the would be used to it.
also you can't spell slaughtering animals without animals laughing
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i never said i would eat it all myself :D
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To be honest I tend to agree with the sentiment. I've never liked the "I'm doing it for the animals" explanation. Without beef the cow would be extinct. It really doesn't have what it takes to survive in the wild after so long domesticated.
No matter what way you choose to feed yourself, commute to work, or build shelter for yourself, a lot of animals (and a few humans) are going to get killed in the process. For example, it's been argued that more rodents die from agricultural harvesting than there are livestock killed in slaughterhouses. There is really no such thing as "sustainable development" or magical "green" technology- those are only relative terms. All we can do is minimize.
As it is now, the worst abuses have been outlawed, but the law is inconsistently applied. In America, for example, the Animal Welfare Act only protects research subjects. As happens in most other cases, industry is placed before science, and what goes in the farms is loosely regulated. Note that many European countries have taken solid steps toward making the situation better; in the US, the situation hasn't changed much. "We", after all, are the only developed country that happily ingests recombinant bovine growth hormone along with our burgers.
It is possible to raise livestock humanely and sustainably (again, relatively speaking). It's the deliberate ignorance of the many that allows what abuses still take place to go unnoticed.
As some have mentioned before in this thread, I could deluge you with disturbing tales of the psychology used to induce rape behavior in cattle, or give you an idea of what it's like to be contained in a five by ten foot box your entire life. But if you want to know, you can easily find out yourself. There are plenty of legitimate sources available, even the American FDA (http://awic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=3&tax_level=1&tax_subject=170).
Again, the worst offenses have been effectively outlawed in the developed world. But many people deliberately remain ignorant about the work that still needs to be done.
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Again, the worst offenses have been effectively outlawed in the developed world. But many people deliberately remain ignorant about the work that still needs to be done.
ignorence is bliss, blew it away with a ......... culture shock ..........
http://www.epinions.com/content_92467859076 (http://www.epinions.com/content_92467859076)
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this is why i like eating shrimp. alot of little buggers had to die to make my meal.
muahahahahahaha
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Shrimps rock. :yes:
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Shrimps rock. :yes:
qft
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Especially with that red sause.
Don't get much shrimp in CO
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this is why i like eating shrimp. alot of little buggers had to die to make my meal.
muahahahahahaha
You realize, a shrimp is a cockroach that lives underwater... (Don't get me wrong, this doesn't stop me from eating them either :p)
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Hydroach cocktail doesn't sound as tasty. Yuk. . . . .
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I bet cockroaches taste pretty good with that red sauce too
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Try it. You might like it :ick:
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this is why i like eating shrimp. alot of little buggers had to die to make my meal.
muahahahahahaha
You realize, a shrimp is a cockroach that lives underwater... (Don't get me wrong, this doesn't stop me from eating them either :p)
Really? I'll have to try cockroachs now; they're much cheaper.
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Be careful, they can damage your throat on the way down.
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Never heard that before.. :warp:
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I bet cockroaches taste pretty good with that red sauce too
Thats actually what i was thinking... i mean i'm sure the ones that run around eating random crap can't taste very good/be very healthy, but cockroaches raised on cockroach farms and are fed grain or somthing might actually be interesting to try...
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When they're 'raised' in a clean environment, they're supposedly good for you.
Now excuse me while I go and throw-up.
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im sure the common cockroach is on a distant evolutionary path from that of shrimp. as i recall marine life came first then terrestrial life. there have probably been a shrimp of sorts in the ocean for millions of years before bugs ever existed. but by all means go eat your bugs. the flavor will be distinctly different.
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Like pheasant and vulture, birds is birds, but different kettle of fish. *tired first post of day
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im sure the common cockroach is on a distant evolutionary path from that of shrimp. as i recall marine life came first then terrestrial life. there have probably been a shrimp of sorts in the ocean for millions of years before bugs ever existed. but by all means go eat your bugs. the flavor will be distinctly different.
Shrimps: Kingdom Animalia, Phylum Arthropoda, Subphylum Crustacea, Class Malacostraca
Cockroaches: Kingdom Animalia, Phylum Arthropoda, Class Insecta, Order Dictyoptera
I did a quick search to try looking up the evolutionary distance between a common shrimp genus and common cockroach genus but I didn't hit on any promising results. Suffice it to say that the two are not that closely related. You are pretty much correct.
As for marine over terrestrial life, that is only a quick rule of thumb and should generally only be applied to the lowest phyla of the animal kingdom. Sponges are your simplest and likely earliest form of animals and are found exclusively in marine environments; by contrast, whales are also marine animals but are a relatively recent form of animal life and there are several Families (level of classification) of terrestrial animals that are considerably older in evolutionary terms. =)
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Well whales took a kind of indirect route for marine life.
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And what, exactly, are insects? almost the same damned thing as crustacens, except for the fact that they live above the water and have wings.
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And what, exactly, are insects? almost the same damned thing as crustacens, except for the fact that they live above the water and have wings.
Not all insects have wings, some live in the water, and many of their systems are entirely different from crustaceans. Their exoskeletons, for one, are almost entirely different from crustaceans in both composition and construction.
There's a reason they fall in two different classes. Keep in mind there are several levels of classification below Class (order, family, genus, species).
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I would have issues with anything more capable than me of surviving a nuclear blast.