Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: ragingloli on April 16, 2008, 04:48:28 pm

Title: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on April 16, 2008, 04:48:28 pm
So Hi everyone. It's my first post on this site.
I took the liberty of creating my  own version of the GTVA Colossus, and i thought I'd share it with you guys. Its made in Cinema 4d and exported to 3ds.

hxxp://www.megaupload.com/?d=ST9GA5VU
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: jdjtcagle on April 16, 2008, 04:54:32 pm
No KIDDING!!

You've become a legend around here already :)

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,53347.0.html

:welcome:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mobius on April 16, 2008, 04:56:55 pm
Hey, you might help IceyJones! :D

:welcomesilver:

A warm welcome from me, too! ;)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Titan on April 16, 2008, 05:05:25 pm
luckies... my comp won't access any of the links to his stuff...  :blah:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Unknown Target on April 16, 2008, 05:10:59 pm
Most awesome, welcome to HLP :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 16, 2008, 05:18:58 pm
Greetings, salutations, and welcome to the Hard Light Productions! :)


You can make the link work by replacing the x's in "hxxp" with t's, by the way... I'm assuming it's a simple typo.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: achtung on April 16, 2008, 05:26:12 pm
it can be mediavp tiem now plz?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Flipside on April 16, 2008, 05:33:50 pm
That's very kind of you, thank you :)

Welcome to HLP :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 16, 2008, 05:47:15 pm
*can't believe this is actually happening*  ;7 :yes: :nod:

it can be mediavp tiem now plz?

It would need turrets first
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on April 16, 2008, 05:47:59 pm
Welcome to HLP. Stay around and you can do all kinds of things. :)
Thanks for releasing it.  :)
Oh and if it is not to much to ask for, can you release the Arcadia? :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on April 16, 2008, 05:58:00 pm
Yes, however it needs some cleanup first, and that can take a while...Especially since im going to bed now.
Cya all later!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 16, 2008, 06:00:31 pm
Just looked at the model in Cinema 4D (demo) and SketchUp.  Its an amazing model!  Has a great amount of detail.  Its a little on the polygon heavy side (~30k polys, and tile textured) though.  Also, it has a couple of geometry errors (inverted normals, missing/overlapping faces, etc), so someone professional would have to spend some time with it before it would be ready for in-game.  But that doesn't stop me from hoping that we will see this in-game sometime in the near future.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Warp Shadow on April 16, 2008, 06:10:50 pm
*drools at memory of colossus made of awesome and win* :o
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on April 16, 2008, 06:12:13 pm
Well I opened it in Wings and it is not a closed mesh. It is in many parts.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 16, 2008, 06:17:31 pm
Well I opened it in Wings and it is not a closed mesh. It is in many parts.

And not all of them are quite connected.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Flipside on April 16, 2008, 06:44:06 pm
Well, in all fairness, it was designed to be rendered, not as an in-game model, it's sitting at 30K polies, so there's lots of room for detail-box stuff. If nothing else, it gives an excellent template to build on.

Oh, and it's fun to use in my renderer too, I might post if a pic if ragingloli doesn't mind me doing so ;)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: jdjtcagle on April 16, 2008, 06:52:52 pm
poor trashman... :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellstryker on April 16, 2008, 08:23:05 pm
THANK YOU GOD :D :D :D!!! (it was me who contacted you)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on April 16, 2008, 09:39:53 pm
poor trashman... :P

      I thought trashman was doing the concept art Colossus anyway which is entirely different from the normal one.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on April 17, 2008, 04:06:38 am
It's a nice model - well done ragingloli. :)

However, as Flipside has said - it was designed for rendering, so there'll need to be a fair bit of work done before it can be put into the MVPs, and I don't have time to do that. It will need the geometry errors fixed, turrets added and probably some work to get it to use detail boxes to reduce the load a full 30 000 poly model like this will put on GPUs.

Based on that, I don't think it will make it into the upcoming MVP release, but it could definitely go into a patch or something once it's finished. :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: TrashMan on April 17, 2008, 04:09:14 am
I am doing a Concept model...this doesn't change anything for me...except it makes me happy a good normal Collie model might be available for public consumption :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ShadowGorrath on April 17, 2008, 05:38:03 am
[proud-of-himself] And if not for me, none of you would even know these models exist ! :p [/proud-of-himself]

Now all we need is someone who can make it available in-game.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: IceyJones on April 17, 2008, 06:25:47 am
as he also comes from germany, i wrote him a PN....;)

he shall send the mesh to VA :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on April 17, 2008, 10:32:54 am
Umm, the mesh is already posted at the beginning of the thread, and VA already was here, so he should haveit alredy.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on April 17, 2008, 03:28:24 pm
Welcome to HLP ragingloli, you came with a good start indeed :)

Fix those geometry errors, and detail box it a bit (leave that 30k onfor full goodness if a machine handles it), and then get it rdy for conversion.

Long time since we had a new good modeller :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 17, 2008, 06:12:21 pm
It needs turrets too.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: IceyJones on April 18, 2008, 02:29:40 am
yeah....

but i think the mesh is not too overloaded for the game. i think it could be used directly after conversion....

but i tweaked it now for beauty-renders a bit....could not resist ;)


[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Zoltan on April 18, 2008, 03:15:20 am
yeah....

but i think the mesh is not too overloaded for the game. i think it could be used directly after conversion....

but i tweaked it now for beauty-renders a bit....could not resist ;)


It's so pretty, must...not...drool...

Well, it turns out I have no willpower; time to clean up...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on April 18, 2008, 09:54:51 am
Wow

/me  is stunned and can't type anymore
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 18, 2008, 09:57:47 am
Makes the old squirt gun look a bit more ship-like doesn't it  :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on April 18, 2008, 10:03:37 am
/me gets over it

You bet. As I said in the other thread, this almost looks like a joint T-V project, especially the middle part. Love it.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ShadowGorrath on April 18, 2008, 11:02:56 am
That's what makes it a good model.

Arcadia is very good too.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on April 18, 2008, 11:13:05 am
yeah....

but i think the mesh is not too overloaded for the game. i think it could be used directly after conversion....

but i tweaked it now for beauty-renders a bit....could not resist ;)

IMO, the background is ugly.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 18, 2008, 11:15:20 am
Whoooo!

LEEKSPIN is working on my work pc for the first time in ageees...........


Back on topic, i disagree, the background is fine :nod:

Arcadia progress anyone?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on April 18, 2008, 12:01:23 pm
I agree about the background. It looks great.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Flipside on April 18, 2008, 12:40:06 pm
Well, since Icey's going to do it ;)

(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Greens.jpg)

Time to eat your greens ;)

Though admittedly, someone is bound to point out the turret is in the wrong place, personally, I don't care :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on April 18, 2008, 12:41:26 pm
thats not were the turrent is
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Flipside on April 18, 2008, 12:43:13 pm
...

 :beamz:

:p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mobius on April 18, 2008, 01:09:31 pm
IMO, the background is ugly.

Not "ugly" but "not so FSish". Why you don't simply import the starfield texture and add many, small nebulae?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 18, 2008, 01:25:08 pm
IMO, the background is ugly.

Not "ugly" but "not so FSish". Why you don't simply import the starfield texture and add many, small nebulae?


If standard noise-generated starfield (in GIMP, default (0.20) RGB noise (unchecked independent RGB), brightness 70 / contrast 110) isn't good enough a background, feel free to use my nebula background on freespacemods.net (http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.189)... ;)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mobius on April 18, 2008, 01:34:56 pm
yeah....

but i think the mesh is not too overloaded for the game. i think it could be used directly after conversion....

but i tweaked it now for beauty-renders a bit....could not resist ;)


:yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Killer Whale on April 18, 2008, 11:31:24 pm
Can someone put it on winzip, i wanna blow up a jugger... oh wait, no turrets.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Tempest on April 19, 2008, 11:45:08 pm
That is one of the most amazing models of a Freespace ship I've seen...you took the concept of the model, and made it into exactly what it would have looked like if V could have burned through pollies like that. Makes me wish there were more FS2 missions with the colossus in it....and with normal maps it will look even better.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on April 20, 2008, 04:58:28 am
It would be cool as hell if we put the subsystems as destroyable submodels. ;7
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 20, 2008, 06:33:42 am
It would be cool as hell if we put the subsystems as destroyable submodels. ;7

You men the components the model is made of?

There's merit to the idea, but I don't know if it would work in practice the way the model is currently built. Might work, might not. IT would, at the very least, require the convertign each part to a debris component as well. And when the ship finally blows up, the parts would need to disintegrate further IMHO... :nervous: but the idea does have merit.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on April 20, 2008, 06:35:59 am
It's like the Boadicea or Raven2k+1's HTL Hecate (if it was him).
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ShadowGorrath on April 20, 2008, 06:39:22 am
Well, in this case, it'd look much better :p

I'd like it like this too.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Titan on April 20, 2008, 09:25:26 am
That things lookin great...

also, check this out:
Another Colossuss (http://imthearbiter.deviantart.com/gallery/#_featured--2), look in the middle of the page.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on April 20, 2008, 09:57:36 am
That things lookin great...

also, check this out:
Another Colossuss (http://imthearbiter.deviantart.com/gallery/#_featured--2), look in the middle of the page.
:wtf: You mean the Lego one? Meh... Don't like the colours.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on April 20, 2008, 09:19:20 pm
So i optimised the model a bit and got it down to 3800 polys untriangulated, about 6600 if you triangulate it. Had to drop some detail in the process, but i think the result is still ok. I also added some debris, however converting to 3ds screwed up the debris' texturing so the file comes with both the 3ds and the c4d file.
oh and.. sorry, still no turrets :rolleyes:

http://www.megaupload.com/de/?d=SC3VX7OL

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 20, 2008, 09:21:35 pm
So which one is the 3800 one?

EDIT: I figured it out.  I think that that is a little too much reduction.  I like some of the detail in the high-poly one.  I think that you could probably get away with 15-20000, or even just leave it at 30000 if it was detail boxed or if someone UVMapped it.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on April 20, 2008, 09:30:43 pm
The one in the middle.
the one far left has 1800 and is intended for view from long range. ill probably have to redo that one.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 20, 2008, 10:06:12 pm
Is it possible to just use that 3300-poly model (or a slightly more detailed one - 3300 is actually bit low for a capital ship in my opinion) as LOD0 and detail box it using the high-poly model on part-per-part basis?

It's a huge ship. Every time you see it whole, you likely won't have time to ogle at the detail (or lack of) from the distances. The 3300-poly version looks hell of a lot more detailed than the retail model anyway... But when you get close and are, so to speak, "skimming" near the surface of this behemoth, the high-poly parts would be beneficial.

...don't know how abrupt LOD changes that would bring about. :nervous:

Great work anyway. :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on April 20, 2008, 10:59:09 pm
To quote the Freespace Wiki:

Quote
Whilst there is no fixed limit to the number of polygons you can use on a model, and opinions vary from person to person, the writer finds the following approximate Polygon counts a good guide to work by.

    Fighters/Bombers - Less than 6000 Polygons

    Cruisers/Freighters - 6000-12000 Polygons

    Corvettes - 14000-18000 Polygons

    Destroyers - 20000-24000 Polygons

    Juggernauts - 24000 Polygons upwards

So what's wrong with 30,000 polys?

Well, to answer my own question . . it won't be 30,000 polys once the turrets are slapped on there. But it could be reduced a LITTLE bit . . . and still be decent. There's only ever going to be one in any given mission anyway.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 20, 2008, 11:00:47 pm
Experienced people (like VA) have said that those numbers are really only for UVMapped ships.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on April 21, 2008, 01:01:49 am
Experienced people (like VA) have said that those numbers are really only for UVMapped ships.

      Eh, but aren't large ships rarely uvmapped? Or are HTL ships being more and more uvmapped these days?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 21, 2008, 01:07:27 am
They are, increasingly.  Many ships still use tile texturing (its a lot easier to do), but I have heard that uvmapping really improves performance (because you are using fewer textures).
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Zacam on April 21, 2008, 01:13:51 am
Visually and performance wise, it is a better practice to utilize a single texture file and apply it to the model.

Rather that doing a patchwork or using tiling to replicate a single bit of texture all over. You don't really save on anything when you have a model that is excessively tiled other than the time it took for you to release it.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 21, 2008, 01:20:12 am
Well, you do stand to loose a little bit of detail when you are working with really high resolution tile textures, but usually this is not an issue.  But its hard to learn how to make good uvmaps if you don't know already.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on April 25, 2008, 01:22:09 am
After some fiddling around  i managed to get it into the game. still without turrets or anything. but i still don't have a clue on how to implement bump mapping

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: IceyJones on April 25, 2008, 03:51:06 am
 :yes: :yes: :yes:

now we need the TURRETS!

one suggestion:
flak: take the ones from the aeolus
beams: doesnt mind
lasers: the ones from the hecate
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: achtung on April 25, 2008, 04:26:41 am
Throw in some turrets and normal maps and win will be fully achieved.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mobius on April 25, 2008, 04:47:42 am
beams: doesnt mind

Hell no, take the beams of the Hecate! ;7
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Titan on April 25, 2008, 05:55:15 am
but bigger  :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mobius on April 25, 2008, 06:00:17 am
That was obvious :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Titan on April 25, 2008, 06:55:20 am
you could fit pair of heavy bombers in the larger turrets of that thing... Is it just me, or does the Collie have nothing except a bunch of huge green beamz?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on April 25, 2008, 06:56:02 am
It is just you :P.
Anyway nice model and good work getting it in-game.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on April 25, 2008, 11:19:54 am
you could fit pair of heavy bombers in the larger turrets of that thing... Is it just me, or does the Collie have nothing except a bunch of huge green beamz?

And decent AAA and flak coverage.
I would definitely not want to be tasked with disarming a colly.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on April 25, 2008, 05:05:16 pm
I have to admit, the ingame shot looks slightly less epic to me, although it might just be the lighting setup.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 25, 2008, 05:23:18 pm
Its probably just the lighting.  And the lack of nebulae and starfield.pof.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on April 25, 2008, 05:24:34 pm
yea, it deserves a better glory shot :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on April 25, 2008, 09:03:26 pm
yea, it deserves a better glory shot :P
Who said it was supposed to be a glory shot? :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 25, 2008, 09:37:51 pm
How many polies on the original render model?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 25, 2008, 10:24:00 pm
Its a little on the polygon heavy side (~30k polys, and tile textured) though.

Do try to read things :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ShadowGorrath on April 26, 2008, 03:45:45 am
For normal maps, glow-maps and everything, just browse around the forums a bit. There's a program that can get you to easily make normal maps, I think.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 26, 2008, 03:53:09 am
For normal maps, glow-maps and everything, just browse around the forums a bit. There's a program that can get you to easily make normal maps, I think.

It's called GIMP and normal map plugin. There's also normal map plugin for Photoshop. I would advice against using programs that easily make normal maps (like Crazybump) because they tend to sacrifice control for convenience and ease of use and in the end they make themselves worthless for tasks that require actually having control over the normal map making process...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: RyanClark on April 26, 2008, 05:51:01 am
Hey mate,

Here's a workflow video, so you can examine the level of control yourself:  http://crazybump.com/video/

You may be under a false impression.  I don't think it's possible to achieve results similar to CrazyBump's using either GIMP or Photoshop.  I guess may be wrong.  Here, I'll post an example similar to the one in the video:

           Source Photograph (http://crazybump.com/images/example_rocks/rocks_source.png)

           Output Normals (http://crazybump.com/images/example_rocks/rocks_NRM.png)
           Output Heightmap (http://crazybump.com/images/example_rocks/rocks_DISP.png)
           Output Occlusion (http://crazybump.com/images/example_rocks/rocks_OCC.png)
           Output Diffuse (http://crazybump.com/images/example_rocks/rocks_COLOR.png)
           Output Specularity (http://crazybump.com/images/example_rocks/rocks_SPEC.png)

Ignore the other maps for now; could you create similar normals and heightmap from that source, using PS or Gimp?
If so, how long would it take you?  (The whole set took around 3 minutes in CrazyBump)

Gimp has a nice advantage in that it's free... and it may be fine for your needs, depending what you're trying to accomplish.  But seriously, it's not equivalent ;)

cheers,

  -Ryan
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 26, 2008, 01:45:23 pm
I have no doubt it would work great - if we had the original source photographs in a format that CrazyBump can look at and actually understand which parts need to be up and which parts need to be down.

Unfortunately, the absolute majority of the textures used by FS2_Open does not work this way. It's almost impossible to just take a random texture, put it into CrazyBump and assume that the output is an acceptable normal map compared to what custom hand-made normal maps (derived from custom elevation map of course - this is the part that actually takes the time, getting the elevations mapped properly!) can deliver, no matter how much controls CB offers...

It's obvious that making a custom elevation map based on the texture instead of just using the texture as the source for normal map takes a lot more time than just using CB, but the results are absolutely worth it. I have tried CB with various settings, using original ship textures as sources for normal maps, and in no occasion were the results better than with hand-crafted elevation map.

Since the focus of this community pretty much values quality over quantity (which in working process translates almost directly to quality over speeding the process), handcrafted normal maps would be my preference.

And while it's established that a custom elevation map needs to be used, there should be no reason why CrazyBump would then deliver better results than any other normal map plugin... In fact I've tried that too, and I think CB's normal intensity controls are limited to too low levels; FS2_Open (or rather the current shader system) needs pretty hard contrasted normals for them to be noticeable in-game, and the intensity provided with CB has - at least for when I tried it last - been a tad bit on the low side, requiring me to increase contrast manually (in GIMP, where else) whereas with GIMP's normal map plugin I can set the scale to somewhere like 30 or 40 and the normal map will directly be on the levels that are noticeable, usable and look good in FS2_Open in-game (I just need to convert it to DDS normal map format, red to alpha and green to red, green and blue channels, and it'll usually look fine...)

For generating normal maps from photos/textures directly, CB definitely works better than any plugin, because it does offer some control over the intensity of differently sized details and so on. But, in a hand crafted normal map these can be put into the source elevation map already, with basic understanding on slopes, gradients and sharp transitions from "low" to "high" (or dark to bright).

So what I'm saying is that the problem is not with CB - it's a fine tool for what it's designed to do -  it's that we have no source maps that can be used directly as normal map sources. Largely because occlusion is usually baked into the textures at this point, which causes all kinds of brightness changes on the texture, which are interpreted as elevation changes (though with the size/intensity controls this problem can be minimized, it still remains) but also because all the decals and non-elevation-related details on the texture are also used if a texture is put directly to CB.

Good example would be the Hercules Mark 2 texture which has a bright white number two on it's side. Or yellow-black warning stripes, or or even scorchmarks that are darker than the surrounding hull (but aren't actually meant to be dents).

That said, CB does produce surprisingly good normals for some of the textures. I have used some of the more passable ones as placeholders while I'm waiting for someone to do the deed with handcrafted normal maps, and like I said, thus far all of the handcrafted ones are cleaner and more accurate.

Also, when I referred to sacrificing "control over convenience" I basically meant it in FS2_Open context for the reasons explained above... Hand-crafting the elevation map does offer unparalleled level of control - though for starters the nature of transitions from low to high, and it's effect on the final normal map can be a bit difficult to understand.

But hey, thanks for taking an interest in this community - and welcome to Hard Light Productions! :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 02:28:55 pm
:bump:

Still alive? Any progress?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on May 05, 2008, 07:33:36 pm
Any chance of getting that Arcadia? :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on May 11, 2008, 10:14:55 am
Sorry, the PSU of the PC where everything is stored blew out 2 weeks ago. can't work on it until i get my new one. :sigh:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 11, 2008, 10:35:03 am
Do you have another PC where you could plug in the HDD?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ragingloli on May 11, 2008, 11:16:35 am
Unfortunately not, none of my other PCs supports sata. I know i could buy an adapter, but i think i will simply wait for my PSU.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on May 12, 2008, 11:56:22 am
No rush.  It wasn't going to make it into the new VPs anyway.  Just glad to have it at all.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 08, 2009, 11:10:50 pm
:bump:Ultrabump!!!:bump:

For those of you who remember, I got a hold of RagingLoli's Colossus before it went down. Here it is.

(http://pjfoliver.googlepages.com/colossus.jpg)

I've been working on cleaning it up for in-game use and the base geometry is about done. The original engines were a horrid mess, though, so VasudanAdmiral made some new ones.

(http://pjfoliver.googlepages.com/colossus2.jpg)

Recently I've been fitting it out for turrets; here's what I have so far. It's a little conservative, I know, but I think it suits the feel of the model.

Radar Dish:
(http://pjfoliver.googlepages.com/collie-radar.jpg)

Flak Gun:
(http://pjfoliver.googlepages.com/collie-flak.jpg)

Anti-fighter beam:
(http://pjfoliver.googlepages.com/collie-aaa.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on March 08, 2009, 11:30:26 pm
:yes:
AWESOME
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on March 08, 2009, 11:37:30 pm
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

This is incredibly cool.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Krelus on March 08, 2009, 11:45:18 pm
Very nice, holy cow.

It's amazing how big of a difference some extra detail can make. I can guarantee that once this is done, the first thing I'll do is replay the FS2 Main Campaign.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Narvi on March 08, 2009, 11:46:58 pm
Erotic.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on March 08, 2009, 11:49:40 pm
Gonna keep the sweet off-center turning?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellstryker on March 09, 2009, 01:49:46 am
Beautiful... :jaw: ...Next up, HTL Arcadia?  :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on March 09, 2009, 02:53:45 am
:eek: Simply awesome. Only thing I'm (personally) not entirely sure about is the head, it looks "different"from the original one. Probably the upper cap there; I remember the original Collie's head as being more flat on the top.

Still though, great job. On the turrets and (especially) the radar dishes as well :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on March 09, 2009, 03:13:36 am
things I think could improve it:

it is missing the V of lights on the sides, this was a fairly distinctive feature on an otherwise featureless ship. it'dd be nice if it was on this ship.

all the girder greeble should not be filled in, there should be a bunch of additional greebly stuff under a freestanding girder structure.

the lower pylon structure needs some more detail, maybe just a simple extrusion about halfway down.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 09, 2009, 05:41:28 am
Good to see that it's still alive, as it is without doubt the most epic ship we have to work with. I love the equipment being made for, it's simple, but it works!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Jadehawk on March 09, 2009, 10:20:29 am
Hubba-hubba! Can't wait to get my texturing paws on this one  ;7
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 09, 2009, 04:55:21 pm
Jadehawk: You want to texture it? Here's what the UV map looks like right now.

With a model this complex... I am really unsure that any post-UV texturing can be done. If you want to get an idea of what the final UV might look like, grab the high-poly Iceni and look at that.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on March 09, 2009, 05:35:49 pm
O_o
That doesn't look fun to retexture.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on March 09, 2009, 06:18:42 pm
Almost reeks of auto-unwrap :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 09, 2009, 06:26:25 pm
Yes, that's the point. :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Jadehawk on March 09, 2009, 06:31:13 pm
After looking at that, I think this model should be done with a combo of Tiles and UV Map Texture. Tiles for the major portions and UV Map texture for details. I say this because it will be difficult to keep the major surfaces rendered the same scale when it's stretched over a flat surface such as a single UV map unless the mapping is done at the same scale and with no stretching what so ever. Given that, I see about three or four 2048X2048 textures to completely render this large ship in a satisfactory manner in my opinion. Others may have a better idea?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on March 09, 2009, 06:48:45 pm
But then you loose the benefits of ambient occlusion...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 10, 2009, 03:52:02 am
I've finished with the modeling and placement of turrets (each weapon type has its own model) and the necessary hull modifications to mount them. As you can see from the first image I've started detail-box greebling.

I'm not very good at it though, mainly because I can't seem to create objects 'on' a polygon in Blender. Max had the AutoGrid function, which I'm looking for here and can't find.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-turreted1.jpg)

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-turreted2.jpg)

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-turreted3.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ssmit132 on March 10, 2009, 04:15:35 am
It's looking fantastic! :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on March 10, 2009, 09:07:51 am
I have yet to see where you're 'not very good'. But I trust you.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 10, 2009, 10:36:16 am
I'd love to help you out with the greebling and finer details...  :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Ziame on March 10, 2009, 12:19:54 pm
And THAT'S the pride of GTVA AND HLP ^^
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Jadehawk on March 10, 2009, 01:16:13 pm
Looking great so far! :)  :yes:

Question: Are thoes window rectangles in the recess parts I see? If so, I'd rather have them not shown on the model and taken care of with normals. Would reduce your poly count and be easier for the textureurs. If they are something else, then ignore this message!  :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: BS403 on March 10, 2009, 01:40:25 pm
Personally I like the recessed parts and think they should stay.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Narvi on March 10, 2009, 01:52:28 pm
... I just realized that the big V of lights is a reference to... :v: .
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on March 10, 2009, 03:40:12 pm
What big V of lights?

Anyway, looking good :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on March 10, 2009, 03:53:39 pm
As I said before, GODS. :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on March 10, 2009, 04:57:40 pm
the big V that was not put in to this model but is on the origonal, nice someone else noticed.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on March 10, 2009, 05:31:31 pm
Thought you were only doing missiles nowadays :P

Terrific model, can't wait to fly trough it :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on March 10, 2009, 05:33:49 pm
I'd hit that... with a BFred.  ;7
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on March 10, 2009, 05:45:41 pm
So let me get this straight ... you're just going to bake the tiles onto the UVmap...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Darklord42 on March 10, 2009, 08:32:40 pm
Nope, he is going to deep fry that turkey; it's faster.   ;)

That really looks amazing!  Really looking forward to seeing it in game.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: IceFire on March 10, 2009, 08:53:46 pm
Oh my god...that looks fantastic!  No really.  Its sexy.  You made the Colossus sexy.  Wow!

Keep up the fantastic work!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 10, 2009, 09:39:24 pm
Is this style/level/scale of greebling OK? I haven't really done this before. I think if anything it's inconsistent... but then greebles are supposed to be varied...

Anyway if someone wants to point out which style of greebles I should do more of and which I should drop, please do so.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-greebles.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on March 10, 2009, 09:48:15 pm
You plan on greebling the ENTIRE SHIP with that amount of detail? :eek2:  It's already 30k polies...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on March 10, 2009, 09:57:36 pm
SEXY!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 10, 2009, 09:58:56 pm
You plan on greebling the ENTIRE SHIP with that amount of detail? :eek2:  It's already 30k polies...

No no no, just selected 'exposed' areas, like that panel, the big recessed areas in the middle, and the gaps between the triangular girders. (I figured out how to align stuff to faces, btw.)

And besides, the model you see now has been HEAVILY optimized. The main hull is about 22,000 polies triangulated, and we can expect about that same number in turrets and detail-boxed greebles.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellstryker on March 10, 2009, 10:10:00 pm
Is this style/level/scale of greebling OK? I haven't really done this before. I think if anything it's inconsistent... but then greebles are supposed to be varied...

Anyway if someone wants to point out which style of greebles I should do more of and which I should drop, please do so.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-greebles.jpg)

Lol@Marathon Logo in upper left  ;)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: brandx0 on March 10, 2009, 10:26:08 pm
Just for Galemp's reference:

[20:07] <Brand-X> Well Galemp, here's what I'd suggest, looking at that
[20:07] <Brand-X> 1) Recessed areas, to make it look as if things just aren't tossed on there
[20:08] <Brand-X> 2) Have multiple levels of greebles (as in greebles on top of greebles)
[20:09] <Brand-X> also that means differing heights between them, some that protrude far more than others
[20:09] <Brand-X> good example:
[20:09] <Brand-X> http://www.cloudster.com/sets&vehicles/SWstarDestroyer/StarDestroyer081.jpg
[20:10] <Brand-X> create bigger greebles, then greeble those greebles
[20:10] <Brand-X> It'll create a more structured look
[20:10] <@Galemp> hm
[20:11] <Brand-X> Also, have in mind a purpose for the greebles, think of what the area does and greeble it appropriately.  Build a story for each greeble
[20:12] <@Galemp> good idea
[20:13] <Brand-X> It'll help with believability a lot, and take it to the next level, from random bits stuck on for no reason to having a purpose
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on March 10, 2009, 11:48:09 pm
That's what I meant to tell jacek about the Action VI, believability.  Gotta remember to pass that on.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Narvi on March 11, 2009, 01:58:12 am
I prefer symmetry on my greebles. Right now, it kinda just looks like a circuit board.

I still want the V too.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Pred the Penguin on March 11, 2009, 05:17:34 am
The Colossus no longer looks ugly to me. o_o
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 11, 2009, 12:00:09 pm
Taking Brand's advice. This area is the forward docking array, with ports for all kinds of service connectors.

Thoughts?

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-greebles2.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on March 11, 2009, 12:59:06 pm
Nice! A service port!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on March 11, 2009, 01:05:58 pm
Yep, definetly go with brands advice
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: brandx0 on March 11, 2009, 03:30:46 pm
Looking much better Galemp
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Krelus on March 11, 2009, 04:35:43 pm
For some stupid reason, I find the word "greeble" funny, so that chat log sent me into a fit of giggles >.>

Good advice, though - the revision on that panel is awesome.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on March 11, 2009, 05:06:27 pm
God I can't wait to see this in action.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on March 12, 2009, 12:20:51 am
Very nice. Like the docking port a lot better than the random jumble.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 12, 2009, 07:34:00 am
You plan on greebling the ENTIRE SHIP with that amount of detail? :eek2:  It's already 30k polies...

Why not?
It's a unique ship and with LODs it shouldn't be a huge problem (obviously a lot of work, but I'm use to making +100k poly capital ships...)

The Colly certainly deserves more than 40k polygons...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on March 12, 2009, 10:00:15 am
The issue with ships like that isn't making them, it's the impact they have on the game's performance.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on March 12, 2009, 10:38:08 am
Right. Model efficiency is important. But detail boxing should help out, right?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on March 12, 2009, 07:56:25 pm
Yeah.  Plus, if it' only ~50k polies like Galemp said, it should be fine.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on March 13, 2009, 11:33:16 am
And I used to think 10k was a lot.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Krelus on March 13, 2009, 01:10:27 pm
And I used to think 10k was a lot.

At one time, a 20MB hard drive went for over $200.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Flaser on March 13, 2009, 01:46:22 pm
You plan on greebling the ENTIRE SHIP with that amount of detail? :eek2:  It's already 30k polies...

That's what detail boxes are there for.
I think Galactic Emperor could go overboard with this ship, since only one will ever be in a mission and it's so darn big that it begs for detail boxes to further optimize it.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on March 13, 2009, 02:12:27 pm
I think Galactic Emperor could go overboard with this ship, since only one will ever be in a mission...
Well, unless you're playing one particularly infamous campaign. :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Titan on March 13, 2009, 04:11:27 pm
Oh, I love that one!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on March 13, 2009, 04:12:34 pm
Well, unless you're playing one particularly infamous campaign. :p
:confused:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on March 13, 2009, 04:17:51 pm
Well, unless you're playing one particularly infamous campaign. :p
:confused:
Just Another Day 3, IIRC.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on March 13, 2009, 04:32:17 pm
There's never more than one Colossus in any of those missions though.
I think Mongoose is saying there's a campaign with missions that have more than one Colossus in the same mission.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ssmit132 on March 13, 2009, 08:36:57 pm
Spoiler:
Second Great War Part II. :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on March 13, 2009, 08:42:54 pm
Oh right. :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Krelus on March 13, 2009, 11:01:04 pm
One of these days I'm gonna have to play through that fabulous turd.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on March 14, 2009, 08:30:36 am
You end up having the same amount of kills as if you played the original FS2 campaign two - three times over. :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Jadehawk on March 28, 2009, 06:24:10 pm
Taking Brand's advice. This area is the forward docking array, with ports for all kinds of service connectors.

Thoughts?

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-greebles2.jpg)

Any progress on this beaut? Just askin  :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 28, 2009, 07:15:53 pm
Nah, I've been focusing my efforts on FSPort 3.2 now that the SVN repository is set up. It's mainly about Templar, and loose ends in the interface department.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Jadehawk on March 28, 2009, 08:06:43 pm
OK, thanks for the update Galemp and good luck on that too.  :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SPECTRE87 on April 15, 2009, 01:40:15 pm
Galemp, is there any chance I could get an skp.file of that Beauty??  ;)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 15, 2009, 02:33:08 pm
No(t much of a) chance, Sketchup is very sketchy for this kind of work. Exporting it would be a nightmare.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellstryker on April 15, 2009, 05:58:36 pm
No(t much of a) chance, Sketchup is very sketchy for this kind of work. Exporting it would be a nightmare.

You're dumb.

I'm sorry, I am really sorry, but I am sick and tired of ignorant people bashing sketchup with no knowledge of what they are talking about. It is not a powerful modeling program, but in the hands of somebody with half a brain its geometry is just fine upon export.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 15, 2009, 07:07:25 pm
I realize that, but most of the population does not have even half of a brain.

Not bashing you SPECTRE, however SU does have a few more stumbling blocks (or at least differences from the norm)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on April 15, 2009, 08:01:06 pm
Export 3ds from Blender.  It won't have any textures, but it will import into SketchUp fine, despite what the naysayers may say.  Though Spectre, I do have an old version of the HTL Colossus (the original one ragingloli posted) with the model cleaned up slightly (probably still a mess) as SKP.  Are you interested?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on April 15, 2009, 08:14:55 pm
[TEC voice]There's work to be done, are you interested?[/TEC voice]
:nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellstryker on April 16, 2009, 12:50:18 pm
I realize that, but most of the population does not have even half of a brain.

Not bashing you SPECTRE, however SU does have a few more stumbling blocks (or at least differences from the norm)

I realize that, but the four people on this forum who do use SU do.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Titan on April 16, 2009, 05:18:27 pm
Hellstryker, YOU use SU.  :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Unknown Target on April 16, 2009, 06:50:36 pm
:lol:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 16, 2009, 07:01:37 pm
Don't laugh, he insulted you too.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on April 16, 2009, 08:45:09 pm
[TEC voice]There's work to be done, are you interested?[/TEC voice]
:nervous:

YOUR FAILURE MAKES A POOR IMPRESSION.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellstryker on April 16, 2009, 11:33:48 pm
What do you mean insult? I meant the four people on HLP who use SU (Me, Blowfish, Bryon, Spectre) are not complete idiots.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on April 17, 2009, 09:26:10 pm
[TEC voice]There's work to be done, are you interested?[/TEC voice]
:nervous:

YOUR FAILURE MAKES A POOR IMPRESSION.

Why are we quoting Sins now?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 17, 2009, 10:16:26 pm
Insufficient funds!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on April 17, 2009, 10:18:17 pm
Do this quickly if you seek the Unity's Favor.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 17, 2009, 10:41:13 pm
No.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Jadehawk on April 18, 2009, 11:30:57 am
Ahem back on Topic shall we?  :D

I do hope to see this ship completed someday soon. I'm well aware your very busy and I'll wait patiently while my brain explodes from the stress.  :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on April 24, 2009, 04:38:48 am
If I wasn't on vacation I'd moderate the heck out of this thread, but I am so you're lucky for now.

I spent some time redoing the Colossal neck in the airport, and during downtime at my grandparents'. There is now an inner, greebled neck underneath the outer ribs, and you should be able to fly through it with no problems. (Actually it's only about 35% greebled right now, but you get the idea.)

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-ribs.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on April 24, 2009, 05:06:07 am
Nice.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dilmah G on April 24, 2009, 05:31:52 am
Awesomeosis :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: TrashMan on April 24, 2009, 06:39:48 am
Don't like it. Makes the collie look even more flimsy than usual.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dilmah G on April 24, 2009, 06:45:31 am
That's... traditionally what the original Colossus model was trying to do though wasn't it?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on April 24, 2009, 07:35:28 am
Don't like it. Makes the collie look even more flimsy than usual.
Last I remembered triangles were the strongest structural form next to circles.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on April 24, 2009, 08:52:15 am
Awesome. Love it.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Angelus on April 24, 2009, 12:54:19 pm
 :eek2:Pure awesomeness!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: TrashMan on April 24, 2009, 02:06:58 pm
That's... traditionally what the original Colossus model was trying to do though wasn't it?

Not a grid tube within a grid tube. The neck is way thinner in this configuration. The original didn't have holes in the neck.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Skarab on April 24, 2009, 06:41:49 pm
I would imagine the original didn't have holes in the neck because at the time the game was made, such detail would have jacked up the polys to levels computers of the day would have choked on any time the collie showed up.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Zacam on April 24, 2009, 11:06:43 pm
Galemp: Pure hawt. Thank you.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on April 25, 2009, 01:25:46 am
This must have been what :v: intended, I'd say. The 'truss' is there on the texture. And IMHO the beams seem sturdy enough not to make the ship look flimsy :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: castor on April 25, 2009, 03:54:22 am
This is a great idea! Need to see the whole ship with it, but looks promising.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on April 25, 2009, 05:29:19 am
Not a grid tube within a grid tube. The neck is way thinner in this configuration. The original didn't have holes in the neck.

It's not thinner at all--you're looking at it from the side. From the top, the outer girder truss retains the original shape of the neck, while the inner tube has straighter edges.

Here's a render from a different angle.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-ribs2.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SPECTRE87 on April 25, 2009, 07:59:58 am
Export 3ds from Blender.  It won't have any textures, but it will import into SketchUp fine, despite what the naysayers may say.  Though Spectre, I do have an old version of the HTL Colossus (the original one ragingloli posted) with the model cleaned up slightly (probably still a mess) as SKP.  Are you interested?

Very much so, yes :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: TrashMan on April 25, 2009, 09:38:45 am
I would imagine the original didn't have holes in the neck because at the time the game was made, such detail would have jacked up the polys to levels computers of the day would have choked on any time the collie showed up.

Note a diffrence between grider "holes" (a.k.a. extrusions or intrusions...depends how you look at it) and a grider structure holding a inner neck. A lot of empty volume. Less structural integrity
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 25, 2009, 10:37:07 am
Who (besides you) cares? It doesn't matter as FS is a game.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on April 25, 2009, 11:39:48 am
Structural Integrity in FreeSpace is determined by a field in it's ships.tbl entry and nothing else, except for special-hits in FRED.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Ziame on April 25, 2009, 12:12:30 pm
Structural Integrity in FreeSpace is determined by a field in it's ships.tbl entry and nothing else, except for special-hits in FRED.

He meant like in "REAL LIFE"
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on April 25, 2009, 12:21:59 pm
Yeah, well, don't we just usually go by the 'rule of cool', and disregard "REAL LIFE" anyway?
And don't most current day space craft have exposed triangular girders with nothing in between?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: TrashMan on April 25, 2009, 12:27:48 pm
Do as you wish.
Altough my personal preference is to design warships like they are...you know.. actually built for war?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on April 25, 2009, 01:05:51 pm
Note a diffrence between grider "holes" (a.k.a. extrusions or intrusions...depends how you look at it) and a grider structure holding a inner neck. A lot of empty volume. Less structural integrity
Probably the girders were just leftovers from the construction stage which were left in. Also note that there aren't any "holes" at all in the first place. The girders may have been there to add structural integrity to the area, not as a skeleton or whatever.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Krelus on April 25, 2009, 03:40:13 pm
Girders can offer the same support as a solid wad of metal, almost, with a substantial reduction in mass. Just look at many pieces of heavy duty equipment that have to put up with a lot of abuse (Cranes, radio antennae, suspension bridges (http://www.northeastroads.com/pennsylvania500/i-676_ben_franklin_bridge.jpg)...)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 25, 2009, 04:11:17 pm
No, TrashMan is technically right in this case. The reason why girdered structures are used is because they weigh much less and can therefore better support their own weight as well as other load.

However, solid pipe IS stronger than a hollow tube of same material and diameter. So yes, a solid chunk of metal would be stronger than girder structure. But, in space the weight is nonexistant (as it depends on gravity, although inertial mass is still present and can cause some pretty interesting structural strength requirements if you want the ship to be capable of turning fast or being able to accelerate rapidly). In fact, structural strength in traditional engineering sense has little relevance to ships that spend their entire lives in space, like the Orions or Colossus.

 However, how are you going to pull that off? Weld enough girders together to form a solid hull? The amount of building materials increases drastically. Structurally it's not that much stronger, and even though you might get some better armour plating as a result, the maneuverability and acceleration of the ship decrease linearly as the mass increases.

A girder-like skeleton structure with internal hull makes sense, especially if you consider that more than likely Colossus was rushed into service when the Shivans made themselves a threat again. The timing of Colossus to enter service when it did always seemed a bit conspicuous to me, except if you assume that the GTVA chose to push it into service partially incomplete.

Explains the lacking turrets as well. :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on April 25, 2009, 04:24:57 pm
There were some WWI/WWII era battleships with a lot of girders on the superstructure. Looked pretty decent to me.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FSW on April 25, 2009, 07:24:49 pm
It looks very, very cool.

However, I'm concerned that the presence of that girder may affect gameplay too much. Couldn't a fighter just sit under the girder, shielded from fire? A big ship like this is bound to have some blind spots, but this would be far too obvious. Also, a small amount of weaponfire may go through what used to be solid hull.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on April 25, 2009, 08:07:04 pm
It looks very, very cool.

However, I'm concerned that the presence of that girder may affect gameplay too much. Couldn't a fighter just sit under the girder, shielded from fire? A big ship like this is bound to have some blind spots, but this would be far too obvious. Also, a small amount of weaponfire may go through what used to be solid hull.

Yeah, I was just thinking that. It's much like that one high-poly Sathanas with the rib-things underneath the back. Cool as it may look, it would play differently.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 25, 2009, 08:07:24 pm
That wouldn't matter as blobs and guns are useless against it. And what would be different between hiding in the Arcadia Ring/Orion fighterbay and hiding in the Colossus?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on April 25, 2009, 08:16:59 pm
The fact that the Colossus doesn't have places to hide in in retail, and that the fighter AI is too dumb to properly take out a fighter hiding in a place like that.

In other words, it would mess up existing missions.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 25, 2009, 08:20:19 pm
The only people who do things like that don't matter anyways.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on April 25, 2009, 08:41:28 pm
The fact that the Colossus doesn't have places to hide in in retail...
Actually you're pretty much safe flying between the gap where the engine block is.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on April 26, 2009, 01:22:31 am
The fact that the Colossus doesn't have places to hide in in retail, and that the fighter AI is too dumb to properly take out a fighter hiding in a place like that.

In other words, it would mess up existing missions.
Stop worrying about it. :p The amount of pure awesome factor this setup has over the original setup blows any piddly little cons like that out of the water.

Same for the 'not warship-like enough' argument too actually. With FS-universe models, the rule of thumb is (eyecandy/awesome) > realism. And besides, HT is quite right - the strength internal decks and stuff would add to the neck as a whole would be negligable compared to that of the external girders.

Looks fantastic Galemp - great idea, and keep it up. :D

Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on April 26, 2009, 10:39:07 am
Do as you wish.
Altough my personal preference is to design warships like they are...you know.. actually built for war?

True, but a game with completely smooth spaceships with no greeble (only idiots would build warships with exposed piping/hardware) is lame. Besides, building the neck with much less mass (we're talking the equivalent of an entire skyscraper's worth of empty volume) means that there's less stress on it when the colossus tries to turn. Otherwise, it may snap in two or something.

Hmmm. I'm wondering if it's possible to get colly-batted in a way that gets you stuck in the girders, so that you bounce/vibrate in the gap before dustifying. Might be funny.

But carry on. It's looking plenty awesome.

Edit: I just realized that this has the potential to look like absolute rubbish because the girders can't cast shadows. Can we fix that?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on April 26, 2009, 11:33:30 am
Muahahaha lack of shadows FTL.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on April 26, 2009, 11:57:59 am
I can bake the basic ambient occlusion that you can see here onto the texture, but hard stenciled shadows will have to wait.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 26, 2009, 02:52:07 pm
Do as you wish.
Altough my personal preference is to design warships like they are...you know.. actually built for war?

True, but a game with completely smooth spaceships with no greeble (only idiots would build warships with exposed piping/hardware) is lame. Besides, building the neck with much less mass (we're talking the equivalent of an entire skyscraper's worth of empty volume) means that there's less stress on it when the colossus tries to turn. Otherwise, it may snap in two or something.

Hmmm. I'm wondering if it's possible to get colly-batted in a way that gets you stuck in the girders, so that you bounce/vibrate in the gap before dustifying. Might be funny.

But carry on. It's looking plenty awesome.

Edit: I just realized that this has the potential to look like absolute rubbish because the girders can't cast shadows. Can we fix that?
I just realized. The CN Tower is 500 metres tall, the Colossus is 12 times that in length. Have you seen the CN Tower? It's big.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Krelus on April 26, 2009, 03:16:22 pm
Do as you wish.
Altough my personal preference is to design warships like they are...you know.. actually built for war?

True, but a game with completely smooth spaceships with no greeble (only idiots would build warships with exposed piping/hardware) is lame. Besides, building the neck with much less mass (we're talking the equivalent of an entire skyscraper's worth of empty volume) means that there's less stress on it when the colossus tries to turn. Otherwise, it may snap in two or something.

Hmmm. I'm wondering if it's possible to get colly-batted in a way that gets you stuck in the girders, so that you bounce/vibrate in the gap before dustifying. Might be funny.

But carry on. It's looking plenty awesome.

Edit: I just realized that this has the potential to look like absolute rubbish because the girders can't cast shadows. Can we fix that?
I just realized. The CN Tower is 500 metres tall, the Colossus is 12 times that in length. Have you seen the CN Tower? It's big.

You shoulda seen my face the first time I flew down the spine of the Colly. Absolutely gigantic ship.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on April 26, 2009, 03:32:25 pm
I know, hey? Scale in freespace is horking massive, yet it doesn't seem like it. I blame over-sized cockpits. I mean, when you've got yourself a canopy the size of a large room (Valkyrie), but your mind's correcting that down to the cockpit sizes we're used to on modern day fighter jets, it's really hard to get a sense of scale.

I mean, the herc's the size of a house, and hornets are taller than people. Cyclops are limousine-sized, but thicker. Freespace ships are really, really big.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on April 26, 2009, 03:48:36 pm
FOV settings can help with that, a bit.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on April 26, 2009, 09:53:22 pm
the girder thing is great, make sure to do that everywhere the original texture was like that, and put the V on the sides and we'll have this thing about wrapped up.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: TomJeffersonJones on April 27, 2009, 02:00:14 pm
I always thought the girder-texture on the colossus's neck was pretty stupid looking....but when you extend and flesh it out like this it starts to look very very good,

nice work galemp - really looking forward to this one.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dilmah G on May 03, 2009, 03:50:37 am
Well with retail textures you can barely tell what the neck is anyway :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on May 03, 2009, 02:21:47 pm
Well with retail textures you can barely tell what the neck is anyway :P
I certainly never noticed the girder pattern myself. :p I love what Galemp's done with it, though.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on May 03, 2009, 02:28:16 pm
Yeah, what Galemp's done is nice.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: maelstrom0511 on May 04, 2009, 12:37:33 pm
this is really good... keep it up!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on May 24, 2009, 11:41:19 pm
An update, another neck surface is done and I've added and cleaned up some window lights (not pictured.)

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/moreneckgreebles.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on May 24, 2009, 11:43:54 pm
Whoa nice.  But what's the current polycount?  This is shaping up to be as much of a beast as the Hades :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Davin on May 25, 2009, 07:36:03 am
Whoa nice.  But what's the current polycount?  This is shaping up to be as much of a beast as the Hades :D
Well, it is kinda bigger than the hades :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on May 25, 2009, 10:07:50 pm
There's an HTL hades?? Huh?

And yes, definitely like how this is coming along. Can't wait to see it in-game (even though that's a while from now).
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on May 25, 2009, 10:16:04 pm
There's an HTL hades?? Huh?
Yes, but it's not done yet.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on May 26, 2009, 05:09:40 am
I have a little request about the HTL Colossus (and Hades too).
Can you release them in two versions?
One tile-textured and one UV mapped?
I'm asking for it because I very like reskinning those ships and it would be very nice to have possiblity ro retexture their HTL versions.
The point is UV mapping always maked retexturing much harder.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on May 26, 2009, 10:00:18 am
The performance drag that tile texturing induces pretty much negates the benefits of easy retexturing.  Personally I doubt that anyone is really going to bother creating a tiled version.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on May 26, 2009, 11:13:21 am
Unfortunately I'm missing HTL Superships to reskin ,I'm already using Titan ,Amaretsu and enlarged Daegon ,I wish there was more of them around (for example HTL Stratcomm's Archangel ,even lo-poly model is awesome).
I very like Colossus for it's style ,it's just the terran battleship ,in fact it's all because of this <attachment>.
It would be fine if I could reskin HTL one like that.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Black Wolf on May 26, 2009, 11:32:53 am
(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-turreted3.jpg)

Is something similar going to be done with these girders as was done with the neck? If so, awesome :D

Also, exactly how big are the gaps between the girders? Would it be worth the polywastage to maybe put a smaller grid inside the triangles to prevent fighters flying in?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on May 26, 2009, 11:52:59 am
I don't see any problem with fighters flying in. The Colossus has so many blind spots anyway, and since it's nigh invulnerable to fighters anyway, it hardly matters. The only issue I can think of is AI fighters getting stuck somewhere, and even then they wouldn't fare much better with a low-poly model anyway.

As for those other girders... hm, a nice thought. I'll take a look.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 26, 2009, 03:06:38 pm
So did you use any of RL's model or did you start from scratch?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on May 26, 2009, 05:38:00 pm
I think the base model is ragingloli's and Galemp's uberfying the details.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on July 15, 2009, 12:04:02 am
I've got to say, this is the single-most impressive HTLing I've ever seen.

WANT.

(Any progress?)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 15, 2009, 12:22:19 am
Well, aside from making FSPort 3.2 odds and ends, including interface art, I'm looking for a job.

Also, there's this project.


<----------

So, Colossus is on standby for now.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on July 15, 2009, 12:54:15 am
Wait!  You're coming over to California? :eek2:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 15, 2009, 01:24:52 am
Any ideas about that LOD-Box hangar we discussed that one time in RL Galemp?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Black Wolf on July 15, 2009, 10:25:03 am
Wait!  You're coming over to California? :eek2:

Nobody comes to California. They only go. With an aching... in their heart.

*hums*
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 15, 2009, 11:12:06 am
Yeah, I'm moving to south Sacramento in... umm, 12 days? This is a big state so unless you live somewhere on I-80, Blowfish, we probably won't get to meet up.

As for the LOD-Box hangar, I think I would only really be doing it justice if it was an actual low-poly diorama of the main hall, which I'm not about to start making. It would be interesting if someone made one to be plugged in to other models, like the cockpits, though...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 15, 2009, 11:22:31 am
The new main hall is a hecate deck though surely :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 15, 2009, 12:14:08 pm
And the new cockpit is surely an Apollo. Hasn't stopped anyone, though.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 15, 2009, 12:34:34 pm
I defy your superior logic with inappropriate gestures :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on July 15, 2009, 12:37:36 pm
,,|,


Errm, anyway. This is going to be UVMapped right? Which poor soul will be doing that? Muahahahaha!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 15, 2009, 01:32:27 pm
I'm pretty sure I asked that when I saw the model first hand during Galemps stay over here. He didn't react too well to the thought. . But i've got one hundred percent confidence :)   
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on July 15, 2009, 06:26:22 pm
It was auto-uv'ed a while ago.  Based on that, my guess is that textures will be baked on, though I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 15, 2009, 08:08:54 pm
I haven't even considered it, as there's so much still to do on the mesh. However I can narrow it down:

1) RagingLoli. It is his model, after all, and he's been doing such an incredible job on the Hatshepsut that I think he would make the textures the best they could possibly be.

2) VasudanAdmiral. His work on the Hades has set the new standard for texturing high-poly, supercapital ships.

3) Myself. I gotta learn how to do this sort of thing sooner or later.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 16, 2009, 12:52:37 am
Following BlackWolf's suggestion...

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-bottomgirders.jpg)

There's some very nasty nonplanar geometry up in that join area, but with smoothgroups it should look acceptable.

I'll put the bare minimum of greebles in here, since it's so dark.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Black Wolf on July 16, 2009, 01:24:47 am
Awesome :) It really works there - the way the bits hang over what is proper scaffolding now makes it look like they built the thing to a design, you know? Like this bit has to go here, and this bit here, and they have to be connected, but it doesn't all have to be one lump of metal.

Like a prototype should look. :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on July 16, 2009, 02:41:08 am
Brilliant. :D In full agreement with BW about the realism the girders add.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on July 16, 2009, 05:37:09 am
TURRETS!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on July 16, 2009, 06:33:57 am
You people are simply incredible.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 16, 2009, 01:15:20 pm
TURRETS!

:wtf: Turrets..?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on July 16, 2009, 04:19:48 pm
TURRETS!

:wtf: Turrets..?

He means Tourette's.

It's what he's got. His symptoms seem to become more prominent when he is inebriated.

Have you considered putting something solid in those areas that have the nasty geometry now? Id est, either plug it with something, or put something to further limit its visibility.

I also like what I'm seeing as far as the turrets go.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on July 16, 2009, 04:45:36 pm
TURRETS!

:wtf: Turrets..?
Anything on the last picture that isn't green or yellow... :doubt:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 16, 2009, 06:00:22 pm
I decided to forgo the greebles in favor of a full-blown spaceframe.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-girders2.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 16, 2009, 11:05:23 pm
Doing work on the hangar now. First, the outside--you can enter by following the neck all the way down to where it meets the body, or you can use the usual launch bay.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-hangar3.jpg)

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-hangar1.jpg)

Here's the inside, so far. I terminated the neck interior and bracing by making them into command areas for launch control. Expect lights on the lower area soon.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-hangar2.jpg)

As for the rest of the hangar, I think I'm going to do some tinkering in GIMP with the FS2 Main Hall and make it into a low-poly diorama. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dilmah G on July 16, 2009, 11:10:03 pm
Oh.My.God.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on July 16, 2009, 11:36:33 pm
Dear lord... :eek2:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on July 17, 2009, 02:14:07 am
...sir...

And, I love the spaceframe. Gives this idea that they wanted a huge ship, but didn't know what to fill it up with :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: voidSkipper on July 17, 2009, 07:52:54 am
I just jizzed a little.

In my pants.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 17, 2009, 10:18:59 am
Wow great work Galemp  :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 17, 2009, 11:31:26 am
I didn't jizz but i'm still inspired by the detail amounts, to build on my modelling ability.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Black Wolf on July 17, 2009, 12:51:25 pm
Very cool. UVing and texturing will almost certainly kill you, but it's so pretty :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Zacam on July 17, 2009, 02:10:36 pm
Hell, I'll take it in-game WITHOUT textures, it just that frikken awesome. We will write a colossus shader to color it and call it good.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 17, 2009, 02:27:24 pm
Wow.

Sometimes I forget how big the Colossus really is.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-scale1.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on July 17, 2009, 04:25:24 pm
Sexy.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on July 17, 2009, 06:17:05 pm
Lol random multi-story windows.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on July 17, 2009, 06:20:47 pm
Positive proof that the Colly is at least partially crewed by Zentraedi?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on July 27, 2009, 04:52:34 am
Hello, long time lurker, immensely grateful to your community for providing me with awesomeness for the past months since I downloaded the latest builds (I was a fan of FS2 when it came out, never had played a better game since).

And what more awesomeness do I witness here? But I should ask Galemp two things. First, is this finished (apart from the fighter bay, which is outsourced as I see), and second how many polys does it have? A million? Isn't that too much?!?

I mean the Hattie has 26k and you criticized the man because he spent 10k on the engines (which I agree, it is slightly abusive!), but man, it seems you're not modeling the Colly to put it ingame, but to make awesome movie shots!! The model is hollywood quality...

So I just wanted to post my drooling at the model as well as my n00by concern... keep up the good work! :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on July 27, 2009, 08:39:58 am
Luis (outro tuga? :D ) don't fret, Galemp has been doing this for years, he knows where to put detail and whatnot, what to transform in detail boxes and etc. The model will end up pretty good and fast in-game I'm sure :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on July 27, 2009, 08:48:12 am
(sim, tuga aqui  :D)

Yeah, I know Galemp is da masta here, I'm not really "worried", more amazed at the modelling process, something that a newbie like me wouldn't dare to go into.

I'd really like to contribute with something, so I'm trying to learn about TrueSpace (never heard of it, but from the looks of the manual pdfs, seems like too easy compared with 3ds, so I'll give it a try), and understand these strange formats to me (dds and the likes). I've been modelling and texturing things, but more on the architecture front, so this would be something of a new territory to me. I don't promise anything, but I'll see if I can deal with the .pofs and the .cobs and etc., and see if I can make a new Rakshasa, before any pro tries to do so!

But this is the Colly thread, sorry about the OT.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 27, 2009, 11:46:58 am
Don't learn TrueSpace, please. It's a garbage program, and learning Blender is slightly harder but worth it. TrueSpace makes simple tasks complicated.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on July 27, 2009, 01:48:17 pm
Don't learn TrueSpace, please. It's a garbage program, and learning Blender is slightly harder but worth it. TrueSpace makes simple tasks complicated.

Wish someone else had said that previously. I tried to convert pofs to cobs and Truespace just messed up with the mesh, and the program with 1k faces is slower than max with a gazillion faces on screen. Crap program, I'm sure. I'll post later on a question in the right thread on how the best procedure is to export a pof to a 3ds file or a skp file (sketch up seems straightforward to me).

I'll see about Blender. Is there any exporter to Blender? I don't like the prospect of hacking through filetypes A to B to C to D ... to eventually arrive in Z, with all the errors involved in the process... Well like I said, I need to ask these noobish questions in the right forum.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: NathanP on July 27, 2009, 01:50:57 pm
Epic  - truly epic :nod:

1 question - the original colly was supposed to have 80 odd turrets - will there ever be a version with these extra turrets put back??
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on July 27, 2009, 01:57:47 pm
Possibly balance / limitation issues with Retail.
Make that version though and I could make it unstoppable with BSG-style firerate and speed weapon tables. ;7

Flying through the barrage of blobs in a fighter is fun.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Flaser on July 27, 2009, 05:02:45 pm
Don't learn TrueSpace, please. It's a garbage program, and learning Blender is slightly harder but worth it. TrueSpace makes simple tasks complicated.

Wish someone else had said that previously. I tried to convert pofs to cobs and Truespace just messed up with the mesh, and the program with 1k faces is slower than max with a gazillion faces on screen. Crap program, I'm sure. I'll post later on a question in the right thread on how the best procedure is to export a pof to a 3ds file or a skp file (sketch up seems straightforward to me).

I'll see about Blender. Is there any exporter to Blender? I don't like the prospect of hacking through filetypes A to B to C to D ... to eventually arrive in Z, with all the errors involved in the process... Well like I said, I need to ask these noobish questions in the right forum.

The community has been pressing for DAE support for quite a while, so converison should look like this:

Blender --> Save as DAE
PCS2 --> Open DAE --> Set up game model --> Save as POF (for game use)/Save as PMF (for further PCS editing).
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 27, 2009, 08:30:29 pm
PCS2 is the program used to add firepoints and the like to FS2 ships.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on July 28, 2009, 04:21:01 am
Wish someone else had said that previously. I tried to convert pofs to cobs and Truespace just messed up with the mesh, and the program with 1k faces is slower than max with a gazillion faces on screen. Crap program, I'm sure. I'll post later on a question in the right thread on how the best procedure is to export a pof to a 3ds file or a skp file (sketch up seems straightforward to me).

I'll see about Blender. Is there any exporter to Blender? I don't like the prospect of hacking through filetypes A to B to C to D ... to eventually arrive in Z, with all the errors involved in the process... Well like I said, I need to ask these noobish questions in the right forum.

Don't fret about the converstion just yet. I'd focus on the modelling\texturing aspect for now. You'll be able to convert stuff flawlessly with collada.

Also, I recomment Max. Harder to learn at first, but in the end its a ferrari :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on July 28, 2009, 05:09:27 am
Don't fret about the converstion just yet. I'd focus on the modelling\texturing aspect for now. You'll be able to convert stuff flawlessly with collada.

It's just that I have little spare time, and I really wanted to skip the first modelling part and start with a "Rakshasa template" on the go, that is, start with the original mesh. No can do, it seems. Oh well.

Quote
Also, I recomment Max. Harder to learn at first, but in the end its a ferrari :D
It's more a question about visual confusion. Never appreciated modelling in 3Ds, in sketch up it seems simpler (and I like to learn new programs as well), although I've been messing with 3DS since '96 (!!), in its DOS version 4.0 (not to confuse with MAX 4.0) :D

But it seems that yes, I'll probably go by your advise and stick with max...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 29, 2009, 01:25:07 am
Greetings Luis. I'm glad to see you have an architectural background as well. What CAD programs have you used so far? AutoCAD? SketchUp? REVIT? If you've been using 3DS Max for that long, there's an exporter for Max which I've used for years. If you're looking to get started in Blender, perhaps we could arrange a date and time for lessons over IRC.

Raven's comment is, I believe, directed towards your comments on the Colossus, and not your own work on the Rakshasa (i.e. don't fret about converting the Colossus just yet, focus on the modeling/texturing of it.)

I agree that this is going to be one of the heaviest models in the engine, probably the heaviest of all, but remember that there will only ever be one in the mission at a time. All the greebles you've seen so far are going to be either detail-boxed or normal mapped. Further, the whole thing will be UV-mapped, and so will actually use less memory than the existing Hecate or Orion models.

Aside from the aforementioned hangar, I've finalized the geometry. Currently I'm working on the slow, painstaking process of unwrapping the model for texturing. This process alone can take over a year, as Vasudan Admiral's Hades can attest to. Once it's unwrapped, one party can paint the texture while another prepares it for conversion into the game. By the time this actually makes it into the Media VPs, we will be at 3.6.11 and you'll probably have an upgraded computer. :)

The Colossus does have over 80 weapon turrets; look over its table entry to see what they are.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on July 29, 2009, 05:15:03 am
Greetings Luis. I'm glad to see you have an architectural background as well. What CAD programs have you used so far? AutoCAD? SketchUp? REVIT? If you've been using 3DS Max for that long, there's an exporter for Max which I've used for years. If you're looking to get started in Blender, perhaps we could arrange a date and time for lessons over IRC.

I'd appreciate that exporter immensely, where can I find it? I already started modelling in 3DSMax on my own though, and I feel rusty as hell (though I understand the basics of it and am fast to learn), but I'll post a pic in a different thread so I can have feedback on whether I should continue or not.

I've used max only in University, and only after I had modeled everything in autocad, which is not friendly to organic meshes as max is. I now use Archicad which is similar to revit. It's very intuitive, but unfortunately, it adores ortogonal things too much as well. Then I use Art Lantis to render the models, which is also very intuitive - (so I'm rusty at more mathematical tools, like max, but I'll get over it).


In relation to Collossus, well I'm looking forward to see that beauty UV mapped (another hellish enterprise I'm sure !! )  :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 29, 2009, 06:32:12 am
Also, I recomment Max. Harder to learn at first, but in the end its a ferrari :D
I found Max immensely easy to learn, far more than Blender. Only problem is, my trial ran out and I have not 600$.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on July 29, 2009, 10:22:11 am

Raven's comment is, I believe, directed towards your comments on the Colossus, and not your own work on the Rakshasa (i.e. don't fret about converting the Colossus just yet, focus on the modeling/texturing of it.)


Actually was directed towards his choice of learning Blender just because it has a perceived better support for converstion. I belong to the school of "learn the creative stuff first, good 3d package second, and the technical conversion stuff last" :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Lyk on July 30, 2009, 02:12:06 am
Oh. My. God the Colossus is so sexy, beatiful details

Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on August 02, 2009, 01:56:32 pm
Wow.

Sometimes I forget how big the Colossus really is.

(http://freespaceport.googlepages.com/colossus-scale1.jpg)

I just noticed this after deciding to run through the thread again to get a sense of what this thing looked like again. The rear "leg" that contains the girders on either side of it has a sharp cut-away from the front side. That might have been a stylistic choice, but I'm not sure if it looks good. It kind of makes the thing feel a little flimsier than it should.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Syder on November 19, 2009, 01:38:26 pm
Well I like the overall look but what I don't buy is that space frame. Any military vehicle engineer will say that leaving vital parts of a superstructure without the armour is a total nonsense.

Frames are always designed to make the structure tougher without losing any vital kilograms. They will withstand stress from acceleration, gravitation, hard manoeuvring etc. but no one designs them to withstand direct weapons fire that's why they are covered with armour plating. I've never seen a modern tank with part of its frame or structure uncovered/unprotected.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on November 19, 2009, 02:29:41 pm
Well I like the overall look but what I don't buy is that space frame. Any military vehicle engineer will say that leaving vital parts of a superstructure without the armour is a total nonsense.
It's called "Rule of Cool" :P Besides, the bracing also appears on the :v: textures.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Syder on November 19, 2009, 03:12:01 pm
And where is the "Rule of Sense" or "Rule of Functionality" then? :)  
There are frame like looking pieces in the original model, but they are solid and remind me of armour ribs - for better protection (the "neck" is the thinnest vital part of the ship) not of a hollow structure that will crack in half after the first meteor hit.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on November 19, 2009, 04:14:04 pm
Well I like the overall look but what I don't buy is that space frame. Any military vehicle engineer will say that leaving vital parts of a superstructure without the armour is a total nonsense.

Frames are always designed to make the structure tougher without losing any vital kilograms. They will withstand stress from acceleration, gravitation, hard manoeuvring etc. but no one designs them to withstand direct weapons fire that's why they are covered with armour plating. I've never seen a modern tank with part of its frame or structure uncovered/unprotected.
Eh, just think of them as construction supports that were never removed.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on January 05, 2010, 01:13:07 pm
Eh, just think of them as construction supports that were never removed.

Space scaffolding.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Ziame on January 06, 2010, 10:58:49 am
Necro kinda, Sigtau :)


Any progress on the water gun, tho?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on January 06, 2010, 02:11:33 pm
UV mapping and painting was overwhelming. I don't have skills in the same tier as VasudanAdmiral or RagingLoli, which is what this model really deserves.

For now I'm practicing on smaller models: I've unwrapped the Cheops (Vasudan Asteroid Base) and I've been painting that, and I'm also planning on unwrapping the Imhotep (Vasudan science cruiser) and perhaps the Mjolnir as well.

Then maybe I'll take a shot at the Colossus.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on January 06, 2010, 02:16:03 pm
UV mapping and painting was overwhelming. I don't have skills in the same tier as VasudanAdmiral or RagingLoli, which is what this model really deserves.

For now I'm practicing on smaller models: I've unwrapped the Cheops (Vasudan Asteroid Base) and I've been painting that, and I'm also planning on unwrapping the Imhotep (Vasudan science cruiser) and perhaps the Mjolnir as well.

Then maybe I'll take a shot at the Colossus.

UV mapping that... huge work indeed, maybe you can share some base textures and let some of the small details to other people, like a community project but with a more selected crew, and small amounts of work for everyone, so you don't get stuck for so long waiting for the results.

Just a thought...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 06, 2010, 04:52:06 pm
For now I'm practicing on smaller models: I've unwrapped the Cheops (Vasudan Asteroid Base) and I've been painting that, and I'm also planning on unwrapping the Imhotep (Vasudan science cruiser) and perhaps the Mjolnir as well.

Then maybe I'll take a shot at the Colossus.

I can try doing the new HTL Ravana in a jolt so you can practice, I'm always happy to give you means to improve :D

EDIT: or you might want to join the BWO team, there's some capital ships that need UVmapping and texturing as well, nd we really don't have a problem if you use them for practice :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on January 06, 2010, 05:01:54 pm
yessssss
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 06, 2010, 05:12:20 pm
yessssss

In response to whaaaaat? :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Thaeris on January 06, 2010, 06:52:35 pm
OFF TOPIC:

...Will FS Port 3.2 have an HTL Imhotep model? That would be quite nice...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on January 06, 2010, 09:14:01 pm
I'm looking at enhancing the Cheops and the Imhotep, yes--they needed to be unwrapped anyway so I figured I'd upgrade them anyway.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Thaeris on January 07, 2010, 01:48:37 am
Sounds great.  :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on January 07, 2010, 11:54:58 am
maybe the anti-tiling propaganda should be toned down, cap-ships are comparable to level geometry more so than character models, and level geometry frequently makes use of tiled textures.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on January 07, 2010, 12:02:39 pm
But there's a lot you can't do with tile-textured ships.  AO baking comes to mind.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 07, 2010, 12:26:15 pm
You cannot easly reskin an UVMapped ship though.
I will be happy with either route for Colossus, UVMap will allow greater detail and tile maps will allow me to reskin it and use in my mod as a dreadnought.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on January 07, 2010, 12:35:38 pm
I'd rather have a single great UVMap than a set of equally ugly tile-mapped skins, I must confess.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 07, 2010, 12:59:54 pm
maybe the anti-tiling propaganda should be toned down, cap-ships are comparable to level geometry more so than character models, and level geometry frequently makes use of tiled textures.

Bob has a good point there. It is a matter of good use of the tiles, and of course you can mix the techniques. The later might be the best approach, even design wise, because you get a mix of repetition and uniqueness in the textures (repetition is a good way to hint scale)

See the Rakshasa for a good example of good use of tiled textures. Alternatively, see the Cain\Lilith for a good example of a mix.

But there's a lot you can't do with tile-textured ships.  AO baking comes to mind.

That's almost a non issue. I have no idea what the coders have in mind, but I'd wager that sooner or later FSO will have either dynamic AO, or stencil shadows. Any of them take care of the problem :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on January 07, 2010, 01:21:00 pm
Dynamic AO is very cpu intensive, and baked AO takes no processing time.  Plus, that's only one example, I'm sure there's a few more the unwrapping supporters know of.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: bkd86 on January 07, 2010, 03:44:15 pm
You cannot easly reskin an UVMapped ship though.

Yes you can if you know what your doing. How else to you think all the FPS mods "reskin" models sure isn't with tiled textures.  If you can create a tileable texture you can skin/paint a UV mapped anything. Baked AO is then really simple to add.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on January 07, 2010, 04:08:47 pm
Maybe by the Time Galemp feels he's ready for this, FS will support multiple texture channels :nervous:
Like that, you could have AO-baked and tilemapped ships.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on January 07, 2010, 04:45:02 pm
Dynamic AO is very cpu intensive, and baked AO takes no processing time.  Plus, that's only one example, I'm sure there's a few more the unwrapping supporters know of.

vertex colors could be used to approximate it.

a lot of the anti-tile rhetoric I've seen over the last few years is starting to smell like golden hammer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hammer)]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 07, 2010, 04:47:51 pm
You cannot easly reskin an UVMapped ship though.

Yes you can if you know what your doing. How else to you think all the FPS mods "reskin" models sure isn't with tiled textures.  If you can create a tileable texture you can skin/paint a UV mapped anything. Baked AO is then really simple to add.
I know, but I meant easy retexturing, which can be done using only PCS2.
UVMapped ships can be retextured, but it takes much more time and is more difficult to do than just swapping the textures in PCS2.
Also, most of Hi-res textures from mediavps are in .DDS, which makes them not very handy for editing.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 07, 2010, 06:04:35 pm
Dynamic AO is very cpu intensive, and baked AO takes no processing time.  Plus, that's only one example, I'm sure there's a few more the unwrapping supporters know of.

That's the thing, I'm not a "supporter" of either, and honestly I think "supporting" one or the other is at least foolhardy. I recognize (or try to) each strengths and weaknesses, and try to come up with solutions with what is given to me, and with the knowledge I have (that isn't much in terms of coding stuff, but is quite a lot in terms of art for games and movies).

For instance, on the case of the Colossus, I have no doubt that the best approach would be the hybrid one (tiles and UVmaps). a big ship like that needs as much repetition (best achieved with tiles, probably even from a memory standpoint, if well done) as it needs unique areas in terms of texture. Also, in such a big ship, many of the recesses\corners don't need visible AO due to relations of scale.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on January 07, 2010, 11:30:33 pm
I haven't seen a tilemapped ship in FSO that looks as good as a pretty good unwrapped ship, not to mention the amazing unwrapped ships.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 08, 2010, 04:51:04 am
Rakshasa, Mentu, Aten... Perhaps you can't see past their low poly count, and see the value in a good tiling job, but I do :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 08, 2010, 06:04:45 am
The Aten's been HTL'ed for a while. :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 08, 2010, 06:34:35 am
I know, was refering to the vanilla one, for argument's sake :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on January 08, 2010, 04:22:06 pm
Which has... two tiled textures, and the rest on a UV.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 08, 2010, 04:35:17 pm
Which proves my point, a hybrid isn't a bad approach :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on January 08, 2010, 04:45:07 pm
That may be it then, like I said they don't look as good as any of the better fully unwrapped ships out there.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Water on January 08, 2010, 04:57:35 pm
vertex colors could be used to approximate it.

a lot of the anti-tile rhetoric I've seen over the last few years is starting to smell like golden hammer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hammer)]
I agree, vertex colouring can work well. Used it in a walk through with a large amount of structural steel. 48k worth of tri. Used tiled textures in other parts because I could use a second uv channel texture for lighting.

It's not that tiled textures are bad. It's really all about lighting.  A large tiled ship can look ok from a distance but up close it's just a bunch of polys on screen with no depth. Add in AO lighting and it's like a first person shooter, you can fly over a cap ship like a landscape. The difference isn't small.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 08, 2010, 05:17:56 pm
Which proves my point, a hybrid isn't a bad approach :P
Haven't your recent posts only been about tiled textures though? :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2010, 05:26:22 pm
Which proves my point, a hybrid isn't a bad approach :P
Haven't your recent posts only been about tiled textures though? :P

No. Reread his posts.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 08, 2010, 05:33:54 pm
Eh they're all about hybrid posts with a supportive defense to tiled ships.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2010, 05:35:32 pm
Better!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 08, 2010, 06:27:55 pm
I'm a fan of hybrid all the way. To be honest as long as UV space and texture detailing are as efficient as possible. A destroyer could theoretically be textured with one 1024 base texture.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 08, 2010, 07:39:26 pm
Also, an UVMap would have to be gargantuan to look good on a 6Km ship.
Hybrid may be a way to go, because with less area to place UVMap on, it would allow it to have lower resolution.
Tilemaps will do the work on large, flat surfaces, where no special effects are needed.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 08, 2010, 07:43:46 pm
:yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 09, 2010, 07:42:31 am
That may be it then, like I said they don't look as good as any of the better fully unwrapped ships out there.

Then all that blurriness when I get up close must be my eyes playing tricks on me...

Also, an UVMap would have to be gargantuan to look good on a 6Km ship.
Hybrid may be a way to go, because with less area to place UVMap on, it would allow it to have lower resolution.
Tilemaps will do the work on large, flat surfaces, where no special effects are needed.

Ditto.

It's not that tiled textures are bad. It's really all about lighting.  A large tiled ship can look ok from a distance but up close it's just a bunch of polys on screen with no depth. Add in AO lighting and it's like a first person shooter, you can fly over a cap ship like a landscape. The difference isn't small.

Yeah the problem is lightning most of the time. However, form also comes into equation. And I know that at least the lightning issues can be solved via coding, sooner or later (real-time AO, projected shadows, that vertex color solution).

Anything bigger than a corvette would either need to have multiple UVmapped textures, or have the texture's res upped dramatically, in order to hold up at close range.

And then of course there's the matter of "context" to consider. Perhaps things can be made in such a way in that you re-utilize the same tiles in most ships (obviously each ship would have its unique UV textures as well, but instead of each ship having for instance 2 UVmapped big textures, it would have only 1+1 or 2 tiles), making the game run smoother when there's multiple ships in mission.

Haven't your recent posts only been about tiled textures though? :P

For anyone else who may be having compreension or reading problems, I'll repeat:
Again, I'm not a supporter of any approach. I see the value, strengths and weaknesses on both of them, and try to use them accordingly...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on January 09, 2010, 12:01:27 pm
I'd like to point out three high-poly capital ships: the Hecate uses tile maps, the Ravana uses a hybrid of tiles and UVs, and the new Hatshepsut uses UVs only.

Which looks best?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 09, 2010, 12:12:42 pm
I'd also like to point out that each of those ships belong to a different species and had their models made in rather large gaps between time.

However between the three the Hatsheput looks the best, but that's mostly just because of the fact that it's newer than the Hecate or Ravana.

If the Colossus was textured already and the Sathanas was HTL'ed with textures as well then such a comparison could be debated, but even then each species has a different appearance so texture styles would still remain different.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on January 09, 2010, 12:19:53 pm
Hatshepsut, no question.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 09, 2010, 04:15:20 pm
Hatshepsut is much newer, plus I'd like to know the resolution of it's texture.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: bkd86 on January 09, 2010, 05:25:37 pm
Well the way around having to use a huge UV is to break it down onto several UVs (I don't know if the engine supports). 4 512k maps would give much better detail than 1 1024 etc.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 09, 2010, 05:32:05 pm
Plus we'll get the best results once the model becomes available so we can experement with lighting.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on January 09, 2010, 05:56:59 pm
Well the way around having to use a huge UV is to break it down onto several UVs (I don't know if the engine supports). 4 512k maps would give much better detail than 1 1024 etc.

The engine definitely supports that! Or, you could use some UV and some tiled! Hmmm, I'm repeating what's already been said, oh my!  :ick:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Enioch on January 09, 2010, 06:22:27 pm
4 512k maps would give much better detail than 1 1024 etc.

4 times 512 squared is 1048576 pixels

and 1024 squared is 1048576 pixels.

So, your total canvas size is the same. 4 512 maps are the same as a 1024 map. And they're a worse option, because there's four of them, which slow the engine down.

The fewer (and thus bigger, but nobody's perfect) your maps are, the better.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on January 09, 2010, 06:47:00 pm
Well the way around having to use a huge UV is to break it down onto several UVs (I don't know if the engine supports). 4 512k maps would give much better detail than 1 1024 etc.
Errr, no that would provide the exact same in-game texture resolution for approximately 1/4 of the performance a single 1024 res map would offer once you factor in glow shine and normal maps. ;)

About the topic at hand personally I think in general UV mapping (assuming good texture painting) yields the highest quality by far for your average destroyer scale or below, and it's the fastest for the game to render and the neatest file-organisation wise. :)

Something the size of the big C however...ugh I dunno. It would benefit so much from AO, but using even several large UVs strikes me as being impractical and still insufficient to provide good close up detail. A hybrid approach might work in some respects but the lack of AO on the tiled bits would mean AO on the UVmapped bits would look pretty out of place, and hence you'd lose one of the big advantages of UVmapping anyway. :\
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 09, 2010, 07:02:05 pm
Whact's AO ambient occlusion? Shadows?
 
I honestly don't know. :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on January 09, 2010, 07:09:06 pm
Whact's AO ambient occlusion? Shadows?
 
I honestly don't know. :)

AO. Stands for Ambient Occlusion. Basically, the more 'sky' you can see from a point on the model, the lighter it is. If no 'sky' is visible (i.e. it's surrounded by opaque stuff, like a fighterbay, or an armpit)... it's dark.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Water on January 09, 2010, 08:14:06 pm
Whact's AO ambient occlusion? Shadows?
 
I honestly don't know. :)
Both are the same model, same uv's, one has a white texture map the other has ambient occlusion added. The ambient occlusion can take from 10 min to several hours to calculate. Once it's done though the model looks slightly better. Think of it as lighting on an overcast day, without strong sunlight or strong shadows.
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee67/waternz/mesh/Fenris-occ.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 09, 2010, 08:22:05 pm
The penny drops now, baking AO is unpossible with tiled textures. So this is yet another map on top of bump, shine and glow?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on January 09, 2010, 08:51:17 pm
I'm no texture person, but I think ambient occlusion is something added to the base diffuse map, not another layer in and of itself.  You can use it when you UV map, because every part of the texture is going to be applied to one specific location, but it doesn't work with tile maps, because one texture segment is used all over the place, and so any shadowing in one location would look completely out-of-place in another.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Water on January 09, 2010, 11:16:05 pm
The penny drops now, baking AO is unpossible with tiled textures. So this is yet another map on top of bump, shine and glow?
Mongoose covered it pretty well. It just gets added to the diffuse map. You would need a second uv layer to do it with tiles. One uv layer for the tiles the other for the light map texture. Tiled textures never went out of use. Some of them can be really hard to spot as they got really good at using them. Some games now have a 2nd uv layer just for the extra lighting map.

For some cool info on tiling try  http://www.amc.ro/ (http://www.amc.ro/) In the Shares section there are some pdf tutorials on creating next gen environments. The tiling is achieved by using polygons, and a single texture map. To make a textured wall five times longer you copy the poly four times. Won't help with the Colossus though.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 10, 2010, 08:34:26 am
I'd like to point out three high-poly capital ships: the Hecate uses tile maps, the Ravana uses a hybrid of tiles and UVs, and the new Hatshepsut uses UVs only.

Which looks best?

That's an unfair comparison. The Hecate and the Ravana were done what? 5 years ago? Neither me (the modeler) nor you (the texturer) knew what we know today, both artistically and technically. In fact, that's why I asked you for their UVed meshes, because I want to get back to them when I get a chance. Also, both you and I know that the Ravana doesn't use an hybrid approach as it could have... the only part that uses UV is the triangle windows. That's what? 5% of its surface?

But since you asked which one looked better, take a look at the attached image. Atleast the Ravana and Hecate don't suffer from all that artifacting, not to mention bluriness in some parts. And thats not as close as we will be able to get on an Hatshepsut... So yeah, even without baked AO and other fancy stuff, the Hecate and Ravana do still look better in my eyes. And I'm fairly sure most people will think the same, once they get the chance to get close and personal with it in game.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 10, 2010, 09:17:29 am
That was the result of someone else messing with the model's smoothing, the textures are not really that borked and the Hatshesput's corners are not that rounded out.

Sub polygon displacement. more of a test how it'd work out :p



also, it managed to crap out one of my pc's...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on January 10, 2010, 09:37:41 am
I don't actually like the Ravana at all. It looks like someone just decided to put a bunch of ugly triangle girders all over it. :doubt:


NOTE: the personal opinion of this member is a load of bollocks and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 10, 2010, 09:48:24 am
Anyone ever look at ragingloli's Photobucket account? ;7
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on January 10, 2010, 09:55:18 am
Link?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 10, 2010, 09:56:28 am
http://s676.photobucket.com/home/lulzifer/index

Unfortunately it also bears some bad news... :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on January 10, 2010, 10:11:57 am
What bad news?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 10, 2010, 10:12:49 am
Defunct, whether or not it's referring to the Colossus's texture work or the rest of the entire project I don't know.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Raven2001 on January 10, 2010, 10:23:32 am
That was the result of someone else messing with the model's smoothing, the textures are not really that borked and the Hatshesput's corners are not that rounded out.

I wasn't aware of that, so apologies on that. However, my point still stands (check attached images, they are from ragingloli's Photobucket account).

I can see surface areas there that could've been done via tile textures (leaving more space in the UVmapped chuncks to do them at a bigger res)


Keep in mind its not my intent to state anything negative regarding ragingloli's skills. On the contrary, he is an heck of a good modeler\texturer if you ask me.


I don't actually like the Ravana at all. It looks like someone just decided to put a bunch of ugly triangle girders all over it. :doubt:


NOTE: the personal opinion of this member is a load of bollocks and shouldn't be taken seriously.

That someone is me then. :D  And I agree, it could look much much better!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: High Max on January 10, 2010, 03:05:57 pm
;-)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 10, 2010, 03:24:00 pm
Alright then.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 10, 2010, 04:38:17 pm
Hattie needs a dust bag and extension cord return button.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Thaeris on January 10, 2010, 08:33:47 pm
And now presenting the GVD HOOOOOOOOOVER...

 :lol:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 25, 2010, 08:23:34 pm
Hey all! I know it's been a long time but I am BACK TO WORK on the Colossus, adding greebles!

Here's a look at some coolant lines and the heat sinks that weren't meant to take that kind of abuse.

Click here. If anyone knows of a free in-line image host, let me know.  (http://imagebin.org/106772)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on July 25, 2010, 08:24:23 pm
Damn it!  I *just* bought these pants!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on July 25, 2010, 08:25:56 pm
Woot!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on July 26, 2010, 12:19:08 am
(http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=106772)

Doesn't that work?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 26, 2010, 12:32:08 am
No, all I can fetch are PHP scripts which don't show up with [ img ] tags.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 26, 2010, 02:09:57 am
Another new shot, of the rear greebles, here. (http://imagebin.org/106801)

And one of only the detail-box greebles, with the main hull subtracted. That enough for you? (http://imagebin.org/106803)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on July 26, 2010, 02:13:19 am
<3

What polycount is it at in the meantime?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 26, 2010, 03:00:10 am
Main hull mesh is at 12,058.
Greebles, turrets, radar dishes, and physical subsystems are at 35,376. They're broken into 7 detail boxes, so no worries.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on July 26, 2010, 03:07:51 am
Galemp, if you need it there's always the FotG ftp.  You can host images there if you'd like.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 26, 2010, 04:32:00 am
RagingLoli's Colossus hangar has been imported. (http://imagebin.org/106808)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on July 26, 2010, 07:55:15 am
uhhh, looking good  :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 26, 2010, 07:58:25 am
How's the hangar detail box coming?
Any good candidates yielded from the topic related?
 
 
Also feel free to sneak us some more previews next time you and your netbook run into me in a London pub :)
I'll bring mine and you can tell me why blender isn't running on ubuntu.
 
I'll have some bits for you too :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on July 26, 2010, 08:25:52 am
Hmm.

Dekker, read Galemps post, right above Rodo's.....
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on July 26, 2010, 11:30:37 am
Nice to see it's not dead :D

Those turrets, while pretty cool looking, look kind of like they were just slapped on instead of being integrated with the hull somehow... would it be too much work to modify the areas around them to make them so they look like they "belong" ?

Maybe that'd just come down to texturing, though...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: AndrewofDoom on July 26, 2010, 11:36:03 am
Ooooooh so nice look. Hate to have to UV map that thing, though. =O
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on July 26, 2010, 01:15:14 pm
Heck, we could leave it in its technicolor LSD state and I'd still be happy.

Well, maybe not actually. It looks great so far!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Liberator on July 26, 2010, 01:56:20 pm
It is looking awesome...I wish I could do as well.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Angelus on July 27, 2010, 10:34:50 am
Ooooooh so nice look. Hate to have to UV map that thing, though. =O

Yeah, UV-ing is, imo, the most headache-giving part.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 27, 2010, 01:21:14 pm
Progress on the UV map. (http://imagebin.org/107004)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on July 27, 2010, 01:26:13 pm
Damn.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on July 27, 2010, 01:43:28 pm
If we're really, really lucky, these will end up in the next Media VPs.

That is, the ones after .12.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on July 27, 2010, 02:00:42 pm
If we're really, really lucky, these will end up in the next Media VPs.

I hope not.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on July 27, 2010, 02:06:20 pm
No, it won't be in the .12 mvps.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on July 27, 2010, 02:13:52 pm
By next I'll just assume he means .14, since .12 seems to be the "current" one already, at least for the in-crowd >.>
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on July 27, 2010, 02:18:36 pm
By next I'll just assume he means .14, since .12 seems to be the "current" one already, at least for the in-crowd >.>

Yeah actually, you're right, I should've made that more clear (since I got access to them too).  Edited previous post.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on July 27, 2010, 05:44:52 pm
Meh. Not like model releases in between MVP releases aren't DL'ed and manually added asap anyways.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 27, 2010, 06:08:22 pm
Progress on the UV map. (http://imagebin.org/107004)
Now that's one HELL of a chessboard.  :lol:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on July 27, 2010, 06:09:35 pm
Progress on the UV map. (http://imagebin.org/107004)
Now that's one HELL of a chessboard.  :lol:

Rook to W48!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 27, 2010, 06:12:27 pm
>Rook was destroyed by beam from NTCv Hawkwood.<
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on July 27, 2010, 06:54:35 pm
And the W48 detonated prematurely
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on July 28, 2010, 11:57:12 am
Progress on the UV map. (http://imagebin.org/107004)

how many pixels are in each of those squares?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on July 28, 2010, 03:28:22 pm
Oh, I'm just mapping the clusters one at a time right now, making sure they have the same scale and aren't distorted. Once the whole thing is unwrapped I'll arrange the clusters on an actual usable UV map.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on August 04, 2010, 06:08:35 pm
... ... ... Progress?  :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on August 04, 2010, 06:27:19 pm
Dots. Use less of them.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Angelus on August 04, 2010, 07:01:39 pm
you know, he made some points :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on August 04, 2010, 08:59:58 pm
Sadly, I have a full-time job now, which is cutting into my free time severely. And don't underestimate the Colossus, it's a ***** to map. The head alone requires the same amount of UV mapping and texture work as a decent high-poly capital ship. There's some really complex geometry there.

I also have several other things going on IRL so I can spare maybe one day a week on this. Please be patient, thank you.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 11, 2010, 01:57:02 am
Back to work on this project. UV mapping is now a little over halfway done.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on October 11, 2010, 01:58:15 am
That looks vaguely terrifying.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on October 11, 2010, 06:42:03 am
That looks vaguely terrifying.

This, basically.

Hooray for gun-shaped ships!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on October 11, 2010, 09:31:33 am
Gives a new meaning to the term gunship.

Also, what happened to the minimum font size? That's definitely not size 5 font.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on October 11, 2010, 11:05:41 am
Also, what happened to the minimum font size? That's definitely not size 5 font.

Goob screwed it  :P

EDIT:
no he didn't, but how the heck did Kolgena do that :confused:

ohh... I see

On topic, Galemp you are a frikking Mahatma Gandhi! how can you uv that monster and no having the desire to destroy the entire universe?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on October 11, 2010, 11:24:40 am
Heh, if he's Gandhi, I wonder what that will make Brand after he UVs an ISD for the second  time :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 11, 2010, 12:45:20 pm
On topic, Galemp you are a frikking Mahatma Gandhi! how can you uv that monster and no having the desire to destroy the entire universe?

I have to compete with VA's high-poly Hades and beat him to a finished POF. :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on October 11, 2010, 10:10:27 pm
a competition? huhu..interesting, what's at stake?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on October 11, 2010, 10:19:37 pm
a competition? huhu..interesting, what's at stake?
Something...Colossal./me puts on sunglasses.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on October 11, 2010, 10:34:10 pm
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 12, 2010, 06:34:07 am
/me fires his LRABeam.

(http://v4belg.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pV9UWeuAlNfIjKrKjntyNYDtIozgzX0sHg_V_edytfMuh-DUCjmeiuUwHkeWE3UwlWupGOvQsfk4Vpo8864D7HA/LRAYeah.png)

I have to compete with VA's high-poly Hades and beat him to a finished POF. :)

You realise that the Colossus is quite a lot larger and longer than the Hades, right? :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on October 12, 2010, 07:25:09 am
Model size != Model complexity
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 12, 2010, 07:39:09 am
[morpheus]Do you believe that the Colossus being larger or longer has anything to do with the polycount in this place?[/morpheus]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on October 13, 2010, 05:44:16 am
I have to compete with VA's high-poly Hades and beat him to a finished POF. :)
Oi! :p I've been busy! :p

(Seriously, we got given more than 18 medium to massive assignments this last month. I've been losing sleep and working on them basically every waking hour. It sucks. :( )
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 15, 2010, 05:20:39 pm
Heads up everyone, the main hull UV map is finally done, and at a decent texel ratio too. Next up is mapping the greebles!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on October 16, 2010, 12:19:27 am
Wewt!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on October 16, 2010, 01:01:33 am
That was fast!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on October 16, 2010, 06:17:53 am
Hell yeah! :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on October 16, 2010, 06:43:38 am
hurray
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 16, 2010, 11:00:32 am
A taste of things to come...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on October 16, 2010, 11:19:51 am
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaammmn.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on October 16, 2010, 01:43:06 pm
I can see the zentradi windows!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on October 16, 2010, 08:47:52 pm
I'm no mapper, but that looks like something of a nightmare to work on.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on October 17, 2010, 01:50:22 am
Can we have a shot of the ship with that bake?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on October 17, 2010, 07:36:53 am
I spy ambient occlusion.  :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on October 17, 2010, 10:24:05 am
I spy ambient occlusion.  :nod:

So do I. The file is called MainHullAOgreebled.png :P I jest.

I would also like to see regular update screenshots. Could you keep them coming at at least the current rate please? :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on October 17, 2010, 10:26:56 am
I would also like to see regular update screenshots. Could you keep them coming at at least the current rate please? :D

This, basically.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 17, 2010, 11:47:44 am
I'll want to do a first pass on the textures before I render out. You see, I have a system for texturing this that shouldn't take too long to do! I also have more work to do on the UV map as I'd like to reduce the amount of wasted space.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: bkd86 on October 18, 2010, 03:32:27 pm
I hope your diffuse is going to be 2048x2048 otherwise your detail won't be good.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on October 18, 2010, 03:48:46 pm
I hope your diffuse is going to be 2048x2048 otherwise your detail won't be good.

Even 2048x2048 might not be sufficient.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on October 18, 2010, 03:57:32 pm
I'm guessing that there will be two versions of this. One 4096^2 map for the advanced mediavps, and a 2048^2 version for non-advanced.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Nighteyes on October 18, 2010, 04:19:54 pm
I'm guessing that there will be two versions of this. One 4096^2 map for the advanced mediavps, and a 2048^2 version for non-advanced.

isn't it better to use two 2048 textures than 1 4096? I recall some cards cant even render correctly 4096 textures...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on October 18, 2010, 04:29:41 pm
Correct, but those are by far in the minority. In the end, it's GalEmps' call
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 18, 2010, 04:38:50 pm
I'll be using 2 2048 maps, one for the hull and one for the greebles, and one 1024 map for the debris.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on October 18, 2010, 04:56:44 pm
2x 2048^2 maps != 1x 4096^2 map :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Zacam on October 18, 2010, 07:58:37 pm
That beats the 17 texture slots taken up by the current Colly, regardless of what their individual sizes are.

I like.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 18, 2010, 11:51:02 pm
The nice thing is that the second 2048 map won't be used at all past LOD0.

Anyway, I've rearranged the UV map to eliminate wasted space, so the texel ratio is approximately 8% higher now. Cheers!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 19, 2010, 12:47:13 am
Yeah, first one who make a ship with only a 4096² texture will be beaten to death with him own skull by me.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on October 19, 2010, 03:16:59 am
Well, it would be cool to have at least the main hull at 4096, for MV_Advanced... Won't it look pretty bad up close with the whole hull on just a 2048 map?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Pottuvoi on October 19, 2010, 06:36:34 am
Well, it would be cool to have at least the main hull at 4096, for MV_Advanced... Won't it look pretty bad up close with the whole hull on just a 2048 map?
Yes.
Also all cards that support shaders can easily render 4096 textures so that's really not a problem. (even 8k is not a problem for anything recent.)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on October 19, 2010, 06:44:01 am
Well, it would be cool to have at least the main hull at 4096, for MV_Advanced... Won't it look pretty bad up close with the whole hull on just a 2048 map?
Yes.
Also all cards that support shaders can easily render 4096 textures so that's really not a problem. (even 8k is not a problem for anything recent.)

Wrong. My card can handle shaders, and is yet limited to 2048^2 maps. And _every_ texture will look bad up close.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: bkd86 on October 19, 2010, 07:28:31 am
I can't remember, so don't flame me, but does the engine support detail textures. That would help up close.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 19, 2010, 07:30:38 am
Each ship can have 4 levels of detail, or LODs. FS2_Open also supports mipmapping.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on October 19, 2010, 07:31:45 am
There are many ways to increase the apparent detail level of a model available to a modeller.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on October 19, 2010, 09:44:32 am
If you detail box it, you could probably have the detail boxes using their own texture space.  Would probably be pretty efficient that way.  I think that's related to what bkd86 meant.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 19, 2010, 09:47:22 am
That's exactly what I'm doing; the massive amounts of detail-boxed greebles will be at a much higher texel ratio than the rest of the hull, as they're mapped to their own texture. Unfortunately, wide swaths of outer armored hull won't be using much, but I've tried to scale their UV islands proportionately.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 20, 2010, 05:25:37 pm
The UV mapped and detail-boxed Colossus is currently undergoing testing internally. It still needs LODs, debris, and final textures, so no public release yet.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Admiral Nelson on October 20, 2010, 05:28:53 pm
A dramatic improvement indeed!   :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on October 20, 2010, 05:40:55 pm
Holy details Batman!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on October 20, 2010, 05:46:15 pm
Awesome, can't wait for public release.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on October 20, 2010, 06:04:57 pm
I just shat myself.  Now we need an HTL of the Sathanas (and the final completion of the Hades)... and trust me, that will be a glorious day.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on October 20, 2010, 07:00:27 pm
I just shat myself.  Now we need an HTL of the Sathanas (and the final completion of the Hades)... and trust me, that will be a glorious day.

 :nervous:   ;7


 :pimp:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 20, 2010, 07:29:19 pm
*awesomeness*
[farnsworth]Oh, my... yesss.[/farnsworth]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 20, 2010, 07:29:36 pm
The red has to go. Please? I thought it was some kind of error at first.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on October 20, 2010, 07:45:51 pm
I thought that was just reflecting red nubela. At least I hope.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 20, 2010, 07:50:36 pm
I don't think so. I love the rest of it but I'm going to be a total drama whore about that red.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on October 20, 2010, 07:55:57 pm
But then I realized that there was no red nebulae in that screenshot, its only in the previous one.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on October 20, 2010, 07:57:40 pm
Talk about making that poor typhon look like ass.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on October 20, 2010, 08:18:34 pm
That red is indeed part of the texture, and I agree, it does need to go.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on October 20, 2010, 09:39:13 pm
Go?  Maybe.  Toned down a smidge?  Almost definitely.  I kind of like the effect in the second pic, but in the first it blurs together and just looks like red smudge, as if some night walker got a little sloppy with the Collie.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Redstreblo on October 20, 2010, 09:42:41 pm
That part of the Colossus is supposed to be the "heat sinks" of the ship. That is why the texture is red, because of the heat radiating from it. I agree that the red should be toned down and appear brighter when the Colossus is fighting the Sath (they did mention that they were going to melt their heat sinks right?)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 20, 2010, 09:49:58 pm
That part of the Colossus is supposed to be the "heat sinks" of the ship. That is why the texture is red, because of the heat radiating from it.

Please don't bring science into this; in space those are basically useless as heat sinks.

Quote
I agree that the red should be toned down and appear brighter when the Colossus is fighting the Sath (they did mention that they were going to melt their heat sinks right?)

The heat sinks are probably internal. It makes not much sense to use a solid static heatsink, they need to use something liquid they can vent or at least recirculate (some kind of slurry.

Most importantly, looking good comes way before anything else, and they completely break up the ship's color scheme. They're like clown cheeks.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Sushi on October 20, 2010, 10:06:56 pm
I'd like to see more angles on the red bits before I pass judgment. Definitely looking awesome overall, though!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on October 20, 2010, 11:03:49 pm
well I like the red, it should be toned down so it doesn't scream I'M HERE LOOK AT ME!, but it's definitely better than having another green or yellowish bit of hull, that color just breaks the monotony of the hole model.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on October 20, 2010, 11:17:57 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/waitwat1.png)
So... why are there Falcons on the Colossus? :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aurora Paradox on October 20, 2010, 11:36:59 pm
That is quite an epic improvement.  I second the motion for removing the red.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on October 20, 2010, 11:42:16 pm
Why does hades get the model.

Also, what's with the huge contrast in texture detail?
I don't think the "plan" is quite working at this angle.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on October 20, 2010, 11:44:12 pm
That is quite an epic improvement.  I second the motion for removing the red.
uh no, that's a different part of the model. :>

Should have specified such, sorry.

Why does hades get the model.
I'm in the cool kid's club 8D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: rscaper1070 on October 21, 2010, 12:02:34 am
Quote
So... why are there Falcons on the Colossus?

They're waiting to float away with the garbage.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on October 21, 2010, 12:27:12 am
Question: I'm not seeing much (if any) AO. Is it that you just haven't baked them over the diffuse yet, or are they supposed to be that subtle?
Anyways, I'm totally getting a Terran-Vasudan joint engineering vibe from it. It's amazing.

(Also, I get the impression that the ship would look a lot better with much higher AF :P, since those textures seem a lot blurrier at oblique angles than they should be)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on October 21, 2010, 01:00:35 am
Those textures are only 2048^2 for the entire main hull, though the greebles do get a separate map. And you can't tell there's AO because most of the shots are from weird angles or focused on small surfaces, such as the falconbay.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Liberator on October 21, 2010, 02:44:34 am
I disagree about the red.

It sets out that portion of the ship and draws the eye to it.  If anything, there should be more detail there and honestly, I don't know what colored I'd make it.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: T-LoW on October 21, 2010, 03:18:05 am
I just shat myself.  Now we need an HTL of the Sathanas (and the final completion of the Hades)... and trust me, that will be a glorious day.

 :nervous:   ;7


 :pimp:

I'm about to cum all over this post :shaking:

mjn is hiding something... big I hope :nervous:


BTT:

I want a baby from that Colossus :eek2:

EDIT:

Oh and I quite like the red reflection/emition :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on October 21, 2010, 05:57:34 am
Why does hades get the model.
He got access to the FSU SVN because he glowpointed the Faustus and Fenris/Leviathan (maybe a few other ships too). He did good work on the Fenris/Leviathan, made that old, tired model look refreshed.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on October 21, 2010, 01:55:35 pm
Talk about making that poor typhon look like ass.
That should change at some point.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 21, 2010, 02:10:24 pm
I disagree about the red.

It sets out that portion of the ship and draws the eye to it.  If anything, there should be more detail there and honestly, I don't know what colored I'd make it.

This is exactly what's wrong with it. The Colossus is not a clown, it is a warship. It needs to avoid drawing the eye to a particular section like that, it's hideous, and it detracts from what's otherwise a brilliant model. I honestly thought it was a rendering error.

You can't even plead 'heat sink', it doesn't look anything like a glowing red radiator. To pull off that kind of look you'd need graphical tech our engine can't really manage.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 21, 2010, 02:32:57 pm
I took liberty to do a little test with the glow map, does this appear more suitable?

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4163/colossusdirtynormals1.png)

The detail boxing of the grilles on those "intakes" (or whatever they are) and the detail boxing of the glowmapped section along the flanks are problematic in how they pop up, though. The flanks should at the very least have glowmaps on the same places as where the detail boxed greebles have glow maps, and I think that the grilles could benefit from being made of darker material and, if possible, having the baked red glows on them as well if they are there to stay.

Also, are those elements below the keel of the front section supposed to be detached from the fuselage...? :nervous:


The hangar bay is cool.

(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6351/colliehangarbay.png)


There's a hole in the mesh somewhere under the trussing where the front fuselage is connected to the beam that links it to main fuselage (I basically flew forward from the hangar bay under the superstructure, then turned inward and bang, I was inside the ship.

(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3365/collieholemesh.png)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 21, 2010, 02:46:09 pm
Yeah, that's a big improvement, Herra.

I also think the texture could do a slightly better job of conveying a sense of scale. The elliptical lights are really big. (I know it's not final, hopefully this is constructive.)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Sushi on October 21, 2010, 02:48:11 pm
I'm really liking the look of it. Are those ridges on the red parts modeled, or just normal-mapped? If modeled, I'm worried about nasty aliasing artifact and lighting problems...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on October 21, 2010, 02:59:36 pm
I'm still hoping we lose the red grills. They're not making much sense to me. You don't want ginormous statue of liberty-sized (delicate) fin arrays out where they can be shot to pieces. And they can't claim rule of cool because I don't think they look cool.

Could we replace them with the scattered black/yellow windows texture? Or at least make them grey/black?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 21, 2010, 03:02:54 pm
Yeah, Herra's changes pushed me a little more towards favoring them but frankly it still looks a bit like the Colossus is trying to be the USS Defiant.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on October 21, 2010, 03:58:20 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/screen0005.png)
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/screen0006.png)
This happens whenever subsystems are blown up, and they all seemingly occur at the ass of the ship.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on October 21, 2010, 04:21:35 pm
Isn't the centerpoint on the Colossus in the back?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on October 21, 2010, 05:42:43 pm
Seems like a bounding box problem, Scooby's Midway had similar issues.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: ssmit132 on October 21, 2010, 05:44:22 pm
Maybe there's a vent out the back that expels debris and fire whenever a subsystem is destroyed? :P
The hangar bay is cool.

(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6351/colliehangarbay.png)
Wow. :eek2:

And I don't like the red either. :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Thaeris on October 21, 2010, 09:20:05 pm
Sweet eggs and bacon! That's epic!

That said, if at some point we could turn that into a mainhall... oh man...

 :cool:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 21, 2010, 09:45:23 pm
Sweet eggs and bacon! That's epic!

That said, if at some point we could turn that into a mainhall... oh man...

 :cool:

The Colossus could have it's own campaign... :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellzed on October 21, 2010, 10:36:51 pm
May I suggest making the hangar bay darker (basically black and gray textures), with green lights on empty fighter bays and red lights on full ones, with a big blue lighting (a large line on the rectangle perimeter) around the floor and the top, and some kind of control tower deploying from the top of the hall, and a decal of the ship insigna on the wall ?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Thaeris on October 21, 2010, 11:00:12 pm
This is FS2, not FS1 - the grimdark has subsided to a degree. Furthermore, as the pride of the GTVA, do you think the ship is going to be dingy like so? I think not, good sir! If anything, you may want to brighten it up a little, with the Aquitane mainhall as a prime example.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 21, 2010, 11:10:20 pm
This is FS2, not FS1 - the grimdark has subsided to a degree. Furthermore, as the pride of the GTVA, do you think the ship is going to be dingy like so? I think not, good sir! If anything, you may want to brighten it up a little, with the Aquitane mainhall as a prime example.

It's probably just my lighting settings that are grimdark.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 21, 2010, 11:33:21 pm
This is FS2, not FS1 - the grimdark has expanded to a degree.

fixed
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellzed on October 22, 2010, 12:08:18 am
Sorry for the ugly effects, but here's what I tried to explain : darken textures, but make some shiny green and red points, two glowing blue rectangels (floor and top) and a control tower with spotlights, like in an airport at night.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on October 22, 2010, 12:49:24 am
 :wtf:

The amount of time ANYONE would spend in the hangar is not worth that effort...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Liberator on October 22, 2010, 02:20:41 am
Emotional impact or not, no human is going to spend they're work time in a poorly lit environment if they can help it.  Especially on a starship I can imagine every nook and cranny being illuminated fairly elaborately.  I'm not saying 100,000 lumen floods every 2 feet, but on a ship with couple dozen fusion reactors it shouldn't be a big deal to have decent lighting.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: rscaper1070 on October 22, 2010, 02:53:12 am
I think mjn.mixael was talking about "in game" no one is going to be spending much time in the hanger. I do like the idea of the red and green lights though.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Liberator on October 22, 2010, 03:54:31 am
Oh, yeah.  Don't spend much more time on it because it's tiny.  My point was that "in uni" it would be a fairly well lit room.  Tractor beams or not, I'd like a lot of light when I'm trying to manuver a multi-billion whatever star fighter in a tight space filled with other multi-billion whatever star fighters that are on my side.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on October 22, 2010, 05:26:31 am
Hmm, we could have baked shadows with those floodlights...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on October 22, 2010, 05:35:16 am
This is FS2, not FS1 - the grimdark has expanded to a degree.
fixed
You should have used better tools because you obviously broke it :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Snail on October 22, 2010, 05:53:50 am
This is FS2, not FS1 - the grimdark has expanded to a degree.
fixed
You should have used better tools because you obviously broke it :P
(not this again)

Battuta why are you such a troll


Oh also FS2 had ugly pink nebula and pink lasers
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 22, 2010, 06:49:57 am
This is FS2, not FS1 - the grimdark has expanded to a degree.
fixed
You should have used better tools because you obviously broke it :P

hrm, i admit i do need to consider you an authority on tools
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on October 22, 2010, 07:22:34 am
Wasn't there a rule about flaming other members?

Like, NOT TO?

WTF, Batman?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on October 22, 2010, 07:35:22 am
Ah, the bonds formed in IRC know no bounds.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on October 22, 2010, 07:43:45 am
I like how I got to make a joke about 'tool' meaning 'penis' in this thread and 'member' meaning 'penis' in the other.

But hey man we're totally cool it's just some friendly ribbin' with my fellow broletarian
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on October 22, 2010, 07:45:18 am
Ah, the bonds formed in IRC know no bounds.

They should.

I like how I got to make a joke about 'tool' meaning 'penis' in this thread and 'member' meaning 'penis' in the other.

But hey man we're totally cool it's just some friendly ribbin' with my fellow broletarian

"We were just discussing the specifics of a particular hand-to-hand combat maneuver".

Yeah, whatever. Stow it. What happens on IRC should bloody well stay on IRC.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on October 22, 2010, 11:21:37 am
Sorry for the ugly effects, but here's what I tried to explain : darken textures, but make some shiny green and red points, two glowing blue rectangles (floor and top) and a control tower with spotlights, like in an airport at night.

The fighterbays share a texture, but all that would be very simple to do using glowpoints.

This happens whenever subsystems are blown up, and they all seemingly occur at the ass of the ship.

Yeah, I'm almost positive this is a bounding box issue. See, the subsystems in question have their center set to the ship's center, so the bounding box is correspondingly huge, so the special effect is too. This'll be fixed.

Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Ulala on November 01, 2010, 06:30:33 pm
Looking fantastic as always Galemp. Excited to see the final product.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on November 01, 2010, 11:52:22 pm
LODs and debris are done. I have to make destroyed submodels for the major turrets now. Then, a Release Candidate POF for thorough testing and revision whilst I continue working on the textures.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: CommanderDJ on November 02, 2010, 06:52:23 am
Galemp iz r amazing.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dilmah G on November 02, 2010, 07:06:57 am
LODs and debris are done.
Good job, mate. :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on November 02, 2010, 07:13:11 am
will engines have destroyable submodels as well?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on November 02, 2010, 09:14:43 am
Yes, as will the Weapons and Sensors subsystems.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: CommanderDJ on November 02, 2010, 09:30:10 am
Will the submodels have submodels?

...ignore me. It's 2am over here.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on November 02, 2010, 09:24:05 pm
remember that you have a huge poly budget for the fighter bay, don't skimp on details, feel free to put a few extra textures in there too, so long as they don't show up any where else. it might also be a good idea to use non-lit textures, (give them a name that ends in -amb, (I haven't seen this used in forever it might not still work)) so that the outside world doesn't effect the lighting inside the hangar.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on November 02, 2010, 09:36:54 pm
Code says it should still work.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on November 02, 2010, 10:01:07 pm
remember that you have a huge poly budget for the fighter bay, don't skimp on details, feel free to put a few extra textures in there too, so long as they don't show up any where else. it might also be a good idea to use non-lit textures, (give them a name that ends in -amb, (I haven't seen this used in forever it might not still work)) so that the outside world doesn't affect the lighting inside the hangar.

I've got fully half of the Greebles texture dedicated to the fighterbay, and I'll be copying the diffuse map to the Glowmap to prevent outside lighting from affecting it. I have no plans to put more than three textures on this model. mjn.mixael and Cobra will be providing the textures.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on November 03, 2010, 12:20:05 pm
That sounds promising, Galemp. Keep going. :nod:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: CommanderDJ on November 04, 2010, 12:49:59 am
w00tsauce
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on November 06, 2010, 02:47:42 am
Pushing around some pixels on the textures. You should see some improvements, though with a full UV map the customization is limitless. I'll wait till Cobra's make a Hangar texture for me then put it in the SVN and let some other artists work on it some more.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hellzed on November 06, 2010, 09:56:00 am
Where can i find this SVN server ? Is this a complete mediavps SVN version, or just some few ships ?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: sigtau on November 06, 2010, 10:15:25 am
The MediaVP SVN is not open to the public, only those who heavily contribute (and ask Zacam nicely) get the password and hostname.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on November 06, 2010, 11:38:20 am
It's not "the" password.  The way SVN works is that everyone who has access has a separate account so that commits can be tracked.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on November 07, 2010, 08:43:18 am
It's not "the" password.  The way SVN works is that everyone who has access has a separate account so that commits can be tracked.

I have access to the Blue Planet SVN, so does this mean that if I make an edit to one of the files on my copy of SVN and commit, it will be transferred to everyone else who as access to SVN?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on November 07, 2010, 08:48:01 am
It would, if you had write access to the BP svn. You only have read access, so you can only receive changes, not send them out via svn commit.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Bobboau on November 11, 2010, 06:50:15 pm
I've got fully half of the Greebles texture dedicated to the fighterbay, and I'll be copying the diffuse map to the Glowmap to prevent outside lighting from affecting it. I have no plans to put more than three textures on this model. mjn.mixael and Cobra will be providing the textures.

but the fighter bay will only be drawn when in the fighter bay, you could have half the total ships textures in there and it wouldn't hurt anything.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mars on November 11, 2010, 11:20:37 pm
Do as you wish.
Altough my personal preference is to design warships like they are...you know.. actually built for war?

True, but a game with completely smooth spaceships with no greeble (only idiots would build warships with exposed piping/hardware) is lame. Besides, building the neck with much less mass (we're talking the equivalent of an entire skyscraper's worth of empty volume) means that there's less stress on it when the colossus tries to turn. Otherwise, it may snap in two or something.

Hmmm. I'm wondering if it's possible to get colly-batted in a way that gets you stuck in the girders, so that you bounce/vibrate in the gap before dustifying. Might be funny.

But carry on. It's looking plenty awesome.

Edit: I just realized that this has the potential to look like absolute rubbish because the girders can't cast shadows. Can we fix that?

Perhaps the girders are heatsinks?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on December 01, 2010, 01:02:24 pm
 :bump:

So, what's going on here?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on December 01, 2010, 01:52:24 pm
Aside from all the traveling and planning and cooking and cleaning that goes along with Thanksgiving, I've had a miserable time these past few weeks trying to find a job so I can pay the rent next month. :blah: If I do end up having to cancel my internet service I'll be sure to get this out the door for everyone to use soon.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on December 01, 2010, 03:27:05 pm
*starts "Fund Galemp's Internet so he can finish the Colossus!" emergency fund*
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on December 05, 2010, 11:05:09 pm
After taking a look at the latest version in the SVN, I have some feedback (making it public so others can chip in as well).

First off, the window detail you've added is pretty godawfully ugly, It'd be far better to remove it and make the lighting texture higher-rez, pic:
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/colstuff1.jpg)

Second off, I think that you might need to contact ragingloli try and get hm to finish the textures he was doing for it, as they look better and don't look as if they were tled and turned into a UVMap as your's do (no offense intended at all, your's are pretty decent, just his are better).

pic:
(http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv127/lulzifer/screen1.jpg)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on December 05, 2010, 11:15:41 pm
Yeah well if I had a dime for every awesome model that raginglolo has started but not finished/released, I'd have ... well actually only 30 cents (maybe 35 if you count those Hatshepsut turrets).  But that's not the point.  We're lucky he released the WIP Hatshepsut when he did, because he ain't been seen 'round here since then.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Nohiki on December 05, 2010, 11:17:21 pm
oh gawd, if this is going into MVPs anytime soon i'd have to stop getting the newer ones  :lol: Even 3.6.12 hatshepsut breaks me down to 7 FPS :(
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on December 05, 2010, 11:19:35 pm
Yes... but I wasn't talking about his models, blowfish, just the texture.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: blowfish on December 05, 2010, 11:58:17 pm
Get him to appear first.  Then we'll talk :doubt:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on December 06, 2010, 12:02:27 am
I actually got a private message from him on October the 31st. While that was a while in the past, he hadn't been active for a while before I PMed him and got a reply. He's been very busy lately by 'RL' stuff (presumably college and the likes).
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on December 06, 2010, 12:10:37 am
Well, I'm not the best texture artist... especially on something of this magnitude. Hence the posting of the source files.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 06, 2010, 12:16:10 am
Well, I'm not the best texture artist... especially on something of this magnitude. Hence the posting of the source files.

I'm the same way. (That's what I did with all my wepons, is get them usable) I think you did a great job and its more than usable. But of course someone with ragingloli's talent is going to do a better job. If someone wants to take the model and try to do a better job, go for it. But I just wouldn't count on getting ragingloli's textures.

Like I said in IRC. ragingloli does incredible work, but until it's released, his stuff is just impressive concept art, nothing more.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on December 06, 2010, 12:49:32 am
Oh, BTW Galemp, he collision still seems to be messed up in for the head, and some parts on the body.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Nohiki on December 06, 2010, 10:26:24 am
just a question. Is this one finally a normal ship or is it still a baseball bat? :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on December 06, 2010, 10:29:50 am
Well...a Colossus is a Colossus, so...
It's a high-quality, finely-crafted baseball bat. :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on December 06, 2010, 11:48:09 am
Oh, BTW Galemp, he collision still seems to be messed up in for the head, and some parts on the body.

Yep. Sure is. How about that.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on December 07, 2010, 01:30:23 am
Well...a Colossus is a Colossus, so...
It's a high-quality, finely-crafted baseball bat. :P
A hand-carved Louisville Slugger, as it were.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 07, 2010, 08:30:57 am
It's a really fine design.
 /me runs away very fast from incoming thunder.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Zacam on January 17, 2011, 09:19:57 pm

This should hopefully whet some appetites. A few lines still need refining and I'm only up to maybe 12% of the texture surface done.


(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/Zacam/Colossus%20Normal%20Maps%20WIP/Colossus-Normal-05.png)

(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/Zacam/Colossus%20Normal%20Maps%20WIP/Colossus-Normal-04.png)

(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/Zacam/Colossus%20Normal%20Maps%20WIP/Colossus-Normal-03.png)

(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/Zacam/Colossus%20Normal%20Maps%20WIP/Colossus-Normal-02.png)

(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/Zacam/Colossus%20Normal%20Maps%20WIP/Colossus-Normal-01.png)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Sololop on January 17, 2011, 09:27:58 pm
So shiny! Almost don't want to see it covered in browns and greens  :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on January 17, 2011, 09:37:39 pm
I shall sacrifice 25hs replaying FS to see this one ingame.

And those will be the coolest 25hs I will have wasted in my entire life.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on January 17, 2011, 10:08:21 pm
Grooves seem a little deep.  Considering it's size.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Liberator on January 17, 2011, 10:09:23 pm
Great...now I gotta change my pants....
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on January 17, 2011, 10:18:02 pm
Grooves seem a little deep.  Considering it's size.

Exactly what I was going to say. A person could comfortably sit in one of those trenches and not be tall enough to see above its edges. Still looks really good though.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 17, 2011, 11:13:57 pm
Rule of cool
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: carn1x on January 17, 2011, 11:17:43 pm
Grooves seem a little deep.  Considering it's size.

Exactly what I was going to say. A person could comfortably sit in one of those trenches and not be tall enough to see above its edges. Still looks really good though.

Realism schmealism, this looks cool and anybody that says otherwise is a fart-face.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aurora Paradox on January 17, 2011, 11:19:41 pm
The coolness meter just shot through the roof.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 18, 2011, 01:07:44 am
Poof. Bricks got shat.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Pred the Penguin on January 18, 2011, 04:23:41 am
Grooves seem a little deep.  Considering it's size.

Exactly what I was going to say. A person could comfortably sit in one of those trenches and not be tall enough to see above its edges. Still looks really good though.

Realism schmealism, this looks cool and anybody that says otherwise is a fart-face.
Trenches FTW!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on January 18, 2011, 11:44:56 am
Trench Warfare Redefined.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 18, 2011, 12:08:53 pm
There should be a multiplayer dogfight mission where you get to choose between either a Mara or a Perseus and go toe-to-toe between this Colly and one of the WIP Sathanas juggernauts. Extra points for beam spam.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: GT-Keravnos on March 06, 2011, 06:26:26 pm
Are there any news concerning this?

Does anyone know where "V" got the inspiration for naming that ship?

Was it the famous Colossus from Rhodos,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Rhodes

this,
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2318244.The_Anarchistic_Colossus

or this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Colossus_(1787)

this,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Colossus_(1910)

and this, (what I consider most plausible)
(one of those ships, probably the carrier, launced in 1943)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Colossus

I do hope it wasn't the Anarchistic Colossus depicted in that sci fi book by A.E. Van Vogt, because this would imply an endorsment of Anarchy, in my mind. The very thought that in the future, Anarchy will have become a way of life brings chills down my spine. Even more so, with a computer running things.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Shivan Hunter on March 06, 2011, 06:47:29 pm
The first mission with the big C was named The Sixth Wonder. Take a guess. (Not to mention the near-universal Greek/Roman naming scheme for terran ships).

Also, anarchy ftw.

Also, I don't know exactly where, but there's been quite a bit of improvement since the last post here. You might notice this thread is quite old.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on March 06, 2011, 07:45:43 pm
Yes, Hades posted a pic of the textured colossus a while back, I think it was in the size comparison thread.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on March 07, 2011, 04:24:00 pm
Right, is that finished?
If it only needs testing, could you release a public beta?  :)
This ship is so awesome.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 07, 2011, 04:52:42 pm
Patience young grasshopper!

We have something truly awesome in the works...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on March 07, 2011, 05:29:28 pm
Colossus cutscene maybe?

*Rodo bites it's arms off out of anxiety.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on March 07, 2011, 07:46:35 pm
The Colossus has a fully functioning POF, and it's fully UVd, and it has a decent diffuse map. But many hours of labor are being invested in getting the textures up to par.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Liberator on March 07, 2011, 08:55:27 pm
/me licks his lips in anticipation
/me dies a little inside with the realization that he is beyond rubbish at modeling AND texturing
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on March 07, 2011, 09:03:53 pm
Oh I see, then by all means take your time to make it awesummm :yes:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Sushi on March 07, 2011, 11:43:22 pm
I look forward to High Noon 3.0.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mars on March 07, 2011, 11:48:51 pm
So the Colossus can be useless and still look sexy?  :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 09, 2011, 06:45:18 am
Are there any news concerning this?

Does anyone know where "V" got the inspiration for naming that ship?

Was it the famous Colossus from Rhodos,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Rhodes

this,
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2318244.The_Anarchistic_Colossus

or this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Colossus_(1787)

this,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Colossus_(1910)

and this, (what I consider most plausible)
(one of those ships, probably the carrier, launced in 1943)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Colossus

I do hope it wasn't the Anarchistic Colossus depicted in that sci fi book by A.E. Van Vogt, because this would imply an endorsment of Anarchy, in my mind. The very thought that in the future, Anarchy will have become a way of life brings chills down my spine. Even more so, with a computer running things.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTVA_Colossus#Name_Origin
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SF-Junky on March 10, 2011, 12:59:52 pm
I look so much forward to see this thing ingame. Looks incredibly good. :)

I only hope that you bring out two versions of that ships. One with the centerpoint as [V] positioned it and one with the centepoint placed in the... well, center.  :nervous: :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SkycladGuardian on March 10, 2011, 03:11:45 pm
hm
what would be the difference regarding gameplay?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: headdie on March 10, 2011, 04:07:15 pm
It means the ship will pivot at a different point and it effects a few things like warp in/out placement iirc
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on March 10, 2011, 10:41:16 pm
Just wondering: Any way to fix the gimpy warp-in, where it kind of poofs half of its front into existence?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SkycladGuardian on March 11, 2011, 03:47:30 am
@headdie: I see, thanks :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on March 11, 2011, 04:07:56 am
Just wondering: Any way to fix the gimpy warp-in, where it kind of poofs half of its front into existence?

This too is caused by the centre being off.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SF-Junky on March 11, 2011, 07:03:14 am
As far as I know :v-old: put the centerpoint to the back for only one reason: to make the destruction of Big C in Their Finest Hour more impressive. So I think there is a pretty good reason to bring out two different models. One for the main campaign and one for fan campaign makers. :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 11, 2011, 09:07:18 am
Not saying we will or won't come out with two models.. but why can't the fan campaign makers open up the model and change the centerpoint themselves?

We are FSU, we upgrade Freespace. Our job is not to upgrade or provide assets to every campaign or campaign maker out there.  :doubt:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SkycladGuardian on March 11, 2011, 09:24:02 am
Would it affect the FS2 campaign, if the centerpoint is corrected?
I mean, it's not that the Colossus is doing much, jumping in, destroying stuff, jumping out. There's not much manoeuvering.

On the other hand, I don't know anything about the mission structures in detail  :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on March 11, 2011, 09:34:51 am
The problem is that fixing this is not something we should do for the mediavps. Remember, the MediaVPs are supposed to bring the graphics up to par, not alter gameplay. The Colly being one giant baseball bat of doom is part of that gameplay, and please also remember that the reasons why [v] put the centerpoint where it is are still valid.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SF-Junky on March 11, 2011, 10:18:43 am
Not saying we will or won't come out with two models.. but why can't the fan campaign makers open up the model and change the centerpoint themselves?
I once tried it with the existing Colossus model, but this isn't as easy as you might think. It least for me it didn't work, but I admit that this doesn't necessarily mean anything. ;)

Besides, it was just a suggestion, not a demand.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kolgena on March 11, 2011, 10:49:25 am
Just wondering: Any way to fix the gimpy warp-in, where it kind of poofs half of its front into existence?

This too is caused by the centre being off.

Sounds like this is more of an SCP fix then. Either way, it looks really really bad, and should be fixed soon. (I also wonder what happens if you are in the space occupied by the colossus prior to it poofing into existence...)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: headdie on March 11, 2011, 10:55:56 am
Just wondering: Any way to fix the gimpy warp-in, where it kind of poofs half of its front into existence?

This too is caused by the centre being off.

Sounds like this is more of an SCP fix then. Either way, it looks really really bad, and should be fixed soon. (I also wonder what happens if you are in the space occupied by the colossus prior to it poofing into existence...)

You end up flying inside it, ended inside the NTD Uhuru in kings gambit a few times
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: StargateSpankyHam on April 28, 2011, 03:48:54 pm
 :bump:

How is this coming? It looks too epic to die.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on April 28, 2011, 03:51:07 pm
It's not dead, it's been in game for several months now.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: StargateSpankyHam on April 28, 2011, 05:45:48 pm
 Oh wow - tells you how often I've opened up the Colossus...  :lol:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2011, 05:46:19 pm
Oh wow - tells you how often I've opened up the Colossus...  :lol:

It's in game, but it hasn't been released. It'll be in the 3.6.14 MVPs.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 28, 2011, 09:35:31 pm
It could be in 3.7, even.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2011, 09:36:24 pm
You don't say.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on April 28, 2011, 09:52:18 pm
or maybe 4, cause we decided we had enough of decimals and would much rather just increment one's like sane people.
(or we could just count by revision number like nightlies, which is much better mhm. **** those arbitrary x.x.x designations. I don't like the fact that we'll all be dead before we hit 5, cause hell, as far as I recall, we started at 3, and we're still on 3 after 10 years.)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: StargateSpankyHam on April 28, 2011, 10:03:25 pm
...in game, but not released?

This is confusing.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Droid803 on April 28, 2011, 10:04:26 pm
I know right, FSU has this fascination with keeping our HTL models from us.
They do so in the name of testing, it seems...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on April 28, 2011, 10:05:24 pm
lol!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2011, 10:09:45 pm
...in game, but not released?

This is confusing.

A large team of modelers, texturers, and specialists called the FreeSpace Upgrade Project works together to create, test, and perfect new models for the MediaVPs.

These models are extensively tested in-game to ensure they do not break existing missions, so they can serve as drop-in replacements for the originals.

For this reason, the model is not released until after a period of careful testing and refinement. It's not done until they're sure it's done.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on April 28, 2011, 11:27:54 pm
I think we should wait until 3.14.159.2653, personally.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on April 29, 2011, 07:17:18 am
Also, IIRC, textures are still being worked on. It's an enormous ship that needs very large, high quality normal maps, and they take time to make.
I'd like to see it released for public testing (like Sath) when it's complete. Public beta would most likely speed things up.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rga_Noris on May 02, 2011, 08:27:02 pm
The Sath was released with no known issues and completed maps. While it ma see some changes before the MVP's, tey will be minor bug fixes. To release the colly now would be foolish... No shines or normals. It is not complete enough to release, just enough to test.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on May 03, 2011, 05:48:47 am
I know. As I said, I'd like to see it released when it's complete, I'm aware that textures are still being worked on.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on May 03, 2011, 09:04:42 am
SCREENSHOTS?!? :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on January 19, 2012, 04:29:17 pm
The colossus was already bad ass,  now its ten times more bad ass. THIS IS AWESOME!!!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Sobbsy on January 19, 2012, 09:03:25 pm
Oh you bastard, I saw this thread at the top and thought it might have been released  :lol:

 :banghead:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Cobra on January 19, 2012, 09:35:40 pm
Would be a forgivable bump if he was checking for updates.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: BrotherBryon on January 19, 2012, 10:25:04 pm
Well he hasn't even been a registered member for a full month yet and has already earned himself a custom title, so what do you expect? Can't fault him for his enthusiasm though.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rampage on January 19, 2012, 11:01:43 pm
Well he hasn't even been a registered member for a full month yet and has already earned himself a custom title, so what do you expect? Can't fault him for his enthusiasm though.

I don't think his title is well-deserved, to be honest.  I have spoken to him multiple times via PM, and just to be clear to the Community - - - he's just a kid, and his behavior is related to his age.  He's also not web community savvy.  And think back to when you were kids; how many things you said/done back then do you think stupid of now?  So knowing this, please don't fault him for things he does he will grow out of (hopefully) as he gets older.  Instead give him time to learn and room to make mistakes.

R
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on January 20, 2012, 01:32:25 am
Trust me, we do, and we have.  There are any number of solid members of the community who posted much like that in the not-so-distant past.  The title's no more than a bit of ribbing.  That being said, age or not, seeing some gradual improvement in behavior is always appreciated.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 20, 2012, 08:07:46 am
Not to mention we really haven't seen any news about the Colly recently. Just how long making normal and shine maps can take (going by the old screenshots, that's all what it's been missing)? I'd like to know, what's happening to this awesome ship, what's it's current status?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 20, 2012, 10:33:24 am
Its normal map is extremely complex... in other words, a nightmare.

If you look at the number of lines in the diffuse, and then think about tracing each one, and then consider that you need to cautiously consider how deep each line should be, you become nauseous. If you then actually attempt the task, you likely actually vomit.

That being said, the project isnt dead, and is being worked on. I would hope that we can show something soon.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: The E on January 20, 2012, 10:44:52 am
Not to mention we really haven't seen any news about the Colly recently. Just how long making normal and shine maps can take (going by the old screenshots, that's all what it's been missing)? I'd like to know, what's happening to this awesome ship, what's it's current status?

Just to illustrate what Rga is talking about, this is the Colly's main diffuse map:

(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/pics/ColMainHull.png)

This is the greeble map:

(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/pics/ColGreebles.png)

Looking forward to you producing normal maps for them, Dragon.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 20, 2012, 10:50:15 am
...is it me, or there's something that looks like a YT-1300 in the greeble map.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 20, 2012, 10:59:32 am
Yeup... its one (get ready!) COLOSSAL job! 

PUN.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Something on January 20, 2012, 11:15:09 am
...is it me, or there's something that looks like a YT-1300 in the greeble map.

Good eyes! That *is* a YT-1300!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on January 20, 2012, 11:21:48 am
That's a HUGE map.

What does it say there? .... warning GTVA ... ... .. do not attack?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on January 20, 2012, 11:30:37 am
Just a hunch, but as you baked the diffuse tilemaps for a lot of the first map... couldn't you also bake the existing normals and work off that? There's got to be ways to go from normal to heightmap...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 20, 2012, 11:31:14 am
I think it says:
Warning GTVA Missile Assemblies Do Not Attack
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Something on January 20, 2012, 11:36:44 am
I think it says:
Warning GTVA Missile Assemblies Do Not Attack

It says "Warning GTVA Missiles are highly volatile do not attack"
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Ulala on January 20, 2012, 03:45:03 pm
Good grief, those maps are huge.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Aardwolf on January 20, 2012, 05:31:45 pm
Reminds me of...

(http://www.starshipmodeler.com/other/18towr.jpg)

(that's not an ISD bridge)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 20, 2012, 08:31:45 pm
Gosh, that's one messy UV. No wonder why it's taking so long.
Also, what the Millennium Falcon is doing out there?
It'd be great if you could get rid of "GTVA Colossus" text on the greeble map and replace it with a proper nameplate.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 20, 2012, 09:46:51 pm
There's also maps for the Herc Mk.II and Artemis on there.  They could be included for modeled, static fighter and bomber craft placed on the new hangar.  Still doesn't account for the Falcon though.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Commander Zane on January 20, 2012, 10:04:12 pm
There's also maps for the Herc Mk.II and Artemis on there.  They could be included for modeled, static fighter and bomber craft placed on the new hangar.  Still doesn't account for the Falcon though.
The Falcons were on this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=53385.msg1426371#msg1426371) image, but I don't know where that is.
The Artemis and Herc IIs are from this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=53385.msg1426519#msg1426519) image.
But that's if neither of those parts have changed.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Zacam on January 20, 2012, 10:10:54 pm
Gosh, that's one messy UV. No wonder why it's taking so long.
No, it is not so much "messy" as it is massive. In fact, it is not messy at all. Everything presents and wraps properly with no discernible distortion.

The massiveness and the complexity of the lines and graded recesses and protrusions however is what combines to make this the most complex map to generate a normal map for.

Progress -is- slow, but it -is- happening and the results will be well worth the wait.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Sobbsy on January 24, 2012, 01:58:39 am
I think it says:
Warning GTVA Missile Assemblies Do Not Attack

It says "Warning GTVA Missiles are highly volatile do not attack"

Interesting. I look at it and see;

WARNING
GTVA (Something... MISSILES?)
ASS HIGHLY
VOLATILE
DO NOT ATTACK

 :blah:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2012, 12:05:42 pm
The Falcons were on this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=53385.msg1426371#msg1426371) image, but I don't know where that is.
The Artemis and Herc IIs are from this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=53385.msg1426519#msg1426519) image.
But that's if neither of those parts have changed.
Nope. Hasn't changed, never got an answer either. >_>

Gosh, that's one messy UV. No wonder why it's taking so long.
It'd be great if you could get rid of "GTVA Colossus" text on the greeble map and replace it with a proper nameplate.
Yeeeep, that's Galemp for you.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Spoon on January 24, 2012, 05:33:55 pm
Gosh, that's one messy UV. No wonder why it's taking so long.
It'd be great if you could get rid of "GTVA Colossus" text on the greeble map and replace it with a proper nameplate.
Yeeeep, that's Galemp for you.
Woah woah, everyone. Shut up for a moment.
We've got two UV experts talking here!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2012, 09:31:58 pm
Woah woah, everyone. Shut up for a moment.
We've got two UV experts talking here!
Wasn't talking so much about the UVMap but rather the GTVA Colossus not being on a nameplate. Soru to disappoint. :P
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 25, 2012, 05:02:20 am
Perhaps it's a placeholder. :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Crybertrance on January 25, 2012, 07:45:10 am
Since we are talking about nameplates, I'd like the nameplates of the Colly to be unique. Since the ship is one of a kind, it should have a more unique nameplate, compared to the usual GTVA nameplates. Maybe a more stylized font or frame would look nice (Maybe add the GTVA logo on it too)

Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on January 25, 2012, 02:15:17 pm
I think it'd be cool to have the name repeated in Vasudan script underneath.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on January 25, 2012, 02:28:15 pm
I think the FSU knows what to do about this, just let them work on it  ;)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 25, 2012, 07:26:25 pm
How about some fine print around the main beam turrets saying "Caution: Aim Away From Face"?  :lol:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Skarab on January 26, 2012, 01:22:43 am
It'd probably look good with some 22" spinner rims too.  And fuzzy dice.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Crybertrance on January 26, 2012, 10:25:17 am
It'd probably look good with some 22" spinner rims too.  And fuzzy dice.

And one of those little dancing Hawaii girls..
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Deadly in a Shadow on January 26, 2012, 12:36:09 pm
How about some fine print around the main beam turrets saying "Caution: Aim Away From Face"?  :lol:
"Avoid the beams here."
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Sololop on January 26, 2012, 05:15:15 pm
"Remove Before Flight" Oh wait that'd be a bad idea
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Alan Bolte on January 26, 2012, 07:55:56 pm
Works for lesser ships just as well:

[attachment deleted by a basterd]
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Mongoose on January 26, 2012, 08:59:49 pm
Okay, that needs to be on there for real. :lol:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: jg18 on January 26, 2012, 10:23:28 pm
:lol:

Nicely done.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kszyhu on January 27, 2012, 04:28:54 am
So you have to get close to the turret and start rolling your ship to read all the text, while ignoring that increasingly bright, annoying green glow? Brilliant  :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Cobra on February 19, 2012, 08:43:45 am
Is it done yet :nervous:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 19, 2012, 09:04:48 am
when it's done, we'll tell you. stop asking.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on January 12, 2013, 07:51:53 pm
Just checking out of idle curiosity if this Colossus model was still being worked on.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 12, 2013, 07:57:52 pm
when it's done, we'll tell you. stop asking.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Ulala on January 12, 2013, 11:30:46 pm
when it's done, we'll tell you. stop asking.

To be fair, that quote was almost a year ago. :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on January 17, 2013, 01:51:13 am
I get where mix is coming from, but I'm certainly not waiting another year to play through FS2's main campaign again. Mods have died in far less time than next to a year without updates. :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: SypheDMar on January 17, 2013, 02:23:05 am
Well, judging from mjn.mixael's response, you can surely bet that it's still in the pipeline. And knowing how fast pipelines move, we can assume that it'll get there when it gets there. :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 17, 2013, 07:02:45 am
Still, an update would be nice. I can't believe texturing that beast would take an entire year (it already had basic textures last time I've seen it). "When it's done" is an acceptable answer if it's actually being done, and something tells me it isn't.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on January 17, 2013, 07:52:07 am
So you're gonna texture it if it's not being worked on?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on January 17, 2013, 08:46:44 am
Guessing by the number of projects his badges attest to, I'd say not. :D
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 17, 2013, 09:08:28 am
So you're gonna texture it if it's not being worked on?
Well, actually, I thought about that. It all depends on the status of the main texture. If the main map is done, then I could try doing the rest. I might not be the best texturer in the world, but IMHO, it's better to have medicore normals and shine maps than nothing at all. This would most likely take some time, but I don't think an entire year.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 17, 2013, 10:55:30 am
A couple things, guys.

FSU is not dependent on me alone. The number of badges I have is irrelevant. What is far more relevant is the number of assets (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=78413.0) we are finalizing. There are assets we are working on that aren't even on that list yet.

The main work that needs to be done on the Colossus is the normal map needs to be traced from the diffuse. We were not given source files so we need to go it alone and we really want a proper normal map, not one generated from the diffuse in some bulk fashion. Essentially we need someone to go in and trace the lines on a few different layers in GIMP/Photoshop so that we can then set depth levels and make a proper normal map.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on January 17, 2013, 11:29:34 am
I could do that, MJN. But not today. I'm feeling extremely sick and apparently I'm not the only one in the family. Call me tomorrow or after, and I'll definitely check that out. For what is worth, I'm really used to make diffuse, normal, bump mapping for materials here in my office.

Also, the "number of badges" thing wasn't directed at you, it was directed at dragon. Wasn't even serious, so don't take offense.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on January 17, 2013, 08:03:46 pm
We were not given source files so we need to go it alone and we really want a proper normal map, not one generated from the diffuse in some bulk fashion.
In that case I can't help you. My method, while decent looking (ask the Inferno guys) is based exactly on what you don't want. :) Unfortunately I don't think I have the time to learn a new, completely different and much more complex method of normalmapping.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: pecenipicek on January 17, 2013, 09:37:04 pm
since when is "drawing out lines for us" considered a vastly different normalmapping technique? the basic idea is that you have a decent heightmap that you toss through a decent normal map filter, unless mjn is doing some more magic i'm not aware of (which is quite possible)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 17, 2013, 09:44:42 pm
Nope, that's exactly what we need. The problem is that for the Colossus map, this is a big job. A really big one. It's also going to be extremely mind-numbing. So naturally, many of us have put that off until we have nothing else to work on. :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: BrotherBryon on January 17, 2013, 10:39:29 pm
Big job is an understatement in this regard given the level of detail and shear size of the model in question. Not trying to deter anyone just stating the level of commitment it would take to do this thing right.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Cobra on January 18, 2013, 01:00:54 am
Doesn't really matter how much work's involved, you'll still get the impatient jackoffs yelling 'WHY ISN'T THIS DONE YOU GUYS DON'T WORK HARD ENOUGH'
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kobrar44 on January 18, 2013, 02:11:13 am
We were not given source files,
So there won't be any 4k maps? And these 2k from page 30 are basically what you have to work with?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on January 18, 2013, 04:34:04 am
Doesn't really matter how much work's involved, you'll still get the impatient jackoffs yelling 'WHY ISN'T THIS DONE YOU GUYS DON'T WORK HARD ENOUGH'

Actually I'm offering myself, if it's as numb a job as descripted. I know how to do it, and even if I take months doing it, well, at least someone has been doing something for the next month or two :).
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on January 18, 2013, 10:03:25 am
Can't this be done by the entire community? maps could be shared publicly and everyone could work on them in order.
Luis has already volunteered to start on it, if he ever gets bored or doesn't want to continue then he can relay the maps to someone else for continuation.

I get that it might be a little bit of a havoc to control the development process, but in a community where everyone is already busy and cannot devote a tremendous amount of time/effort, rotation of work between multiple responsible contributors seems to be the way to go.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Scourge of Ages on January 18, 2013, 01:04:51 pm
Can't this be done by the entire community? maps could be shared publicly and everyone could work on them in order.
Luis has already volunteered to start on it, if he ever gets bored or doesn't want to continue then he can relay the maps to someone else for continuation.

I get that it might be a little bit of a havoc to control the development process, but in a community where everyone is already busy and cannot devote a tremendous amount of time/effort, rotation of work between multiple responsible contributors seems to be the way to go.

That sounds pretty good. If somebody can throw out a simple tutorial, I can tackle a small part of it too.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 18, 2013, 02:08:34 pm
I suspect such an effort would be an exorcise in community futility. I don't expect enough people can work 2 images in an efficient enough way to produce a usable .psd of all the height map data. I will not be leading such an effort. Your challenge is to prove me wrong.

Greebles PNG (http://www.lunardigitalproductions.com/images/freespace/ColGreebles.png)
Main Hull PNG (http://www.lunardigitalproductions.com/images/freespace/ColMainHull.png)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Rodo on January 18, 2013, 02:32:45 pm
so my options are:

A) quickly duck sideways and take him out with a spinning kick.
or
B) take the claw on the face then roll on the ground and die.


I think I'm going with option B :P



Well in all seriousness, I might as well try. We're not loosing anything but my time so:

To anyone interested in giving the Colli's normal map a little love, please contact me via pm.
I'm not making a new thread for this, that will only happen if enough ppl reply to this message.

Luis, as you seem to be the only one already confirmed for this, would you be so kind as to send a pm telling me when you think you could start with it?.

edit: gotcha mjn.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 18, 2013, 02:35:34 pm
Just to be clear, the most useful thing would be a .psd with different heights on different layers.. perferrably as just black pixels. From that we can tweak and make the normal map from the height map.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kobrar44 on January 18, 2013, 03:34:29 pm
In this case, wouldn't be vectors actually the most useful?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on February 06, 2013, 11:15:54 am
****ing ****, damned ****ty ****. These maps are ****ing huge.

Havin' a ball though, don't worry.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 06, 2013, 11:20:50 am
****ing ****, damned ****ty ****. These maps are ****ing huge.

Havin' a ball though, don't worry.

And that's why we haven't gotten around to it yet!  :)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on February 06, 2013, 11:23:45 am
I'm being somewhat creative with the tracing, if you don't mind. The traces as they are have little (read zero) connection with the mesh as is. So I'm correcting that as I move along (assuming the diffuse will also be "remade", perhaps by me if I still have the patience / guts).
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 06, 2013, 11:25:07 am
Wat. We don't have the sources for the diffuse and are not planning on remaking it. The deal here was to trace the lines and make the normal map.. not retexture the whole thing...

EDIT: More specifically, we don't have the sources for any of it's maps. If you remake the diffuse, you have to remake the shine as well. So no. This is a bad idea.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Oddgrim on February 06, 2013, 11:32:03 am
I agree with mjn here, without the source maps doing this is indeed a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Luis Dias on February 06, 2013, 11:32:48 am
Well then, okidoki. Mind you though that my criticism stands. (and of course I was planning to do the shine maps and the glowmaps as well, those are the easiest once you get the basic traces that come from the bump mapping).

edit: I was not saying I was "reimagining" the whole thing. I am not. I was merely making some layers that were more context sensitive. The diffuse mapping only needed some corrections here and there. I started this once I saw the result in 3ds max and it sucked balls

edit2: Also, only the main hull maps would be affected by this, the greebles maps are absolutely fine as they are.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kodachi on August 23, 2013, 11:39:02 am
The link of the Colossus seems to be down.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Crybertrance on August 23, 2013, 12:32:54 pm
The link of the Colossus seems to be down.

Naa... That was the textureless pre-alpha I guess.. The real deal hasn't been released yet!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Kodachi on August 25, 2013, 04:36:51 am
Really? :/

I've seen a pic of the new Colossus floating around here somewhere, so I thought it was ready to be downloaded.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Nyctaeus on August 25, 2013, 08:05:30 am
It's almost ready. Base mesh, textures and everything are ready but it won't be released 'till the normalmaps are finished. I think we must wait to MVP 3.6.14.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Lc4Hunter on December 19, 2013, 04:12:29 am
Is there any chance to get the model just as the mesh?
Would love to take a look on it in max and (if allowed) to use it in another mod ;-)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on December 19, 2013, 05:36:48 am
Why not just grab it from the beta 2014 mediavps?
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Lc4Hunter on December 19, 2013, 10:52:37 pm
Well, haven´t realized its already in. Sorry for the request :nono:
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Lc4Hunter on December 22, 2013, 05:41:02 am
Sorry for posting here again, but has anyone still contact with ragingloli?
I wanted to ask him for the usage of the Colli and Sathanas in another mod but i got no answer (and yes, i´ve waited a while for it).  :(
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Galemp on February 08, 2015, 05:17:16 pm
Uh... hey guys. I'm, uh, lurking and... well, it seems you would appreciate the source layered files for the Colossus textures.

I have them here for you. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwhLOWpTEeADODBDWXpERmdWUGc/view?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 08, 2015, 05:19:01 pm
Snagged, and thanks! I'll get to work using this to really finish the maps for FSU.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on February 08, 2015, 05:37:03 pm
Sorry for posting here again, but has anyone still contact with ragingloli?
I wanted to ask him for the usage of the Colli and Sathanas in another mod but i got no answer (and yes, i´ve waited a while for it).  :(
If it's a mod for FS, you can do it. Same as with every MVP asset, really. Either make Mediavps a dependency or extract the model. If it's a non-FS mod, then the water is a bit murkier. Still, Mediavps are a group effort and IIRC, Ragingloli wasn't the only one working on this ship. Someone on FSU team will likely know what to do.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 08, 2015, 06:34:01 pm
Dragon, I hope you realized you just responded to a post that is more than a year old...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on February 09, 2015, 04:06:19 am
Only when I woke up the next morning. :) Shouldn't have posted in the middle of the night, I guess...
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: BirdofPrey on February 09, 2015, 04:25:08 am
See,  this is why I think we should have a central WiP assets database.  If someone disappears, work can be finished by the rest of the team without having to try and track that person down for the files, and old files are still available if needed. 
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: niffiwan on February 09, 2015, 04:38:20 am
I'm pretty sure the FSU team is already using SVN for WIP & released assets ;)
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: BirdofPrey on February 09, 2015, 04:41:36 am
Apparently not all of them if they only have finished files and not source files for things like this.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 09, 2015, 09:51:09 am
This idea is brought up often. It's just not realistic to force modders and artists to have to upload their content to a file system every time they work on a project. What do we do if they don't upload? What if they want to keep their project hidden until it's done for a big reveal? What if they want to avoid much of the (usually) controversial feedback regarding FSU upgrades?

By the time we answer all those questions in a way that satisfies everyone (unlikely), we'll basically have the system we have now. Make a model, post when you want and FSU will save it, whether it's completed or WIP.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: Dragon on February 09, 2015, 10:26:21 am
What if they want to avoid much of the (usually) controversial feedback regarding FSU upgrades?
This should be very much discouraged by FSU, preferably in favor of learning how to take criticism. Community feedback is important for models, especially ones that could go into MVPs.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: headdie on February 09, 2015, 10:42:27 am
and yet it is a fact of HLP
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 09, 2015, 10:55:08 am
What if they want to avoid much of the (usually) controversial feedback regarding FSU upgrades?
This should be very much discouraged by FSU, preferably in favor of learning how to take criticism. Community feedback is important for models, especially ones that could go into MVPs.

The community doesn't know how to give feedback constructively, and so a perpetual cycle was born. But that is neither here nor there.

FSU's job is not to regulate how or what modders create or how they create it, share it, or submit it. When an asset becomes available (finished, or WIP) we save it, test it, complete it and put it into the MediaVPs. That's all. Artists are free to create how, when, and what they want. I believe that putting rules on those sorts of things will begin to act as a barrier to artists creating anything at all for the MediaVPs.
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: chief1983 on February 09, 2015, 11:12:09 am
Understood, but perhaps some modders might be willing to use a voluntary ftp location or something, as opposed to making it some sort of rule.  Especially if it was easy to use and also served as a remote backup of their work in the event of an HD crash.  Ask me why I know that's important :p
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 09, 2015, 11:18:19 am
That's a good idea!
Title: Re: Colossus
Post by: BirdofPrey on February 09, 2015, 12:05:23 pm
Well I think they should be encouraged to put WiP stuff up just in case.  I do understand some people wanting to keep stuff as a surprise, but when they do reveal it, it sucks to see it then languish in development hell.  Like with this where it would have been easier for you guys to pick up where someone else left off if you had the original texture files, or the Leviathan that seems to be 99% done for the past year.

I know that may come off as entitled, but I do think there's a difference between working on a project for yourself and working on a project for something specific.  It's great seeing the ship someone is working on, but when they specifically single it out for the MVPs or mods, you do kind of get excited, and then when it is left half finished, it's incredibly disappointing (see my continued grousing about the Apollo), and I would hope people would feel more comfortable allowing other's to finish their work if they don't have the time for it.  I know I personally like to finish what I started, but I also like to see something finished regardless of who actually does it.

I'd certainly be willing to upload the .xcf files for what I've been working on in case someone other than me wanted to revisit them for 8k resolution in 5 years or maybe, if I were to become busy after finishing icons for each strikecraft, someone could backfill the larger ships.


As far as feedback when there actually is constructive criticism, it seems to be reasonably sound (looks wonky from X-angle, might look a tad bit better if, there's off geometry here).  The problem is it tends to get drowned out by all the not close enough to stock, crowd and the resulting counterargument that we shouldn't be bound by that and it, in fact, is too MUCH the same.  Every time someone turns a sharp angle into a curve or adds some greebling, someone seems to take exception.