Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: brandx0 on June 21, 2008, 06:34:43 pm

Title: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 21, 2008, 06:34:43 pm
Here we go, this is how the ISD Mk I is looking so far.  (As some of you know, I had to restart the model again)

(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5485/isdi01wj8.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Titan on June 21, 2008, 06:35:51 pm
 :cool:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 21, 2008, 07:58:05 pm
As always, :yes:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Scourge of Ages on June 21, 2008, 08:41:02 pm
Awesome! I think each time you restart this beast it looks better and goes faster! (That doesn't mean I want you to delay or restart again or anything :)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Droid803 on June 21, 2008, 10:20:44 pm
Nice!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on June 22, 2008, 04:40:29 pm
Will the Tector be based off this model, or made from scratch? (either way, w00t)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 22, 2008, 08:56:15 pm
Very nice. :yes:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 03:55:59 am
Will the Tector be based off this model, or made from scratch? (either way, w00t)

It'll be based off the ISD II, with some added armour plating.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 01:58:09 pm
And another WIP, now with some detail added to the bottom.

(http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5683/isdi02xe5.jpg)

And the back:

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8881/isdi03wy2.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 23, 2008, 03:00:11 pm
What's the polycount so far?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 03:12:59 pm
Higher than it should be and not as high as it will be

In other words, the polycount is artificially high right now because I haven't optimized it, at all, it's still a rough base mesh.  It'll be higher when I add more detail, but most of it will be detail boxed.  For the mesh you see right now, which is pretty much everything that isn't detail boxed I'm expecting about 6-7k.  The rest will be in detail boxes.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on June 23, 2008, 03:20:16 pm
Those baffles seem a bit large, compared to these (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/reference/3dscifi_Jedilaw/ISD_MkI/DevastatorEnginescompress.jpg).  Or, is it just the perspective?  :)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 03:31:43 pm
Yeah, you're right.

Fixed.

Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 03:58:37 pm
As for my point about polies, I made up a render to illustrate a bit of what I'm talking about.  There's a lot of unneeded lines in there, each of which is contributing to the polycount.  As those lines get welded with existing vertices that ARE needed, the polycount will reduce.

(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8222/wire01bi1.jpg)

And Triangulated to show where those extra vertices hurt:

(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1454/triangulated01eg0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 23, 2008, 04:29:27 pm
I understand how it works. Thanks for the answer.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 04:39:15 pm
Oh, and now she has teeth (yes, I'm aware that the 4th turret is supposed to be different, this is a placeholder until I do that one)

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7008/isdi05nf8.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Titan on June 23, 2008, 04:51:50 pm
question: why don't you just upgrade the models from IA?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 05:12:50 pm
Because I like mine better.

Besides, my work is my work, not someone else's work that I touched up for them.  I'm an all or nothing kinda guy like that.

Also, this is why:

(http://ia.emperorshammer.net/media/images/screens/screenxwblue.jpg)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8265/roguecq5.jpg)



(http://ia.emperorshammer.net/media/images/screens/screenisd.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7673/isdi19rq2.jpg)


(http://ia.emperorshammer.net/media/images/screens/screentfblue.jpg)
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6667/fighterrender001nl1.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 23, 2008, 05:33:03 pm
That's a good reason.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 23, 2008, 06:37:31 pm
That long thing was the old Star Destroyer ?

I like brandx0's work netter. Much better.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 06:41:08 pm
Not the old one, that's from Imperial Alliance, the other Freespace Star Wars mod.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 23, 2008, 07:04:11 pm
Oh... Its so ... long. It looks like a dagger.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 23, 2008, 07:57:23 pm
Little update, now with more bridge detail.

(http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9342/isdi06fq0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 23, 2008, 08:40:55 pm
What ever happened to IA?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on June 23, 2008, 09:40:12 pm
Still around. They're hosted at the Emperor's Hammer, which is an old guard of the Totally Games X-Wing series of games. They have their own codebase which needs to be merged in.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 23, 2008, 10:34:22 pm
But this SW conversion is totally different right ? Or are you gonna use their codes as well ?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on June 23, 2008, 10:49:56 pm
We have our hands on their codebase, Goober is going to attempt to merge them someday, if he can find the time, unless someone else wants to take a crack at it.  Some interesting tidbits are orientation-sensitive warp code and the split radar found in the Totally Games series.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 23, 2008, 10:54:53 pm
....orientation-sensitive warp code ...
Orientation-sensitive warp? Like, you have to be facing a particular direction before you can jump out?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on June 23, 2008, 10:58:03 pm
That's what I believe it to be.  And we already have position sensitive warpout, ie nav buoys, assuming we want to use those.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 23, 2008, 11:02:07 pm
That's what I believe it to be.  And we already have position sensitive warpout, ie nav buoys, assuming we want to use those.
Interesting. I don't see a need to use those, cause iirc, you don't have to face a particular direction to enter hyperspace.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 24, 2008, 06:25:07 am
If you want to travel in a particular direction, you do.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Droid803 on June 24, 2008, 10:46:33 am
If you want to travel in a particular direction, you do.
Yep :nod:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Titan on June 24, 2008, 12:45:09 pm
sorry for the delay in posts.. cookies aren't working and dad's outta town...

ok, i didn't realize the IA models were that bad. that ISD looks like it's out of a fun mirror at the carnival...
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on June 24, 2008, 01:49:58 pm
Bad or not, we decided a long time ago that we want to use original content.  So don't worry about trying to find us other stuff to use, we won't be using it.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 24, 2008, 02:44:27 pm
That actually looks like a Victory, not the Imperial (or whatever the main type is).
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 24, 2008, 02:48:09 pm
No, it's an ISD, the Victory has little wings, antennae sticking out the top and a protrusion coming out of the bridge
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Shade on June 24, 2008, 02:49:16 pm
Eh? It doesn't look the slightest bit like a Victory, except for being wedge-shaped and white.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 24, 2008, 02:51:37 pm
Whatever the really long one is.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 24, 2008, 02:53:00 pm
I'm not familiar with a particular "Really long one"
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Shade on June 24, 2008, 03:01:11 pm
The Vengeance perhaps? The one Jerec used in one of the Jedi Knight games?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 24, 2008, 03:08:27 pm
Yeah, it's possible?

(http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/17/Vengeance.jpg)
that the one you're thinking of?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 24, 2008, 03:24:17 pm
Nah, it was The Allegiance (http://galactic-voyage.com/Dark%20Side-Capital%20Ships-Allegiance%20Star%20Destroyer.htm).
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on June 24, 2008, 03:41:37 pm
How many times was the name Vengeance used, just out of curiosity?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 24, 2008, 03:53:54 pm
3 times.  the ISD Vengeance, the ISD Vengeance II, and the SSD Vengeance

All 3 were Jerec's Star Destroyers.  the ISD Vengeance was destroyed, the ISD Vengeance II was transferred to Vader's Death Squadron, and nobody really knows what became of the SSD Vengeance.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on June 24, 2008, 04:03:32 pm
I seem to remember a freighter called Vengeance, too.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 24, 2008, 04:08:20 pm
Probably

Oh, you guys are right, my proportions are off.  Here's a fixed version:

(http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/5792/longboyps0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on June 24, 2008, 04:12:40 pm
Another question, how are you doing the jump to lightspeed?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 24, 2008, 04:13:56 pm
With Panache and Style.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Droid803 on June 24, 2008, 04:35:04 pm
3 times.  the ISD Vengeance, the ISD Vengeance II, and the SSD Vengeance

All 3 were Jerec's Star Destroyers.  the ISD Vengeance was destroyed, the ISD Vengeance II was transferred to Vader's Death Squadron, and nobody really knows what became of the SSD Vengeance.
There are two SSD Vengeance.
One is Jerec's SSD
The other is the SSD from X-wing vs TIE Fighter Balance of power.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on June 24, 2008, 04:50:08 pm
How many times was the name Vengeance used, just out of curiosity?

Vengeance was a common name for starships, particularly Imperial warships.

The following are the vessels were commissioned in the Imperial Starfleet as Vengeance: Other ships named Vengeance include A Galactic Republic Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser, a modified YV-260 light freighter operated by the Bomu Clan of pirates, and the Vengeance-class frigate.
Source (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vengeance)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 24, 2008, 07:36:34 pm
WIP Update:

(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3466/isdi07dw9.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 24, 2008, 07:53:20 pm
Sweeeeet.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: aRaven on June 25, 2008, 01:31:48 am
the proportions are off!!

 :ick: :lol:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on June 25, 2008, 01:12:21 pm
the proportions are off!!
It's done to the exact millimeter using schematics, FYI.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 25, 2008, 10:07:48 pm
Another quick update:

(http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8302/isdi08nv6.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on June 25, 2008, 11:08:11 pm
Lookin' prettier all the time man.  I'm guessing this mesh won't get so much detail as before in light of normal maps, hopefully that means the meshes are done even sooner :)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 25, 2008, 11:14:33 pm
It'll be slightly less detailed, but a good portion of it still needs to be on the mesh, considering that the player will likely be flying rather close to these things and that's where normal mapping breaks down a bit, especially if you're trying to capitalize on TRD, skimming over the trench or terraces.  Looking straight down'll kind of break immersion when you notice it's actually flat.  Parralax mapping will help with that, however, but there still needs to be significant detail on the mesh itself.  Remember that many of those little greeble bumps are still as big as a whole fighter
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 26, 2008, 06:47:09 am
Okay, I'm going to bed now.

Now it's got an Ion cannon, and the turrets are properly aligned and scaled.

(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1118/isdi09pu4.jpg)

And of course, a comparison shot between the two subclasses
(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9249/classcompare02er5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: aRaven on June 26, 2008, 02:17:56 pm
the proportions are off!!
It's done to the exact millimeter using schematics, FYI.

it was a (running) joke! look at the smileys! ^^
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on June 26, 2008, 11:50:09 pm
the proportions are off!!
It's done to the exact millimeter using schematics, FYI.

it was a (running) joke! look at the smileys! ^^

Yes, and I imagine Snail was just continuing to run with it, and not actually rushing to Brand's defense.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 27, 2008, 04:33:55 pm
That needs to be Brand's title, "It's properly proportioned!" or something like that.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 27, 2008, 06:18:11 pm
Don't have time to do separate renders of each right now, so I'll just put up the compare picture in both threads:

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8354/classcompare03nh1.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 27, 2008, 06:20:08 pm
As always, me likey.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: starlord on June 27, 2008, 06:24:12 pm
Simple question: do you plan to put the allegiance in?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 27, 2008, 06:28:45 pm
Look at the shipset thread for that answer.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on June 29, 2008, 03:30:10 pm
And here we go, a WIP shot showing a better view of those greebles

(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/198/isdi10ms6.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: starlord on June 29, 2008, 03:56:37 pm
Hubba hubba! ;7
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Alan Bolte on July 01, 2008, 10:02:36 am
Do you have a reference pic for the linear array on the bridge tower? None of the pics I can find are sufficient. I'd always just assumed that the mount of the array on the ISD I was identical to the mount on the ISD II, just that the array was facing forward instead of upward. The design you have here isn't something I've seen before.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 01, 2008, 12:33:25 pm
(http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/chron/isdface1a.jpg)

On my model, the tower is still incomplete, but the basic structure is there.  I experimented with just turning the ISDII array on its side, but the proportions were off so I had to make one from scratch.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Alan Bolte on July 02, 2008, 12:52:30 am
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 02, 2008, 12:58:29 am
No problem.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 02, 2008, 01:41:15 am
Updated render here.  Once again, moar greebles.

(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8131/isdi11ol7.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 02, 2008, 01:47:05 am
Wooo! Greeeeeblesss!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 02, 2008, 03:26:12 am
And another...

(http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5940/isdi12oo7.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 02, 2008, 07:13:31 am
tbh, I don't see much of a difference between the two, but its probably detailing that you did.

Also, the SD somehow looks like its textured.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 12:29:04 pm
tbh, I don't see much of a difference between the two, but its probably detailing that you did.

Also, the SD somehow looks like its textured.
Because it's grey to begin with :lol:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 02, 2008, 05:18:32 pm
Bit more detail now.

And trust me, there's a lot of difference.  Open up the latest full render of each and ctrl tab between the two and you'll see.
EDIT: Oh, you mean between the last two renders.  It's mostly just more detail on the 2nd level of the terraces.
(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6775/terraces2cn0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 02, 2008, 05:44:04 pm
And another compare shot

(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/3773/classcompare05pb0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on July 02, 2008, 10:35:53 pm
you're insane.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 02, 2008, 10:42:19 pm
More:

EDIT: uploaded a higher res/quality version

(http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/6483/terraces3ri8.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 10:46:10 pm
 :eek2:

That is some insane detail you've got on there.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 02, 2008, 11:53:49 pm
If sanity is for the weak, Brandx0 must be pretty strong.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 02, 2008, 11:54:39 pm
Why is everyone saying I'm insane?  I think it takes a pretty clear head to make these models (trust me, I've tried modeling drunk and it doesn't work too well)

=P
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 03, 2008, 06:26:01 am
Last update for the day.

(http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1554/isdi13qf7.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on July 03, 2008, 12:35:13 pm
Make sure those turrets have enough clearance to rotate, otherwise they'll be stuck in the broadside position.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 03, 2008, 02:59:45 pm
I made sure that they do have room to rotate.  They're actually spaced out enough to do a complete 360 rotation, but these guns aren't designed to be able to fire outside of about a 120 degree fire arc to either side.  Any further and they'd hit the gun next to them when they fire.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 03, 2008, 03:41:57 pm
And I think that some of the new turret code being worked on should allow that kind of fine control as well.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 04, 2008, 03:35:48 pm
And another high res compare shot.

(http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/5309/classcompare06co6.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 05, 2008, 05:18:33 am
More detail along the sides near the turrets.  Almost finished the Terraces!  After that it's just completing the detail on the bottom and a few other random parts, and then the trench!

(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/1632/isdi14jy5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Titan on July 05, 2008, 09:59:53 am
speaking of turret control, how are you gonna get them to only fire in that very particular canon firing arc?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 05, 2008, 10:20:24 am
By telling them. In PCS2, you can set constraints like that.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on July 05, 2008, 11:42:37 am
No you can't actually - but you can specify rotational limitations in the ships tbl entry for each turret under one of Wanderers builds. :)

The ISDs are lovely Brand. Very cool.
Could we get a closeup shot of the two destroyers bridge section greeblage perchance? They're my favourite piece of my favourite sci-fi ship and look particularly sweet here. :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 05, 2008, 03:09:44 pm
Ask and ye shall recieve

(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7519/bridgeisdiqe4.jpg)
(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2166/bridgeisdiime5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 05, 2008, 05:33:46 pm
And finally! The terraces are complete!

(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6802/terraces4yv2.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 05, 2008, 05:47:45 pm
And finally! The terraces are complete!

      Dang, What's the polycount on that thing? (keeping in mind that you probably haven't had the chance to clean it up yet).
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 05, 2008, 05:54:04 pm
So again, what do you use to model?

And :jaw:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 05, 2008, 05:55:47 pm
All of the detail all together comes up to 18k triangles right now (which is pretty damn good)

That'll decrease a bit, but increase once I get the trench done.  Also about 12k of that is in detail boxes.  

So all in all, we're doing damn good.

And I use 3D studio max to model, with VRay to render.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Alan Bolte on July 05, 2008, 08:30:20 pm
Impressive. Most impressive.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Flaser on July 06, 2008, 05:56:18 pm
You're probably the no. 1 reason why Kazan will hurry up the Collada implementation in PCS2.x
When told that he could have a Stardestroyer to play with - and finally a ship that properly uses detail boxes - sticking to Truespace and Truespace only will no longer cut it.

The same goes for getting wanderer's features into the trunk build.

In other words: you guys are an awesome motivation for coders.(...and Bobbau is swelling with pride, since such a polycount monster is only possible with his detail box code).
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on July 06, 2008, 09:53:01 pm
I wish. I haven't seen them around in a while.

*waves wad of cash* Collada! Collada! Here boy! Here!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 07, 2008, 04:37:25 am
Thanks a lot for the encouragement guys, it really does help.

And now we've finally got some work done on the trench.

(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7062/spotthexwingrh3.jpg)

Whoever spots the X-wing first gets 5 points
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Davin on July 07, 2008, 07:05:34 am
Whoever spots the X-wing first gets 5 points

Found it

(http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5606/spotthexwingrh3vi3.jpg)

Really good job on this thing.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on July 07, 2008, 07:51:29 am
Can I request/remind you to pick out which of those greebles are going to be actual turrets?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: jr2 on July 07, 2008, 09:20:20 am
Can't all of them be turrets, and only some of them be "live"?  (If you mean which of the visible guns will actually work.)  That way you can improve later with just table editing, right?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: starlord on July 07, 2008, 11:15:00 am
what about underside turrets? Where are they placed?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on July 07, 2008, 11:19:50 am
The firepoints can be moved wherever we want (we can even have an entire bank of rapid fire firepoints linked to one physical turret) but it's important to see what the actual submodels will be that can be destroyed.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: starlord on July 07, 2008, 11:37:40 am
Yes, of course, but I meant cannonwise...
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 07, 2008, 12:47:07 pm
Yes, of course, but I meant cannonwise...
Cannon or canon?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 07, 2008, 02:19:47 pm
Oh boy...
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 07, 2008, 02:27:15 pm
Yes, of course, but I meant cannonwise...
Cannon or canon?

Cannon!

(http://swc.fs2downloads.com/media/cannon2.jpg)

Shoop da whoop!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 07, 2008, 02:58:12 pm
Little more work done now.

As for the guns on the underside, there's only 2, placed right in front of the main docking bay.

(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5798/isdi16jj0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 07, 2008, 04:01:11 pm
Well, I have come up with an idea, using a technique I'm starting to call Greeble Rationalisation.  Along the trench of the ISD there are a number of greebles which hang from the top, near the edge.  I thought about it and came to the conclusion that they would be ideal spotting towers in that they have an unobstructed view, unlike everywhere else on the ship due to all the greebles.  These will be the destroyable subobjects which control the firing of the guns from deeper within the trench. 

(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8276/isdi17yj0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on July 07, 2008, 04:40:01 pm
...These will be the destroyable subobjects which control the firing of the guns from deeper within the trench...

The idea is fine, but isn't there some kind of subsystem limit per ship? Last time I checked - with an ancient version of FSO - there was one. Not to mention Titan's enquiry about our mod being computer-friendly.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 07, 2008, 04:57:43 pm
We'll figure a way to get it within the subsystem limit.  If we can't fit enough guns on the ISD then there's really not a lot of point in continuing with the mod, so we'll make it happen because we need it to happen.

As for computer friendlyness, me and chief talked a long time ago and agreed that we need to make this mod for the computer of today, not for the computer of 5 years ago.  The system requirements will be high (not as high as say, Crysis or anything on that scale, but an old beater won't do it for this mod)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: ShadowGorrath on July 07, 2008, 05:11:41 pm
Congrats- you just made me loose interest in the mod. :p Bye.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 07, 2008, 05:28:30 pm
I think it's perfectly acceptable to make a game that takes advantage of more modern hardware.  The engine has matured, I'm sorry if your computers haven't matured along with it.  That was kind of the whole point of the SCP though, to take advantage of newer hardware.  I'm really starting to consider deleting posts that keep complaining about hardware requirements, especially from repeat offenders.  The game isn't anywhere near release, so stop worrying that it won't run on your hardware as of now.

Back to the topic, the subsystem limit shouldn't be an issue, in fact this allows us to seemingly control more turrets with fewer subsystems.  Firepoints can be dispersed along the trench, instead of grouped, giving it the appearance of up to three turrets per control system just based on there being three firepoints per turret subobject.  This actually works to our advantage.  The only problem is when people start shooting firepoints and not actual turret control stations, but we can probably take that into account with some creativity as well.  This won't matter if the subsystem limit gets bumped, we can do whatever we want, but I'm not counting on that happening anytime soon since I believe that's slated for 3.7.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 07, 2008, 08:40:12 pm
Make a feature request for higher subsystem and turret limit, or code it yourself chief.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 07, 2008, 09:02:21 pm
Congrats- you just made me loose interest in the mod. :p Bye.


Detail levels?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Whitelight on July 07, 2008, 09:26:04 pm
Damn this is good.  ;)

The detail is an A+ .  ;)

The Imperial-I Star Destroyer is.  :jaw:   What more can I say.  Feel the glory  :yes:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 07, 2008, 09:37:03 pm
Congrats- you just made me loose interest in the mod. :p Bye.
So you let your interest loose to run free?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 07, 2008, 11:57:49 pm
Make a feature request for higher subsystem and turret limit, or code it yourself chief.

What?  Why are you giving me orders?  Did Elvis die and make you the king?  I think not.  That kind of comment should be reserved for people who go around telling coders to do things that they say are easy, and I did no such thing.  I'm fully aware of what's required for an increase in the limit, as it's been mentioned many times before.  Filing a request doesn't mean it'll get done any faster, and I'm nowhere near capable of tackling it myself.

So you let your interest loose to run free?

Interest is never free.  It comes from the bank, and they had to get it from somewhere.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 08, 2008, 04:23:06 am
On the topic of system specs, I always laugh that people will go out and buy a brand new computer solely for the purposes of playing a game like Crysis, but when we say that our game will have higher system specs than FS2 and probably won't run on computers from the late 90s everyone gets in a huff about it. 

As chief said, deal with it.

Another update:

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5973/isdi18lk3.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 08, 2008, 05:42:01 am
And another, Trench is done, now it's just a few more random greebles, yay!

(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7673/isdi19rq2.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: ShadowGorrath on July 08, 2008, 06:38:34 am
I am still going to pulverise that ship though. No matter how pretty you make it.  ;)

P.S. I'm still watching this mod. You're not getting rid of me that easily !  :lol:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 08, 2008, 08:23:11 am
Make a feature request for higher subsystem and turret limit, or code it yourself chief.

What?  Why are you giving me orders?  Did Elvis die and make you the king?  I think not.  That kind of comment should be reserved for people who go around telling coders to do things that they say are easy, and I did no such thing.  I'm fully aware of what's required for an increase in the limit, as it's been mentioned many times before.  Filing a request doesn't mean it'll get done any faster, and I'm nowhere near capable of tackling it myself.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, that was a suggestion, not an order. And nowhere did I mention that it would be easy.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 08, 2008, 11:11:30 am
I shall gladly order my wingmen to kamikaze the bridge!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: aRaven on July 08, 2008, 11:30:20 am
I would love to see that beautiful thing in action!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 08, 2008, 11:45:41 am
I shall gladly order my wingmen to kamikaze the bridge!
That was an SSD not an ISD. :ha:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 08, 2008, 12:17:11 pm
Well, it still has a bridge that begs to be blasted/nuked/kamikazed/dumbfire owned/M3 owned/beamed/destroyed !
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 08, 2008, 03:57:08 pm
Little bit of reproportioning and new gun turrets in the middle

(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6380/isdi22nd6.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 08, 2008, 04:15:39 pm
Can you show us the destroyed submodels, if/when they are done?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 08, 2008, 04:40:17 pm
Haven't even started on them yet, but I will when they're ready
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 08, 2008, 11:32:08 pm
And another shot of the back with some new detail.

(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7690/isdi23pw5.jpg)

And on the bottom

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2072/isdi24or0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 09, 2008, 05:09:41 am
Will there be a docking point in the main hangar so we can stick Corellian corvettes in there? ;)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 09, 2008, 07:24:00 am
No, there won't


Instead, there'll be a full hangar, with a docking point for ships that don't fit in, like the Corellian corvette.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 09, 2008, 10:06:19 am
Can I fly a fighter into the fighterbay and pummel the ISD from the inside out, or is entry gonna be restricted?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 09, 2008, 10:08:10 am
Can I fly a fighter into the fighterbay and pummel the ISD from the inside out, or is entry gonna be restricted?
Stormtroopers will be autospawned and start at you. :P
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 09, 2008, 10:11:22 am
Repeating blasters > Stormtroopers


At least, until they break out the heavy weapons.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 09, 2008, 10:17:48 am
If you manage to kill them, Darth Vader comes out with his limited range beam cannon (aka lightsaber).
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 09, 2008, 10:31:42 am
Then I type www.freespace2.com really really fast and hit ~+i
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on July 09, 2008, 10:40:28 am
If you manage to kill them, Darth Vader comes out with his limited range beam cannon (aka lightsaber).

Damn.  :mad2: Our direst of secrets is out. Whose computer have you hacked to know that? Or did someone leak it out on purpose? I sense a conspiracy. :P
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 09, 2008, 10:45:10 am
Then I type www.freespace2.com really really fast and hit ~+i
Use the Force.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 09, 2008, 12:15:55 pm
Use the Force.
He'll just use the force to crush my fighter a la Star Wars Empire at War
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 09, 2008, 01:07:08 pm
You see, www.freespace2.com shouldn't have a scientific explanation
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: jr2 on July 09, 2008, 03:22:04 pm
On the topic of system requirements, lurn to turn the dumb detail levels down.  D'uh!!!  That's what they are for, ATM they'd prolly let you run this on an old 233Mhz without MVPs (IDK about that, though).

On the topic of flying into the ISD's hangar, not a good idea... AFAIK, all big ships have huge turbolasers inside the docking bays, to deal with either that scenario, or a treacherous ship trying to escape, or e.g. in SW ep I where Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan's ship was blasted.  No, you don't want to fly into the hangar... oh, and remember when the Millenium Falcon got towed into the Death Star?  Wasn't there turbolasers there?  How they got away?  Well, Obi-Wan shut down the reactor for that sector, remember?  ;)  (At the very least, they'd engage the tractor beams to hold you pointing out the door whilst they sortied the cheapest TIE they could find to serve you a humiliating defeat.  xD)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 09, 2008, 06:30:04 pm
*sigh* so many inaccuracies...

No one said they wanted to fly into the hangar themselves, they just want a dock to put something there that belongs there.

The Falcon did not get away because of him shutting down the turbolasers.  If I remember, I believe the generator was only for the tractor beam, and not the turbolasers.  On top of that, they were allowed to escape, so I'm guessing the empire could have used more force to stop them if they'd wanted to.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: jr2 on July 10, 2008, 12:12:09 am
The reac was for the tractor beams.  :P  I just assumed it also powered the turbolasers... I mean, unless they just had a dedicated reactor for the tractor beams in that sector or something.  :lol:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 10, 2008, 12:21:25 am
:wtf: Why would you have a turbolaser in the hanger? It'd be too easy to take control and kablam the ship from the inside out, then. The reactor was definitely for the tractor beams.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: jr2 on July 10, 2008, 12:24:09 am
:wtf: Why would you have a turbolaser in the hanger? It'd be too easy to take control and kablam the ship from the inside out, then. The reactor was definitely for the tractor beams.

Hmm, that might actually be a worthwhile tactic, if it wasn't for the ease of flying a gunship into the hang--- wait a minute.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 10, 2008, 12:29:25 am
Almost done

(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/264/isdi26ve6.jpg)
(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1204/isdi25bc3.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 10, 2008, 02:18:04 am
Well, this model's just about done the base mesh now.  All I need to do is add the grappling claw, and then I'll be able to start texturing, then I can just put in my LODs and destroyed submeshes and voila, we're done!

(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5881/orthotopgg5.jpg)
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7233/ortholeftmm4.jpg)
(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4499/orthofrontbf4.jpg)
(http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/880/orthobottomlu7.jpg)
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8555/orthobackbg2.jpg)

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1905/isdi28km2.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Knarfe1000 on July 10, 2008, 05:56:13 am
G R E A T  Work!  I can´t wait to blow it up... :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Alan Bolte on July 10, 2008, 07:55:14 am
I hope you have it backed up, because that's too valuable to lose.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on July 10, 2008, 08:14:55 am
I can't wait to put it into a mission and see it ingame. Even without textures, I can imagine it flying about, launching TIEs.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: ShadowGorrath on July 10, 2008, 08:18:32 am
I can't wait to put it into a mission and see it ingame. Even without textures, I can imagine it flying about, launching TIEs.

and then dying from a BFRed and multiple Maras with Seraphims.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Turambar on July 10, 2008, 08:55:49 am
and then opening up a 30 turbolaser broadside on a mon-cal cruiser.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: aRaven on July 10, 2008, 09:34:13 am
Even the proportions are on!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 10, 2008, 10:35:22 am
Even the proportions are on!

OMG Someone get this man a cookie!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Flaser on July 10, 2008, 12:08:09 pm
That's one great looking Stardestroyer! It's even "low-poly" enough for a game and not show it! Add some normal maps and it will blow ever model in every game ever to grace Star Wars out of the water, with enough firepower to spare, to give us a suntan down below.

One thing I noticed was that unlike fractalsponge's model your's bridge is parallel with the spine of the ship while his bridge was parallel with the wedge's spine....I think your's better. (The guy made a hi-poly model and Lucasarts "appropriated" it for their "Force Unleashed" trailer).

How much of what you've added to the Mark I will carry over to the Mark II? ...will the Mark II have a different trench armament? Final question: how much *more* detail will normal maps carry?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 10, 2008, 02:20:04 pm
Yeah, I chose to keep the bridge looking forward, sources differ on which is correct but I like it straight ahead.

The Mk. II is at this point a separate mesh.  It will be greebled separately and pretty much be a completely different model on the same shell as the ISD I, so yes the armament will be different.  Most of the stuff in the normal map will be adding texture to the large flat areas, though the greebles will get some extras too.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 10, 2008, 11:22:32 pm
And if you recall, FractalSponge's mesh as used by Lucasarts was the incorrect version, he had since updated it to the proper proportions.  I always found that funny.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 10, 2008, 11:52:13 pm
I shall gladly order my wingmen to kamikaze the bridge!
That was an SSD not an ISD. :ha:

    Yeah for ISD's you need to break out the Suncrusher.  :ick:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 11, 2008, 12:12:20 am
There will be no suncrusher.  Not one that we'll do anyways.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 11, 2008, 12:14:04 am
There will be no suncrusher.  Not one that we'll do anyways.

      That's perfectly fine, I certainly won't miss it.
      That trilogy's one of the few SWs books I've ever bothered to read is all.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on July 11, 2008, 02:19:06 am
Dear god, you mean to say that you've only been exposed to the EU via KJ Anderson, the bane of all that is Good and Holy, Defiler of Maud'dib, taunter of small children, and all around lousy writer? Go read some Zahn, man. Hurry! For your own good!

And follow that up with some Stackpole, he's good too.



Although KJA did have a mildly intresting original short in Analog a couple years back. I guess he just doesn't try as hard when it's other people's 'verses.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 11, 2008, 06:11:10 am
Huh?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Turambar on July 11, 2008, 11:28:04 am
Zahn and Stackpole constructed a Star Wars universe that was actually coherent, cohesive, entertaining, and non-self-contradictory.  they shared characters and plot points and everything they did seemed to mesh together well. 

They are why I like Star Wars as much as I do.
(Allston helped, his stuff wasnt bad either)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 11, 2008, 02:19:22 pm
Dear god, you mean to say that you've only been exposed to the EU via KJ Anderson, the bane of all that is Good and Holy, Defiler of Maud'dib, taunter of small children, and all around lousy writer? Go read some Zahn, man. Hurry! For your own good!

And follow that up with some Stackpole, he's good too.

     Eh, this is getting offtopic.
     I read the first few chapters of the Thrawn trilogy and then stopped for some reason or other, took the books back to library. As for Stackpole, yeah . . . a lot of people love him, but for Battletech he's not my favourite writer. Mostly because all of his characters are frigging unbeatable super heroes. It gets old. Not sure about his Star Wars stuff. Oh wait, actually I read the first book of Rogue Squadron, but then could never find the second. And didn't want to read anything out of sequence. It wasn't bad.


      Back on topic, I wonder how many polies the Mon Cals are going to be. If they're given the same amount of detail, they should be considerably more given their very organic nature. Or maybe a lot of the detail can be done with normal maps, etcetera . . . been a while since I watched RotJ
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 11, 2008, 03:53:53 pm
Moncals don't have as many small greebles.  one could probably come up with a moncal cruiser at maybe 120% of the polies the ISD has.

EDIT: I should note though, that this is total polycount.  The Moncal can't get away with puttin everything in detail boxes like the ISD can.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 11, 2008, 06:10:36 pm
But it's smoothing can be reduced more with each LOD, the ISD can't really get rid of that base detail.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Flipside on July 12, 2008, 10:19:45 pm
I think you're going to need a nice wide FOV in this mod, so that you can truly appreciate the feel of gliding past that thing :D

Awesome work.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Turambar on July 12, 2008, 11:37:28 pm
I think you're going to need a nice wide FOV in this mod, so that you can truly appreciate the feel of gliding past that thing :D

Awesome work.

I was thinking narrow FOV just so that it appears that much more massive
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on July 13, 2008, 10:22:31 pm
Oh, come on, please! My monitor's small enough as it is. Don't make it feel like I'm peering through a porthole or something. Big FOV! BIIIIIIIIIIG fov.


Fisheye!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: ShadowGorrath on July 14, 2008, 04:19:27 am
You can always set your own FOV. Unless the one in a mission overrides the custom one?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 15, 2008, 02:58:22 pm
Here we go, the first peek at the normal mapping on this monster

(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/736/isdi29fe5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 15, 2008, 03:58:00 pm
Wow. You continue to amaze me.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 15, 2008, 04:31:52 pm
Lighting was too harsh, updated render with a better light setup

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5487/isdi30dg2.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 15, 2008, 05:10:25 pm
The lines on the front don't look too good.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 15, 2008, 05:19:30 pm
View full-size.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Flipside on July 15, 2008, 07:23:44 pm
I think you're going to need a nice wide FOV in this mod, so that you can truly appreciate the feel of gliding past that thing :D

Awesome work.

I was thinking narrow FOV just so that it appears that much more massive

My only problem with narrow FOV is that I tend to lose perspective of the size of my own ship, though, you are right that the smaller FOV would probably add more impact.

Of course, playing on a hemispherical monitor that covered around 120' of vision would be the perfect solution ;)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 15, 2008, 08:19:14 pm
View full-size.
I did. They look better smaller.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Scourge of Ages on July 15, 2008, 10:14:30 pm
My only problem with narrow FOV is that I tend to lose perspective of the size of my own ship, though, you are right that the smaller FOV would probably add more impact.

Of course, playing on a hemispherical monitor that covered around 120' of vision would be the perfect solution ;)

Hear-hear! I've always had that feeling (and wanted that solution).
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 15, 2008, 10:17:49 pm
The thing I've always wanted to do, is play FS2 with a hemispherical moniter, with surround sound, on a fighter chair and state-of-the-art joysticks. With a fridge full of drinks within easy reach.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Alan Bolte on July 16, 2008, 12:05:32 am
The lines on the front don't look too good.
I think the problem is that they are too harsh, too obvious looking. It's not just the lighting, I think it's the contrast in the normal maps themselves. It's not the same ship, but consider this image (http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/8/87/Imperial_Venator.jpg) for example, the panels are there, but subtle.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 16, 2008, 02:30:32 am
Well, let's address these complaints.  The normal map itself is actually very subtle.

First off, you can't use the Venator as an example, it's a totally different ship which uses an entirely different style of panelling so I'm disregarding that.

Secondly, in the original films you're looking at a hand made model 3 feet long shot on 1970s film stock, which isn't exactly the sharpest of mediums to shoot in, so you're going to blur out a lot of detail, which I don't feel like doing.

Thirdly, the lines themselves on the actual filming model are very prominent (See Here (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/reference/3dscifi_Jedilaw/ISD_MkI/DeastatorHullStructures4compressed.jpg))

Fourthly, I'm using a high edge enhancement filter for the renders, as to show off the detail present in the map.  It gives a very very sharp result.  Using a different filter it's much closer to what you probably remember from the films.  Remember this is a WIP, and so renders of it are going to try and accentuate the work done. 

Here is another render, using a different anti-aliasing filter (Cook-Variable with a strength of 2.5, for anyone who knows what that means)

(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2314/isdicookvariablepo9.jpg)

Compared to the original filter (Catmull-rom for those who know what that means too)

(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1706/isdi35qf1.jpg)

Exact same map, just different filters
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 16, 2008, 08:30:53 am
A lot better.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Dr. Nick on July 16, 2008, 11:24:29 am
Gotta love that Catmull-Rom. I only found out about it a few months ago...pretty sad  :(
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on July 16, 2008, 01:07:46 pm
I still can't believe this could actually be in-game someday.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on July 16, 2008, 01:51:57 pm
Out of curiosity, do we have a poly-count?

Also, the normal maps look awesome, especially with the lighting in the last setup and the CookVar aa.

Awesomeness incarnate.

Edit:
Actually, I prefer the catmull. My glasses were a bit smudgey the first time I looked at it.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on July 16, 2008, 02:45:56 pm
However I look at the pics, they are the same to me. What's the difference, really?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 16, 2008, 02:48:25 pm
If you look at them full-size, the cat-mull is much sharper than the cookvar.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 16, 2008, 03:29:41 pm
If you look at them full-size, the cat-mull is much sharper than the cookvar.

...with the minimal disadvantage of lines being slightly more aliased, but I have to agree that cat-mull looks a lot better at this relatively small resolution.

Cook variable might be better at very high resolution renders like 4096x2048... or even 1680x1050 (nudge nudge, wink wink, me wants a new background). :p
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 16, 2008, 04:55:16 pm
An update here

(http://swc.fs2downloads.com/media/screenshots/Capships/Star_Destroyers/ISD/isdi36.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 16, 2008, 04:58:13 pm
I think you should use a more darker grey than this.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: aRaven on July 16, 2008, 05:16:58 pm
I think it should be more white
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 16, 2008, 05:33:26 pm
I think you should use a more darker grey than this.

I think it should be more white

I think you two should fight, and then we'll ignore both of you and make it what it's supposed to be anyway :)

That's not the diffuse color anyway (I believe), just the normal map render.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 16, 2008, 06:04:15 pm
I think you should use a more darker grey than this.

I think it should be more white

I think you two should fight, and then we'll ignore both of you and make it what it's supposed to be anyway :)

That's not the diffuse color anyway (I believe), just the normal map render.

You're right ^^. I didn't notice the ISD doesn't have any glow/lights or whatever you call concerning this. By the way, I think you know what I mean (or perhaps not) :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: bkd86 on July 16, 2008, 07:07:52 pm
Here we go, the first peek at the normal mapping on this monster

Its not textured yet guys, he is just working on the normal map.  :rolleyes: Looks very good.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: IceFire on July 16, 2008, 10:58:24 pm
Looks brilliant man!  Keep up the awesome work ...that detailing is incredible!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on July 17, 2008, 12:53:24 am
Very, very nice work. Propably going to be the best ingame Star Destroyer seen anywhere thus far.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 17, 2008, 12:55:18 am
Very, very nice work. Propably going to be the best ingame Star Destroyer seen anywhere thus far.

At this point, I think the competition for that title will be between his ISD I and his ISD II :)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on July 17, 2008, 01:00:17 am
At this point, I think the competition for that title will be between his ISD I and his ISD II :)
Highly likely.

It seems every 3d modeler who's into scifi has to model either the Enterprise or Star Destroyer at some point of his life... and I'm getting the urge to model the SD thanks to brandx, fractalsponge and jedilaw :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on July 17, 2008, 05:28:15 am
Coloring is ok. It will look different when there are other ingame light sources like suns or giant explosions.

Ships in FS look darker when they're in game. Decent shinemapping would also help a lot in this regard.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 17, 2008, 01:29:45 pm
Also, regardless, the ISD is white.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Titan on July 18, 2008, 11:36:02 am
the ISD never really looked shiny, the only shinemapped ships i can think of should be TIEs. everything else is sorta dirty, gritty. not super shiny, like how a sinemap makes stuff.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 18, 2008, 11:57:07 am
the ISD never really looked shiny, the only shinemapped ships i can think of should be TIEs. everything else is sorta dirty, gritty. not super shiny, like how a sinemap makes stuff.


And you reckon there aren't any shiny parts at all, like turret barrels, windows etc. assorted stuff?

The fact of the matter is that for the most part, ships in Star Wars universe (sans prequel trilogy) tend to have very close to matte surface finish with very low gloss factor, be it due to wear, tear and grime and dirt or by design - I would think the latter makes sense for the same reasons most combat airplanes are painted with gloss-reducing paint; to reduce reflections that might reveal the airplane to observers and might make it more difficult for the pilots to do their jobs being blinded by not only sun but also the reflections.

However, shinemaps don't automatically "make" ships shiney, that depends on what's in the map. Completely black shinemap with zero alpha channel means matte surface. Drop in some RGB intensity for parts that are supposed to have specular reflections, alpha intensity for parts that are flat enough to work as mirrors, like cockpit glass, chromed parts (eurgh) and Star Destroyer bridge/observation deck windows.

As far as I'm concerned, TIE's aren't supposed to be especially shiny compared to rebel ships, they are just cleaner due to better maintenance and Empire's need to look good and scary and effective. But you need to remember that all we've seen is normal mapping with no diffuse or shine maps yet, and just normal maps make the renderer use some universal specular factor, which more then likely makes the renders we're seeing a lot more shiny than the end result is going to be.

If you want examples, open up FS2_Open with normal maps, then go to ship lab, and switch off diffuse and specular maps. You'll end up with ships made of black shiny leather or somesuch matter. So please, let's just let Brand do his thing and let's all argue about how it should have been done when it's ready (and then let the SW conversion team do as they see fit and end up with excellent results). :p
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Gregster2k on July 18, 2008, 12:22:49 pm
Hey as long as the ships look just like I'm playing inside the films I'll be happy :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Droid803 on July 18, 2008, 09:07:06 pm
Hey as long as the ships look just like I'm playing inside the films I'll be happy :D
It could possibly look better. :nod:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on July 18, 2008, 10:39:05 pm
As long by "better" you mean "good-better" not "lucas-better" I'm all for it as well.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Nohg on July 18, 2008, 11:12:16 pm
As long by "better" you mean "good-better" not "lucas-better" I'm all for it as well.

No CGI add-ins :(


I thought that ISD's were gray painted, or are they white and only look gray-ish?  Or do I have render model vs. final product mixed up?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Droid803 on July 19, 2008, 12:37:49 am
Hello, this is all CGI! :P
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 19, 2008, 06:31:01 am
I thought that ISD's were gray painted, or are they white and only look gray-ish?  Or do I have render model vs. final product mixed up?

Gray and white are a matter of contrast, nothing more. Human eyes generally adapt to brightest light source with most even spread of wavelengths as "white" so most likely a star destroyer would appear as "white" to human senses. However, making the texture "white" would most likely create a rather washed out Star Destroyer.

Besides that, ambient occlusion in itself will unavoidable darken occluded parts in the diffuse texture (not really any other way to occlude things eh? Darkened white equals gray... :p), meaning they will be grey in the map - however, human perception will interpret the ship to be of uniform colour and the colour differences between occluded areas will appear to be caused by lighting... which is the whole basis of occlusion mapping. In my opinion, Star Destroyers' base colour should be about the same or possibly a bit darker than the white in X-Wings and Y-Wings, but not really gray. Dulled white is probably a good way to describe it - not really gray, but not the brightest white either.

Incidentally, realistically set up HDR rendering would likely make light grey Star Destroyers look very much white against the contrast of black starfield background. So it's not so much a matter of figuring out the absolute colour of ISD's and applying that to the diffuse map, but rather setting up the diffuse map so that the ISD's look good in-game with the lighting settings that the SW conversion is going to use by default.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Nohg on July 19, 2008, 11:52:19 am
I guess my mind was set on seeing either a porcelain or aluminum ISD :P forgot the concept of shades. :lol:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on July 19, 2008, 12:24:28 pm
As long as we're talking colors, what are our chances of getting a red ISD?

Go-Go-Gadget Booster Terrik!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on July 19, 2008, 11:01:06 pm
Just use texture replacement and you can probably make it rainbow if you want. 
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on July 19, 2008, 11:40:03 pm
OOooooooh... shiny shiny shiny shinyshinyshiny! :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 20, 2008, 12:01:46 am
OOooooooh... shiny shiny shiny shinyshinyshiny! :D

    Yeah if want a red ISD, all you have to do is take the textures and modify them in photoshop or something. If you want red markings, might be a little harder to actually apply it and make it look good. But it's certainly something that anyone can do given access to the proper software.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on July 20, 2008, 05:35:07 am
...it's certainly something that anyone can do given access to the proper software.

These two terms are somewhat self-exlusive. I don't know how much a newer Photoshop costs, but I wouldn't pay that much for it, even if the simplest, dumbest user could learn within weeks how to use it like a professional.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 20, 2008, 10:37:34 am
There are plenty of free alternatives, GIMP and Blender come to mind as alternatives to PS/MAX.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on July 20, 2008, 10:59:54 am
Hell for that kind of editing you could do it in Paint.NET, also free.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on July 20, 2008, 12:20:52 pm
Okay, so it's easy to do in gimp&blender. Where's a basic gimp re-texturing tutorial that'll get me enough practice to do the Venture prop'ly?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 20, 2008, 12:57:24 pm
These two terms are somewhat self-exlusive. I don't know how much a newer Photoshop costs, but I wouldn't pay that much for it, even if the simplest, dumbest user could learn within weeks how to use it like a professional.

      When I said proper software I was mostly referring to something above the level of MS Paint rather than photoshop specifically. Not sure if MS Paint has the ability to adjust the values like that.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 22, 2008, 05:15:16 pm
Latest Render

(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/4331/isdi37uj5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 22, 2008, 05:19:57 pm
Nice. The lines still look slightly weird to me.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 22, 2008, 05:20:48 pm
That's great.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 22, 2008, 06:07:58 pm
I know, ain't it. They just seem like they were drawn with an Etch-A-Sketch. It'll probably look better with textures/glowmaps/other maps.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on July 23, 2008, 04:04:49 am
Nice. The lines still look slightly weird to me.

I'm interested to see how they look like in game. They won't be that visible, especially if you're occupied by evading laser fire.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on July 23, 2008, 07:10:54 am
Looks lovely. :)

Can't wait to be repeatedly vapourised by it. :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 23, 2008, 07:37:57 am
Nice. The lines still look slightly weird to me.

I'm interested to see how they look like in game. They won't be that visible, especially if you're occupied by evading laser fire.

Yes they will, even if you don't pay attention to them. There's a difference.

Besides, laser fire does not evade you, it follows a geodesic trajectory through space-time continuum. Not to mention that evading laser fire would be kinda counterproductive seeing as they want it to hit you rather than evade you anyway. Yes, I know what you meant, but I just couldn't resist the temptation... :p
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 23, 2008, 02:29:36 pm
To quote myself...

Thirdly, the lines themselves on the actual filming model are very prominent (See Here (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/reference/3dscifi_Jedilaw/ISD_MkI/DeastatorHullStructures4compressed.jpg))

Fourthly, I'm using a high edge enhancement filter for the renders, as to show off the detail present in the map.  It gives a very very sharp result.  Using a different filter it's much closer to what you probably remember from the films.  Remember this is a WIP, and so renders of it are going to try and accentuate the work done. 
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: maje on July 23, 2008, 06:23:29 pm
I think that the ISD-I is fine in terms of panel lines and remember that things may look different in game.  By the way, Brand, have you tried test exporting to pof just to see if there are any POF exporter issues?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 23, 2008, 06:44:43 pm
Not yet, no.  the Max POF exporter  doesn't work too well, so I've been told to stay away from it.  As for the other method, I don't have the hard drive space to download 3 or 4 more pieces of modeling software to jump through the hoops neccesary to get it in game.  I'll most likely be waiting for some alternate method, or get someone else to do it for me. 

Someone needs to get collada support done. 

As for the panel lines.  They're traced directly off the original model.  They're accurate.  The normal map is not extreme, it is subtle.  As I've explained a number of times now, and this will be my last explanation of it, the render itself is designed to show the normal map off. 

So stop *****ing everyone.  It's getting annoying.  If you don't like the look of the renders, then tough.  If you can do a better job, then go for it, start from scratch and make your own friggin model.  In fact, go make your own mod, because those who continually complain about all these things, from proportions, to normal map strength, to proper amount of dirt on the diffuse maps, and all those other things, are not the people we want playing this mod.  Go play some other mod and leave us alone if all you have to add is complaints.

That's the last I'll speak of that.  Constructive criticism is fine, but if I give you an answer, then accept it and don't continue to speak on it, as if the more times you complain about something, the more we'll listen to you.  Further ignorant or unwarranted complaints will be met with a simple "Piss off."

End of Story.

And just for the record, that wasn't directed at maje's comment, more towards the general trend of this thread since I started mapping the ISD.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 24, 2008, 07:47:18 am
Updated Render of the bridge

(http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9572/isdi38cg7.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on July 24, 2008, 07:57:08 am
****, the detail!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 24, 2008, 07:58:34 am
It's not done yet either... hehehe
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 24, 2008, 09:22:21 am
This'll look some nice.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: starlord on July 24, 2008, 11:00:50 am
Very impressive.

Simple question, but are you going to include those little lights seen on the movie ISD's all over the hull?
IMO they contribute well to give a feeling of wastness to the vessel.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 24, 2008, 11:41:03 am
Yeah, those are called glowpoints, and they'll be put on a separate texture. Look at the Orion, all those little lights are glowpoints.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on July 24, 2008, 12:02:11 pm
Glowmaps =/= glowpoints.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 24, 2008, 01:10:17 pm
:wtf:

I thought that a glowpoint was the individual light blip on a glowmap.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Shade on July 24, 2008, 01:18:39 pm
Nope. A glowmap is basically a map of the areas that are lit up even when they are in shadow, including the colour etc. So it's not a light as much as something that's lit up. A glowpoint is a light in itself, like the blinking lanterns seen on the front of Omega-class destroyers in TBP for example.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 24, 2008, 01:31:59 pm
In other words, glowmap is a map that makes areas of ship's surface glow based on the RGB value on the texture.

Glow points attach an effect to a point on the model, and the effect has it's own texture.


This total conversion totally rules. :yes:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Spicious on July 25, 2008, 02:26:04 am
Someone needs to get collada support done. 
Care to contribute some models to the cause?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 25, 2008, 04:41:48 am
What do you need?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Spicious on July 25, 2008, 06:59:16 am
Anything that follows the naming scheme (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Collada_Importer#DAE_File_Prerequisites) (which is about to change). Of course, you're welcome to make suggestions about the naming scheme too.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Scourge of Ages on July 28, 2008, 10:49:43 pm
Hey sorry I'm late, I've been unavailable for a couple days.
I just had to say before it didn't make sense:

The proportions are off.


Haha, jk. Seriously, that ship looks spectacular. You need to finish up the mod, and then go model make models for ILM.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on July 29, 2008, 04:24:19 am
I certainly wouldn't mind doing so, they're probably pay me better than you guys do... hehe
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Shade on July 29, 2008, 04:49:14 am
Of course, there's the catch that you might have to model and animate the likes of Jar-Jar Binks. That's a pretty big catch...
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 29, 2008, 07:51:44 am
ILM?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Jeff Vader on July 29, 2008, 07:54:28 am
ILM? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Light_%26_Magic)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: MR_T3D on August 01, 2008, 06:55:22 pm
ILM called: they say you stole their ISD mesh and have brought episode 7 to a grinding halt, possible cancellations





seriously great work
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on August 28, 2008, 05:26:27 pm
Well, been neglecting this thread for a while, so time to post up some updates.  We have a bit more detail on the texture, but more importantly I have something fun to show ya.

I've been experimenting with a technique of lighting the model using the lights it emits on its own, then baking them into a self-illumination (Read: glowmap)

So without further ado:

(http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/9974/isdi39lt0.jpg)
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2476/lightingenginesam9.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 28, 2008, 05:44:57 pm
:yes:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Galemp on August 28, 2008, 08:16:27 pm
Very nice, especially inside the fighterbay.

...but where are the windows?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 28, 2008, 08:25:11 pm
The scale is wrong. It should be longer and pointier.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on August 28, 2008, 10:45:46 pm
The scale is wrong. It should be longer and pointier.

No, it's too long and pointy. It should be shorter and wider.

That is, without a doubt, one of the awesomer things I've seen all day.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on August 29, 2008, 04:02:18 am
I'm sorry, in the future I'll make it less pointy and long.  I'll also fix the problems with it being too short and fat. =P
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on August 29, 2008, 09:04:52 am
Honestly guys, the first time someone made a sarcastic comment about that after we said to knock it off, it was a little funny.  It gets exponentially less funny every time afterwards.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 29, 2008, 09:08:50 am
I have to agree the joke is getting blown out of proportions.


...:nervous:


The lighting looks great. In fact I would say that no one who isn't familiar with FS2_Open lighting capabilities will be able to tell if it's dynamic or baked in lighting, but then again i's hard to make that kind of statement from a single shot from relatively great distance.

Could we see how the fighterbay looks close-up, like we were approacing it?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Col. Fishguts on August 29, 2008, 09:49:20 am
The baked lighting on the engines and hangar bay looks great, the one in the side trenches not so much, it's a bit too strong/accentuated compared to what we see on the studio model. But that's just my $0.02.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on August 29, 2008, 12:41:08 pm
Like this (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/media/screenshots/Capships/Star_Destroyers/ISD/Archive3/hangarcloseup.jpg)?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on August 29, 2008, 12:50:12 pm
Yikes. That's a lot of detail.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on August 29, 2008, 04:08:55 pm
Yeah the lights on the side aren't final.  They're just placeholders for now, so you'll see more accurate lighting when I get that area textured.

Here's the hangar closeup as requested:
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4838/hangarrenderyc4.jpg)

That area is also still untextured, and I haven't made the claw yet.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: starlord on August 30, 2008, 04:00:31 am
I still wounder how only 2 turrets in that area can defend an isd. It must mostly rely on fighters to protect that portion.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on August 30, 2008, 04:06:21 am
Most of the Imperial Navy is designed as such:

Can a fighter hurt it?  No?  Then don't bother protecting against them.

The entire Imperial navy is pretty much built around the idea that fighters aren't worth much at all
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on August 30, 2008, 05:07:33 am
The entire Imperial navy is pretty much built around the idea that fighters aren't worth much at all
Which makes this game a lot more fighter-centric, I guess.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 30, 2008, 06:05:23 am
Heh, Imperial Navy would then be much like the Parlamentary Vasudan Navy in the regards that both had a swarm fighter used and sacrificed in great numbers just to harass the enemy and force some of their fighters to be assigned to space superiority rather than assault roles.

Drawing a tangent from fighters and Imperial navy doctrines to game balance...

I remember reading from some EU sources that when the X-Wing  was introduced and before the TIE Interceptor came along and all the imps had was TIE/ln's, the TIE pilots quickly learned to avoid engaging X-Wings unless they had at least four to one numerical advantage (in fact if they didn't have that much advantage they usually chose to flee, to the ire of their superiors...), so I suppose as far as balancing goes, X-Wing should be made a match for three and a half TIE/ln's of same skill level, statistically so that if four AI TIE's engage a single X-Wing, approximately half of the engagements the X-Wing is destroyed and half of the engagements it survives. Perhaps even including this... evasive behaviour in a TIE/ln AI module that makes them avoid engaging X-Wings unless absolutely necessary, if they don't have sufficient numerical advantage and if their AI level is low enough.

With humans in controls the situation becomes entirely different of course. I suppose making the TIE an eggshell with limited speed and offensive capability but good maneuverability is a true and tried choice, but at the same time I really would like to see an X-Wing that doesn't maneuver like a train like in the X-Wing series of games* (and an Y-Wing that doesn't maneuver like a train wreck)... but I suppose I can trust in the Force the team members to make the gameplay fun and balanced and looking much like the combat in the BoE. ;7


*I know they fly much like trains (and train wrecks) in A New Hope - TIE's included, but I would want to reason that being because of the limited special effects technology compared to the Return of the Jedi.

/offtopic.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on August 30, 2008, 02:24:28 pm
The Balancing is something we went through.  TIE Fighters and the original run of X-Wings (They were later upgraded)  will be about on par performance wise, with the TIE having the slight edge in maneuverability and speed, but the X-Wing has its shields.  Whether it be Return of the Jedi, A New Hope, or even Empire strikes back, TIEs are still deadly, and we're not going to have them as cannon fodder the same way many other games have.  Remember that our first and primary reference is the movies themselves, where TIEs regularily hold their own against the rebels.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on August 30, 2008, 02:38:37 pm
Yeah, the TIEs definitely took down a large score of rebel pilots.  On harder difficulties, even two TIEs will probably be more than a match for an X-wing.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on August 30, 2008, 04:05:28 pm
And an updated WIP image here:

(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5249/isdi41jk5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: MR_T3D on August 30, 2008, 08:35:22 pm
wow :eek2:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on August 30, 2008, 10:27:43 pm
Must be an older model it's starting to grow a beard.........  :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: LordMelvin on August 31, 2008, 09:02:12 pm
I'd like to second Mr_T3D's statement of a few posts back.
wow :eek2:
Double-plus-wow.

The one question still on my mind: will it come in red?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on August 31, 2008, 09:03:53 pm
I'm pretty sure he said there will be an NRSD EV.  Just leave it at that :)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 01, 2008, 05:40:15 am
Updated Render:

(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4923/isdi42wu6.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 01, 2008, 05:46:23 am
Nice.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: MR_T3D on September 01, 2008, 12:49:40 pm
It's like a loading bar for awsomeness :pimp:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Aardwolf on September 01, 2008, 08:59:25 pm
Did that fighterbay just get quite a bit smaller in those last two screenshots?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 01, 2008, 09:15:39 pm
Did that fighterbay just get quite a bit smaller in those last two screenshots?

Like this (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/media/screenshots/Capships/Star_Destroyers/ISD/hangarcloseup.jpg)?

...the image in Chief's post:

(http://swc.fs2downloads.com/media/screenshots/Capships/Star_Destroyers/ISD/hangarcloseup.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 02, 2008, 05:12:11 am
Trust me, the geometry of the ISD has not changed at all in about a month.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on September 02, 2008, 05:46:58 am
Did that fighterbay just get quite a bit smaller in those last two screenshots?
No, the bit in the last two screenshots is the bit just in front of the big main hangar thing.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Aardwolf on September 02, 2008, 07:14:23 pm
My internet was running slowly and I didn't want to have to let it load another page worth of images. Forgive me.

Pretty cool looking :yes:
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 03, 2008, 03:08:07 pm
Updated render:

(http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/4556/isdi44wu1.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 03, 2008, 03:58:31 pm
And just cause I've wanted to do this for a while:

(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6672/openingscenehj5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on September 03, 2008, 04:55:42 pm
And just cause I've wanted to do this for a while:

It's missing something.  Can't quite put my finger on it...
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on September 03, 2008, 07:01:44 pm
Bumper sticker perhaps?   :D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: aRaven on September 03, 2008, 07:48:55 pm
...such as

"WE BRAKE FOR NOBODY"

:D
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on September 03, 2008, 08:25:07 pm
I was thinking of something that looked a little more like

(http://swc.fs2downloads.com/media/screenshots/Capships/Corvette/vette28.jpg)

But the bumper sticker works too.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 04, 2008, 03:55:17 am
Ask Turambar.  If I have to wait much longer to put that thing in my scene I might just make it myself hehe
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 04, 2008, 06:54:30 pm
Another update.  Removed the lighting for this render just to get it more like the original scene.
And yes, the AA does suck, but I can't be bothered to re-render with higher settings.

(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8024/isdi45of6.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 04, 2008, 09:14:23 pm
I think it looks drool-worthy.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 05, 2008, 05:36:51 am
And just an overall update on where we're at on the map:

(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1897/isdi46vw9.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: MR_T3D on September 05, 2008, 02:35:04 pm
 :shaking: :shaking:

WOW that will be amazing.

glad i am going to be ungrading my rig
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Mongoose on September 06, 2008, 12:04:28 am
You are the greeble master, my friend.  :yes:

(Yes, I realize those aren't technically greebles.  No, I don't care.)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on September 06, 2008, 12:39:30 am
Yeah, he's a pretty normal type of guy I'd say.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 06, 2008, 04:04:13 am
Which is, of course, funny because my computer can't handle the normal maps in FS. 

I find it ironic that i've spent so many hours working on things which I won't even be able to see heh.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: TopAce on September 06, 2008, 04:29:05 am
You can always give it to one of the staff and ask to take some screenshots.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: colecampbell666 on September 07, 2008, 02:44:55 pm
Which is, of course, funny because my computer can't handle the normal maps in FS. 

I find it ironic that i've spent so many hours working on things which I won't even be able to see heh.
Refuse to release the ISD unless you get a new PC.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Snail on September 07, 2008, 03:00:54 pm
Just one question, will Dark's PVD Cobra reskin work on this? :P
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on September 07, 2008, 05:41:29 pm
Which is, of course, funny because my computer can't handle the normal maps in FS. 

I find it ironic that i've spent so many hours working on things which I won't even be able to see heh.
Refuse to release the ISD unless you get a new PC.

Shut it, don't give him ideas.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Mongoose on September 07, 2008, 08:33:59 pm
Set up a "Pimp brandx0's box!" donation drive?
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 11, 2008, 12:02:15 am
Set up a "Pimp brandx0's box!" donation drive?

     If brandx0 had a box I don't think he'd want a pimp anywhere near it.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Raiden on September 11, 2008, 01:22:37 pm
Another update.  Removed the lighting for this render just to get it more like the original scene.
And yes, the AA does suck, but I can't be bothered to re-render with higher settings.

(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8024/isdi45of6.jpg)
That's quality man, I love it. Any chance you could give us another shot of it a bit further back? Amazing that it looks so massive but it's only just got to the main hanger!
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on September 11, 2008, 02:00:45 pm
I would love to see what the captain sees when he looks out of the bridge over the ship.  Perhaps while trying to shoot down GR-75s fleeing Hoth...
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 11, 2008, 02:20:41 pm
Hehe, I'll get another shot of the bottom from further back when I have more mapping done there.  I stopped just at the hangar because that's roughly about where the mapping stops.

As for Chief's request, I'll see what I can do
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 15, 2008, 10:30:48 pm
Okay I got a miscellaneous question which pertains to the ISD but is more general.
Re: Detail boxes, am I correct in assuming that, basically, they're like LODs except, unlike LODs, rather than the whole model either being detailed or not, instead the "detail box" objects are either visible or not visible depending on the player's position to them? So for example, if there were detail boxes all over the ISD, and the player was approaching from the front, it's possible that . there are detail box details visible on the bow of the ship, but not visible or turned-on at the aft of the ship?

Is this how they work??
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: chief1983 on September 16, 2008, 12:09:53 am
Mostly right.  They're on/off based on a distance from them.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: DaBrain on September 16, 2008, 12:25:45 pm
A word of advice. If you're going use detail boxes, for this model or another, try to keep the number of detail boxes low.
Not the polycount(!) The polycount is less of a problem.

Just make sure not to set up each small detail, as separate detail box. Hundreds of them would be pretty bad for the performanc, but something like twenty or maybe even fourty should be fine for a ship of this size.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Admiral_Stones on September 16, 2008, 02:26:28 pm
I would love to see what the captain sees when he looks out of the bridge over the ship.  Perhaps while trying to shoot down GR-75s fleeing Hoth...

Captain: "I'll have fun watching this A-Wing getting toasted by our shields!"
Commander: "Sir, our shields are down! I repeat, Shields are down!"
Captain, blankly staring at the A-Wing: "Holy Mother of God."
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 19, 2008, 03:55:52 am
I would love to see what the captain sees when he looks out of the bridge over the ship.  Perhaps while trying to shoot down GR-75s fleeing Hoth...

Captain: "I'll have fun watching this A-Wing getting toasted by our shields!"
Commander: "Sir, our shields are down! I repeat, Shields are down!"
Captain, blankly staring at the A-Wing: "Holy Mother of God."

I know it'll be gone when talk like a pirate day is over, but I felt like quoting it for hilarity so it lives on past tomorrow

EDIT: Aw, it's gone.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 26, 2008, 02:42:11 pm
And another WIP update.

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4539/isdi47rf0.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: brandx0 on September 26, 2008, 08:47:40 pm
Closeup of the newer sections (plus some more added detail)

(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4761/isdi50an4.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 26, 2008, 09:03:25 pm
The docking bay is nice.
Title: Re: Imperial-I Star Destroyer
Post by: Vidmaster on September 30, 2008, 09:28:58 am
hell, it's a ImpStar, it has to look awesome  :lol:

Great job so far  :)