Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Marauder on February 26, 2012, 12:36:16 am
-
Dear HLPers,
I haven't been back in a long, long time, but it warms my heart to see HLP is still in strong spirits. Fellow forumites, I would like to bring to your attention today a concern that has long existed in many of our hearts, as gamers, artists, storytellers of the FreeSpace Universe. It is time, I feel, to address the gaping hole which our community actively chose to ignore not long after its foundation, a hole which resulted in bitter speech between older forumites and the shunning of newbies who mentioned it. A hole we - the HLP community – have taught ourselves to disregard.
No longer. This community needs to once again rally around a common cause: :v: for FS3.
Think about what this game has done for you, how it may have changed your life, despite being nothing more than a game. The boldest of you took that source code and morphed it into the globally accessible FreeSpace Open. Some of you have gained intense modding experience, creating monumental works for integration in-game. Some of you tried your hands at storytelling, and came up with immersive campaigns and fanfiction that continue to quench our desires to further expand the non-canon FreeSpace universe. There were those of you that voice acted, those of you that killed us with laughter (I'm looking at YOU, Axem), and of especially honourable mention, those of you out there that founded, grew, and kept this community running and improving after all this time.
For me, at the tender age of 8, FreeSpace cultivated my already blossoming interest in astronomy, astrophysics, and astrobiology. It was a residual factor in my application and acceptance into the astrophysics program at my university, and by association exposed me to the wonders of Neil de Grasse Tyson, Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, and other great minds. In addition, as a musician, FreeSpace has provided me with music to appreciate, analyze over and over again, and given me compositional inspiration. As a visual artist, it motivated me to start learning to model and animate in Blender. Last but not least it resulted in the creation of a friendly community that thrives on making campaigns, restorations, upgrades, fan art, interviews and much more, all attributed in part to the original game.
Therefore, I ask: What do we need to do to help get FreeSpace 3 on the shelves? Sandwich posted back in 2004 an e-mail response from Dave Baranec regarding the FreeSpace license and Volition's discussion with THQ about its acquisition. What can we do to resurrect these talks if they are not happening? The post stated that the FS license could cost upwards of $300k, though who knows what the actual number could be now. Would Volition accept our financial contributions in the form of a Kickstarter fundraiser? HLP could easily meet such a benchmark, I think. Who could we talk to about this?
Furthermore, how can we help Volition to eliminate issues that surfaced with the release of FreeSpace 2? Last time I heard, one of the issues was that there were not enough copies of FreeSpace 2 to go around; but that was hearsay, can I get a fact on this? Nevertheless, if you want to go buy a copy on eBay you can sometimes look forward to spending around $100 - enough of a turn-off for my dad to buy me a new copy 5 years ago, especially when I got FS2 for my 9th birthday for $24. HLP was instrumental in making the game so easily accessible; even to this day, the number of downloads is nothing to sneeze at. FreeSpace 3 can be better marketed to reach a larger audience, and I think certain HLPers may have good ideas about what happened with FreeSpace 2, and how to not repeat the same mistakes with its sequel. Red Faction and Saints Row have met considerable success in the hands of THQ – what stops FS3 from following suit?
I call upon the Hard Light community to band together to convince Volition make FreeSpace 3 happen. I will dedicate a huge, passionate effort to this, but I need help. I'm not the large-scale leadership type of individual, and I know I haven't addressed even close to all the issues, but know there are many of you here who can. I need direction – I'm a pawn, use me! There are a lot of popular games out there NOW (well, that's my opinion) that don't have even half the substance that FreeSpace and its sequel had, back in the 90s.
Now, with General Battuta's interview with Jason Scott only having happened in February 2011, it is revealed to us that there is a small flame of hope inside Volition Inc. There is no better community than Hard Light Productions to feed that flame and make it a glorious star for all to see. Think about it! The Great War raged with the Shivans arriving at the beginning of the 14th year, and now, we are at the dawn of the 14th year since Descent: FreeSpace's release. If that isn't a freaking sign, I don't know what is. If anyone can get the ball rolling on this, we can. HLP can!
Once again, I would like to shout loud and proud: :v: for FS3! No longer should anyone be scolded for saying it or posting it in their signatures or posts! I hope you will join me in this endeavour to remind Volition of the loyal fanbase here at HLP, and give them some of the tools they need to bring about the conclusion on which we long ago stopped waiting. There was a reason why we chased Derek Smart away from the license, and there is a reason why HLP still exists.
Thank you for reading.
Marauder
P.S. You truly know a game deserves more attention when Volition needs to post a note on their contact page telling submitters not to pester them about buying FreeSpace games because they don't have any. :wtf:
-
While :v-old: is respected and FS3 something worth looking at, I'm not sure if I trust :v-old: to make a game right now with the THQ fiasco going on. It'd be nice but not needed.
Now if we can Kickstart funding to buy FreeSpace from Interplay, that would be an exciting achievement.
-
Therefore, I ask: What do we need to do to help get FreeSpace 3 on the shelves? Sandwich posted back in 2004 an e-mail response from Dave Baranec regarding the FreeSpace license and Volition's discussion with THQ about its acquisition. What can we do to resurrect these talks if they are not happening? The post stated that the FS license could cost upwards of $300k, though who knows what the actual number could be now.
I got the impression that Interplay (owning the FreeSpace IP) wants an awful lot of money for the license, and probably won't even sell the license, no matter what.
Furthermore, how can we help Volition to eliminate issues that surfaced with the release of FreeSpace 2? Last time I heard, one of the issues was that there were not enough copies of FreeSpace 2 to go around; but that was hearsay, can I get a fact on this?
I heard it was because of poor marketing; few people knew FS2 had been released.
I call upon the Hard Light community to band together to convince Volition make FreeSpace 3 happen. I will dedicate a huge, passionate effort to this, but I need help. I'm not the large-scale leadership type of individual, and I know I haven't addressed even close to all the issues, but know there are many of you here who can. I need direction – I'm a pawn, use me!
There are an awful lot of people who are like this: idea guys. "Hey, I think now is the time to make FS3. But I can't do it, so I'll need people to form a team with strong leadership, superb writing skills, top-of-the-line FREDders, modders etc and then make FS3. Chop chop!" While ideas are great (even I occasionally have them), this "FS3 project" would first and foremost require a person who will actually seize control by the throat and start getting results, instead of asking other people to do the stuff. Not to mention preferably the license so no one would get their asses sued. Nothing personal, just saying.
-
I got the impression that Interplay (owning the FreeSpace IP) wants an awful lot of money for the license, and probably won't even sell the license, no matter what.
This shouldn't even be allowed! If they're just going to sit on their hands and refuse to sell the license, with no intention to do anything with it, that's just ridiculous. "I have this thing I can't do anything with, but that means no one else gets it either!" is what such an action says to me. But as I said, perhaps in the form of a Kickstarter page, HLP could chip in quite a lot to the license purchasing. Double Fine was able to pull that off recently with their new game, and it makes me wonder about the comparative size of the Volition and Double Fine fanbases.
There are an awful lot of people who are like this: idea guys. "Hey, I think now is the time to make FS3. But I can't do it, so I'll need people to form a team with strong leadership, superb writing skills, top-of-the-line FREDders, modders etc and then make FS3. Chop chop!" While ideas are great (even I occasionally have them), this "FS3 project" would first and foremost require a person who will actually seize control by the throat and start getting results, instead of asking other people to do the stuff. Not to mention preferably the license so no one would get their asses sued. Nothing personal, just saying.
Oh trust me, I know where you're coming from. No offense taken. It's like people who go up to individual programmers saying something like, "I have an idea for something to rival Facebook, but it needs x, y and z, can you get it done for me in 3 months?" However, I think you've missed part of my point. I'm not saying HLP needs to round up their best modders, writers, promoters, etc., and get FS3 done; that's preposterous. What I am saying is that particular members of the community have contacts with Volition, and could leverage those connections to voice HLP's desires to see FS3. It's Volition that needs to make FS3, not us (!!), and I'm wondering aloud about how this can happen and how HLP can be supportive of their efforts – not employed by Volition itself or taking it upon themselves to actually make FS3. If FS3, for instance, had been entirely delayed based on lack of finances for the license, a Kickstarter project could give them a boost (but of course, we know it's not that simple). The recent interview with Jason Scott only demonstrates that Volition is 100% aware of our existence, that the staff still have teeny desires to make FS3, and even glimpses into what FS3 could have been about.
Basically, I am also offering myself to help organize some junk, whether it's conducting interviews, monitoring news at THQ and Interplay, or whatnot. I have been in leadership roles my whole life, but they were local efforts – not at the scale of taking charge of an interest group on the Internet, for instance, and poor health will not permit me to do so. I have no experience whatsoever with petitioning for some sort of change, which is why I wrote the letter to hear from others what's practical, and what's not. What I think HLP would be effective at is continuing their interviews, for instance, or providing financial support, or putting the pressure on Interplay to give up the license if they indeed will never do anything with it.
In the end, it's all about what Volition chooses to do, but I feel we can be a driving force that will encourage them to get that game ultimately published. Convincing them to create the game is the first step.
-
The rules of business are stupid. And that's coming from an Economics major.
The best bet for Freespace 3 might actually be to ask the writers (and maybe concept artists and modelers) at Volition what exactly they wanted to do and just do it for them. And I mean, mission-by-mission and story point to story point, or as close to that as we can get. We have people in this forum who know how to do everything necessary to make a game, and if we could get a complete picture of what should be cannon, then we could make it a reality. None of us would have to decide the story direction of cannon, and we would all get to not only play the sequel, but actually take part in creating it.
We might have to ask Volition when we some decision needs to be made since they won't be able to anticipate everything, and we probably wouldn't be able to strictly call it Freespace 3 because of licensing, but it would be at least worth it to mention it to :v-old:.
We would use the FS2 engine or a derivative of it (since making a whole new engine would probably be a waste of time), use the HTL versions of the old assets, and make necessary assets based on concept art and writer descriptions/necessities (and also modeler's stated preferences: things we aren't aware of that will affect how we would make the models).
And what other thing can't we create? What part of the game haven't we worked with? It's silly to have this much talent who loves the franchise and to not try something like this.
-
The best bet for Freespace 3 might actually be to ask the writers (and maybe concept artists and modelers) at Volition what exactly they wanted to do and just do it for them. And I mean, mission-by-mission and story point to story point, or as close to that as we can get. We have people in this forum who know how to do everything necessary to make a game, and if we could get a complete picture of what should be cannon, then we could make it a reality. None of us would have to decide the story direction of cannon, and we would all get to not only play the sequel, but actually take part in creating it.
We already know all there is to know about the planned FS3. You have to understand that FS3 was cancelled long before it ever got to more than the most preliminary concepts; as such, only a very rough outline exists.
-
Well, maybe we could ask them to come up with a basic story outline of what they as a whole would have liked to see if there were no unreasonable limits to what could be done. And also a general idea of what the Terran/Vasudan/Shivan craft would look like in the story's time frame. It wouldn't have to be grandiose, just enough to push us in the right direction.
It doesn't have to be perfect, but wouldn't it be awesome to tell the story that the writers would want to be told, even if it's not exactly the way they would tell it? It would be an awesome project to attempt.
-
Okay, I am sorry to ask this, but do you have any concept of how game development works? FS3 was cancelled way before it entered the formal pre-production stage, as such, there are only some vague plot ideas. No actual designs exist.
-
This community needs to once again rally around a common cause: :v: for FS3.
Nah, I'm good. I like where things are at now. The lack of closure to FS's storyline was very likely a large catalyst that has played a role in the number of creative projects this community has seen. And now, instead of one vision for post Capella, we have many.. and it's awesome. Means even more FS gameplay. Who cares if it's "canon", it's fun to play.
-
We have people in this forum who know how to do everything necessary to make a game, and if we could get a complete picture of what should be cannon, then we could make it a reality. None of us would have to decide the story direction of cannon, and we would all get to not only play the sequel, but actually take part in creating it.
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/0rph3u5/volitioncannon2.png)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
-
The only realistic chance I see for :v: to get their IP back is via a really remarkable Kickstarter showing or the disintegration of Interplay.
Even if that happens, THQ is in dire straits financially, and :v: probably won't seek or get permission to do a low-return project like FreeSpace when they need guaranteed cashflow right now.
-
Okay, I am sorry to ask this, but do you have any concept of how game development works? FS3 was cancelled way before it entered the formal pre-production stage, as such, there are only some vague plot ideas. No actual designs exist.
I definitely understood that the first two times.
Ask for them. The writers probably want to continue the story, ask them for an outline and they might just write one. Everyone knows the chance for a commercial game is incredibly low, why not say that to them and then say, "we'll make the game you want to see made but can't make".
-
Is there really a market for an AAA space sim game? For AAA games, you could need 500,000 sales just to break even. The gaming industry and audience were vastly different in 1999--the whole market was smaller, budgets were smaller, technological limits were much more restrictive and thus the idea of using a space setting to do away with computationally expensive level design was very attractive. Sci-fi and space in general were also much more popular back then--in the mid-90s there were at least four space opera series running concurrently on US television. Star Trek was a license for Paramount to print money. The International Space Station project was subjected to massive hype. Now we're left with one sci-fi series (Doctor Who) that is more about its own nostalgia than the future and a rotting husk of a space agency that is more or less running on 40-year-old technology.
-
if they make it, i will buy it. might even pre-order it if it gets to that point (only game i'd EVER do that for). but that's the extent of how much i care about FS3. i'm not expending any more effort in a feeble attempt to get it made than to state my intention to purchase it if it does.
-
If don't know why people still talk about FS3. There's Blue Planet for those who want a well done continuation of the story (in fact, it was spot on with more than one plot point :v: wanted for FS3) and a re-made version of Inferno is coming soon for those who would like a more "traditional" approach. Making a story "canon" doesn't make it better in any way, and both of those projects are quite well make from the technical side. And I don't think that making a new engine when SCP has gone so far makes sense, it already has (or will have in the near future) most features that modern game engines use. It's not cutting edge, but looks reasonably good.
-
Now if we can Kickstart funding to buy FreeSpace from Interplay, that would be an exciting achievement.
This seems feasible! Addressing HLP plus the folks on Reddit and other forums who aren't registered on HLP could certainly make this possible, I think. That's the beauty of a Kickstarter project; if we don't meet the goal of the fundraiser, everyone gets their money back.
Is there really a market for an AAA space sim game? For AAA games, you could need 500,000 sales just to break even. The gaming industry and audience were vastly different in 1999--the whole market was smaller, budgets were smaller, technological limits were much more restrictive and thus the idea of using a space setting to do away with computationally expensive level design was very attractive.
As several others mentioned, THQ is in financial hell right now, and I think that's all the more of a reason for THQ to like the idea of a space sim – because it's computationally inexpensive, thus the game could be made faster. You do bring up a good point about the market though. Apparently in the first 6 months of FS2's release they only sold just less than 27,000 copies, and Kulas wasn't happy with that. You could argue that with a bigger market, there might actually be way more open-minded individuals than there were in 1999 to actually buy the game now. Unfortunately, you can't just compare how many copies of FS2 were sold out of total games sold in 1999, and scale that up to total games sold in 2011.
If don't know why people still talk about FS3. There's Blue Planet for those who want a well done continuation of the story (in fact, it was spot on with more than one plot point wanted for FS3) and a re-made version of Inferno is coming soon for those who would like a more "traditional" approach. Making a story "canon" doesn't make it better in any way, and both of those projects are quite well make from the technical side.
Out of all the beautiful campaigns out there, I think there's only been one point of Volition's that hasn't been addressed, and that was the incursion on the Shivan homeworld/Shivantown. I am not bashing the technical advances the SCP has made on this game, and think it would be pretty neat if most of FS2's assets were used for FS3. All the better if FS2 Open's assets were used as well.
-
THQ being in dire straits is going to make them less likely to gamble on FreeSpace, not more. They're going to want a safe, reliable source of revenue, not an experiment in something that may or may not have any significant market.
-
This seems feasible! Addressing HLP plus the folks on Reddit and other forums who aren't registered on HLP could certainly make this possible, I think. That's the beauty of a Kickstarter project; if we don't meet the goal of the fundraiser, everyone gets their money back.
Uhhhhh
As several others mentioned, THQ is in financial hell right now, and I think that's all the more of a reason for THQ to like the idea of a space sim – because it's computationally inexpensive, thus the game could be made faster.
No. Just, no. I can see you are enthusiastic about this whole thing, but you have literally no idea what modern game development is like. A AAA game takes about 2 years to design, produce, test, and publish. Even moderately complex mods can take that long, if not longer (The BP project has been going on in one form or another since 2007, for example). That an engine for a space combat game seems less complex than one for an FPS is a misconception. Vehicle design, UI design, and all the other parts of designing a game do not take appreciably longer whether you are making an FPS or anything else.
You do bring up a good point about the market though. Apparently in the first 6 months of FS2's release they only sold just less than 27,000 copies, and Kulas wasn't happy with that. You could argue that with a bigger market, there might actually be way more open-minded individuals than there were in 1999 to actually buy the game now. Unfortunately, you can't just compare how many copies of FS2 were sold out of total games sold in 1999, and scale that up to total games sold in 2011.
Let us take modern space sims as a meterstick, then. X3, last I heard, never sold more than 100k copies. SOL: Exodus sold even less (and bear in mind that S:E was an indy game with a very low budget). Even with services such as Steam and Desura, the spacesim genre does not sell well at the moment.
Out of all the beautiful campaigns out there, I think there's only been one point of Volition's that hasn't been addressed, and that was the incursion on the Shivan homeworld/Shivantown. I am not bashing the technical advances the SCP has made on this game, and think it would be pretty neat if most of FS2's assets were used for FS3. All the better if FS2 Open's assets were used as well.
Because that's :v:'s vision of what would happen next in the FS universe. There aren't all that many campaigns out there that attempt to offer any more explanations about the Shivans. :v: did an immense job in portraying the Shivans as an inscrutable enemy that is like a red glowing force of nature, trying to make them more understandable is a task that takes very good writers to pull off without making silly mistakes.
-
i think :v-old: is more interested in making descent 4 atm :(
-
That's not a bad thing, as long as they don't mess it up. Descent is actually a quite unique series, not to mention somewhat related to FS. I didn't heard of any similar shooter (maybe because all Descent games were so sea sickness-inducing). In fact, because of that, and the reasons I already stated, I'd prefer to see D4 than FS3.
-
This community needs to once again rally around a common cause: :v: for FS3.
Nah, I'm good. I like where things are at now. The lack of closure to FS's storyline was very likely a large catalyst that has played a role in the number of creative projects this community has seen. And now, instead of one vision for post Capella, we have many.. and it's awesome. Means even more FS gameplay. Who cares if it's "canon", it's fun to play.
+1 to this.
That said, if anyone produced a modern-engined spiritual successor to FS2, it would make my day. No real need for it to involve the Freespace IP at all though.
-
Yeah, at this point, I'd quite happily settle for any random high-quality space sim that follows the FS/Wing Commander vein.
-
If you say it's time to get FS3 on the shelves, then I say it's time that you go about changing US copywrite law first. That's where the real fight's at.
-
I'm afraid that US copyright law isn't going to change for the better, considering that we're currently fighting a battle for it not to become worse.
Anyway, I'd also like to see a decent quality space sim made on modern engine and without a free roaming, wide open sandbox/economic sim environment. Perhaps a bit more realistic than FS, but not necessarily with a fully newtonian flight model like IFH (a B5-themed indie sim with a newtonian flight model).
-
looking through inteplay's website to see if i could find contact details in an attempt to request (provoke if need be) (yes i know crazy long odds of success but i am in a what the hell mood atm) and i ran into this which i though was worth a cheep lol.
Our portfolio of well recognized Intellectual Properties includes Battlechess, Clayfighter, Dark Alliance, Descent, Earthworm Jim, Freespace, Giants, Messiah, MDK, Run Like Hell and Sacrifice amongst other.
not much there from this side of Y2K, heck i grew up on a load of this stuff
-
i think :v-old: is more interested in making descent 4 atm :(
i take that back. I forgot :v-old: hardly made this franchise.
In that case they could possibly be released at the same time like before.
-
looking through inteplay's website to see if i could find contact details in an attempt to request (provoke if need be) (yes i know crazy long odds of success but i am in a what the hell mood atm) and i ran into this which i though was worth a cheep lol.
Any luck with this? Maaaaan, this whole thing is annoying, but I'm glad I was able to provoke some thoughtful discussion. I guess ultimately, with the crap THQ is going through right now plus Volition's focus on Saints Row and Red Faction, FS3 isn't feasible right now, what with the license in jeopardy.
:(
Hopes crushed again! I think I'll keep my [V] for FS3 in my siggy though... it's interesting how even in an interview in 2011, Volition at least is still thinking about FS3.
-
Any luck with this? Maaaaan, this whole thing is annoying,
Nothing that would get a meaningful response.
in other news interplay is worth about $3 - $3.5 mil on the stock markets from what i could find
-
FS2 is one of :v:'s favorite games, maybe their absolute favorite, and they were really crushed when it didn't do well.
-
I would have felt really bad, too. FS2 was amazingly polished. From the plot and continuity, to the code (for the amount of time they had and for what they needed, anyway), there were very few mistakes and no major ones if I remember right. They really did make a special game.
We're always thinking about bugs and how to improve the game these days, but I could play Vanilla FS2 anytime (assuming I wouldn't have to deal with the afterburner bug).
-
ill wait to see what it is that "Secret project Y" on :v: webpage... people are linking it to the new Saint Rows, but the truth is that "Secret Project Y" was on there even before "Saint’s Row: The Third" was released, around 03 mar 2011, about a week after the "Volition: 'We'd Kill To Make FreeSpace 3' on Nowgamer.com"...
-
ill wait to see what it is that "Secret project Y" on :v: webpage... people are linking it to the new Saint Rows, but the truth is that "Secret Project Y" was on there even before "Saint’s Row: The Third" was released, around 03 mar 2011, about a week after the "Volition: 'We'd Kill To Make FreeSpace 3' on Nowgamer.com"...
project x all over again
-
Well, there is always hope, One_letter said "I'm putting my vote in for Freespace 3." on neogaf, but its unlikely the truth, its just his opinion :P
-
At first I always thought that there should be a Freespace 3, I wanted some closure to Freespace, but I found HLP a year ago and played Wings of Dawn, then I went on and played the other mods, and realised something, Freespace's lack of closure is what brings these mods out, because people can make their own end to the game. Now, I think that a Freespace 3 would kill most of the projects that are being made, maybe it's best if there isn't one.
On a different, and less philosophical note, if it is made, i'm preordering, standing in line, giving it a front spot on my shelf, and waving it in front of my friends like an overly excited 10 year old kid. :D
-
At first I always thought that there should be a Freespace 3, I wanted some closure to Freespace, but I found HLP a year ago and played Wings of Dawn, then I went on and played the other mods, and realised something, Freespace's lack of closure is what brings these mods out, because people can make their own end to the game. Now, I think that a Freespace 3 would kill most of the projects that are being made, maybe it's best if there isn't one.
On a different, and less philosophical note, if it is made, i'm preordering, standing in line, giving it a front spot on my shelf, and waving it in front of my friends like an overly excited 10 year old kid. :D
I think so long as FS3 had a similar open ended finale it would be of a benefit to the community now that a considerable time has passed by giving the community a new time frame to focus on and providing new canon to work with, while refreshing the general public's exposure to the series and recruiting a wealth of new members, even if only a few of them hang around after the initial buzz.
-
As long as there's a level editor like FRED bundled with the FS3, the community will survive, (and maybe go on to do better things). :)
-
I'd be preordering not one, but 5 copies of FS3 if they'd build it! Heck, i would even learn Chinese if that helped in any way.
Unfortunately, i tried to introduce FS2 to a few members of the younger generation, people in their teens, avid gamers as they call themselves, but to no avail. I even did all the dirty work of installing everything on their super computers. And although they seemed interested when shown the trailers, not one of them actually gave the game a decent try. It's sad, i know, even more so for them cause they don't know what they're missing. :nono:
Maybe in the future , with Virgin getting closer to do commercial flights into space and NASA preparing to land on Mars, coupled with some blockbuster space movie, world's attention might be drawn to something like FS3. Until then we can only hope.
I, for one, am very grateful for all the amazing work that you guys and girls have put in to give us the wealth of campaigns available at the moment. Barely started going through the list of fan made campaigns and i think I'll still be flying one year from now :yes:
Just as well, I'll keep polishing my piloting skills...just in case FS3 will actually come to life. You never know, stranger things have happened... :D
-
Thing is, larger companies, those with the expenses to invest fully in a game, are standing by the pitch watching with regards to the 'Space Battle Simulator' type game, and this has led to a run of smaller, less well funded studios releasing a lot of poor to above average games which haven't really achieved critical success at the level required for larger companies to take an interest.
Sadly the days of larger companies leading the innovation curve are long over, they are more scavengers now, waiting to find a style that works and then leaping on it after the bandwagon has rolled out.
-
Well, let's see. It seems giant stompy mech simulators are making a comeback. We'll see what happens with spacesims.
-
Well, let's see. It seems giant stompy mech simulators are making a comeback. We'll see what happens with spacesims.
*drools all over Mech warrior 5* (*-*)
-
Any luck with this? Maaaaan, this whole thing is annoying,
Nothing that would get a meaningful response.
in other news interplay is worth about $3 - $3.5 mil on the stock markets from what i could find
Really? That little?
I expected higher, but i can believe it.
-
We should raise that much and just buy Interplay. DONE.
-
I have $5.
-
Chuck it on my platinum visa :doubt:
-
The license, while an issue, is actually the smallest of the hurdles in front of FS3.
The Market is the issue. How many top selling Space Sims have been released since FS2? For that matter, how many top selling Space Sims were released in FS2's day? FS2 sure wasn't a top seller. Major publishers want cheap triple A names they can sell for a wide margin. Slap Call of Duty on a box and it will sell, regardless of quality. Put FreeSpace 3 on a box and you will have gained nothing.
THQ needs hits, and they need to spend as little as possible to make them. The FS name is hardly a slam dunk. They cannot rely on the name, so they have to put money into the actual product... far more expensive than making a mediocre game with a great name. Hell, even making a mediocre game is spendy.
Consider that 300K would pay for about one project leader for one year (including benefits and workmans comp), which is one person out of a team of a 100 (or more, considering todays AAA teams), and now add marketing, packaging, shipping, tech support, web sites...
A 300K license is hardly what's stopping FS3.
-
I'm just glad Freespace isn't popular enough to have franchise whores out there trying to use its name to boost sales of an unrelated project, like what Syndicate and XCOM are doing.
-
FS2 is one of :v:'s favorite games, maybe their absolute favorite, and they were really crushed when it didn't do well.
It could/should have done well, it's a ****ing superb game; I'm sad for them. :( When FSO is finished, would it be possible to release on a widely adopted platform (i.e. Steam) that would get FS2 more exposure? (and hopefully more appreciation! FS2 deserves it.)
-
When FSO is finished
Hahahaha
Wat
-
When FSO is finished
Hahahaha
Wat
A man can dream, can't he? ;)
-
I'm just glad Freespace isn't popular enough to have franchise whores out there trying to use its name to boost sales of an unrelated project, like what Syndicate and XCOM are doing.
No, FS1 just happened to be the whore :lol:
Descent: FreeSpace – The Great War
When FSO is finished
Hahahaha
Wat
A man can dream, can't he? ;)
Its a rather sick dream to want all the new things and all the possibilities to end. "FSO being finished" == "Hard-Light being dead".
-
A man can dream, can't he? ;)
I'm not sure you understand the whole concept.
The Source Code Project aims at improving the Freespace Open code, making it more optimized, adding features, fixing bugs, etc (not necessarily in that order). By very nature, it is not a project that will have a definite conclusion to its development. Other than, of course, it being eventually abandoned if the SCP team was to ever disband/vanish/whatever. That, my friend, isn't exactly what a man should dream of, right ?
-
I of course do not dream of the end of this place, that's preposterous, but thanks for the lovely presumptions. Fine, when FSO reaches a point of consistency that would be acceptable for wide release, would it be possible to release to a more widely adopted platform to get FS2 the exposure it deserves?
-
I of course do not dream of the end of this place, that's preposterous, but thanks for the lovely presumptions. Fine, when FSO reaches a point of consistency that would be acceptable for wide release, would it be possible to release to a widely adopted platform to get FS2 the exposure it deserves?
Well, I think we've been at that point since 3.6.12. It's not really possible for us to do this since we cannot sell FSO.
-
Bummer. I'll have to start an awareness campaign then.
-
Bummer. I'll have to start an awareness campaign then.
The FS source code was released on a not for profit basis, thus short of some very unlikely changes to the legal system internationally regarding software licencing it will never happen because selling any software resulting from the code is illegal
-
I never said anything about selling, I was just hoping it could be released in some fashion that achieves greater penetration than the usual loyal followers downloading and unzipping a bunch of **** from our humble little home here.
-
Well, once 3.6.14 is out, I was going to upload all of the FS mods / TCs / MVPs and FSPort to gameupdates.org (http://gameupdates.org). However, as I just recently moved (again!), this will not likely be possible, as I'll be behind a satellite connection. :( Perhaps I'll be able to do it slowly over the course of several months..
-
I have high speed internet and would be willing to contribute to that cause if you like. :) Isn't 3.6.14 is still a ways off?
-
It's on Release Candidate 5.. so.. maybe not?
-
I have come up with an idea on how to create something which is the closest thing to a real FS3 that there could ever be, but also satisfying us more seasoned members who are reluctant to see such a thing created for fear of it seriously harming canon, or that an unknown might bastardize it.
Firstly, this would have to be understood as being totally non-cannon... at best, fannon. Secondly, it would preclude the idea of it being on any new game engine. It would therefore be made for FSO.
Volition, THQ, and Interplay. All three of these companies hold various portions of the rights to the game, but none are willing or able to do anything with them. However, even if they did, it is likely that the direction would be so alien from the existing type of story, as to be a complete disappointment to all. This leaves only one conclusion... the game must be made by the only people that the FS community as a whole trusts with the story... the original game designers themselves. We already have had contact with at least two of the original developers, story and now music. If we could coax enough of the original creators, intermixed with HLP campaign alumni, with close partnership with the FSO team, I could see a polished product being released to the community as the "the next best thing to FS3 you'll ever see". Not saying that campaigns such as BP, Inferno :pimp:, and many others aren't awesome and well created campaigns, but this would have the prestige of being the FS3 that the Volition design team wanted to make. It would of course have to be a non-profit project, just as all the rest of the non-cannon campaigns over the years have been, and that's assuming that the original designers I have mentioned, aren't under some kind of legal restraints preventing them from participating in any FS-related project not authorized by Volition, THQ, Interplay, or whoever owns the story rights, in any way shape or form.
Now, I understand that something like what I have proposed is exceedingly unlikely, and equivalent of a daydream, but it would probably also be the most likely way it could be created, and the most likely it could be accepted by the community as a whole.
I doubt this could actually be done, but I felt like sharing this concept with the community.
-
FS2 is one of :v:'s favorite games, maybe their absolute favorite, and they were really crushed when it didn't do well.
I know I'm replying to this several weeks late, but hell, I feel like this needs to be said: In a video interview, I remember Dan Wentz himself commenting on the FS series in general, and his disappointment in FS2's lack of success. He said something along these lines:
It was the best game we'd ever created... and it was marginally successful.
So yeah, I'd say it was a lack of marketing or lack of public knowledge of the game's existence that killed retail FreeSpace productions.
Also, on the notion of getting FS3 made by recruiting the spare time of its original creators--I like the idea a lot, but would it be worth getting in touch with people living in Illinois? I mean, keeping online contact is difficult in itself--people can just ignore you outright if they feel like it. It's a little more difficult to do this if we were to organize something in person to meet up with some or all of these people--but consequently, it'd be a lot harder for them to pretend we don't exist if we did something in person. Anyone live in the northern Central timezone? :nervous:
-
I don't understand why people think that FS3 (official or otherwise) on the same engine would be any better than what we already have from the mod community.
-
I've always felt that FS2's poor sales is what prompted the release of the source code. Sort of a "Well, we don't have the cash to do anything more with this, so you guys give it a go..."
I think that if FS2 did really well, FS3 would have followed suit and the series would have ended... and surely by now its fan base would be mild. Just old timers occasionally digging out dusty CD's.
Thank God it was a sales flop.
-
I have come up with an idea on how to create something which is the closest thing to a real FS3 that there could ever be, but also satisfying us more seasoned members who are reluctant to see such a thing created for fear of it seriously harming canon, or that an unknown might bastardize it.
Firstly, this would have to be understood as being totally non-cannon... at best, fannon. Secondly, it would preclude the idea of it being on any new game engine. It would therefore be made for FSO.
Volition, THQ, and Interplay. All three of these companies hold various portions of the rights to the game, but none are willing or able to do anything with them. However, even if they did, it is likely that the direction would be so alien from the existing type of story, as to be a complete disappointment to all. This leaves only one conclusion... the game must be made by the only people that the FS community as a whole trusts with the story... the original game designers themselves. We already have had contact with at least two of the original developers, story and now music. If we could coax enough of the original creators, intermixed with HLP campaign alumni, with close partnership with the FSO team, I could see a polished product being released to the community as the "the next best thing to FS3 you'll ever see". Not saying that campaigns such as BP, Inferno :pimp:, and many others aren't awesome and well created campaigns, but this would have the prestige of being the FS3 that the Volition design team wanted to make. It would of course have to be a non-profit project, just as all the rest of the non-cannon campaigns over the years have been, and that's assuming that the original designers I have mentioned, aren't under some kind of legal restraints preventing them from participating in any FS-related project not authorized by Volition, THQ, Interplay, or whoever owns the story rights, in any way shape or form.
Now, I understand that something like what I have proposed is exceedingly unlikely, and equivalent of a daydream, but it would probably also be the most likely way it could be created, and the most likely it could be accepted by the community as a whole.
I doubt this could actually be done, but I felt like sharing this concept with the community.
This is an idea that's been around for years.
Honestly, there were aspects of the plan for FS3 that were already kind of disappointing and didn't live up to what we'd started to imagine among ourselves. I'd rather have a swarm of fan projects, each of them running in a different direction.
The only thing I think HLP has never bested is Jason Scott's spare, punchy writing.
-
What if Violition went around and did a Halo Space Sim?
Surely there must be a market for that?
-
What if Violition went around and did a Halo Space Sim?
Surely there must be a market for that?
The Halo IP is owned by Microsoft, and Volition works for THQ.
-
Question: I recently read an article, I think in reference to Tribes: Ascend or some other Free-to-play or low-cost game, that talked about how the gaming industry, due to the advent of social media, no longer revolves around who has the biggest marketing budget.
In my own circles, I've rallied a rather large amount of support and interest in Freespace 2 Open, simply by telling people it was a good game.
Due to social media, a favorite band of mine, Five Iron Frenzy, recently asked for $30,000 via kickstarter to make a new album. They received $200,000, and thus, do not need a record label, and are free to be creative.
Due to social media, good products market themselves. I believe many of Freespace 2's problems would not exist for Freespace 3 because of this.
Just my 2 cents.
-
Question: I recently read an article, I think in reference to Tribes: Ascend or some other Free-to-play or low-cost game, that talked about how the gaming industry, due to the advent of social media, no longer revolves around who has the biggest marketing budget.
In my own circles, I've rallied a rather large amount of support and interest in Freespace 2 Open, simply by telling people it was a good game.
Due to social media, a favorite band of mine, Five Iron Frenzy, recently asked for $30,000 via kickstarter to make a new album. They received $200,000, and thus, do not need a record label, and are free to be creative.
Due to social media, good products market themselves. I believe many of Freespace 2's problems would not exist for Freespace 3 because of this.
Just my 2 cents.
You still need to persuade Interplay to licence someone to make the game, also there still needs to be a demand for social media to work. paying £3-£6 for a game is very different to paying £30-£40.
-
Have anyone 'dared' the company holding the IP rights to do a 'survey of potential interest' by putting up a kickstarter project with the goal of what they think would be acceptable before they would bother with it? Given, ofc, that it was a 'true' sequel to the series, meaning it included all the 'jazz' that made the previous games so awesome, and weren't dumbed down in terms of squad control or ship customization (or ease of these), but rather texpanded on it?
With MP being touted all the time by big companies, I could imagine this part aspect of the series as well might having a 'positive' ring. Being moddable with a new FRED might be more problematic, though, although it is one of the reasons some games keep interest for long.
I realize kickstarter is normally used by small companies or indies, but I don't see the issue for a bigger company to use it as a 'probing area' to see if there is a market for a specific product.
-
Have anyone 'dared' the company holding the IP rights to do a 'survey of potential interest' by putting up a kickstarter project with the goal of what they think would be acceptable before they would bother with it? Given, ofc, that it was a 'true' sequel to the series, meaning it included all the 'jazz' that made the previous games so awesome, and weren't dumbed down in terms of squad control or ship customization (or ease of these), but rather texpanded on it?
With MP being touted all the time by big companies, I could imagine this part aspect of the series as well might having a 'positive' ring. Being moddable with a new FRED might be more problematic, though, although it is one of the reasons some games keep interest for long.
I realize kickstarter is normally used by small companies or indies, but I don't see the issue for a bigger company to use it as a 'probing area' to see if there is a market for a specific product.
from what we can work out Interplay, who is the stalling point here, just don't have the financial resources to commit to a decent case study without serious intent to follow up on it.
-
Interplay has money? I thought they were just one guy working out of his basement by now.
-
Interplay has money? I thought they were just one guy working out of his basement by now.
from a little research I did a few months ago I think they are worth about $3.5 million on the stock markets, so yes they officially have money / ability to raise money, just not enough to do anything in the serious gaming market
-
My personal wish for a FS3 lies in popularity (a bit) and engine (a lot), the advent of BP IMHO nullifies my wish for a canon story successor. I seem to have come to the conclusion that the Freespace engine is old and inefficient and that a new title would include far greater graphical capabilities plus whatever SCP can cook up. Is that true?
Hmm... That's rather loaded, I'll see if I can break it down: Is Freespace Open highly inefficient compared to modern games? Would FS3 outdo FSOpen in terms of raw power? Would FS3 necessarily be open source?
Yeah, at this point, I'd quite happily settle for any random high-quality space sim that follows the FS/Wing Commander vein.
The implications of which are that none exist? [/genuine]
-
Yeah, at this point, I'd quite happily settle for any random high-quality space sim that follows the FS/Wing Commander vein.
The implications of which are that none exist? [/genuine]
so far as I am aware there have not been a high quality commercial game since Y2K.
-
so far as I am aware there have not been a high quality commercial game since Y2K.
Yup, Starlancer (2000) was the last game that could be called a space sim in the sense that we understand it, even if it was a bit too dumbed down in some areas (capital ships were far too easy to destroy, for example).
There's also StarShatter: The Gathering Storm from 2006. It wasn't as user friendly as FreeSpace or Wing Commander, but it let you control capital ships. And it went open source in 2011. There's a lot of some great mods out there for it, even if graphics and controls could use some improvements.
There are the X series games, but since they are open-worlded and focus more on economy and what-not, I don't really consider them to be space sims.
-
as for non-fs games, I'm having some hope for the kickstarter project "Starlight", although they still have some funding to go before it will see light. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/732317316/starlight-inceptiontm)
I would still prefer a 'real' FS3, though :blah:
-
I just pledged for that one. (part of the reason being that pledging a certain amount buys you the game if it's made) If we want to see future Space Sims we probably should get behind this one. The project team sounds competent and it sounds like they understand the low cost business strategy. It would probably make a decent return if it manages to make it.
-
Yeah, $15 Isn't a bad deal for a game.
EDIT: pledged $16
-
I agree with other members of the forum in that I'd rather not see an official FS3 made. While it would be interesting and I'd definitely buy it, I think that having an official end of the story would kill the creativity of the modders. Right now we don't know how it ends, so we're free to dream up any number of mods to continue the story. Also, I like what's happening with the source code project, and I'd hate to see it become obsolete with the release of a new closed-source engine.
-
Wasn't there a fan-made alternative storyline to FS2 in the works? I'm not sure FS3 would be that much of a creativity killer. Especially if the Shivans turned out to be the tip of an iceberg. Then, you could still make your own FS2 sequels, plus FS4 and anything in-between. Adding creativity into the FS universe from a canon source shouldn't stifle creativity; it should spark more!
My thoughts, FWIW.
-
Wasn't there a fan-made alternative storyline to FS2 in the works? I'm not sure FS3 would be that much of a creativity killer. Especially if the Shivans turned out to be the tip of an iceberg. Then, you could still make your own FS2 sequels, plus FS4 and anything in-between. Adding creativity into the FS universe from a canon source shouldn't stifle creativity; it should spark more!
My thoughts, FWIW.
x10000
-
His thoughts don't include the extreme unlikelihood of us getting a FRED3.
-
Why wouldn't they include that? That would be like shooting off your toes. Have game makers recently stopped releasing the editing software for their games? I know some never did, but the ones that have in the past, have they stopped? Has Interplay or :v: somehow given us that message?
I don't see what makes it extremely unlikely. Maybe I missed the memo. Can someone pass it around so I can have a look-see? (I'm being serious: what's the reasoning behind that thought?)
-
Editors, particularly simplefuneasy editors like FRED, are a dead thing. Let's be honest: they were never that common, either. I think Skyrim might have one (if you can call it that; it's probably pretty crowded so I'm not sure "easy to use" is a good way to describe it). I would hard-pressed to name another game in the last five years which did.
FRED in itself was unique in the genre. Wing Commander didn't have a feature like this. X-Wing Alliance had a half-assed random mission generator.
Editors, particularly easy, usable editors, are not common. They never really were. Would we still have a modding community? Probably. Would we have such simple tools, so that pretty much anybody here can spend a couple hours and turn out a mission? Not likely. Would we be able to build campaigns like the one the game came with? Again, not likely.
Unless you expect an indie game team to waltz in and match or exceed the achievements of the SCP and original FS2 over the last...several decades, an editor like FRED is very unlikely. And if it's an indie game team, well, I don't think many of us will be very impressed with the end product anyways. It would be a real kick in the ass if FS3 came out and we ended up with something that doesn't compare favorably to Transcend or Homesick, much less WiH.
-
Basically what I'm saying is that we were uniquely lucky to get the first FRED. Because FS2 reused a fair deal of FS1's coding, FRED2 wasn't hard to make so they just sort of tossed it out there.
There's no reason to assume we'll be so lucky again. Most gaming companies want people to buy their extra content, not make extra content and trade it freely on their own.
-
Well, presumably :v: had to make FRED2 so they could make FS2. It's the same tool that their mission designers used, after all.
When it comes to bolstering the modding community, releasing FRED2 to the public was a much bigger deal than releasing the FS2 source code. Since FRED is the same tool used to make FS2, people can continue to make campaigns and tell new stories with it, using the engine in ways that :v: had never considered. If they had released only the source code of the engine and not FRED, though, what could we have done, other than things like adding cross-platform support, graphical enhancements, and the like? There would be no new campaigns. Imagine HLP without that. Most of the subforums here wouldn't exist.
EDIT: Yes, given the source code of the engine, we could probably make our own mission editor. But it would be a lot of work, and it wouldn't be the same.
-
Supply of mission editors is a fickle thing, the mid to late 90's was the "golden" era for them with many games shipping with some form of editing software, but usually there were limitations such as no way to tell a story in mission with the editor, or no support for non retail campaigns and it tended to be strategy and FPS that came with them, and usually it was some dumbed down tool, not the as used by the dev like we get with FRED.
-
I think the Source Engine has some pretty hefty modding tools associated with it, but that's Valve, so it's already something of a special case.
-
Valve is probably the company with the strongest community/3rd party ethic, i mean look at CS and DoD, they started out as any other mod and are now officially supported by Valve, you just don't see that anywhere else!
-
Valve is a pretty special, actually unique case in the video game industry. Hell, in the tech industry as a whole.
-
Well, presumably :v: had to make FRED2 so they could make FS2. It's the same tool that their mission designers used, after all.
That is what's puzzling me. I'm assuming game creators don't pull out Notepad, Photoshop, and a hex editor to code their games. They ofc use tools. So why is it any skin off of their teeth to release those tools? If they release extra content, well, people will buy it for the content. If they did more than a half-assed job at it, anyways. I guess that might explain the problem. :rolleyes: They are hoping that people will buy their extra content even though it's poorly written and shoddy, just because they liked the game and are trying to get more enjoyment out of it (or are trying to get their hard-earned money's worth out of it!) -- whereas, if there's free 3rd party content, maybe people will be a bit more reserved about spending their money on it. I propose they do an excellent job with their extra content, and then they'll get their money's worth and then some. :nono:
-
Well, presumably :v: had to make FRED2 so they could make FS2. It's the same tool that their mission designers used, after all.
That is what's puzzling me. I'm assuming game creators don't pull out Notepad, Photoshop, and a hex editor to code their games. They ofc use tools. So why is it any skin off of their teeth to release those tools? If they release extra content, well, people will buy it for the content. If they did more than a half-assed job at it, anyways. I guess that might explain the problem. :rolleyes: They are hoping that people will buy their extra content even though it's poorly written and shoddy, just because they liked the game and are trying to get more enjoyment out of it (or are trying to get their hard-earned money's worth out of it!) -- whereas, if there's free 3rd party content, maybe people will be a bit more reserved about spending their money on it. I propose they do an excellent job with their extra content, and then they'll get their money's worth and then some. :nono:
It's not quite this simple. Some tools used in modern game dev are extremely complex and integrated - for example, baking a level may require direct access to the entire animation pipeline, including all kinds of proprietary software, as well as a weekend's worth of time compiling **** on a special computer setup.
-
Yuck.
-
It used to be that simple, but it isn't now. FRED could get away with using a greatly simplified LISP. ArmAII uses a normal programming language (I don't remember which one) for it's missions events. No simple drop-down lists, neat-looking operator trees and simple syntaxes. And to make models that aren't props, you need to know yet another language (most likely LUA). BI released plenty of dev tools, but they're not exactly easy to use, not to mention there's a lot of them. For FS2, all you'll ever need are: AniView, VPView, PCS2, a text editor which can save as plain text, a modeling program that can save to .DAE and/or .COB and graphics program which can load and save PNG, PCX, DDS, TGA and JPG. Three specialized tools and three "generic" tools.
-
I would be very disappointed if FS3 hit shelves tomorrow. In fact, I'm pretty sure a large piece of my inner gamer would die.
Why? Imagine what something like that could do to the modding community. Imagine the endless debates among the coders, trying to decide between continuing FS2 open or moving to FS3 open. The FS3'ers would obviously want the enhanced features and graphics of the new game, but then again, what incentive would volition have of releasing FRED3 or any real modding tools for the game? In fact, with the present state of the gaming industry, I do not trust them to readily allow end users to generate their own content. Just look at how infrequently modern AAA titles launch with modding tools. This internal rift could fundamentally destroy the modding community as it exists today.
And then there is the issue of canon. What is canon in the post-capella era? Honestly, I like it better when this question is unanswered. People get creative when this happens - and they run fantastic what-if scenarios. Except here, those scenarios turn into campaigns.
In my opinion, Blue Planet was the greatest gaming experience I have ever had. Heck, I liked it more than most of my favorite movies and books. I do not believe it is theoretically possible for any developer or studio to turn out an FS3 that is as incredible as Blue Planet - not with the game industry and business itself existing in their present state. It had to come from within the modding community - it could not have been otherwise.
Basically, if FS3 came out, it would inevitably be less cool and awesome than Blue Planet. It probably would be less awesome than MOST of the post-capella campaigns out there. If Volition comes out and says "The official conclusion of the freespace storyline is far less awesome than the stuff dreamed up by the modding community", then it would truly suck. It would be a crippling blow not just to Freespace as a franchise, but for the very art of storytelling itself.
-
I would be very disappointed if FS3 hit shelves tomorrow. In fact, I'm pretty sure a large piece of my inner gamer would die.
Why? Imagine what something like that could do to the modding community. Imagine the endless debates among the coders, trying to decide between continuing FS2 open or moving to FS3 open.
Well, considering that it took 3 years for Volition to publish the FS2 source code, I doubt this would be a(n immediate) problem. Mod/campaign development, of course, is a different matter.
-
Well, considering that it took 3 years for Volition to publish the FS2 source code, I doubt this would be a(n immediate) problem. Mod/campaign development, of course, is a different matter.
Considering that I'm also developing a post-capella mod/campaign...FS3 coming out would be troubling in more ways than one. It would instantly break the immersion of any post-capella era storyline, knowing that volition canon contravenes it.
-
since when does canon bother this community, lets face it :v: canon contradicts itself nicely already what what's a few alternative scenarios to bother the average player
-
Virtually all canon contravenes itself eventually. :lol:
-
i bet just about everyone has their own personal version of canon they subscribe to. even if you don't realize it. there's some V inconsistencies or odd bits you discount as just an error in the game, and some assumptions you make that are never confirmed, or maybe not even discussed at all. i bet most of you replaced Silent Threat with ST:R. i know i did. you're always free to amend your own personal canon. like command and conquer 4. it never happened. the series ended with the scrin preparing a full invasion force cliffhanger. or the matrix. it's a great series. of one movie.
and no one is going to crucify you for daring to release a post-capella mod that disagrees with V canon. this happened to FS1 campaigns with the release of FS2, and they didn't suddenly become bad. look at Destiny of Peace. it started a new war with the vasudans, and is still considered in the top tier of campaigns. i'm sure there are others like that, but that's the only one i've played.
i guess my point is saying "they shouldn't make it even if they do get the chance, because i might not like it" seems a bit, well, selfish almost. it only impacts what we have already if we choose for it to. and if that happens, it will probably be because it's so great and we want to move over to it, not just the simple fact it exists.
-
i bet just about everyone has their own personal version of canon they subscribe to. even if you don't realize it. there's some V inconsistencies or odd bits you discount as just an error in the game, and some assumptions you make that are never confirmed, or maybe not even discussed at all. i bet most of you replaced Silent Threat with ST:R. i know i did. you're always free to amend your own personal canon. like command and conquer 4. it never happened. the series ended with the scrin preparing a full invasion force cliffhanger. or the matrix. it's a great series. of one movie.
and no one is going to crucify you for daring to release a post-capella mod that disagrees with V canon. this happened to FS1 campaigns with the release of FS2, and they didn't suddenly become bad. look at Destiny of Peace. it started a new war with the vasudans, and is still considered in the top tier of campaigns. i'm sure there are others like that, but that's the only one i've played.
i guess my point is saying "they shouldn't make it even if they do get the chance, because i might not like it" seems a bit, well, selfish almost. it only impacts what we have already if we choose for it to. and if that happens, it will probably be because it's so great and we want to move over to it, not just the simple fact it exists.
+10,000