[asyikarea51]

The first Hercules, by the way.

It struck me while I was playing around with the Zeus table, I never realised this ex-stealth bomber had things this bad, if I have a reason why I keep dying in bomb-heavy missions every now and then, apart from my crappy flying, there's some chance it's because of this...

But between the Zeus and the Hercules, if I bumped up the stats of the Zeus somewhat, would things then be unfair to the Hercules? Or would the Hercules' supposed natural advantage of a smaller body somehow help itself out (seeing as it's slower than the Zeus by 5m/s, has less countermeasures, I doubt the handling is any better, the afterburner is probably worse, and I can't even say gun energy because it has more guns to feed power to)?

Looking at the hull and shield hitpoints, and the total secondary capacity, IMO I don't think there's a lot I can change without throwing the Hercules off-balance, the secondaries are already equal, so...

Does anyone have ideas on how to, ummm... "up" a Zeus without being too unfair to the 'Big Momma' (which would be the case if I simply upped hull/shields/capacity)? Yes I know there's always FRED to block loadout options based on the scenario at hand, but still.

Or do I have no choice but to look at the bigger picture and mess with the stats of every ship, or don't even touch its stats at all, or just use FRED to restrict loadout options (assuming I even get anywhere near that stage of campaign development)?

[Scourge of Ages]

Well, they're not supposed to compete, becuase they're designed for different roles. If you want to improve the Zeus as a bomber, you could bump it's top speed or hit points to make for better bombing/survivability. If you want to make it a more competent dogfighter, boosting maneuverability, afterburner effect, or decreasing it's mass (for better acceleration) would be the way to go.

Remember, you don't take a knife to a gunfight, and you don't take a bomber to a dogfight mission or a fighter to a bomb mission. It's slow and clunky so you specifically aren't tempted to take it to a dogfight. Even though the secondary capacity might be similar, allowed secondaries are not. If a Herc could carry bombs there would be literally almost no reason to ever take anything else ever; assuming pre-FS2 scenarios.

What are you trying to make it better at?

[Shivan Hunter]

The first Hercules, by the way.

It struck me while I was playing around with the Zeus table, I never realised this ex-stealth bomber had things this bad, if I have a reason why I keep dying in bomb-heavy missions every now and then, apart from my crappy flying, there's some chance it's because of this...

Zeus was never a stealth bomber. You're thinking of the Loki. EDIT: Just read the Wiki. Got proved wrong.

Do you mean you keep dying as a Herc or as a Zeus?

But between the Zeus and the Hercules, if I bumped up the stats of the Zeus somewhat, would things then be unfair to the Hercules? Or would the Hercules' supposed natural advantage of a smaller body somehow help itself out (seeing as it's slower than the Zeus by 5m/s, has less countermeasures, I doubt the handling is any better, the afterburner is probably worse, and I can't even say gun energy because it has more guns to feed power to)?

Looking at the hull and shield hitpoints, and the total secondary capacity, IMO I don't think there's a lot I can change without throwing the Hercules off-balance, the secondaries are already equal, so...

From what you said, it seems like they're practically equal, which doesn't really make that much sense, considering that the Zeus is a bomber. It was also deployed long after the Herc. By all rationale, it should be a bit stronger, maybe a bit slower then the Herc. It's really up to you- whatever makes the most sense for mission balance.

Does anyone have ideas on how to, ummm... "up" a Zeus without being too unfair to the 'Big Momma' (which would be the case if I simply upped hull/shields/capacity)? Yes I know there's always FRED to block loadout options based on the scenario at hand, but still.

Or do I have no choice but to look at the bigger picture and mess with the stats of every ship, or don't even touch its stats at all, or just use FRED to restrict loadout options (assuming I even get anywhere near that stage of campaign development)?

Play Procyon Insurgency. For one thing, it's a great campaign. For another... look at the missions and tables. They mess with retail values all the time, and it's rarely ever noticeable. You'd be fine giving the Zeus a few more shields, maybe some extra secondary capacity, and most players probably wouldn't even notice. You probably shouldn't mess with its speed, though- that's a bit too obvious.

If you need to change too much, just make some comment in the briefing that you'll be flying a slightly upgraded Zeus because it's an old Great War design, or (depending on the timeframe) you have access to some leet new tech for stronger armor or engines or whatever.

Also, keep in mind the roles these craft will be playing, not only in general but in your campaign. What role do Hercs play against Zeus bombers? They usually shouldn't be flying intercept- that should be left to the Perseus/Myrm or Valk/Apollo, depending on the timeframe.

[asyikarea51]

Hey thanks for the suggestion banter. Something for me to think about...

What are you trying to make it better at?

If I'm honest, I don't have a specific goal since I don't have any campaign ideas in my mind at the moment (I actually lost the idea that I kept in my head for over a year now and now I'm regretting it), still experimenting with things, really I just intended to make it better in a very general way because I did not expect the Zeus to have things this bad. Maybe improve the dog fighting since that's all the default one has going for it, allow Kaysers on it maybe, or up the bomb capacity for 3 bombs a slot instead of 2 (haven't really tested to check, no quick-test bomber missions made in FRED yet).

Do you mean you keep dying as a Herc or as a Zeus?

As a Zeus. It's the only bomber I'm willing to take up aside the Ursa (I tend to favour FS1 designs a lot, I guess that mindset got to me over the years or something, I really have no idea, heck, I didn't even notice the poor bomb capacity, I just flew).

It was also deployed long after the Herc. By all rationale (snip)

I was thinking that, if there's a so-called "valid reason" for it to be better than the Herc, I have one there...