My money is on the UE, because unless I miss my guess, ALPHA ONE is on their side.OR...
Bah, I hate Deus Ex Machina.Then go play INFR1.
Uhh, go play Deus Ex Machina (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Deus_Ex_Machina) again?
A loss of communication leads to disaster
There are Vasudans involved
There are Vasudans involved
EXTRA BUMPY VASUDANS!
(referring to the overexaggerated bump map)
The UE could get defeated and Alpha 1 goes on to lead a resistance movement.
or Alpha 1 DIES at the end of the campaign!
AND YES, THERE IS ALREADY ONE CAMPAIGN WHERE THE PLAYER DIES AT THE END, SO THAT'S DEFINITLY POSSIBLE!!!
or Alpha 1 DIES at the end of the campaign!I think he means the canon campaign...
AND YES, THERE IS ALREADY ONE CAMPAIGN WHERE THE PLAYER DIES AT THE END, SO THAT'S DEFINITLY POSSIBLE!!!
Obviously, Goober knew what he was doing back in DEM. :D
I wonder if there will be any subspace wars.And the subspace node collapses again?
When I played the campaign, in the last mission the Karuna actually reduced the Raynor destroyer (forget the name)'s hull to 63% and did a lot of damage to the other capships before being destroyed
The Karuna is definitely a tough nut to crack from what I've gathered. I sure hope the rest of the UE isn't that hard . . . :nervous:
To clarify, it's mainly the cruisers and karunas that spit out over nine thousand blobs...larger ships are geared towards anti-capital ship combat and tend to spam less.So basically you have cruisers geared towards point defense, and destroyers geared to focus on anti-cap combat.
So basically you have cruisers geared towards point defense, and destroyers geared to focus on anti-cap combat.
Given time it will spew over 9000.No, then it'll break the game.
So :P to you too.
It won't when 8888 of the projectile's lifetimes have already expired when the remaining ones come out.Well there won't be OVER 9000!!! simultaneously.
Well Im pretty sure if that were possible your graphics card would cry if you looked at them allBlobs aren't that resource intensive unless they use 262144*262144 .tga textures.
My money is on the UE, because unless I miss my guess, ALPHA ONE is on their side.
Earth is the hub of humanity's intellect and greatest assets. Surely after the first Great War, they would have captured Shivan vessels and acquired some of there technology. Nonetheless, I believe War in Heaven will be a worthy successor to AoA. I trust in Darius.Well, after 32+ years of galactic expansion I assume the GTVA would have grown a lot more than an isolated capital world which was probably reliant on its outlying colony systems. And the Lucifer went boom. No Shivan vessels/technology to aquire.
Well, after 32+ years of galactic expansion I assume the GTVA would have grown a lot more than an isolated capital world which was probably reliant on its outlying colony systems. And the Lucifer went boom. No Shivan vessels/technology to aquire.
Even so, as mentioned by a member earlier, Earth is unique because it inherently has a greater abundance of resources than all other colonies combined.
And the Lucifer went boom. No Shivan vessels/technology to aquire.But it would be logical that before the Sol node(s) collapsed the GTA would sent anything the capture form the Shivans to Sol for study (well... apart from the Taranis and that Azrael that was borded in the cutscene).
Railguns could even be a supersized Shivan Mega Laser for all we know. ;)
Railguns could even be a supersized Shivan Mega Laser for all we know. ;)
The Shivan Mega Laser could be a railgun, for all we know. After all if it is a laser it is breaking several major laws of physics (something to do with the fact that light travels at the speed of light)
Heh . . . if it comes to Halo, I'll preferably take the Covenant plasma cannons and capital ship shielding like the Lucifer. Hmmm, actually I might incorporate that into . . .
Still, MAC rounds are actually projectiles IIRC, so the FS railguns would be more like the Covenant's plasma railguns. :)
MAC guns sound pretty heavy duty though. They sound alot like Gauss Rifles, tbh.
And how would someone accelerate a cloud of superheated gas on a track of rails?Magnets? :confused:
And how would someone accelerate a cloud of superheated gas on a track of rails?
A railgun is a purely electrical gun that accelerates a conductive projectile along a pair of metal rails using the same principles as the homopolar motor.
Plasma Rail gun.... right....You can use accumulator rings, but then it would be more like a particle accelerator cannon. ;)
And how would someone accelerate a cloud of superheated gas on a track of rails?
Or is it actually a projectile weapon that fires bullets with plasma inside a hard shell?
Not to mention is freaking scary. The original Broadsides that came in squads of 3 weren;t very scary, but after the patch, watching a pair of Broadsides chew up Space Marines like they were Imp Guards is frightening.
The railguns that the Tau use in DoW seem to fire a beam, then the projectile travels down the beam.
That was in Dark Crusade right? Luckily in Soulstorm Broadsides are pretty easy to kill.Not really ... my Broadside took down about 9 Space Marines. Granted, they weren't upgraded, but still ..
I found it quite amusing to see on the titles of some DoW multiplayer games "No Tau." Fire Warrior massing is like the most annoying thing in the universe. :lol:I don't see whats so annoying, tbh. My friend tried that on me, and I just dropped in Flayed Ones and the Fire Warriors dropped like flies.
How does that work? :confused:Watch the Broadsides fire in Dark Crusade. It looks kinda like a guiding beam that the shell uses to travel to its target. Like the UCS plasma cannon superweapon in Earth 2140 series, which fires a plasma beam, which does nothing, merely transporting its payload of bombs down the beam.
How does that work?You'd have to ask the ones that did the animations for DoW to be sure.
Watch the Broadsides fire in Dark Crusade. It looks kinda like a guiding beam that the shell uses to travel to its target. Like the UCS plasma cannon superweapon in Earth 2140 series, which fires a plasma beam, which does nothing, merely transporting its payload of bombs down the beam.
Sounds like a good idea. Just remember, try not to make capital ships not too powerful: even Alpha 1 has his limits! ;)
I'd like to see some weapons' system work like the Battlestar Galactica' flak. Say what you want about the series', but the weapons are very well done. Basically, the shells are high explosives filled with shrapnel, exploding in 'Airburst' patterns, very much like the tip of a watergun.
The fields of explosions you see over the Battlestar are just 'flak-fields', impossible for fighters, missiles or other to pass through.
So what I'd like to see, would be that capships have rows of the weapons, activating them when hostile objects comes to a ~1500m range. The weapon would have an effect at some ~500m from the hull. The ship proceeds to just shoot wildly towards the enemies, making an impassable field of fire for the hostile to attack through with anything but small missiles and gunfire. As a counter, fighters are forced to shoot out the flak turrets themselves. I assume capship weapons' fire can't damage their own hull or subsystems, so I think it'd be replicated nicely enough.
Could a coder call my bull****, or what do you think?
And you also get MASSSSSSSIVE LAG + crash due to too many objects at once.
How fun.
I think UEF railguns will make for some awesome heavy broadside attacks considering that's the Solarius's primary role. Some sort of particle effect would give it something to make up for the lack of eye-candy you get from beamz, ;) the flashy projectiles are good.
I'm not really bothered with the no beam concept when they have these ultra sexy fighters. ;7
Beams are hard to aim. Crossing someone's T is a lot harder to do with beams since they are set into the hull and don't have that much of a fire arc. With turreted railguns however, the UEF has much more options for aiming then the GTVA. A railgun turret mounted dorsally can attack to both sides and vertically, whereas the beam would be able to attack only vertically. Also, how do ranges compare between railguns and beams? Are railguns longer-ranged on average? If so, then the UEF can attack from outside beam range and get an important alpha strike in, and possibly kite GTVA ships if they are faster. However, sniping beam turrets will result in an easy UEF win since the GTVA has little else in the way of anti-cap firepower. Snipe their beams, snipe their engines, demand their surrender, and then blow them up if they are stupid and keep fighting.
Beams are hard to aim. Crossing someone's T is a lot harder to do with beams since they are set into the hull and don't have that much of a fire arc. With turreted railguns however, the UEF has much more options for aiming then the GTVA. A railgun turret mounted dorsally can attack to both sides and vertically, whereas the beam would be able to attack only vertically. Also, how do ranges compare between railguns and beams? Are railguns longer-ranged on average? If so, then the UEF can attack from outside beam range and get an important alpha strike in, and possibly kite GTVA ships if they are faster. However, sniping beam turrets will result in an easy UEF win since the GTVA has little else in the way of anti-cap firepower. Snipe their beams, snipe their engines, demand their surrender, and then blow them up if they are stupid and keep fighting.
It's a sad fact that beams are actually way more accurate than railguns. They hardly ever miss (except for slashers) and they have no travel time.
Darius has mentioned a few times that GTVA capital ships are, overall, slightly superior to their UEF counterparts, which I really like.
Sniping beam turrets could just as easily be sniping railgun turrets.
since the GTVA has little else in the way of anti-cap firepower.Not quiete.
So the UEF has no advantages aside from having Alpha One on their side? Not that that matters really since Alpha One is on their side.
If the UEF ships were anything like the way they were originally released it would only take one bomber to be able to take down a Raynor. :p
You wouldn't need Alpha One for that.
It wouldn't be much fun if the GTVA suddenly became a group of incompetent, tactically inept jokes -- they have to be menacing and skilled, just as they were when Sam was part of their ranks.You mean the great Command that had the best idea ever:
If the UEF ships were anything like the way they were originally released it would only take one bomber to be able to take down a Raynor. :p
You wouldn't need Alpha One for that.
Wait, huh? The Raynor is a GTVA ship.
You might mean a Karuna? The Renjian was a Karuna.
I think he's talking about the Saracen bomber :nervous:
EDIT: or the Durga as it's called in BP apparently
QuoteIt wouldn't be much fun if the GTVA suddenly became a group of incompetent, tactically inept jokes -- they have to be menacing and skilled, just as they were when Sam was part of their ranks.You mean the great Command that had the best idea ever:
Here we have the biggest and most powerfull Shivan ship ever encountered.... What shall we do?
Oh yeah, lets send out the Colossus and ONE bomber wing.
What? No.... why should we send out a figther wing to cover the bombers from enemy interceptors? As if the Shivans ever tried shooting down our bombers...
Besides we only have more than 100 fighters on board the Colossus, we really can't afford to send more than the 4 bombers.
Or the great tactical decision to let an Orion slow down the Satanas.... an Orion that's taken out by the first salvo, before they even manage to finish the sentence about the damage to the ship.
That's like trying to slow down a tank by putting a bike in the way...
You mean those skilled and menecing GTVA tacticians?
Come to think of it, it is more than just a small wonder the Humans survived two wars with the Shivans....
Edit: Sorry for my spelling, but I'm just too tired to correct it today... maybe tomorrow...
Point is Command is a bunch of morons. While nowhere near as bad as in JAD, they still make some pretty stupid blunders.
Point is Command is a bunch of morons. While nowhere near as bad as in JAD, they still make some pretty stupid blunders.
What had happened to the good, smart Command we all know from FS1 . . . :sigh:
Point is Command is a bunch of morons. While nowhere near as bad as in JAD, they still make some pretty stupid blunders.
What had happened to the good, smart Command we all know from FS1 . . . :sigh:
I used a Thor alone to destroy a Lucifer just for the hell of it, a Saracen would easily obliterate a RaynorAre you so sure about that?
Point is Command is a bunch of morons. While nowhere near as bad as in JAD, they still make some pretty stupid blunders.
And yes, the UEF does has one singular advantage. It is simply kickass. Kickass fighters (from what I saw in the vid it looked like his fighter had more firepower than an Erinyes), kickass weapons (nothing can beat ballistic weapons and the flying pieces of metal they shoot when it comes to awesome), and the kickass fighter pilot known as Alpha One. The guy pretending to be Alpha One, Samuel Bei, (the original Alpha One is still somewhere in the Sol system single-handedly fighting off wings of Shivan Dragons with nothing but a Hercules, a few rolls of duct tape, and a Centaur support ship that shows up intermittently) is pretty cool himself though.
And you were right, the Phoenicia really is a Hecate. I never really saw anything other than debris from it before.The Phoenecia's technically supposed to survive every time, since it has a make-invulnerable event placed on it in the actual mission file. The trouble is, the Sathanas deals out damage so quickly that it sometimes manages to go up before that event even fires.
But the really strange thing is, before it ALWAYS got destroyed, not even being able to finish the sound-file about the massive damange, but when I just checked, it managed to jump out at 3% hull.
Yes, very sure. I could even take the Sathanas out facing it head-on.QuoteI used a Thor alone to destroy a Lucifer just for the hell of it, a Saracen would easily obliterate a RaynorAre you so sure about that?
I don't know the bomber you talk about, but a Raynor is far better than a Lucifer when it comes to fighter/bomber defence.
I'd even go so far to say the Lucifer is one of the worst cap-ships of all when it comes to fighter defense... No AAA beams, no flaks and a lot of blind spots and those few blob-turrets it has, have both slow refiringrate and "projectile" speed.
The Raynor on the other hand has AAAs, flaks, and fast-firing blob-turrets. Besides it has a lot more turrets than a Lucifer.
The Phoenecia's technically supposed to survive every time, since it has a make-invulnerable event placed on it in the actual mission file. The trouble is, the Sathanas deals out damage so quickly that it sometimes manages to go up before that event even fires.
If the UEF ships were anything like the way they were originally released it would only take one bomber to be able to take down a Raynor. :p
You wouldn't need Alpha One for that.
Point is Command is a bunch of morons. While nowhere near as bad as in JAD, they still make some pretty stupid blunders.
And yes, the UEF does has one singular advantage. It is simply kickass. Kickass fighters (from what I saw in the vid it looked like his fighter had more firepower than an Erinyes), kickass weapons (nothing can beat ballistic weapons and the flying pieces of metal they shoot when it comes to awesome), and the kickass fighter pilot known as Alpha One. The guy pretending to be Alpha One, Samuel Bei, (the original Alpha One is still somewhere in the Sol system single-handedly fighting off wings of Shivan Dragons with nothing but a Hercules, a few rolls of duct tape, and a Centaur support ship that shows up intermittently) is pretty cool himself though.
Your DAMMNNNN RIGHT!!!!
-
P.S. BP Team, why so much Supreme Commander stuff? The .ani's, the main menu, the UEF, etc.Because the .anis fit.
There's no BP team; it's just Darius and two people doing voice acting coordination who don't really count (me and Rian.) He gave us badges because he is magnanimous.
The anis were used because around the same time I was making the campaign I was playing around with some of the files of Supcom and used some of their files to practice ani creation.
The UEF because...coincidence really. That and seemingly all acronyms to describe an Earth alliance had already been taken in one universe or another.There's no BP team; it's just Darius and two people doing voice acting coordination who don't really count (me and Rian.) He gave us badges because he is magnanimous.
I'm giving badges to people who contribute material towards Blue Planet. You and Rian count because you've been organising the Voice Acting. I'm going to assign more out to people who have been making material specifically for the campaign as well.
Yeah, I do remember thinking that Blowfish had done some work
The fact that Darius has been able to do this astounding campaign all on his own is surely a testament to the power of "Get off your ass and do something".
The fact that Darius has been able to do this astounding campaign all on his own is surely a testament to the power of "Get off your ass and do something".
Heh, just look at me. 3 months pass and all I've done is 4 fully completed missions.
Darius really has determination and motivation.
:bump:
I got a question to Darius regarding the UE...
Since it has been established that Earth was sealed off from the rest of the Universe during the end of the Great War we must assume that Earth (unless another form of travel has been invented) had nowhere to go and was confined to their own solar system, Sol. So that's one system versus at least 10+ systems, and in that regard UE looses badly to the GTVA in terms of resources available. Even if Sol was loaded with resources...
And we must also assume that Sol is pretty much depleted of resources given the fact that most if it must have gone into the Great War and all the time before it. So here we are 60 years after the end of the Great War and they suddenly find themselves under attack from the GTVA. How do you explain them being able to afford a fleet capable of withstanding the GTVA?
Sol does not have the same amount of resources or population as the GTVA, and frankly the GTVA could just throw out a propaganda campaign to make the UE look like aggressors.
this and MORE will be revealed on BLUE PLANET - WIH! (hopefully)
:doubt: I don't buy any of those explanations for a simple reason. Which neither have covered. Sol does not have the same amount of resources or population as the GTVA, and frankly the GTVA could just throw out a propaganda campaign to make the UE look like aggressors. And we have seen how useful blockades are in face of superior numbers made up of superior ships, so If the GTVA really wants to take Sol it wouldn't be much more than a fight of attrition, which is one the UE stands no chance of winning.
BP has shown the UE as a faction fully capable of building entire fleets much superior to the Great War fleets, which again, due to lack of resources is bullocks if all the UE has access to is Sol... So I'd like Darius to explain how UE suddenly has the resources to be a faction capable of fending off the GTVA... Don't get me wrong here, if the UE isn't then there is no real story to present, but it better have a really good and plausible explanation to show for.
Sol does not have the same amount of resources or population as the GTVA, and frankly the GTVA could just throw out a propaganda campaign to make the UE look like aggressors.
the propaganda thing you can start putting your signature there... it gonna happen, both sides will want to be seen as the good guys, that will determine the winner.
about having the same amount of resources you are right, but how much developed are the means of extracting those resources and how much has been discovered... well I think sol wins by far there. (and sol has a large asteroid belt to get resources from... Inferno saga of solar wars exploits this fact quite good)
Please cite a source that indicates Sol has a smaller population or resources than the GTVA.
Capella was a densely populated system by GTVA standards yet it had mere millions. If anything, the evidence is that Sol has greater population and more developed infrastructure than the rest of the GTVA.
BP has shown the UE as a faction fully capable of building entire fleets much superior to the Great War fleets, which again, due to lack of resources is bullocks if all the UE has access to is Sol... So I'd like Darius to explain how UE suddenly has the resources to be a faction capable of fending off the GTVA... Don't get me wrong here, if the UE isn't then there is no real story to present, but it better have a really good and plausible explanation to show for.They don't need squat, they just need what they have plus the people in the GTVA that defects. :rolleyes:
The lightspeed thing is a plot hole. Best fanwank I can come up with is that GTVA ships don't have the life support capacity for journeys that long without replenishment...urgh, kinda weak.
Anyway, the UEF in War in Heaven has been suggested to be at a military disadvantage compared to the GTVA (in spite of a probably larger population and infrastructure). So don't worry about it too much, Spectre, it sounds like Darius has it covered.
BP has shown the UE as a faction fully capable of building entire fleets much superior to the Great War fleets, which again, due to lack of resources is bullocks if all the UE has access to is Sol... So I'd like Darius to explain how UE suddenly has the resources to be a faction capable of fending off the GTVA... Don't get me wrong here, if the UE isn't then there is no real story to present, but it better have a really good and plausible explanation to show for.They don't need squat, they just need what they have plus the people in the GTVA that defects. :rolleyes:
Their resources are added from those defectors and whatever explotiations they give them.
The lightspeed thing is a plot hole. Best fanwank I can come up with is that GTVA ships don't have the life support capacity for journeys that long without replenishment...urgh, kinda weak.
Anyway, the UEF in War in Heaven has been suggested to be at a military disadvantage compared to the GTVA (in spite of a probably larger population and infrastructure). So don't worry about it too much, Spectre, it sounds like Darius has it covered.
Yes, extremely weak given the presence of the Sanctuary, which survived without Earth for 50 years! The journey I presented would take 16 years... even at 1/10 of c it would still only be 40 years...BP has shown the UE as a faction fully capable of building entire fleets much superior to the Great War fleets, which again, due to lack of resources is bullocks if all the UE has access to is Sol... So I'd like Darius to explain how UE suddenly has the resources to be a faction capable of fending off the GTVA... Don't get me wrong here, if the UE isn't then there is no real story to present, but it better have a really good and plausible explanation to show for.They don't need squat, they just need what they have plus the people in the GTVA that defects. :rolleyes:
Their resources are added from those defectors and whatever explotiations they give them.
Poor argumenting at work... People aren't material you know...
Anyway I asked Darius about this, and thus I'll await his answer...
The Shivans need to be replaced.It would be nice to fight more modern Shivans. :nod:
The original GTW-5 Prometheus S was removed from service when the link to Earth was lost and the GTVA was unable to obtain sufficient quantities of argon (a required element in the Prometheus's power-generation module). Recent deployment of Anuket and Zephyrus gas miners has enabled us to resume production of the GTW-5 Prometheus S. The S-type is a minor variant of the original Prometheus laser cannon. The S-type's faster recharge cycle and lower energy drain cause many pilots to prefer it over the R variant.
:blah: Except the retrofit and later standard (pretty much equal to original) weren't all that sucky as you try to make them. They at least have range advantage. But that is of little relevance as we all know that GTVA has access to Shivan technology. I'm not sure you can't say the same for Sol. But I'll leave that to Darius, as it was after all he I asked for and not you guys.. :rolleyes:
Since it has been established that Earth was sealed off from the rest of the Universe during the end of the Great War we must assume that Earth (unless another form of travel has been invented) had nowhere to go and was confined to their own solar system, Sol. So that's one system versus at least 10+ systems, and in that regard UE looses badly to the GTVA in terms of resources available. Even if Sol was loaded with resources...
And we must also assume that Sol is pretty much depleted of resources given the fact that most if it must have gone into the Great War and all the time before it. So here we are 60 years after the end of the Great War and they suddenly find themselves under attack from the GTVA. How do you explain them being able to afford a fleet capable of withstanding the GTVA?
Actually, the Galactic Terrans are Italy, Earth is Greece, and the year is 1940 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War).Then who the hell are the Vasudans?
I don't really buy the whole deal of neglect of strike crafts within the GTVA. If anything FS2 proves the opposite here. Take the Erinyes, Perseus, or Pegasus as an example. The only real advantage I can see the UE has is that it can deploy all of it's forces to one theater while the GTVA might only be able to deploy a couple of fleets as they have vastly more territory to cover. So maybe I could be able to fight a defensive war, but going on the offensive? Hardly.
Given your response I assume that UE does not have access to any other star system, right?
Actually, the Galactic Terrans are Italy, Earth is Greece, and the year is 1940 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War).
Actually, the Galactic Terrans are Italy, Earth is Greece, and the year is 1940 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War).Then who be the Nazis?
Anyway, I can't see the point of GTVA's military invasion to Sol with apparent reconquest in 'high command' minds, other than those minds are mean beyond all comprehension ;7
Anyway, I can't see the point of GTVA's military invasion to Sol with apparent reconquest in 'high command' minds, other than those minds are mean beyond all comprehension ;7Simple answer; symbolism. Earth is the cradle of humanity, the home of all humans. The main reason that I could see for the recapture of Earth for the GTVA would that recapturing Earth would make a powerful statement to the rest of the GTVA, like "Hey, us Terrans? We've got our home back!"
Although once they discover that the UEF is rather benevolent
Relatively anyway, as far as we know for now.
Well we haven't been told a lot about the UEF so really we're basing this on nothing. The GTVA wouldn't have sent a strike force in unless something the UEF did or had seriously scared them IMO....Well, the GTVA did go in with the mindset to conquer.
Well we haven't been told a lot about the UEF so really we're basing this on nothing. The GTVA wouldn't have sent a strike force in unless something the UEF did or had seriously scared them IMO....Well, the GTVA did go in with the mindset to conquer.
Well we haven't been told a lot about the UEF so really we're basing this on nothing. The GTVA wouldn't have sent a strike force in unless something the UEF did or had seriously scared them IMO....Well, the GTVA did go in with the mindset to conquer.
But WHY did they want to conquer? Some kind of gain obviously, it's a much less strain on resources to remain allies etc than full on invading them. So either the UEF presented themselves as hostile or the UEF/Sol System has something the GTVA wants IMO...
the other half is ... nasty?I always saw it as governed in a similar style to the United States.
the motives for the high council are a mystery,but I would bet on that one... it's a logical option given the past decisions taken by them.
Hey by the way what kind of government is the GTVA anyway?? is it like a pseudo Empire.. or a Republic kind or so??
I always saw it as governed in a similar style to the United States.
The Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance (GTVA) was formed in 2345, ten years after the Great War. This treaty organization recognized the autonomy of its constituents as it provided a framework for trade and mutual defense. The Great War had transformed the enmity between Terrans and Vasudans into a lasting fellowship.
As the industry and economy of the Terran-Vasudan systems recovered, support for a more powerful GTVA gained momentum. In 2358, delegates signed into existence the Beta Aquilae Convention (BETAC), named after the system where the constitution was drafted and ratified. BETAC dismantled the governments of the Terran blocs and recognized the General Assembly, the Security Council, and the Vasudan Imperium as the supreme authorities of Terran-Vasudan space.
A-ha, that explains it.
Sol is a part of Terran-Vasudan space; it always has been. BETAC makes it such that the only legitimate authority in every system controlled by a Terran or Vasudan falls under the control of the GTVA. As the UEF are not the GTVA, their control of Sol is unlawful as per BETAC.
A-ha, that explains it.
Sol is a part of Terran-Vasudan space; it always has been. BETAC makes it such that the only legitimate authority in every system controlled by a Terran or Vasudan falls under the control of the GTVA. As the UEF are not the GTVA, their control of Sol is unlawful as per BETAC.
A-ha, that explains it.
Sol is a part of Terran-Vasudan space; it always has been. BETAC makes it such that the only legitimate authority in every system controlled by a Terran or Vasudan falls under the control of the GTVA. As the UEF are not the GTVA, their control of Sol is unlawful as per BETAC.
Excellent point. Nonetheless, how can the GTVA claim authority over Earth, when it was FROM Earth that the GTVA claims its origins? Kind of like a child leaving home for twenty years, and returning only to control his parents lives. BETAC, in reality, has no significance outside of current GTVA space.
Granted, they're probably going to fail, but it's still a crummy situation all around.
Short of Deus Ex Machina overdrive, all evidence is they're going to win.I'm not so sure about that.
QuoteShort of Deus Ex Machina overdrive, all evidence is they're going to win.I'm not so sure about that.
The GTVA can only continue the war as long as the have the backing of their own citicens. And the longer this war with Sol is going and the more GTVA pilots and ships are lost, the more civilians back home in the colonies will wonder why they are even fighting their brothers and sisters.
Should the public opinion ever swing around the GTVA will have little choice but to pull out and try a diplomatic solution I guess.
Furthermore economically the GTVA was in a really bad situation, with all the funds and ressources pumped into the construction of the portal. And now they are fighting a war and that for several month now.
For all we know the GTVA might be only inches away from complete economic collapse.... or not, we simply don't know.
But considering the situation before the war, I'd guess the GTVA can only win the war fast or not at all, unless they get help form the Vasudans (either economically or even military).
Granted, they're probably going to fail, but it's still a crummy situation all around.
Short of Deus Ex Machina overdrive, all evidence is they're going to win.
Not necessarily. The Sol half of the GTA immediately after the split probably started with a much larger industrial base and population as well as a much more sophisticated infrastructure. I'm sure the Lucifer gave Sol system quite a scare, and when contact was lost, for all they knew, they could be the last Terran system left (at least for a few years, anyway, assuming Terran radio communications have not degraded into total indecipherability after traveling all the way from Alpha Centauri and other nearby stars). In such circumstances, it seems logical that the United Earth government would have been pouring every available resource into turning Earth into an impenetrable fortress with the best weaponry money can buy for the last 50 years. Total mobilization, nonstop, for 50 years straight. And remember that all conquests give a significant advantage to the defender. The attacker has to subdue and conquer the defender. The defender only has to give the attacker a hard enough time to make it give up.
Except that, again, militarily, it takes but a small fraction of the GTVA's forces to conduct the war at the low intensity it's being carried out in. Otherwise, it would already be over. The casuality rates and economic cost are going to be very small for the simple fact that they are not conducting large operations.
Yeah, well if I were tasked with part of the strategy of such an invasion, I wouldn't honestly think it NEEDED more than two or three fleets. I mean.. IT'S A SINGLE FRAKKING SYSTEM! The GTVA is in control of like, thirty! And a good Commander always has a reserve for the next threat, who knows where the Shivans will come from next?QuoteExcept that, again, militarily, it takes but a small fraction of the GTVA's forces to conduct the war at the low intensity it's being carried out in. Otherwise, it would already be over. The casuality rates and economic cost are going to be very small for the simple fact that they are not conducting large operations.
Pretty much. I imagine the GTVA has horded military power after the destruction of Capella. We've seen up to the Sixteenth battlegroup. That's a lot. Even if that doesn't include the Sol 1st fleet, the GTVA has a lot of firepower in reserve, I'm sure they're just using it to guard their systems and keep order. Thus, only one or two fleets (from what we've seen) are actually leading the attack on Earth.
Yeah, well if I were tasked with part of the strategy of such an invasion, I wouldn't honestly think it NEEDED more than two or three fleets. I mean.. IT'S A SINGLE FRAKKING SYSTEM! The GTVA is in control of like, thirty! And a good Commander always has a reserve for the next threat, who knows where the Shivans will come from next?
Neither of those would have worked for reasons described in the dossier. The first because the GTVA is not the 'bad guys', they wouldn't violate their own conventions like that. The latter because I'm pretty sure the UEF culture itself was considered dangerous.
Neither of those would have worked for reasons described in the dossier. The first because the GTVA is not the 'bad guys', they wouldn't violate their own conventions like that. The latter because I'm pretty sure the UEF culture itself was considered dangerous.
With all due respect General, I humbly disagree. How can the GTVA not be the "bad guys"? Whenever a domineering force reaches a level where it can project power (Great Britain, United States, Romans, etc.), they inevitably become oppressors, because they can and do impose their interests through force. The justification for the invasion is one-sided in the least. The GTVA needs Earth's resources but being that is the weaker of the two, it sees no need to bargain. It will simply take what it wants by force; not recognizing any independence whatsoever. The aforementioned guise of "rationality" is simply a way to quiet any last vestige of conscious their forces may harbor.
But considering that the Humans and Vasudans can build their own portal based on only scans of one original portal, isn't it very likely that the technologically more advanced Shivans could do the same if they really wanted to?Maybe I misunderstood your post.
It would also fit in well with the "[....] all jumppoints to sol have been destroyed [....] I was told the Shivans can rebuild them [....]" part of the FS1 closing sequence.
They only attacked the GTA and Vasudans after years of war and later the GTVA and NTF after month of war.I took that to mean that the Shivans attacked because they sensed the fighting between the NTF and GTVA.
Okay, maybe I phrased it wrong.
The militarisation alone is surely not the reason for the Shivans attack. They only attacked the GTA and Vasudans after years of war and later the GTVA and NTF after month of war.
So I guess it's not just the militarisation but the actual fighting that attrackts the Shivans attention.
So the GTVA attacks the UEF to save them from the shivans and thus making the shivans attack both sides. For me that would be very ironic.
But wether you agree with me or not, is still no reason to call me stupid....
It is also fitting to note that Hitler justified -in part- world domination, by claiming his people were "threatened" by other "inferior" races. The subtleties are terrifying.
Does this justify a portion of the GTVA's decision to reclaim Sol by force then? I think it does. :nervous:I wouldn't say there were on Harmony's doorstep, and besides, I'd put my 50 on humanity getting face-****ed by the Shivans if by some miracle they found a shortcut to Sol. But if it were true that the Shivans only go into Annihalation Mode when they were provoked, then life on Sol would never have known the Shivans again with Ubuntu in power and the Tevs going along their merry way.
The sad thing is that the GTVA has faced so many horrors from the Shivans (two costly wars) that they know the repercussions of not being prepared for them. Ubuntu, on the other hand, has been cut off from the rest of the universe and the Shivans for so long that they've been able to unify themselves and are almost on the brink of reaching total harmony when the GTVA reopened the portal to Sol.
But there is one thing the GTVA overlooked.
So far Ubuntu could succeed among the general popultion, because of the isolation of Sol. They were all alone in their system with no way in or out.
Now that the way is again open, there must be a lot of people who fear the Shivans, and whatever other horrors might be lurking out there, enough to lapse onto the philosophy of the GTVA.
As you can see at elections all over the world, fear is a great motivator. And the GTVA wouldn't even need to tell lies to get the population afraid, the truth is horrifying enough.
Besides, they chose an individual (or actually two, since they communicated with both father and son) and just because one or two people in the GTVA are closer to the ideal of the Vishnans doesn't mean that UEF as a whole is less "enlightened" than the GTVA as a whole.
wut.
"So certain are you?,
mmmhhhhhhehahh ahah" - Yoda
No, actually it does. That's what makes it Star Wars, and the world of Star Wars was carefully constructed to allow it to be so. One may more strongly believe in the Lawful rather than the Evil part of the Empire's Lawful Evil, but you must accept both on some level.
Attempts to force grey morality through Star Wars fail as stories about that universe almost without exception.
There's one word for the sound of mass drivers and gauss cannons UEF use: manly.
There's one word for the sound of mass drivers and gauss cannons UEF use: manly.
As anyone who played AoA through can attest, the strength of the beams doesn't matter.
The problem is, that the Raynor as so many of them, which makes disarming them in time to save your caps hard (at least if you sit in a Pegasus and try to disarm the Orestes, to save the Karuna in the last mission....).
There's one word for the sound of mass drivers and gauss cannons UEF use: manly.
Ahhhh, i love the smell of testosterone in the morning...smells like...victory :pimp:
As anyone who played AoA through can attest, the strength of the beams doesn't matter.
As anyone who played AoA through can attest, the strength of the beams doesn't matter.
The problem is, that the Raynor as so many of them, which makes disarming them in time to save your caps hard (at least if you sit in a Pegasus and try to disarm the Orestes, to save the Karuna in the last mission....).
I'm replaying the mod again but does saving the karuna really do anything ? (other than give you a nice tingly feeling ;))
As for who will win this war, it would obviously be the GTVA in a truthful mod, but seeing as you play this mod on the side of the United Earth, the UE forces will emerge victorious.
QuoteAs for who will win this war, it would obviously be the GTVA in a truthful mod, but seeing as you play this mod on the side of the United Earth, the UE forces will emerge victorious.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions about the simplemindedness of the writers there.
"So certain are you?,
mmmhhhhhhehahh ahah" - Yoda
I mock Yoda for viewing the FS universe as a binary set. That only works for his universe.
Maybe you missed a game called 'FreeSpace 2'. :p
Maybe the UEF will lose the war, but in a last blaze of glory punch through the blockade into GTVA space, to inform the citizens of the atrocities commited by the invasion force
Honestly, if I were a GTVA citizen, I would be more concerned of my government becoming pansies like the UEF.
I don't think preaching peace will help you survive the Shivans. Even if it does, it's because of some plot device. You can't rely on plot devices.
Each to his own, I guess. But that for me, is part of the magic of BP. It's its own culture. It IS, the 23rd Century, not the 21st Century in the future, if you catch what I'm saying? I had my face inches away from the screen when I read some of those texts, and sent them to friends, who also praised them. But I agree, in the dangerous world of Freespace, pacifism will not suffice to stop the Shivans, or any other race of Superdestroyers.
Nehemiah has a great point. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that human society would ever turn into such a pacifist state. Man has excelled at killing man since early history. That violent nature will never change on man's account alone.
Are we really to believe that after being cut off from her colonies for less than a century, Earth is overtaken by wimps?
Don't get me wrong in any of what I'm saying. I think that Blue Planet is a great set of campaigns and a great storyline. I just feel that it would do better without all the Hinduism and Eastern religion mixed into it.
It seems ill-advised to engage in a campaign that weakens both parties to the point of vulnerability TO the Shivans. That clearly defeats the GTVA's supposed altruistic goal.
Look at Nazi Germany, what they did to the Jews. Did you honestly think, THAT, was possibly in the 20th Century?You just went into Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law) :D
An Elder might ask you why you think that someone who has the strength to say 'no' to murder is a wimp. When killing is the easy decision, the killers are the cowards, the Elder might suggest.
The UEF is, in many ways, a state built on applied psychology. It is an attempt to create a society in which individuals can be truly moral instead of being forced to compromise their beliefs to serve the situation. It is a state which believes that the ends do not justify the means.
Oh my. :PLook at Nazi Germany, what they did to the Jews. Did you honestly think, THAT, was possibly in the 20th Century?You just went into Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law) :D
Actually, that is only one psychological theory. My experience in life trumps psychological theories. Your response indicates that you believe that humanity is bent towards good. This is not the case. Humanity is bent towards evil ans destruction, in that people only behave morally and do good because they fear the consequences and the established governing authority. People do as much evil as they can get away with and behave wickedly when they believe that no one is watching them. Kind of like cockroaches filling a room that scatter and disappear when a lightswitch is turned on. People try to not get caught in their evil, but that does not change their nature.Bit of a cynical view, might I say. I do the right thing because I am at heart, a moral citizen. I don't help my friends and complete strangers out because I'm secretly a sadomasochist at heart and fearful of the government.
Bit of a cynical view, might I say. I do the right thing because I am at heart, a moral citizen. I don't help my friends and complete strangers out because I'm secretly a sadomasochist at heart and fearful of the government.
Actually, that is only one psychological theory. My experience in life trumps psychological theories.
Your response indicates that you believe that humanity is bent towards good.
No, it doesn't, but since you obviously don't know any psychology I'm not going to get sucked into a debate on it. Actual human morality has nothing to do with 'bent towards good' or 'bent towards evil'; the fact that you're still making dispositional statements indicate you've never seen a good data set on the subject.
This is immaterial, anyway; back on topic plz.
BTW, which Shivan Super Juggernaut would win in a fight? The SSJ Dante or the SSJ Gigas?The Gigas, hands down. Almost twice as long, with numerous super heavy beam cannons and the subspace weapon. But the Dante looks cooler. :P
This is not the case. Humanity is bent towards evil ans destruction, in that people only behave morally and do good because they fear the consequences and the established governing authority. People do as much evil as they can get away with and behave wickedly when they believe that no one is watching them.You forget something here.
Do you lie when you can get away with it?Counterquestion: Do you lie whenever you get the chance to lie?
TheHoroHolonet?
I'm going to say that because of the whole chokepoint thing involved in this method of interstellar travel (yay big words!) that the UEF could probably hold of the GTVA for quite some time, assuming they don't run out of resources which I don't think would happen any time soon.
You should really read the proses on the website. Apart from being a good read, they contain a lot of information.
Yes, the GTVA does have a beachhead. The have complete and unchellenged controll of the jumpnode and I think in the 2nd battle for Neptune they also took that place (not 100% sure on that though, since it's been some time since I read the proses) after being driven away in the first attack, with heavy losses on both sides.
Mjolnirs, being unable to move or rotate and only being able to fire straight forward, are only really usefull in attacking ships that come out of a jumpnode. So putting up those beam platforms inside the sol system would be a waste of material, unless the GTVA finally fitted some manouvering thrusters onto them.
The problem is you don't have to fly into the node in a specific corridor if the retail missions are anything to judge by.
You'd have to cover 360° on all three axis'.